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Old 06-29-2011, 08:19 AM   #41
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Changing the menu does not drastically change the job. You're still cooking food. The role of chef still exists. Unless you signed a very specific contract, which I doubt.
But signing the marriage certificate of a gay couple represents a drastic change from signing the marriage certificate of a straight couple?

Technically from her point of view it's just two names on a piece of paper.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:35 AM   #42
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But signing the marriage certificate of a gay couple represents a drastic change from signing the marriage certificate of a straight couple?

Technically from her point of view it's just two names on a piece of paper.
That's the point I'm making. Her job did not drastically change. She's still signing sheets of paper. She's not suddenly driving a forklift.
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Old 06-29-2011, 08:41 AM   #43
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That's the point I'm making. Her job did not drastically change. She's still signing sheets of paper. She's not suddenly driving a forklift.
I see what you mean...I lost track of who was arguing what...I just woke up...confused you for BigJonno
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:06 AM   #44
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After all this, I wonder how she feels when a non-white person wants to marry a white person. Does she bitch and moan about that as well?
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:31 AM   #45
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Surely it's got to be more complex than that from a legal standpoint, unless this kind of situation is already covered in her contract. If you divorce (please excuse the pun) the situation from her bigoted viewpoint, it seems pretty shitty. I don't know about you guys, but I wouldn't be happy if I was told that my job would now involve doing something I felt was wrong and that my options were to STFU or quit.
For the UK, if you work for the government in any form you're expected to leave religion and groups you support at the door. The DWP for example have rules that state what you can and can't post on Facebook though it's rarely adhred to in practice. Anything that could be seen as "The government supports this view" can get you a verbal warning or a written one.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:43 AM   #46
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After all this, I wonder how she feels when a non-white person wants to marry a white person. Does she bitch and moan about that as well?
It's not entirely uncommon to meet people who are color blind yet homophobic.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:45 AM   #47
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But signing the marriage certificate of a gay couple represents a drastic change from signing the marriage certificate of a straight couple?

Technically from her point of view it's just two names on a piece of paper.
I do not think Ink was arguing that it was a drastic change. He was just saying his cooking example was also not a huge change in job roles.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:54 AM   #48
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Would we even be having a conversation about this if she'd said "I'm not going to issue marriage licences to black people or Jews"?

No, we wouldn't. It's discrimination plain and simple. The only difference between racial and sexual discrimination is that the latter has been more socially acceptable in our lifetimes.

There were plenty of teachers that refused to teach black kids during integration and they left or were terminated. And we are better for it. Fuck them and fuck this lady, she can find a new job. She gets no sympathy.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:56 AM   #49
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I do not think Ink was arguing that it was a drastic change. He was just saying his cooking example was also not a huge change in job roles.
Yeah...he pointed that out....I used the "it's early and I haven't had my coffee yet" justification for misunderstanding him.

I stand corrected.
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:10 AM   #50
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After all this, I wonder how she feels when a non-white person wants to marry a white person. Does she bitch and moan about that as well?
As far as I know (it's been a while since I've read through the Bible), marrying outside of race isn't considered a sin so they're not really comparable in how you're drawing the conclusion.
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:20 AM   #51
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As far as I know (it's been a while since I've read through the Bible), marrying outside of race isn't considered a sin so they're not really comparable in how you're drawing the conclusion.
I just figure with the many ways people interpret the bible, that somewhere someone interprets it against inter-racial marriage:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/marracbib.htm
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:24 AM   #52
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Oh I know there are some out there I just doubt that's where she's coming from. Not at all saying I agree with her position, I just don't think she's making the decision to stand up as arbitrary as (how I interpreted) the tone of your post made it to be.
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:28 AM   #53
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Oh I know there are some out there I just doubt that's where she's coming from. Not at all saying I agree with her position, I just don't think she's making the decision to stand up as arbitrary as (how I interpreted) the tone of your post made it to be.
I guess I was just going for the "old-school" jab at her as someone who is afraid of change, etc...
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:30 AM   #54
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I get it and I agree with your position (as it's my feeling as well, even as a Christian). However, I do think that belittles her stance by tossing in the "well, she's obviously racist too" which I don't agree with either (Queue someone saying she's a bigot and it doesn't matter if her position is belittled...).
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:33 AM   #55
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As far as I know (it's been a while since I've read through the Bible), marrying outside of race isn't considered a sin so they're not really comparable in how you're drawing the conclusion.
You can find evidence for any perspective in the Bible, depending on your reading of it.

From my perspective, the Bible (and almost every religion) advocates acceptance and love for all people: "Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love." People who claim a religious basis for hatred or intolerance are not following the Word, even if they think that what they hate is sinful -- it is not a mortal's business to judge the sins of others. Jesus washed the feet of a prostitute with his tears, asking for nothing and advising nothing.
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:33 AM   #56
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You don't have to convince me of anything . I agree completely.
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:36 AM   #57
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And it is fair to bring up interracial marriage laws (and the bigotry behind them) in this context. There were state laws against interracial marriage scattered across the Union up until a 1967 Supreme Court decision, just forty-four years ago. This twenty-first century struggle is not so different.
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:40 AM   #58
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And it is fair to bring up interracial marriage laws (and the bigotry behind them) in this context. There were state laws against interracial marriage scattered across the Union up until a 1967 Supreme Court decision, just forty-four years ago. This twenty-first century struggle is not so different.
It's fair to bring up if your goal is to simply illustrate another change in marriage laws that someone may or may not agree with while working for the state...I think what Blue was concerned about is assuming that if you're homophobic then it follows logically that you're also racist.

From this article we have no idea whether she is or isn't. It would be interesting to find examples from the past where someone had to deal with a change in marital laws regarding race. I'm sure it read very similar.
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:42 AM   #59
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You don't have to convince me of anything . I agree completely.
I don't mean to sound like a lecturer: just stating my opinion. I think most people, including this New York clerk, are more naive, simple-hearted, and afraid than really hateful or wicked. "Fear was the principal motive," diagnosed Thucydides, "though honor and self-interest afterwards came in" -- and, in this case, the vanity of the spotlight.
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:46 AM   #60
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That quote reminds me of Donnie Darko
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