The Last Jedi [Here Be Potential Spoilers]

Primus

Valar Morghulis
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#81
Yeah, by the end of ROtJ he had been a Jedi for how long? Couple of months? Seems weird an old Luke would stay the same. Old people always change.
The question is WHY did he change? Narratively, characterization change is only good when it is believable and justified. Something has to affect the character and assault their core beliefs in such a way that their perspective is flipped upside down. This guy basically helped rally the rebellion to victory and set out to convert his father based on a hunch, so this is his baseline going forward. The events of the OT make it incredibly stupid and out of character for him to want to kill Ben for essentially merely thinking of the darkside, not try to redeem or battle him to correct his mistake once he does turn, and leave his family and friends to die against The New Order. Previously his guy redeemed space Hitler and jumped headfirst into certain death to save his friends, and despite extreme strife was ultimately successful. Ben showing signs of temptation towards the darkside, something every padawan including Luke himself feels, isn't the event that should shake these core characteristics for Luke because he has overcome much, much worse. His arc in TLJ just kind of disregards how he evolved in the first set of films.

It's really akin to how shitty Anakin's turn was handled in RoTS. He basically murders everyone he knows and owes his life to because he thinks Padme may die, and because he couldn't pass his Jedi exams as fast as he wanted to. It is really unsatisfying to see this type of characterization for Luke.

Just my two cents.
 
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muddi900

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#86
The recommendations are based on what you watch. I had never watched any Disney movies before this, because I either saw them in theaters or wasn't interested.

This was the centerpiece of their coming next month video for June.

I have actually been going through the negative reactions and it seems to me that the 'fans' just discovered that either Star Wars was always terrible, or that they don't really like Star Wars, except the 2 and a half movies and some really boring novels from the 90s
 

Dav Slinker

Oh, and hey, by the way
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#87
The recommendations are based on what you watch. I had never watched any Disney movies before this, because I either saw them in theaters or wasn't interested.

This was the centerpiece of their coming next month video for June.

I have actually been going through the negative reactions and it seems to me that the 'fans' just discovered that either Star Wars was always terrible, or that they don't really like Star Wars, except the 2 and a half movies and some really boring novels from the 90s
On this we're in agreement. I've said a number of times, "I love a well-crafted story but that has nothing to do with why I go see Star Wars."
 

muddi900

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#88
I have been a third of the way through Heir to the Empire for 6 months. It would have been an entertaining book were it not for the fact that it had to explain the problems with Lucas' writing.

I know I have been nothing but snarky here, but I genuinely find it fascinating as to what fans want. This type of bitter obnoxiousness have been common in nerd culture for decades, but you find the biggest Trekkies/Comic Book dorks/Whovians and they will tell you why they are angry/perturbed/just impartial. Something changed.

Nothing has changed about Star Wars. Laborious pacing, hammy acting and cynical 'toyetic' character designs. It's all there.
 

Primus

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#89
I'd really disagree with that. The first 3 films were Lucas with a bunch of good ideas being heavily reigned in and edited. The prequels were Lucas unfiltered, and these new ones don't have good characterization or the creative energy of the previous 6 because Lucas is out of the equation entirely.

I could write a thesis on how fucking bad these first sequel films are by comparison to the OT if you want.
 

muddi900

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#91
I'd really disagree with that. The first 3 films were Lucas with a bunch of good ideas being heavily reigned in and edited. The prequels were Lucas unfiltered, and these new ones don't have good characterization or the creative energy of the previous 6 because Lucas is out of the equation entirely.

I could write a thesis on how fucking bad these first sequel films are by comparison to the OT if you want.
You can, but you would be wrong.
 

Primus

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#92
I know I certainly don't have the passionate hate required to read and refute an actual essay, I'm more apt to shrug. I won't speak for Muddi, though.
I was answering his gross generalization with hyperbole. Fuck I even gave him what he asked for and he simply ignored it. Plenty of people have pointed out exactly why these films are weaker.
 

JayK47

Colonist
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#93
I watched this for the first time on Netflix as well. Wondering why episode 7 is not on there. I thought the movie was boring for a Star Wars movie. It brought out the ugly in the fan base and makes me glad I am not a fan. They have killed off all of the interesting characters, so I am not quite sure I even care what they do going forward.
 

muddi900

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#94
I was answering his gross generalization with hyperbole. Fuck I even gave him what he asked for and he simply ignored it. Plenty of people have pointed out exactly why these films are weaker.
Plenty of people of eat their own boogers.

I watched this for the first time on Netflix as well. Wondering why episode 7 is not on there. I thought the movie was boring for a Star Wars movie. It brought out the ugly in the fan base and makes me glad I am not a fan. They have killed off all of the interesting characters, so I am not quite sure I even care what they do going forward.
Disney has a rolling exclusive deal with Netflix; they get all the Marvel/Pixar/Lucas movies for a limited time 6-8 months after release, for a limited time.
 

muddi900

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#97
No I was saying "lots of people are saying it" is a tactic used by tabloid journalists, American Presidents, and all around intellectually bankrupt.
 
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Late to the thread, and I am in the minority apparently, but I honestly really enjoyed this film. The entire film is essentially an allegory for its own pop culture legacy and fanbase, and I really dig that. The movie is definitely uneven and suffers from typical Star Wars issues (e.g. cringe dialog and poor pacing), but it is also the first SW to do something interesting and daring with its own mythos in a long time. I would not consider myself a hardcore Star Wars fan, but I do enjoy the franchise, and this is the first SW film in a long time that not only made me want to see it twice in the theaters, but felt rewarding in doing so; seriously, I found myself enjoying this a lot more in the second viewing.
 
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