Cryptic's Emmert: MS to blame for MMO Foot-Draggery

[wyeast]

Remember when the future was so bright you had to wear shades? Huxley? Age of Conan? Champions Online? What happened?

If you believe what Cryptic CCO Jack Emmert had to say to the folks at VG247, at least some of the blame would lie in what he describes as foot-dragging on MS's part in coming to a conclusion on just how an MMO should operate on XBox Live.

“It just takes time for the big beast known as Microsoft to get moving. I really have no explanation other than that, because it’s as baffling to developers as it is to everyone else.”

Interestingly, VG247 reported getting a similar vibe from the Squeenix's FFXIV producer Hiromichi Tanaka during a recent chat at GamesCom.

What concerns MS has over MMO's on Live is something only they and devs can say for sure. Speculation is that among the reasons may be a concern that a popular MMO could become a WoW-like elephant, trampling demand (or potentially publishers attitudes towards) non-MMO games that don't bring the cash cow of subscription fees.

True or not, it's certainly food for thought.

Source: VG247
Image Source: Cryptic

[Chris_D]

I understand how it would annoy people to have to pay 2 subscriptions to play a game. Also, I get that MS wants to somehow profit from MMO players who may not play any other games. My solution would be that MS should just take a little bit of the subscription. So say, for a $10 sub, MS gets $1 or so. On top of that, you could offer Gold users a discount to any 360 MMO subscriptions, so say they save a $1-2 per month on each subscription. It would be another way to make Gold a premium service and encourage people to stay on gold even if they mainly play MMOs.

[MinorHero]

I didn't think there was any great secret behind this. Microsoft is picky about software going on their console because they are worried about crashes and conflicts that could potential result in damage to their system or just pissed off customers. So they test everything... a lot.

Meanwhile MMOs are the most complicated games being developed and have a lot of bugs and crashes and a lot of things that need testing. This slows things down.

But the real problem is that MMO companies want to be able to release patches on a regular basis and Microsoft wants to test every damn patch and put it through the same verification process. This system doesn't work very well for MMOs. Developers don't want to have to have two development teams running, One for patching the PC, and another months and months behind on patches working on something for consoles.

[OldJadedGamer]

I love how he complains but doesn't say what he's complaining about. His wording is just like his company... cryptic.

[Savok]

Originally Posted by MinorHero

I didn't think there was any great secret behind this. Microsoft is picky about software going on their console because they are worried about crashes and conflicts that could potential result in damage to their system or just pissed off customers. So they test everything... a lot.

Meanwhile MMOs are the most complicated games being developed and have a lot of bugs and crashes and a lot of things that need testing. This slows things down.

But the real problem is that MMO companies want to be able to release patches on a regular basis and Microsoft wants to test every damn patch and put it through the same verification process. This system doesn't work very well for MMOs. Developers don't want to have to have two development teams running, One for patching the PC, and another months and months behind on patches working on something for consoles.

Indeed, that's how we got such bug free software as Castle Crashers and the Fallout 3 DLC... oh wait.

MS need to give it up, their testing is useless and only holds everything up. What it takes them a month to miss the general public find in a day, it's a disgusting solution but it's the best we'd ever get.

[Vigil80]

Originally Posted by Savok

Indeed, that's how we got such bug free software as Castle Crashers and the Fallout 3 DLC... oh wait.

MS need to give it up, their testing is useless and only holds everything up. What it takes them a month to miss the general public find in a day, it's a disgusting solution but it's the best we'd ever get.

Here here. It always seemed to me like useless hoop-jumping, too. Like MS has to put folks through an initiation before letting them in to their exclusive console clubhouse.

[BigJonno]

I'm surprised that MS hasn't used an MMO of their own as some kind of Gold promotion thing. They're all about the added value (which they have to be, seeing as Gold is paying for something that everyone else offers for free) and I can just imagine them saying something like "Live Gold subscribers also get free access to "World of FantasyRingQuestXtreme360 of Heroes Online!" Since other MMOs charge more every month than Gold membership costs, it's like we're giving you money!"

[Xerxes]

Originally Posted by Savok

Indeed, that's how we got such bug free software as Castle Crashers and the Fallout 3 DLC... oh wait.

MS need to give it up, their testing is useless and only holds everything up. What it takes them a month to miss the general public find in a day, it's a disgusting solution but it's the best we'd ever get.

I'm in the camp of stop being stingy with the system. You made it for the people, not stop making them miserable. I mean the people wanting to put content online and do updates aren't waiting to rape your system. You want let Epic release content freely, you don't want anybody to put a MMO on the system yet you keep letting people promise it's coming. It's just rubbish.

Did the world implode when PS3 let user put mods on Unreal 3.

[KamaItachi]

Originally Posted by BigJonno

I'm surprised that MS hasn't used an MMO of their own as some kind of Gold promotion thing. They're all about the added value (which they have to be, seeing as Gold is paying for something that everyone else offers for free) and I can just imagine them saying something like "Live Gold subscribers also get free access to "World of FantasyRingQuestXtreme360 of Heroes Online!" Since other MMOs charge more every month than Gold membership costs, it's like we're giving you money!"

Give reduced monthly rates/early access to content for Gold users or allow purchasable items through Microsoft points. It really shouldn't be that hard to give people a reason to consider a Gold and monthly subscription for a MMO.

[Xerxes]

Originally Posted by KamaItachi

Give reduced monthly rates/early access to content for Gold users or allow purchasable items through Microsoft points. It really shouldn't be that hard to give people a reason to consider a Gold and monthly subscription for a MMO.

I'm sorry, developers and publishers shouldn't need concessions. PS3 Slim is a real threat. I mean that extra $100 barrier is gone and shit just got real. I love what Johnny Chung Lee did with the Wii but I doubt even he can make Project Natal the game changer. This isn't the first guy to bitch and moan about getting stuff on Live. All of these reports are as frequent as whining about how hard it is to PS3 games.

If you want people to have a Gold account to play, then just do that. People will hate you for it but at least it'll be over and done with already. They should just call the current Gold the new Platinum, leave the silver as is, and make Gold a mid way that is mainly a something for MMO'ers.

Doesn't matter I guess, I'm looking forward to DCU on PS3. Take that!

[Gorvi]

They must be totally fabricating this, it's just an excuse, LIVE is perfect.

[Xerxes]

Originally Posted by Gorvi

They must be totally fabricating this, it's just an excuse, LIVE is perfect.

Not perfect, but better than the rest. Those weaknesses are going to hurt them soon enough.

[Shrinn]

As previously mentioned, I always assumed it was the issue with patches.

[Kelegacy]

I'm not surprised. I don't think anyone should be at this point. It's Microsoft. And it'll only get worse if they ever become the #1 dominant, driving force in this industry.

That's the downfall of fee-based Live--MMOs need exceptions given to them or else people are paying for two subscriptions to play online. It's stupid.

But if exceptions are given to them, why not other companies and other games? I bet more companies would like to have people be able to access their online component without having to be Gold subscribers. Might make more people apt to buy the game.

[ElektroDragon]

In other words, they don't want something like WoW to destroy the console market like it helped destroyed the PC game market. I'm more than OK with it, I have no intention of ever paying subscription fees for a single game. In fact, I haven't really played an MMO to this day. I own two cheaply acquired copies of Guild Wars and haven't gotten around to installing them. One of these days, I'll find out what this MMO fuss is about.

[ElektroDragon]

Originally Posted by Xerxes

I'm sorry, developers and publishers shouldn't need concessions. PS3 Slim is a real threat.

A real threat?! Hahahaha! I'm not fanboy, I own all the consoles, but until the PS3 catches up to the 360 in software an offers basic things like MULTI-USER LOGIN, they are no threat at all. It's almost impossible to get my wife to play a local game on the PS3 with me, because they will be no record of her playing it, and she can't earn any trophies/achievements.

[Gorvi]

Originally Posted by ElektroDragon

A real threat?! Hahahaha! I'm not fanboy, I own all the consoles, but until the PS3 catches up to the 360 in software an offers basic things like MULTI-USER LOGIN, they are no threat at all. It's almost impossible to get my wife to play a local game on the PS3 with me, because they will be no record of her playing it, and she can't earn any trophies/achievements.

Since when did stupid little merit badges mean more than the act of playing and enjoying the game?

[Kelegacy]

Originally Posted by Gorvi

Since when did stupid little merit badges mean more than the act of playing and enjoying the game?

It's like the talk of Xbox Pirates getting caught playing ODST and getting their gamerscore reset. OOOOOHHHH, what a punishment!! They still get to play and enjoy the game, but just can't accumulate the points. Big whoop.

Every console before the 360 had no achievements (at least nothing formal) and no gamerscore. Didn't stop us from enjoying games for decades.

It's funny, no?

[OldJadedGamer]

Originally Posted by Kelegacy

It's like the talk of Xbox Pirates getting caught playing ODST and getting their gamerscore reset. OOOOOHHHH, what a punishment!! They still get to play and enjoy the game, but just can't accumulate the points. Big whoop.

Every console before the 360 had no achievements (at least nothing formal) and no gamerscore. Didn't stop us from enjoying games for decades.

It's funny, no?

As an achievement whore myself, I'll say that it's not that I don't enjoy games more with them... it's that I enjoy them in a different way that enhances my experience. If they weren't important then Sony would have never copied the feature.

[Kelegacy]

Originally Posted by OldJadedGamer

As an achievement whore myself, I'll say that it's not that I don't enjoy games more with them... it's that I enjoy them in a different way that enhances my experience. If they weren't important then Sony would have never copied the feature.

Oh, I enjoy them quite a bit. I'm at something like 47k--I like achievements and want them to stay around (and evolve a bit, too like being able to do something useful with a gamerscore). But to not enjoy a game because you don't get achievements is silly.

"There is no record I ever played this! No one can see I beat level 1 or headshotted 10 guys in a row!" That is foolish. There is absolutely no digital achievement record of me playing any game since 1984-2006 but it didn't diminish my enjoyment of videogames.