End of an Era: Final Shuttle Launch

[Sandman]

They're launching Atlantis in about 7 minutes, it all looks clear to go. I'm watching on CNN.

[Reverant]

And with it finally goes the last piece of America's frontier spirit.

[VerseD]

History taught me that empires expand for as long as they have the power to do so; once they stop, a long period sets in of retrenchment, stagnation, and aristocratic excess. Not that we can't stop it, boys, but it'll take some pain!

[Stoke]

More depressing to me than the last shuttle launch is that 99% of Americans don't even care or even think our lack of space related endeavors is a good thing.

[Narradisall]

On the plus side Verse, you have the aristocratic excess to look forward too.

LET THEM EAT CAKE!

[TheEpicOfTyler]

The House of Representatives celebrated by cancelling the James Webb Space Telescope.

It seems as if we're just quietly pulling out of space and hoping someone else picks up the slack.

[Narradisall]

China has a space programme I hear.

[MagGnome]

Originally Posted by VerseD

History taught me that empires expand for as long as they have the power to do so; once they stop, a long period sets in of retrenchment, stagnation, and aristocratic excess. Not that we can't stop it, boys, but it'll take some pain!

Stagnation and aristocratic excess? That describes the US to a "t".

At least the rich are doing well...

[TheEpicOfTyler]

Originally Posted by MagGnome

Stagnation and aristocratic excess? That describes the US to a "t".

At least the rich are doing well...

Aren't the rich routinely savagely beaten and strung up at the end of the empire? I might have a selective memory.

[MagGnome]

Yes, but we haven't reached that point quite yet.

[Voodoo]

As many times as I have mentioned the endeavors of Space-X, many of you continue to hold Government to be the caretaker of space travel. Ladies & gentlemen, I hope this marks the end of government here in the United States as caretaker in space exploration. I'm so pumped by Space-X and what they are doing that I am looking over their job listings to see how I may be assistance.

[digitalErich]

All of the people coming out of the woodwork on twitter as massive NASA fans all of a sudden is kind of disgusting. Did any of these people write in to their congressmen?

Not only is this is a hit to our technological and research power, it's just plain bad business. It's estimated that the US got a 16x return on NASA investment funding during the space race and that even recently we were still getting a 9x return on NASA funding.

By defunding NASA, they actively took money out of an investment that was returning money hand over fist.

[Sandman]

It still amazes me that we aren't anywhere near the tech to reach somewhere past the moon at this point. Sure we can send satellites and probes out there but manned flights are probably beyond my lifetime. I probably won't even see us go to the moon again.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

Originally Posted by Voodoo

As many times as I have mentioned the endeavors of Space-X, many of you continue to hold Government to be the caretaker of space travel. Ladies & gentlemen, I hope this marks the end of government here in the United States as caretaker in space exploration. I'm so pumped by Space-X and what they are doing that I am looking over their job listings to see how I may be assistance.

The private companies going into space is great, but those companies are not performing research that keeps thousands of scientists and physicists employed. The defunding of NASA is a lot more than not going to the moon or not building a new shuttle system.

[Voodoo]

Originally Posted by TheEpicOfTyler

The private companies going into space is great, but those companies are not performing research that keeps thousands of scientists and physicists employed. The defunding of NASA is a lot more than not going to the moon or not building a new shuttle system.

After a bit of research today it appears that the majority of people that worked on these programs @ NASA are being transferred either to Space-X or to the United Space Alliance.

[digitalErich]

Originally Posted by TheEpicOfTyler

The private companies going into space is great, but those companies are not performing research that keeps thousands of scientists and physicists employed. The defunding of NASA is a lot more than not going to the moon or not building a new shuttle system.

This right here. I do like that there is a growing private sector for space, it will do a lot of good, but I have little confidence that the private sector will do much hard science. Or, at least, what hard science is done will be a fraction of what NASA could do with even modest funding.

[Voodoo]

Originally Posted by digitalErich

This right here. I do like that there is a growing private sector for space, it will do a lot of good, but I have little confidence that the private sector will do much hard science. Or, at least, what hard science is done will be a fraction of what NASA could do with even modest funding.

Fortunately, I'm not one to so quickly wipe away the endeavor of this type of privatization. I feel that through the much cheaper avenue to launch, other companies that are working on hard science work will be able to get their research to orbit at a much lower entrance fee. Launching through NASA has been very expensive and I'm happy to see two private agencies here in America offering a choice.

Now regarding Space-X or United Space Alliance doing hard science themselves, just because... I have to question the need for a either of them to be so wide in scope. If they, instead, focus on launch, space and landing vehicles haven't they already accomplished a lot of the heavy lifting (no pun intended) for our current space exploration level. Space-X's Dragon, Heavy Lift Falcon 9 and Merlin engines are direct descendants of Werner's designs and are much more efficient than what NASA has ever used, not to mention a lot safer for the cargo.

Take a look for yourself at what the Falcon Heavy can do: http://www.spacex.com/falcon_heavy.php

[VerseD]

Originally Posted by MagGnome

Stagnation and aristocratic excess? That describes the US to a "t".

At least the rich are doing well...

Don't forget the retrenchment!

Originally Posted by TheEpicOfTyler

Aren't the rich routinely savagely beaten and strung up at the end of the empire? I might have a selective memory.

That's one way it can end: as violent a rebirth as the phoenix. The theory goes that modern industrial, democratic societies are too robust and adaptable to nose-dive into Roman oblivion at the end of the three century lifespan of more agrarian empires, but we're still waiting to see if that proves true.

One way to prove it false is to shortsightedly cut funding to NASA, the EPA, and the National Science Foundation -- at least that is my opinion.

Originally Posted by digitalErich

This right here. I do like that there is a growing private sector for space, it will do a lot of good, but I have little confidence that the private sector will do much hard science. Or, at least, what hard science is done will be a fraction of what NASA could do with even modest funding.

. . . and only if that science is profitable.

No, I don't think we should leave all scientific endeavors up to the private sector, nor should we rely on bloated government agencies for everything. There's no reason we can't strike a balance.

[digitalErich]

Originally Posted by Voodoo

*snip*

That's all great, and I wish I shared that level of hope. Look at Japan, they have had, via a combination of geography and tech, the cheapest cost to launch in the entire world. Is Japan's space and research program thriving? No, they've become a cargo carrier, launching TV and other commercial satellites for private corporations.

Important stuff, to be sure, but very little good science. When profits are a goal from the start, you necessarily have to have goals that are fairly short sighted, relative to space research. At least, that's how I see it playing out. I hope I'm proven wrong.

[Voodoo]

Originally Posted by digitalErich

That's all great, and I wish I shared that level of hope. Look at Japan, they have had, via a combination of geography and tech, the cheapest cost to launch in the entire world. Is Japan's space and research program thriving? No, they've become a cargo carrier, launching TV and other commercial satellites for private corporations.

Important stuff, to be sure, but very little good science. When profits are a goal from the start, you necessarily have to have goals that are fairly short sighted, relative to space research. At least, that's how I see it playing out. I hope I'm proven wrong.

That's an interesting perspective and one I do not share. I feel that if an agency, such as NASA (whom isn't being eliminated), no longer has to fund developing their own launch vehicles but instead will pay lower launch fees (with higher safety and efficiency ratings) without leaving Kennedy Space Center that they will have more available capital to fund hard science projects. Also, since they don't have to devote so much capital to maintaining the team that maintains the vehicles, that frees up a considerable more amount of funding towards their projects. Please point out somewhere in this line of thinking where the fault lies?