It's about time: Gitmo shutting down.

[diablopath]

CNN has a headline up that President Obama has issued four executive orders.
The main one ordering Guantanamo Bay be shut down within one year.
I'm really happy to see this happen.

EDIT:

...one requiring that the U.S. military detention facility at Guantanamo Bay be closed within a year.
A second executive order formally bans torture by requiring that the Army field manual be used as the guide for terror interrogations. The order essentially ends the Bush administration's CIA program of enhanced interrogation methods.

A third executive order establishes an interagency task force to lead a systematic review of detention policies and procedures and a review of all individual cases.

A fourth executive order delays the trial of Ali al-Marri, a legal U.S. resident who has been contesting his detention for more than five years as an enemy combatant in a military brig without the government bringing any charges against him.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/...der/index.html

[astranoir]

This makes me so happy, and encourages me to continue being hopeful that Obama will fulfill his promises.

[roboninja]

Nice seeing how quickly the cleanup has started. There is just so much of it

[National Kato]

This will be very healthy for our country and for the world. A definite step in the right direction.

[fitbabits]

It needed to happen, for many reasons, and I'm glad Obama is sticking to one of his major campaign promises. Oh, and he's also meeting with the commanders of the armed forces, etc. to discuss a responsible withdrawal from Iraq.

[Iron Past]

Ah yes. Nice to see that the people that are doing their best to kill us will now have the same constitutional protection and rights as American citizens. Don't get me wrong, many of these 'emergency powers,' if not all, are beyond the time when they're needed, and there should be a review of 'interogation' methods, but there was a reason Gitmo exists.

Originally Posted by fitbabits

It needed to happen, for many reasons, and I'm glad Obama is sticking to one of his major campaign promises. Oh, and he's also meeting with the commanders of the armed forces, etc. to discuss a responsible withdrawal from Iraq.

I quickly need to address this, withdraw started months and months ago. Both the bases I was at were shut down around the middle of last year, and one was a pretty major base. Troops numbers were announced to go down around September, I think, and the Marines at least are not allowed to activate any inactive reservists now. But if all the credit goes to Obama, whatever.

[Mike Kelehan]

Okay, so, we're closing Guantanamo Bay, we're slowly getting out of Iraq over the next year and a half, and now torture is illegal? He's definitely a secret Muslim. No real American would act this way.

I'm totally making plum happen.

[Wolvie]

Next up on the chopping block? The patriot act!

[diablopath]

Originally Posted by Iron Past

Ah yes. Nice to see that the people that are doing their best to kill us will now have the same constitutional protection and rights as American citizens. Don't get me wrong, many of these 'emergency powers,' if not all, are beyond the time when they're needed, and there should be a review of 'interogation' methods, but there was a reason Gitmo exists.

To bypass the law with unjust interrogations?
Gotcha.

[fitbabits]

Originally Posted by Iron Past

Ah yes. Nice to see that the people that are doing their best to kill us will now have the same constitutional protection and rights as American citizens. Don't get me wrong, many of these 'emergency powers,' if not all, are beyond the time when they're needed, and there should be a review of 'interogation' methods, but there was a reason Gitmo exists.

If there's a legitimate and/or legal reason for Gitmo existing, I've yet to hear it.

[roboninja]

Originally Posted by Iron Past

Ah yes. Nice to see that the people that are doing their best to kill us will now have the same constitutional protection and rights as American citizens. Don't get me wrong, many of these 'emergency powers,' if not all, are beyond the time when they're needed, and there should be a review of 'interogation' methods, but there was a reason Gitmo exists.

If all that were detained there were actual "terrorists", I would agree. But how would we know? They had no trial, no one had to prove anything. That is the problem.

Plus, the whole torture thing is indefensible to me. It is proven to be one of the worst interrogation measures, and makes the supposedly right side of the conflict no better than that which they fight. It is lose-lose.

[Iron Past]

Originally Posted by diablopath

To bypass the law with unjust interrogations?
Gotcha.

Did you not see that part where I said that was a bad thing?

Originally Posted by fitbabits

If there's a legitimate and/or legal reason for Gitmo existing, I've yet to hear it.

It's so that prisoners are not held on American soil, because if they are, they are protected by the Constitution. Has this been abused? Yes. Do I want my tax dollars paying for lawyers to defend captured terrorists? No. Are there other places like this that exist but are not known to the public? Almost definately.

Originally Posted by roboninja

Plus, the whole torture thing is indefensible to me. It is proven to be one of the worst interrogation measures, and makes the supposedly right side of the conflict no better than that which they fight. It is lose-lose.

No, no, I know it's bad. It's also a prime source for false information, and interogators know that. But people sent to Gitmo weren't sent all wily-nily.

[Voodoo]

Originally Posted by roboninja

Nice seeing how quickly the cleanup has started. There is just so much of it

With the proper application of force and a good plan, it can be accomplished. I have no doubts, based on just these four executive orders, that it will be and without waivering.

[National Kato]

Originally Posted by Iron Past

Ah yes. Nice to see that the people that are doing their best to kill us will now have the same constitutional protection and rights as American citizens..

Go rent The Road to Guantanamo, about the Tipton Three, and then come back here and tell me how they were going to kill Americans and why they should've been imprisoned without formal charges for two years.

And this story is one of the lesser examples.

[fitbabits]

Originally Posted by Iron Past

It's so that prisoners are not held on American soil, because if they are, they are protected by the Constitution. Has this been abused? Yes. Do I want my tax dollars paying for lawyers to defend captured terrorists? No. Are there other places like this that exist but are not known to the public? Almost definately.

So it exists to circumnavigate American laws? Is that really what you want from your government? Not to mention the torturing, etc.

[National Kato]

Originally Posted by Iron Past

But people sent to Gitmo weren't sent all wily-nily.

There's a lot of info out there contradicting this if you really want to examine it, Iron. But you have to want to.

[raymeswh]

So what happens with all of the prisoners there now? Do they get shipped to other prisons in the US for trial? I have a hard time believing most of them would last in a normal prison.

[Iron Past]

Originally Posted by fitbabits

So it exists to circumnavigate American laws? Is that really what you want from your government? Not to mention the torturing, etc.

Being perfectly honest, in extreme situations, yes. There are still other ways this will happen, and I can garauntee that Obama knows about them, but Gitmo was a press point.

I'm also tired of people glossing over what I have already said is right and wrong. Gitmo has been abused and could use some restructuring, but shutting the entire base down is just a PR move.

Originally Posted by National Kato

There's a lot of info out there contradicting this if you really want to examine it, Iron. But you have to want to.

I'll concede that point. But seriously, I don't have too much sympathy for a group who traveled to a known hotspot to see what was going on and then traveled with a group terrorist fighters. Though, yes, they were treated badly and stupidly.

[Mike Kelehan]

Originally Posted by Iron Past

It's so that prisoners are not held on American soil, because if they are, they are protected by the Constitution. Has this been abused? Yes. Do I want my tax dollars paying for lawyers to defend captured terrorists? No. Are there other places like this that exist but are not known to the public? Almost definately.


No, no, I know it's bad. It's also a prime source for false information, and interogators know that. But people sent to Gitmo weren't sent all wily-nily.

I'm saying this in all seriousness: I want my tax dollars to go towards lawyers defending suspected terrorists. Innocent until proven guilty is the single most important part of our justice system. Locking people up for indefinite periods of time without legal trials is the definition of willy-nilly to me.

[BlackPete]

Originally Posted by Iron Past

It's so that prisoners are not held on American soil, because if they are, they are protected by the Constitution. Has this been abused? Yes.

I'll just let that quote hang there....

Do I want my tax dollars paying for lawyers to defend captured allegedterrorists? No.

I added the bolded word. Now you see the problem, yet? Otherwise, we're back to a Judge Dredd style wild west system.

Are there other places like this that exist but are not known to the public? Almost definately.

If I kidnap someone, it's illegal. If I kidnap more people that are unknown to the public, does that mean my first kidnap is no longer illegal?

No, no, I know it's bad. It's also a prime source for false information, and interogators know that. But people sent to Gitmo weren't sent all wily-nily.

No, but if someone there was innocent, they have NO WAY to prove it. Therein lies the problem.