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Old 10-16-2011, 08:07 AM   #81
MagGnome
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Originally Posted by Grifter View Post
Narradisall made a comment that sounded to me like he thought it was fucked up that publishers are OK with used game sales now that they are getting something out of it and I was pointing out that other than the money issue used game sales are the same as any other used market therefor no one really has a valid reason to bitch about it any longer because all those people who are\were against it are/were generally against it because the developers don't get a cut so if Gamestop starts giving the developers/publishers a kickback from used games the problem is pretty much solved.

The short of it is that either Narradisall didn't understand why people had issues with the used market in the first place so I explained it or I don't understand the reasons why he still has a problem or thinks the developer/publisher should still have a problem with it (outside of the money issue) and my last post was pointless.
Ah, I see. Thanks for clarifying. I didn't mean to pick your post apart or anything. I was honestly just confused.
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Old 10-16-2011, 09:47 AM   #82
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Cars and DVDs and whatever else aren't really a good example, because unlike those, games require continued work from the publisher in some cases. If my car breaks down, MINI doesn't give a shit, I have to pay them even though I didn't buy it new. It's not like my copy of The Expendables needs a patch or something.

I have come to look at it like this, though - what if a game sells a million copies launch week, and then never sells another copy ever? Further, what if every mother fucker plays it every day? Would this be any worse than if they sold a million copies but 900,000 got sold again and again as used, but all of those people still played online every day?

No, of course not, because they still grossed $60,000,000 either way.

The thinking that the accountants at these publishers are using is this: "If we could prevent used sales, people will have to buy our game new." I would guess this is only true in a small percentage of cases. I think it would be more accurate to say: "If we could prevent used sales, people who might have been interested in our titles will just move on to the next thing if our price doesn't drop fast enough."

They are assuming that there is a constant demand for their product at its initial asking price, and that used sales fuck them out of some magic sale that was going to happen if only the game wasn't available used. I'm sure that this does happen but not in the majority of used sales. I think most of the time people just wanna buy a game, and see a cheap used one and think, "Oh, I'll try that."

If publishers want to prevent used sales, then they should provide a steady stream of compelling DLC. I can think of many games and genres that I would pay near-monthly fees for if the content was excellent.
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Old 10-16-2011, 09:55 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Inspector Fowler View Post
Cars and DVDs and whatever else aren't really a good example, because unlike those, games require continued work from the publisher in some cases. If my car breaks down, MINI doesn't give a shit, I have to pay them even though I didn't buy it new. It's not like my copy of The Expendables needs a patch or something.
Most of the time, games don't require continued work from a publisher, and when they do, it's usually due to ineptness on the developer/publisher. I don't feel I should have to subsidize that.
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Old 10-16-2011, 10:06 AM   #84
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Most of the time, games don't require continued work from a publisher, and when they do, it's usually due to ineptness on the developer/publisher. I don't feel I should have to subsidize that.
I don't know that I totally agree with this. Sometimes there is stuff a publisher can't forecast that requires post-launch work (like a bunch of us using the BF3 beta drivers that didn't even exist when Rage probably went gold). A video card driver update or some weird hardware thing in the future can cause problems, and if the publisher doesn't put a team on it they get tarred and feathered on gaming forums.

That's PC gaming more, I guess. In general I feel like a console game should work and if not, like you said, that's their fault.

Eventually I think this sort of stuff will get sorted out, but in a way most of us don't like. I think that big franchises will become subscription-based like an MMO, but they won't always provide the content and service that most MMOs give you with your money/month.
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Old 10-16-2011, 10:09 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Inspector Fowler View Post
Cars and DVDs and whatever else aren't really a good example, because unlike those, games require continued work from the publisher in some cases. If my car breaks down, MINI doesn't give a shit, I have to pay them even though I didn't buy it new. It's not like my copy of The Expendables needs a patch or something.
I agree with the rest of your post. However, I've seen the above presented as an argument against used game sales many times, and it just doesn't hold up.

Let's say that EA sells 4 million copies of Battlefield 3. Now let's say that 500,000 of those copies get traded back to Gamestop and are later sold to other people. EA is still going to be supporting 4 million copies, not 4.5 million. Your above argument would only hold up if somehow used sales actually increased the number of copies of the game in circulation, but they don't.

That argument would work better against piracy, in which a potentially infinite number of copies could exist that the publisher/developer never received money for. However, it doesn't work for used sales.
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Old 10-16-2011, 10:14 AM   #86
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If cars came out as broken as games do we'd all be dead.
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Old 10-16-2011, 10:38 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Inspector Fowler View Post
Eventually I think this sort of stuff will get sorted out, but in a way most of us don't like. I think that big franchises will become subscription-based like an MMO, but they won't always provide the content and service that most MMOs give you with your money/month.
If that happened the industry would collapse. No normal person can support a few dozen game subscriptions. Hence the reason most MMOs don't even charge you a monthly fee, anymore.
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