Game Writing

[TheKeck]

Today's Penny Arcade really brought up some interesting ideas about game writing that I'd never thought of before. It seems obvious that in game development, the gameplay would often be at the heart of what it worked on with the story/writing tacked on later. And then we're surprised at the quality/depth thereof. Anyway, I thought it maybe merited some discussion, or something.

[Hawkzombie]

I'd love to get into Game Writing (I haven't read the article yet) but it seems a daunting task. I'm the kind of person who writes with no clear-cut outcome. Sort of 'seat of your pants' in a way, hoping something will come to me. EDIT: But I'm the kind that needs to have it all laid out before me and wrap the game around it. Not the other way around.

And the thought of it being done in stages, by multiple people...it honestly boggles my mind, but as a player it makes sense why some story elements don't even make a lick of sense in some games.

[Reverant]

Tycho compares it to "scoring" the game, like music. That completely surprised me. I wonder if this is different for Japanese developers, particularly RPG makers. Games like Xenogears feel like they were molded around the writer, not the other way around.

I can't think of any Western game with writing that blew me away... or even registered. Even "good" game writing, taken out of context of gaming and put into another medium like film, can be total shit. Only some of Japan's mind boggling psychotherapy jumble has made me consider not just what happened, but why, and were the implications. I learned more about philosophy and random religious traditions from analyzing Xenogears and Xenosaga than I have in school.

[Hawkzombie]

Originally Posted by Reverant

Tycho compares it to "scoring" the game, like music. That completely surprised me. I wonder if this is different for Japanese developers, particularly RPG makers. Games like Xenogears feel like they were molded around the writer, not the other way around.

I can't think of any Western game with writing that blew me away... or even registered. Even "good" game writing, taken out of context of gaming and put into another medium like film, can be total shit. Only some of Japan's mind boggling psychotherapy jumble has made me consider not just what happened, but why, and were the implications. I learned more about philosophy and random religious traditions from analyzing Xenogears and Xenosaga than I have in school.

Stop being so goddamn eloquent. I <3 your posts.

But I agree with this 100%...I've been moved (not recently sadly) by game writing and it was almost always originally a Japanese game. Final Fantasy 6 is notorious for this with me. It was just an amazing game story-wise.

I've yet to be 'blown away' with the writing and story in recent times from any games, though...makes me wonder if all this 'scoring' of writing and cookie-cutter type games is taking a toll on the quality of the story. For me games with good, or even decent storylines have been top on my list. And it seems sometimes that is a rarity.

[Mike Kelehan]

The Portal series is a pretty good example of great writing where the gameplay was the main focus.

[Reverant]

D'oh! Spoke too soon. I loved Red Dead Redemption last year. It didn't melt my brain like Xenogears, but I got chills at the end. I also smiled at a lot of dialogue, too.

On the flip side, some of Xenogears' dialogue was utterly nonsense.

Good. I'm back at square one. Glad I threw that out there.

Edit: GTA IV. I couldn't play it because there was too much focus on the narrative.

[Karak]

Red Dead Moved me big time.
The ending and wrap up of ME1 moved me actually.

Jade Empire(old game) had some really moving parts in the last 10 hours of the game. Some sad shit, some pointed and hard bits, and a harsh confrontation and a choice that I still don't know which way to swing on.

[TheKeck]

Originally Posted by Reverant

Tycho compares it to "scoring" the game, like music. That completely surprised me. I wonder if this is different for Japanese developers, particularly RPG makers. Games like Xenogears feel like they were molded around the writer, not the other way around.

Well, he says that many games are done that way (similar to scoring), but that others are not. The distinction there is what I found so interesting.

[TheKeck]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelehan

The Portal series is a pretty good example of great writing where the gameplay was the main focus.

I'm willing to bet there was a lot more back and forth, though, than in lots of other games.

[Vandabo]

A lot of the old Lucasarts games had great writing, and then those guys went on to do some other good stuff, like Psychonauts, which has some of the best game writing I've ever seen.

The nice thing about old time adventure games is that they were so relatively easy to produce that they could put much more effort into the story. When the writer gets a good idea, they don't have to worry about how long it will take to render it in trillions of polygons. They just need to write it down and have a guy draw it. Also, the only thing going for those games is basically the strength of the story, whereas people don't even notice the story in many modern games because the focus is on gameplay and graphics.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Part of the reason for this is that "writer" basically isn't a job in the games industry. There are exceptions, of course, but the amount of dialogue in most games is so huge that nobody gets to really steer the ship, and also everyone who writes is ALSO designing gameplay content.

This obviously doesn't apply to all companies.

[Reverant]

I guess it comes down to the developer's vision. If the point of the game is the story, it's less likely to be outsourced or written in as the game nears the end of production. My perception of Gears of War is that the main sell is the multi-player, where stories are essentially provided by the player.

And oh yeah, Mass Effect! Tremendous writing. I just smiled thinking about the ending sequence.

[menage]

Originally Posted by Karak

Red Dead Moved me big time.

It's the song that did it.

[Purple Santa]

Originally Posted by Reverant

Tycho compares it to "scoring" the game, like music. That completely surprised me. I wonder if this is different for Japanese developers, particularly RPG makers. Games like Xenogears feel like they were molded around the writer, not the other way around.

I can't think of any Western game with writing that blew me away... or even registered. Even "good" game writing, taken out of context of gaming and put into another medium like film, can be total shit. Only some of Japan's mind boggling psychotherapy jumble has made me consider not just what happened, but why, and were the implications. I learned more about philosophy and random religious traditions from analyzing Xenogears and Xenosaga than I have in school.

Well if you like Japanese "psychotherapy/ existentialism" you should check out The World Ends with You and to a lesser degree Lux Pain. They both are for the DS but they are great games and the themes in them I think you would enjoy.

[Mike Kelehan]

Originally Posted by TheKeck

I'm willing to bet there was a lot more back and forth, though, than in lots of other games.

Sure, but probably not TOO much, because the puzzles really existed outside the narrative. You'd solve a puzzle that's not related to anything, then hear some dialogue, and repeat. Because of that, it might not be a fair example. There are a few things that did matter, like the fact that the last part of the game was designed by an idiot and the way the final battle plays out, but for the most part, puzzles were their own thing.

Kind of like Layton.

Which I love.

[TheKeck]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelehan

like the fact that the last part of the game was designed by an idiot

What with the who now?

[Ink Asylum]

The puzzles were tied a lot more into the narrative than you give them credit for. Each major puzzle section has an appearance and style that tied into what was happening in the story. These longer sections are tied together by more story-rich areas which mixed narrative and puzzles very closely. The mechanics of the puzzles, especially during the Cave Johnson segments, also fit into the story. The very reason you're solving puzzles, and which puzzles you're solving when, are a major part of the narrative.

Narrative is not just dialogue. Valve does a great job in their games, Portal in particular, telling a story through the environments and your actions, not just cut scenes and dialogue.

[EWolfmanD]

Originally Posted by TheKeck

What with the who now?

I think the idiot he is referring to is Wheatley.

[Mike Kelehan]

Originally Posted by TheKeck

What with the who now?

The idea is that the last part of the game is, what would Aperture Science be like if an idiot was in charge? Story wise. I'm not saying the designers are idiots. What they did was brilliant.

[Ink Asylum]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelehan

The idea is that the last part of the game is, what would Aperture Science be like if an idiot was in charge? Story wise. I'm not saying the designers are idiots. What they did was brilliant.

And the first part is what would Aperture Science look like after hundreds of years of neglet. Or what it would look like with GLaDOS rebuilding it. Or what it looked like through three different periods of its history. All of that is a part of the story.