Civilization V

[SilentScreams]

My only fear is you'll eventually get to the point where you can't see any of the land because every hex is loaded with a military unit. If armies get as big as they do on Civ 4, then it won't take long at all for that to happen.

[MagGnome]

Originally Posted by Hotcod

battle lines! exactly what I wanted to hear. I think they are trying to get most of the conflict from out of cites and in to the land scape. It was damn annoying being unable to hold a choke point if one big stack of units happened to slip by you and so on.

Choke points? There's no such thing in the Civilization games.

Originally Posted by J Arcane

Yeah, the "one unit per tile" thing is probably a good thing for the combat. It forces actual battle lines, reduces the amount of build up needed to succeed in war, and prevents pure human wave tactics. Now they just need a zone of control mechanic and they'll be all set.

Civ4 combat always seemed to wind up boiling down to "build a shitload of units more advanced then the other guy, then hammer their cities until they're all dead" for offense, and "just put a bunch of guys in there and load up on defense improvements" for defense.

It wasn't just Civ 4 - 3 was like that as well and I'm pretty sure 1 and 2 also featured that kind of combat "strategy". I've always felt that the combat in the Civ games was very weak, so I'm glad to see they are overhauling the entire system. The possibilities are very exciting!

I wonder what this means for nukes? Hopefully you can have another unit on the same tile as a nuclear weapon or other similar devices. I also hope that workers can occupy the same space as military units.

Originally Posted by SilentScreams

My only fear is you'll eventually get to the point where you can't see any of the land because every hex is loaded with a military unit. If armies get as big as they do on Civ 4, then it won't take long at all for that to happen.

I don't think that will be a problem. The tiles in Civ 5 appear to be much larger than those in previous Civ games, so having a unit on a tile shouldn't obscure the landscape like it did before.

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by MagGnome

They didn't say that there will only be one defender per city. They said that they will only be one unit per tile, which is a great change. Larger cities will be able to have more defenders if this is the case.

I meant in the particular hex the city occupies. The link said that new units have to move out of the city as soon as they're built, so I figured that meant one defender in the city's hex. Though you'd probably keep a number of defenders around your city / in its radius (though it's not strictly a radius anymore).

Unless we get cities that occupy multiple hexes or something, which would mean more defenders per city, but still one per hex.

[MagGnome]

Originally Posted by Wraith

I meant in the particular hex the city occupies. The link said that new units have to move out of the city as soon as they're built, so I figured that meant one defender in the city's hex. Though you'd probably keep a number of defenders around your city / in its radius (though it's not strictly a radius anymore).

Unless we get cities that occupy multiple hexes or something, which would mean more defenders per city, but still one per hex.

It says that cities occupy more tiles as they grow. It also says that only one unit is allowed per tile.

Thus I came to the conclusion that larger cities, with multiple tiles, can have multiple units defending them.

[Wraith]

I thought that meant the city's "radius" of workable hexes grows one at a time, though the city itself just occupies a single hex.

Well, regardless, a single unit per tile changes city defense quite a bit. If you let a bunch of enemy units get too close to your city, you don't have a stack of defenders to fall back on.

[MagGnome]

Either way it's a welcome change, IMHO. In the previous games it was impossible to conquer a larger city without a ton of units. That makes some logical sense, but moving that many units was a complete pain in the neck. I hope that these new changes will lead to more strategy and less unit-spamming.

[DeathtollWRX]

I didn't mind having to build 40 mechanized infantry to crack a city. Now only one unit per hex. That's going to change the game too much! Having to rethink how to play a sequel is new to me

Actual battle lines? Color me interested.. Not trading for tech is gonna not be cool. I loved pounding my enemies with superior infantry to get better techology in other fields I did not research.

[Wraith]

IGN preview, covers some of the same info we've seen already.

• influenced by Panzer General (hex grid, one unit per hex)
• combat focus on movement/position outside of cities
• greater focus on diplomacy than previous Civs
• unaligned city states
• removed religion, espionage systems
• influenced by Civ Rev - cleaner interface, advisors, but no cartoony look/feel
• improved event notifications
• more accessible, still deep, detailed as PC Civ should be
• highly moddable; in-game browser for community content/interaction

And:

Be sure to check back with IGN next week as we reveal exclusive new details on the game design and overall content of the new game.

[CappinCanuck]

Originally Posted by Wraith

[*]removed religion, espionage systems

This makes me happy. Founding a couple religions and building the wonder that gives you gold per city with that religion was way too powerful IMO.

[J Arcane]

I never minded religion, and I hope someone mods it back in in some capacity, albeit maybe one with player naming.

Espionage sucked ass though as implemented, as all it was was an added vector to drain funds from everything else you already had to keep up with. It was neat some of the things you could do, but most of them were uselessly temporary, and they could've easily been done without tacking on a whole new tax category and points.

I haven't seen any mention of dumping corporations yet though, and that worries me. Those were the worst of all the additions to the game. The only way to prevent them from becoming a net drain on your country was to micromanage the hell out of them and farm all the satellite offices over seas. The computer never built them, either for lack of AI, or for good AI, and I never build them. They added nothing to the game, so unless they've fixed them considerably, I hope they've been dumped too.

[Wraith]

Originally Posted by J Arcane

I never minded religion, and I hope someone mods it back in in some capacity, albeit maybe one with player naming.

Espionage sucked ass though as implemented, as all it was was an added vector to drain funds from everything else you already had to keep up with. It was neat some of the things you could do, but most of them were uselessly temporary, and they could've easily been done without tacking on a whole new tax category and points.

I haven't seen any mention of dumping corporations yet though, and that worries me. Those were the worst of all the additions to the game. The only way to prevent them from becoming a net drain on your country was to micromanage the hell out of them and farm all the satellite offices over seas. The computer never built them, either for lack of AI, or for good AI, and I never build them. They added nothing to the game, so unless they've fixed them considerably, I hope they've been dumped too.

I've seen the AI build corporations, and spread them to my cities.

I liked the religion feature, especially for the culture boost and extra money it brought in. And it added to the diplomatic aspect, with others loving / hating your Civ, depending on your religion (though they could've balanced that a bit, with more varying degrees).

[Panthera]

I think religions work fine within the context of Civilization IV, which really has to be looked at as a whole. The balance of it is actually quite different from previous games. There's no reason why a new Civilization game - especially one so radically different - has to define itself by what it does and doesn't carry over from the previous one in the series.

[DoctorFinger]

To me the religions gave you an extra reason to really push for some of the non-military Techs.

[J Arcane]

As well as, in the expansions, offering a much more achievable early game victory.

I always found the military option to be a difficult victory to ensure in early game, to do the small difference in stats between units.

[Wraith]

IGN has a more lengthy preview now, with new screenshots.

Taking a look at it now...

[Panthera]

God those screenshots are beautiful. I love how hex-based terrain looks.

[Wraith]

A lot of good info in that article, some expanding on changes mentioned previously.

• Having a defender in your city's hex is optional. City will defend itself, improved with buildings/tech.
  
  
• One unit per hex makes terrain more important in combat.
  
  
• Tactics of keeping ranged units protected from melees. Ranged units can soften up melee defenders (and city defenses?), while saying off the front lines.
  
  
• Can swap adjacent units (move one up to the front line, bringing the other back to heal).
  
  
• Civ AIs have four levels of strategy. Lowest to highest: Tactical (controls units in battle), Operational (chooses battles to fight, makes units available), Strategic (manages city building, production), Grand Strategic (chooses victory condition to pursue).
  
  
• City-states can be captured, but offer more benefits if they're independent, but friendly. Can spur conflict between civs competing for their bonuses.
  
  
• Each civ leader has a flavor. Preference for certain tactics (expansion, naval warfare, conquest, etc.). Level of flavor adjusted randomly when game starts. (If base flavor is an 8, may start anywhere from 6 to 10.) Can change based on context.
  
  
• Each leader also has unique traits. (Not like Civ IV, where some leaders had the same traits.) None specified yet.
  
  
• Diplomacy screen full 3D environment (not just a backdrop). Leaders speak in their own languages. Have different personalities (example of different leader responses when you defeat a civ).
  
  
• Research pact between civs. Costs cash up front. 15% boost to research, 20 turns. Can be broken off by war.
  
  
• One luxury resource hex is enough for your whole civ to benefit (trade the rest), but resource hexes have limited use. One iron deposit lets you build/maintain 5 iron-based units. Need more resources for more units.
  
  
• Borders grow one hex at a time, based on culture. "Good" tiles (more food) are easier to earn than "bad" tiles (forest, mountains).
  
  
• No city defections, but border tensions can spur conflict with neighbors.
  
  
• Geographic variations for terrain. Culture-specific music. War and peace playlists.
  
  
• Terrain-specific sounds. And if unit falls in one type of terrain, it sounds specific to that terrain. Positional sounds (for surround sound systems).
  

And we know the large majority of the 18 civs & leaders in the game now (only one leader per civ), and a few of the independent city-states.

CIVS (LEADERS):

1. America (Washington)
2. Arabia (Harun al-Rashid)
3. Aztec (Montezuma)
4. China (Wu Zetian)
5. Egypt (Ramses)
6. England (Elizabeth... though some articles reference Victoria)
7. France (Napoleon)
8. Germany (Bismarck)
9. India (Gandhi)
10. Japan (Oda Nobunaga)
11. Mongol (Genghis Khan)
12. Ottoman (Suleiman)
13. Roman (Julius Caesar)
14. Russia (Catherine)
15. Songhai (Askia)
16. Viking?
17. TBA
18. TBA

CITY STATES:

• Singapore
• Rio de Janeiro
• Budapest
• Florence

[Hotcod]

One of the biggest changes to the game is the new one-unit-per-hex restriction. Previous Civ games have been dominated by the "stack of doom" where players create an unstoppable super unit by piling all of their units in a single square. That strategy is not available in Civ V, which should, the designers reason, pull combat away from the cities. Now when an invading army enters your territory, you'll want to send your spearmen and warriors and swordsmen out to fight them in the fields around your towns. Cities will automatically defend themselves now, and can benefit from increased defense based on certain structures or technologies, so you don't necessarily need to garrison a unit for defense but you can if you want to.

It sounds reaaaaaaaaly really good to me! The way they are dealing with the AI is rather damn cool.

[Wraith]

Eurogamer interview with lead designer Jon Shafer and producer Dennis Shirk. And preview here.

[Wraith]

Ooh, we get to see a little bit of the (probably pre-alpha) interface in the background of this Eurogamer pic. Smallish version below. Click here for huge res.