Dating Advice Thread

[civil_dead]

Originally Posted by PathMaster

Confidence can be perceived as arrogance, by some.

I can see that, but I also believe people often project their insecurities onto others. It's pretty common: People resent the person with confidence so they consider them arrogant, but the truth of the matter may be quite different. Now I'm not saying confidence and arrogance don't often overlap, they do. But if someone's first response to a confident person is to assume they are arrogant I would say that's more a reflection on themselves rather than another person.

In short, if someone is intimidated by confidence frankly I wouldn't even consider dating that person. Projection of emotions is a major red flag, IMO.

Originally Posted by bean

Ugghh! You are asking her about her feelings toward you and demanding she clarify your relationship? Maybe you should knit her a nice pillow cover or bring over some Masengil so you can douche together next? Do you understand what you are doing?

When you start asking a girl to clarify your relationship instead of figuring it out yourself by gauging how she reacts to your flirting, you are being EXTREMELY UNATTRACTIVE.

So maybe she does like you, but you are putting her in a shit position where you come off as a whiney, needy coward - so of course she is recoiling.

This puts you in an awkward position because she's basically told you that she wants to be girlfriends with you, so now if you flirt openly with her to try to gauge her reaction it's kind of aggressive and strange. Your only manly choice now after fucking it up beyond all repair is to start ignoring her. If she calls you, tell her something like, "You made it clear you are not physically attracted to me, so unless you are calling to say you've changed your mind and you'd like to go out on a date, I think it's best we don't hang out." There's a chance she'll change her mind, but you absolutely can't fuck it up again by acting like an insecure pussy.

That's not to say that you shouldn't be gauging what a girl thinks about you. However, putting a girl on the spot to "clarify your relationship" is a huge, huge, enormous, fuck up. If you can't tell without needing to be so direct that you kill all sexual attraction that may have been building up between you, then you need to work on that.

A fun thing to do with straight buddies is to practice your game on each other. One of you pretends to be the girl and the other tries to talk the other ones panties off. Your buddy responds in a melodramatic way when something you say is good OR bad. You have to be emotionally mature and sexually secure to enjoy the bit of humor, but it can absolutely help sharpen your game. If you live in Austin, I can give you the Masters class in exchange for you buying the drinks for yourself, me, and ladies for the night (~$100).

Oy. Ignore this completely unless you're trying to fuck bean in which case more power to you. You're trying to act like a man, not some macho douche.

Asking a woman to clarify her intensions is fine and does nothing to ruin any mood or image. That said, the major caveat (and where perhaps Dude Bro and I agree) is that you have to ask from a place of confidence. One of the most intense, sexual, incredible and life-changing relationships I had began with me asking a girl to go for a walk with me. During that walk I said I was extremely attracted to her and thought dirty things about her more often than I should. I then asked her if she felt the same because that was the vibe I was getting--she said she did and thus began six of the best months of my life. She appreciated the fact that I was so forthright as most "men" her age (she was 13 years younger than me) were tools.

So ask if the situation presents itself and do so knowing what you want. If she agrees, then get at it. If she says she doesn't feel the same you know exactly where you stand and can move on. Though diablopath I will say from what you've said this girl sounds like she's either not interested or retarded. In either case I would say move on post-haste.

[bean]

Originally Posted by Ink Asylum

Getting better at reading and responding to a woman's signals is the ultimate goal, but let's face facts, that isn't going to help diablopath right now. That's a long-term process that takes years and numerous women, not weeks trying to crack through one girl's armor. Not even a crash course with some kind of dating coach is going to help him resolve his immediate situation.

I absolutely agree, but I also believe, "perfect practice makes perfect" and screwing the pooch by asking a girl to clarify a relationship (and thus coming off needy, insecure, and cowardly) is far less than perfect practice.

@civil_dead - This isn't about being "macho". In fact, that is a very WRONG way to flirt, and if you are doing that or think that that is positive, then you need to work on it.

What it is about is not doing something that will obviously turn girls off of you. Whether or not he gets the girl, he isn't going to learn to get better at sending and reading signals if he is so needy and insecure that he needs to ask a girl for clarity.

Let's put ourselves in the girl's shoes:

1. You flirt with a guy several times and he doesn't make a move. Maybe he's gay or just not interested, you think, but either way he is a nice, friendly guy that you enjoy being around.

2. He asks you to tell him what he means to you. . . well, first you are uncomfortable, and now you just aren't that in to him. Does he want us to be boyfriend and girlfriend even though we haven't even made out? Is he so insecure that he has to have a girlfriend to make a first move. Ugh. This seems like way more effort than it's worth. I don't want a boyfriend at all right now, and I certainly don't want a boy I have to teach to not be a coward.

Of course, I don't know what she is feeling, but the point isn't that he isn't being macho. The point is that he is projecting insecurity and cowardice while demanding commitment. It's one of the most unattractive things you can ever possibly do.

It's as if diablopath were calling for help from the bottom of a well and everyone is shouting down at him that he just needs to learn how to climb the sheer rock wall.

That's a bad analogy. His life isn't in danger. He's just not getting pussy.

A more appropriate analogy is that we are all out fishing for delicious catfish and every time he gets something on the line, he is throwing his pole in the water. I am just saying, "STOP THROWING YOUR FUCKING POLE IN THE WATER DUMMY!"

If the shortcut means he's blown it with this girl, then that's ok. Put her into the friend zone and move on to another where you don't have such a tangled situation and start learning how to do it right from the start.

She's probably already gone forever. He's been too much effort, but that doesn't make her bad practice, and she certainly isn't impossible. Also, hopefully, time has made it so he is getting better at reading her signals. While they are mostly shared between girls, I think most guys learn these from their first longterm girlfriend (not that she'll be that, but anything he can learn from seeing the same girl often will help with others).

[Ink Asylum]

Originally Posted by bean

I absolutely agree, but I also believe, "perfect practice makes perfect" and screwing the pooch by asking a girl to clarify a relationship (and thus coming off needy, insecure, and cowardly) is far less than perfect practice.

You seem to think that the only way to talk to a woman about the status of a relationship is by being needy, insecure, and cowardly. Civil already laid out a scenario where directly addressing how he felt and asking a woman to do the same is confident and bold. There are plenty of other ways to do it that are direct and can actually be more effective than non-verbal flirting, especially when your non-verbal game is weak.

She's probably already gone forever. He's been too much effort, but that doesn't make her bad practice, and she certainly isn't impossible. Also, hopefully, time has made it so he is getting better at reading her signals. While they are mostly shared between girls, I think most guys learn these from their first longterm girlfriend (not that she'll be that, but anything he can learn from seeing the same girl often will help with others).

This isn't the right girl to practice on. There's too much awkwardness established between them. Any signals he tries to read or send and any reactions she gives to him will more than likely be misleading and inapplicable to women he doesn't have such a complicated history with.

To go back to your fishing analogy, his line is tangled, his reel is broken, and he's dragged halfway into the water. Trying to teach him how to properly set his hook and reel in his line as if this were a routine encounter is hopeless. He can try an unorthodox way of grabbing directly for the fish or he can cut his line and try to catch a different fish.

[Farsight]

Originally Posted by civil_dead

Asking a woman to clarify her intensions is fine and does nothing to ruin any mood or image.

Plus, if your goal is an actual relationship, do you really want one where your only form of communicating moods is through reading nonverbal cues? If the other person is incapable of telling you what they want (or worse, doesn't themselves know), and expects you to "just know", have fun playing that guessing game - forever.

It strikes me as odd how many people start relationships off from a very nonconstructive place, then seem surprised when the relationship ends up in a nonconstructive place.

Diablopath has found a girl who is incapable of mature communication. He appears to be someone who requires mature communication. This is a fundamental incompatibility. He simply needs to learn and recognize this in spite of his feelings towards the girl.

[Purple Santa]

Originally Posted by Farsight

Diablopath has found a girl who is incapable of mature communication. He appears to be someone who requires mature communication. This is a fundamental incompatibility. He simply needs to learn and recognize this in spite of his feelings towards the girl.

His "mature" communication to her needed to be at least expressing his own thoughts/feelings. I agree she's not communicating in a way that could be understood but the immaturity seems to be going in both directions.

[wyeast]

How to get out of the friendzone? To learn that it's not an either/or proposition. The moment you convince yourself, "oh shit, I'm friendzoned, guess I'm stuck now" you've already beaten yourself mentally. I can't tell you how many friends, years later, I've come to discover that yes, at one point they WERE interested. But I had convinced myself otherwise

It doesn't have to be.

[diablopath]

Originally Posted by Purple Santa

His "mature" communication to her needed to be at least expressing his own thoughts/feelings. I agree she's not communicating in a way that could be understood but the immaturity seems to be going in both directions.

You're right. I'm not very good at dealing with this stuff because, well, I haven't dealt with it a lot. I'm getting better, though, in that at least I can have a better sense of how I'm fucking up or what I'm doing wrong.

Anyway, we talked it over tonight, and decided to just leave it be. I told her the "surrogate boyfriend" stuff was over, and she agreed to not initiate it in the future. She apologized for being "misleading" and whatnot. I'm still not 100% sure what she was actually thinking, but whatever. I'm happy that it didn't get weird enough to ruin the friendship, because she's honestly quite fun to spend with.

I'm happy the way it went. There are a few other things about it that I'm hesitant to share here, but putting some deep thought into it, I think it turned out for the best.

I'll try and up the crazy next time so at least there can be laughs instead of debates about talking.

[Xerxes]

I said I'd have one this year. HA!

[wyeast]

Originally Posted by Xerxes

I said I'd have one this year. HA!

... and this is how Xerxes got himself sent a bunch of bromance valentines from various CoGGies.

[Hawkzombie]

Originally Posted by Xerxes

I said I'd have one this year. HA!

Ink is the best.

[Ink Asylum]

Originally Posted by Hawkzombie

Ink is the best.

Fixing your image link.

[Hawkzombie]

Originally Posted by Ink Asylum

Fixing your image link.

Sweet! Thanks

[PathMaster]

Originally Posted by civil_dead

I can see that, but I also believe people often project their insecurities onto others. It's pretty common: People resent the person with confidence so they consider them arrogant, but the truth of the matter may be quite different. Now I'm not saying confidence and arrogance don't often overlap, they do. But if someone's first response to a confident person is to assume they are arrogant I would say that's more a reflection on themselves rather than another person.

In short, if someone is intimidated by confidence frankly I wouldn't even consider dating that person. Projection of emotions is a major red flag, IMO.

I agree. They are most likely projecting their own insecurities onto the situation. The problem, is that they most likely fail to realize that, and create backlash.

[Hawkzombie]

So....I'm not gonna need this thread anymore.

Unless I need advice on where to take my wife.

...Yeah. We got back together.

Turns out she's been thinking about it a lot, and so have I...and we both seemed to pick relationships that were doomed before they began. But neither of us really mentioned anything because we weren't sure how the other felt, etc.

So we became 'friends with benefits' since...well...it was only a matter of time really with us both under the same roof. And things sort of went from there. We spent most of today texting and talking to each other and after my son was in bed we really sat and talked for a couple of hours. We both decided on what we want, and both feel after out 'crazy time' apart that we were both ready to really commit to this again and try a lot harder than either of us did the first time we split.

We're going on a date this weekend, changed out FB status, and put our rings back on.

I really think this time we are actually gonna make it work. I really really do.

[diablopath]

Oh, god dammit Hawk.

I saw where your status changed and I rushed here expecting to read a crazy and fucked up story.

But that's cool, too. Good luck!

Wish it had been crazier, though.

[Hawkzombie]

Originally Posted by diablopath

Oh, god dammit Hawk.

I saw where your status changed and I rushed here expecting to read a crazy and fucked up story.

But that's cool, too. Good luck!

Wish it had been crazier, though.

Oh, there are sure to be crazy stories. Just no longer here

[Ink Asylum]

Good luck, Hawk. If you need any advice you can now head over to the Relationship Advice thread.

[Purple Santa]

Originally Posted by Hawkzombie

So....I'm not gonna need this thread anymore.

Unless I need advice on where to take my wife.

...Yeah. We got back together.

Turns out she's been thinking about it a lot, and so have I...and we both seemed to pick relationships that were doomed before they began. But neither of us really mentioned anything because we weren't sure how the other felt, etc.

So we became 'friends with benefits' since...well...it was only a matter of time really with us both under the same roof. And things sort of went from there. We spent most of today texting and talking to each other and after my son was in bed we really sat and talked for a couple of hours. We both decided on what we want, and both feel after out 'crazy time' apart that we were both ready to really commit to this again and try a lot harder than either of us did the first time we split.

We're going on a date this weekend, changed out FB status, and put our rings back on.

I really think this time we are actually gonna make it work. I really really do.

Holy shit. I guess I need to stalk you on FB or something. You haven't mentioned this around here. Or if you did...well damn I missed it. But more important...Congrats! I'm glad you were able to work things through with your wife. It always seemed like there was that possibility. Please don't fuck it up this time, 'kay?

Originally Posted by Ink Asylum

Good luck, Hawk. If you need any advice you can now head over to the Relationship Advice thread.

Yeah, to help you NOT fuck it up again, go to this thread before anything gets out of control. Because it is you Hawk and we know stuff will get out of control

[Hawkzombie]

Originally Posted by Purple Santa

Holy shit. I guess I need to stalk you on FB or something. You haven't mentioned this around here. Or if you did...well damn I missed it. But more important...Congrats! I'm glad you were able to work things through with your wife. It always seemed like there was that possibility. Please don't fuck it up this time, 'kay?


Yeah, to help you NOT fuck it up again, go to this thread before anything gets out of control. Because it is you Hawk and we know stuff will get out of control

Are you on my FB? If not we should rectify this. Because I really need to add more people from this site to my personal life

[Hawkzombie]

And honestly...it was kinda outta nowhere. Just a few days ago I was talking to her about the whole Tattoo girl stuff again, and how it was kinda coming back, etc...and yesterday we just started talking. A lot. And now I've got a ring on my finger and I'm getting used to it again. Ha!