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Old 04-03-2012, 03:27 PM   #61
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:29 PM   #62
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Just read the article that came from:
http://www.esquire.com/features/youn...recession-0412
makes me sick.
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:39 PM   #63
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I guess I'm kind of numb to this, growing up in Michigan where Boomers in the auto-unions have been dicking over gen X and Y (and now the millennials) for decades. Sure it's a bit disheartening, but taken as the general trend/highest level it's hard to get angry about it. I mean, there was no intended malice in any of this, it's just how things worked out.

That all being said, now that these kinds of trends have been getting more clarity and metrics around them over the past few years, I'm not sure Boomers have any excuse but selfishness to continue with some of these practices.
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Old 04-03-2012, 04:43 PM   #64
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Guys, I think much of the issue with the numbers is simply an artefact of the increased level of college education. Going to college is usually good for your lifetime income (yes, even now), but in the short run it has two effects: you borrow money to pay for it and you don't earn money by working when you're enrolled.

Why do I think higher college attendance can explain the decline in net worth for young people? Because in 1980, 49% of high school graduates immediately went to college; now, 70% do. When the proportion of 18-22 year olds who are earning more than they spend falls by three-fifths, you should expect the average net worth of that cohort to fall dramatically. College does eventually make you better off, but it takes a couple of decades for the effect to outweigh the opportunity cost and expense.

Ultimately, this infographic is not indicative of any great crisis in American society or any generation screwing any other generation. Those things might be happening, but this chart doesn't add much to that discussion.
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Old 04-03-2012, 04:51 PM   #65
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Yeah, I agree with what you are saying re: increases in college attendance. The kind of screwing-over I was talking about was the increasingly (I've even seen this in my relatively short adult life) crappy pay, treatment, and benefits young professionals have to endure, in certain industries.

Screwing-over is probably the wrong phase as, like I stated above, I don't think this is driven by any kind of malice. I do think it could prove detrimental in the long term, though.
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Old 04-03-2012, 04:59 PM   #66
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While I fundamentally agree with what you're saying Ox, the unemployment plays directly into this. We have a large number of people entering the workplace who are unable to secure their expected incomes and are having to continuously defer their debts. Also this is under 35, and clearly both the mortgage crisis and the subsequent stock market collapse took a big toll off of the 28-34 year old population in particular.
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:03 PM   #67
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I am currently worth about -$30,000 and falling.

I have no assets of any real value. No business holdings. No car. No house. No stocks.

I do have student loans, and piles of medical debt though. And an Amazon card I need to pay off this term.

I am hoping to get a publishing label off the ground this summer though, to handle my new book, but that's probably going to be a zero net worth sort of business, so that own't count either.
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:14 PM   #68
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Wait, are you saying that federal education grants make your life harder?

Listen, buddy. I worked for several years before going back to school, so I've paid into the system as well. Federal education grants are a drop in the bucket in the US Treasury. There are bigger, less useful fish to fry. I feel for your situation, but I'm hardly "playing the system" or getting a "free education". Far from it.

Even with those grants I still have to borrow several thousand each semester, so I'm still racking up a ton of personal debt. I couldn't even touch unemployment benefits, unlike many of my friends. I also decided, against the urgings of a friend of mine, not to apply for food stamps, even though I qualify for them. Please don't paint me as some sort of freeloader.

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Old 04-03-2012, 05:19 PM   #69
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As well as more people going to university there is the trend of studying for 4-6 years instead of 3-4 years 20+ years ago. This delays entry into the workforce and increases the average amount of student debt.
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:22 PM   #70
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Wait, are you saying that federal education grants make your life harder?

Listen, buddy. I worked for several years before going back to school, so I've paid into the system as well. Federal education grants are a drop in the bucket in the US Treasury. There are bigger, less useful fish to fry.

Even with those grants I still have to borrow several thousand each semester, so I'm still racking up a ton of personal debt.
(In case anyone wonders what Mag's is replying to, I deleted a post I made out of frustration).

Mags, I wasn't saying Federal education grants SPECIFICALLY make MY SPECIFIC life harder, it was more to point out that things have just snowballed. EVERYONE wants something for free, and yes, there are people who need help. My point was more, the folks at the top, and the folks at the bottom seem to get that help. When the folks in the middle (like me) seem to pay for all of it and look around and find themselves in a situation where they could die tomorrow and know the last 20 years of working has done nothing but given their family DEBT to pay off. And I've never gotten into big credit card debt, not lived outside my means. Just a car loan, student loans and a rediculously underwater mortgage... It tends to frustrate a person.
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:24 PM   #71
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Wait, are you saying that federal education grants make your life harder?

Listen, buddy. I worked for several years before going back to school, so I've paid into the system as well. Federal education grants are a drop in the bucket in the US Treasury. There are bigger, less useful fish to fry. I feel for your situation, but I'm hardly "playing the system" or getting a "free education". Far from it.

Even with those grants I still have to borrow several thousand each semester, so I'm still racking up a ton of personal debt. I couldn't even touch unemployment benefits, unlike many of my friends. I also decided, against the urgings of a friend of mine, not to apply for food stamps, even though I qualify for them. Please don't paint me as some sort of freeloader.
I can't at all figure out who you're responding to.
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:29 PM   #72
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As well as more people going to university there is the trend of studying for 4-6 years instead of 3-4 years 20+ years ago. This delays entry into the workforce and increases the average amount of student debt.
Largely, this is because a Bachelor's degree is worth barely more than a HS Diploma in the present market.

I'm going to get a Masters in all likelihood, unless I'm lucky enough to find a job between school years, because a Bachelor's at this point is basically a waste of time and money, and this kind of debt is not something I'm willing to incur and find I still have less chance of getting a job than some acne-riddled pothead applying at the KwikEMart.
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:45 PM   #73
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I can't at all figure out who you're responding to.
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(In case anyone wonders what Mag's is replying to, I deleted a post I made out of frustration).
Voila.


Khrymsyn, I totally understand your frustration, believe me. I sincerely wish you all the best, and I hope every day that our problems get solved. My cynical/realistic side says that probably won't happen any time soon, unfortunately.


J Arcane - I've thought about going for a Masters as well, but I'm not sure I want to be in school for that long. It's dicey as you risk being "overqualified", as has happened to some people I know. All of that time and money and they are being passed over in favor of older people with more job experience or people with a lower-level degree.

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Old 04-03-2012, 05:52 PM   #74
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Of course it's this kind of escalation that makes a bachelors degree "worthless". Consider how little of what people study tends to apply to their chosen careers. Time at university brings many benefits but once you start working it's like being a student all over again. Which isn't a bad thing at all but it might make you question the value of those 5-7 years at university.

Personally I think people on average are spending far too long studying at university. Of course it might be more accurate to say "are forced to"...
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Old 04-03-2012, 05:57 PM   #75
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Of course it's this kind of escalation that makes a bachelors degree "worthless". Consider how little of what people study tends to apply to their chosen careers. Time at university brings many benefits but once you start working it's like being a student all over again. Which isn't a bad thing at all but it might make you question the value of those 5-7 years at university.

Personally I think people on average are spending far too long studying at university. Of course it might be more accurate to say "are forced to"...
That may be, but it is what it is, and I'd be silly to ignore the numbers, which consistently, even now, are showing a $20,000 difference in yearly earning between a bachelor's and a master's degree.

I'm too old to risk coming out of this with a degree that I can't build a career on, and right now, a bachelors doesn't seem to be that.
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:22 PM   #76
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That may be, but it is what it is, and I'd be silly to ignore the numbers, which consistently, even now, are showing a $20,000 difference in yearly earning between a bachelor's and a master's degree.

I'm too old to risk coming out of this with a degree that I can't build a career on, and right now, a bachelors doesn't seem to be that.
Of course there is 3-4 years of additional student debt along with 3-4 years of lost income and lost opportunity to start paying off the existing debt. Also, the continued escalation of academic qualifications potentially means that those same folks who you were competing with for jobs when you first graduated now have Masters and PhDs.

Anyway, not saying you made the wrong decision for yourself or that students are at fault (not at all!). But the system as it stands is currently broken.
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:56 PM   #77
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[QUOTE=Khrymsyn;984495 When the folks in the middle (like me) seem to pay for all of it and look around and find themselves in a situation where they could die tomorrow and know the last 20 years of working has done nothing but given their family DEBT to pay off.[/QUOTE]

While I think what you've said is very true, I personally would love to be "stuck" in the middle. Its almost not possible for me to not "live over my means."
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:58 PM   #78
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Well, I'm in the black. I have a few thousand dollars worth of bank shares (worth a lot less than they were in early 2007) and next to nothing in the bank.

Well, okay, that's not strictly true. I have about $30000 (aud) worth of student loan debt, but since paying it back is tied to earning taxable income in Australia, if I never go back, it might as well not exist.
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:01 PM   #79
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Well, okay, that's not strictly true. I have about $30000 (aud) worth of student loan debt, but since paying it back is tied to earning taxable income in Australia, if I never go back, it's might as well not exist.
Yeah, I'm in a similar boat, living abroad with about $1500 in unpaid HECs. I actually rang up the Tax Office last year to try and find out how to pay off the last bit but Skype kept dropping out before I could get through the automatic prompts so I gave up.
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:10 PM   #80
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You know.. there's this program that I don't think many of you with student debt have probably ever heard about and you really should know about it.

You might be familiar with income based repayment plans (you damn well should be!) but students especially should pay attention to the Public Service Loan Forgiveness plan as well.

The gist of it is: 1)accumulate debt, 2)work for a nonprofit, the government, or peacecorps/americorps, 3)pay IBR payments for 10 years, 4)?????, 5)Debt forgiven by government.

Check it out http://www.ibrinfo.org/what.vp.html
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