Lost (5.13) - April 15, 2009

[Siraris]

I think people are caring less and less about Lost on this site. We didn't even have a topic this week!

Suspicions about a possible breach intensify after Ben is taken from the infirmary, and a reluctant Miles is forced to work with Hurley when he's asked to deliver an important package to a top Dharma official.

Since it already aired, I will post my thoughts in a post after this.

[rein]

Lost? I thought I was watching Heroes.

[Siraris]

I thought tonight was a really fun episode, even though there wasn't a huge megaton (I had a good feeling Dan would be back soon). You could argue that finding out Mr. Candle/Chang was Miles' father was a megaton, but I guessed that a longggg time ago. The hilarity that took place between Miles and Hurley, though, made the show totally worth it. I also enjoyed the flashback quite a bit, especially the van scene. I really have no clue who the hell those people are who kidnapped Miles, because I'm thinking they aren't with Ben, and they aren't with Widmore. I guess it's possible they are with Ben, but I doubt it. You know what I just realized, though? That guy Bram was on the island, with the chick with the curly hair. He was standing there by the giant metallic box when Lepdis was knocked out. Hmmmm

Too bad no new episode next week, but the week after should be quite revealing.

[Voodoo]

I'm watching the episode right now. The writing for Lost has improved considerably.

[DoctorFinger]

The show just shines when Hurley and Miles are on screen.

[Wraith]

So I guess Time Paradoxes are not an issue in the world of Lost, huh (current-timeline Miles seeing baby Miles).

[Voodoo]

Wow, Dan showing up at the end rocked. So, what's the deal with the special next week? Do you suppose it might be Vincent's perspective episode finally?

Wraith, they already talked about the flow of time in the series. Basically, anything is game now and what they are doing in the past is directly effecting what is happening in the future. This also means that they do have the ability to change how things play out.

Dan had once said What Has Happened, Happened but Hurley already showed that this isn't the case.

[Arphahat]

Originally Posted by Voodoo

Wow, Dan showing up at the end rocked. So, what's the deal with the special next week? Do you suppose it might be Vincent's perspective episode finally?

Wraith, they already talked about the flow of time in the series. Basically, anything is game now and what they are doing in the past is directly effecting what is happening in the future. This also means that they do have the ability to change how things play out.

Dan had once said What Has Happened, Happened but Hurley already showed that this isn't the case.

Actually, Hurley only brought up a point that was then addressed later on in the episode. The argument was that Ben would remember Sayid as being the man who shot him as a kid later when Sayid was torturing him for information. However, when Richard took Ben, he said he would forget how it happened, thus forgetting about Sayid.

So, whatever happened in the past still cannot be changed, at least as far as we can determine from what has been said.

[Voodoo]

Originally Posted by Arphahat

Actually, Hurley only brought up a point that was then addressed later on in the episode. The argument was that Ben would remember Sayid as being the man who shot him as a kid later when Sayid was torturing him for information. However, when Richard took Ben, he said he would forget how it happened, thus forgetting about Sayid.

So, whatever happened in the past still cannot be changed, at least as far as we can determine from what has been said.

Damn it! You're absolutely correct. I forgot what Richard had said. Thanks Arphahat.

[DoctorFinger]

Damn. It looks like that clip show next week counts as an episode. Probably because the 2 hour season finale counts as two.

[Arphahat]

Originally Posted by Voodoo

Damn it! You're absolutely correct. I forgot what Richard had said. Thanks Arphahat.

No problem. Enough things happen in the show that it is easy to lose track of details. Although, as sad as I am that the show will end, I am happy that they have the end in sight since it allows for the entire show to clean up the old questions and be thoughtful in introducing new issues, knowing it is not open-ended.

Regarding tonight's episode, Hurley was cracking me up. Chatting up Miles' dad: "Hey, what a small world! Your name is Miles to, isn't it, Miles?" And discussing talking to the dead: "You're just jealous that my power is better than yours." I liked how even Chang seemed to be amused.

[Wraith]

IIRC, in that episode (Miles and Hurley's time travel debate), Miles was suggesting that actions they take now, while they could affect the future, they can't affect their past, which has already happened. i.e. Sayid shooting Ben now doesn't necessarily mean that current-timeline Ben was shot by Sayid in his past. Which makes sense in the context of a branching timeline.

But then the thing with Richard means we don't really know for sure whether this is true or not. (Maybe current Ben "forgot", maybe it never happened to current Ben.)

[Arphahat]

Originally Posted by Wraith

IIRC, in that episode (Miles and Hurley's time travel debate), Miles was suggesting that actions they take now, while they could affect the future, they can't affect their past, which has already happened. i.e. Sayid shooting Ben now doesn't necessarily mean that current-timeline Ben was shot by Sayid in his past. Which makes sense in the context of a branching timeline.

But then the thing with Richard means we don't really know for sure whether this is true or not. (Maybe current Ben "forgot", maybe it never happened to current Ben.)

I took it to mean that current Ben was the dick he is because Kate and Sawyer saved him by taking him to Richard. Remember Richard talking about him being forever changed and losing his innocence? Essentially, if Jack had saved him, he would not have become what he became.

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by Arphahat

I took it to mean that current Ben was the dick he is because Kate and Sawyer saved him by taking him to Richard. Remember Richard talking about him being forever changed and losing his innocence? Essentially, if Jack had saved him, he would not have become what he became.

I guess the other thing that suggests that we're still on a non-branching timeline is that Ben, Locke, Sun, etc. are still in the "present", and we assume that the characters in the "past" will eventually be returned there. We don't expect that all the actions that characters are taking in the 70s are changing things in the present. Or at least we don't see that reflected by what's happening with Ben, Locke and Sun. So it's not really branching, just looping back on itself - everything happening now already happened.

[Arphahat]

Originally Posted by Wraith

I guess the other thing that suggests that we're still on a non-branching timeline is that Ben, Locke, Sun, etc. are still in the "present", and we assume that the characters in the "past" will eventually be returned there. We don't expect that all the actions that characters are taking in the 70s are changing things in the present. Or at least we don't see that reflected by what's happening with Ben, Locke and Sun. So it's not really branching, just looping back on itself - everything happening now already happened.

I agree that this is all we can tell is happening right now. Whether the future/present is being altered, we cannot yet see. I wonder if the season finale's final shocker will be that they have been changing all kinds of stuff in the future.

Like, maybe Hurley will be credited with writing a version of Empire Strikes Back that has Luke and Vadar discussing their differences over tea.

[TheKeck]

Originally Posted by Wraith

So I guess Time Paradoxes are not an issue in the world of Lost, huh (current-timeline Miles seeing baby Miles).

How is this a paradox? Now if he KILLED baby Miles...

[digitalErich]

Yeah, no big reveals, but the question of who the anti-Widmore van team was and the return of Faraday were really fun.

[boratika]

I think this episode easily had the best dialogue of any episode so far. The Miles-Hurley pairing is pure genius.

Originally Posted by Siraris

I also enjoyed the flashback quite a bit, especially the van scene. I really have no clue who the hell those people are who kidnapped Miles, because I'm thinking they aren't with Ben, and they aren't with Widmore. I guess it's possible they are with Ben, but I doubt it.

So I guess we know why Miles asked Ben for $3.2 million. Not 3.1 or 3.3. Well somewhat at least. I'm assuming Miles figured the statue-shadow faction were aligned with Ben if they were against Widmore. Though it seemed like maybe 1.6 million was significant for some reason. Could just be because 16 is one of the numbers.

Originally Posted by Siraris

You know what I just realized, though? That guy Bram was on the island, with the chick with the curly hair. He was standing there by the giant metallic box when Lepdis was knocked out. Hmmmm.

Ah, nice catch. Completely slipped by me. Attention span of more than an hour? This show asks a lot from its audience.

[Sandman]

Is it just me or did they advertise a moment where Sawyer knocks Miles out and not have it in the show or did I miss that?

Hurley re-writing Empire Strikes Back was hilarious.

[axion]

Great episode overall, loved the Hurley/Miles dialogue, him writing Star Wars had me cracking up. Definitely interesting that there is now a third player in the game with the "what lies in the shadow of the statue" group, which I had initially associated with Widmore after last week, but now seem to be some other faction.