Illinois: Pluto is a planet again.

[Johan]

Originally Posted by Ox

...and I'm the one who's going to hell.

Are you married, too?

Man...there's a lot of that going around.

Originally Posted by Ox

A powerful refutation.

You are hilariously pretentious and obfuscatory. Now, that's meant as a compliment, not an insult (I'm stretching a bit there, but I'm trying), and merely picks up on what used to be your username, so please don't take offense, or I'm sure I'll be verbally bent over and abused with a hot linguistic prong or two.

[Bone]

Originally Posted by Ox

A powerful refutation. Truly, I have not been so rebuked since the last time Schnoogs got annoyed with me.

I was on my iPhone. For all your intelligence, you could stand to release the tight muscular control of your sphincter which prevents you from seeing the world in a humorous light.

Originally Posted by Ox

No. You keep saying that this move was in spite of the available science, but you haven't presented any argument that it's in spite of the available science (except to assert, without support or argument, that recognizing Pluto as a planet would necessitate recognizing other objects as planets, too).

Really, I guess I didn't come to the courthouse with all the recent and relevant facts as agreed on by the scientific community. Oh wait, that's because this is a gaming forum and not a trial. I don't feel the need to do the research that you yourself could do to enlighten yourself on what constitutes a planet today. Even Wikipedia makes a decent outline and quick read; I do read more about the subject than Wikipedia presents, but that's just me. I'm interested in what science has to add to the expanding body of facts.

Originally Posted by Ox

Having bothered to read the resolution, I see no claim that the Illinois legislature is operating "in the name of science." Nor, for that matter, have they invoked the power of Grayskull.

They did bother to invoke the name of the scientist from Illinois who discovered the dwarf planet in question. That leans more towards science than Grayskull, I think.

Originally Posted by Ox

I believe astronomers have more scientific knowledge than I do. But before I care about that, you first have to persuade me that scientific knowledge is relevant to this discussion. You're arguing in circles, now.

Because I don't think a state gets to redefine what more intelligent people have deemed a dwarf planet, I find it very relevant.

Originally Posted by Ox

Actually, most terms have multiple definitions depending on the context. The purpose of a word is to convey meaning, and obviously the intended meaning of a word can change depending on the speaker's identity or the circumstances. "Malice" in ordinary conversation is different from "malice" in a legal context, for example. Is one right and the other wrong? No: the word is just a collection of sounds and shapes, not something with intrinsic truth value.

Really, so the two forms of "malice" were formed in a vacuum? Absurd. The legal term is an extension of the definition of the word malice. It's not like "malice" in a courtroom means you have a penchant for unicorns.

By definition:
Malice
1. A desire to harm others or to see others suffer; extreme ill will or spite.
2. (Law) The intent, without just cause or reason, to commit a wrongful act that will result in harm to another.

Since you know the law far better than I do, I'd be interested to hear more legal terms that veer sharply away from their dictionary definition, rather than enhancing the original meaning with more specific legal terms.

Originally Posted by Ox

Astronomers might use "planet" to refer to eight objects in the Solar System. A poet would use the term to refer to many more objects. The Illinois legislature uses it to refer to nine objects. All of them are correct, because all of them are using those sounds and shapes to convey their intended meanings. If ditch diggers start using "planet" to refer to a particularly sizeable crap, then that's what "planet" will mean.

A poet can use "planets" as he sees fit; it doesn't mean he knows what the fuck they are. He's writing something with abstract artistic value; maybe he calls his hemorrhoids "planets" in iambic pentameter, it doesn't make them so. I do hope state laws aren't trying to achieve abstract artistic value, but I am beginning to believe otherwise.

Your earlier argument that planets were defined by the Greeks is informative. Astrology, mythology, and astronomy together led to the definitions of what we called planets at the time. As information replaced superstition, the meaning of a planet was refined over time. I am all for the continued discovery of facts that allow us to classify these planets and understand our solar system.

[Johan]

Originally Posted by Bone

...maybe he calls his hemorrhoids "planets" in iambic pentameter...

I think this could well be my next creative writing assignment!

No...I need my job. Damn.

[Ox]

Originally Posted by Bone

I was on my iPhone. For all your intelligence, you could stand to release the tight muscular control of your sphincter which prevents you from seeing the world in a humorous light.

Actually, I like a good laugh. I just usually reserve my laughter for when someone says something amusing. And FYI, while you might think it's funny to repeatedly take this abstract issue and use it as an excuse to utter a series of insults, you shouldn't necessarily be shocked if I find it less humorous than you do.

Really, I guess I didn't come to the courthouse with all the recent and relevant facts as agreed on by the scientific community. Oh wait, that's because this is a gaming forum and not a trial. I don't feel the need to do the research that you yourself could do to enlighten yourself on what constitutes a planet today. Even Wikipedia makes a decent outline and quick read; I do read more about the subject than Wikipedia presents, but that's just me. I'm interested in what science has to add to the expanding body of facts.

Translation: "I don't have a good response, so instead I'll call you ignorant and lazy."

Really, so the two forms of "malice" were formed in a vacuum? Absurd. The legal term is an extension of the definition of the word malice. It's not like "malice" in a courtroom means you have a penchant for unicorns.

By definition:
Malice
1. A desire to harm others or to see others suffer; extreme ill will or spite.
2. (Law) The intent, without just cause or reason, to commit a wrongful act that will result in harm to another.

That's a pretty limited and misleading definition of legal malice. The term actually means different things in different fields of law. For example, it can mean "reckless disregard for the truth" in one context, or "the intent to commit a felony" in another; or "a wrongful act without provocation" in still another. If I catch you in bed with my (fictitious) wife, fly into a rage, and stab you 47 times in the eyeball, most laymen would probably agree it was malicious (it certainly seems I desired to see you injured and was motivated by extreme ill will). A lawyer, however, would not. A lawyer would think that publishing a newspaper article claiming a woman was 25 when in fact she was 35 would be an example of malice, though. If this doesn't count as a radically different interpretation of "malice" from the lay definition, I think we must travel in different crowds.

Your earlier argument that planets were defined by the Greeks is informative. Astrology, mythology, and astronomy together led to the definitions of what we called planets at the time. As information replaced superstition, the meaning of a planet was refined over time. I am all for the continued discovery of facts that allow us to classify these planets and understand our solar system.

Okay, do you not understand the issue or are you just being pompous and ignoring the issue for the purposes of humor? Because although it's silly, it's not actually funny.

In case you really don't understand the issue, let me phrase it as simply as possible. You say we've discovered "facts that allow us to classify these planets." What facts are those?

[Johan]

You're not that different from me, Ox. You just dress it up better.

[Bone]

Ox, if your previous posts to me were not insulting and pompous, then I retract my apparently insulting and pompous comments. But don't insult my intelligence throughout your posts and then tell me I'm the one throwing insults, please. I'm taking my leave now.

[Ox]

Unless disagreeing with you constitutes insulting your intelligence, I don't believe I've insulted your intelligence anywhere in this thread. But if you think you were only "apparently" insulting, then perhaps I should have been more derogatory.

[Wasson_]

guys...please. just look at yourselves...

[Generation ABXY]

Originally Posted by Wasson_

guys...please. just look at yourselves...

Given the pomposity and seriousness of some of those comments, I'm sure they do. Everyday. Standing butt naked and covered in oil in front of a full-body mirror while doing Sudoku puzzles behind their backs, they no doubt curse the gods for only making one of them, for what else but something just as perfect could surely be worthy of copulating with such a pinnacle of human existence?

...

Either that, or they just really need a hobby, because that is an incredible amount of back and forth on something so seemingly arbitrary. I hear video games are popular around here.

[Johan]

Originally Posted by Wasson_

guys...please. just look at yourselves...

I gave up trying to inject some levity. When you have me trying to stop you from arguing, you're probably dealing with an Event Horizon.