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Old 04-16-2012, 03:38 PM   #81
Hawkzombie
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Originally Posted by muddi900 View Post
You don't have to trust me, it takes 5 minutes dude! Not only that, looking like a thug is no grounds to get shot. And THE SOURCE IS A WHITE POWER FORUM!

Also, you do have an opinion, you think it's not as big a deal as the media is making it out to be. You are also under the opinion that the shooter is being depicted unfairly while claiming you don't have any facts. I understand you're walking on egg-shells here, but this is quite unbecoming. You think Zimmerman did the right thing, then say you support him, don't pussyfoot around it.

As for the Stand Your Ground law, I don't think the cops, or the prosecutors, give the same benefit of the doubt to everyone:
http://justiceformarissa.blogspot.com/

Of course, my source here is reddit, which is a giant circle jerk. If OX is still posting here, maybe he can clarify.
I never said I didn't think it wasn't a big deal, just that I hate how the media portrays things like this to sway public opinion one way or the other.

I love how saying I want some unbiased facts and truth somehow means I support what Zimmerman did and that he was in the right for shooting a black kid.

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Wooooooo fucking woooooooh down there.

Condemning the media's handling of this is not the same as tacitly supporting Zimmerman. Some of the media has vilified Zimmerman from day one, saying that does not mean I support Zimmerman, I don't know enough about the trial either way. Some of the media ( ok, well... Ruperts companies ) have vilified Martin, saying that doesn't mean I disagree or agree with their depiction.


The media is pushing a narrative, because their vested interest is to generate as much of a story as possible, even if that means sowing discord. You can make such a comment without walking on eggshells; as should you be able to say Zimmerman should have the right to presumed innocence until proven guilty.

The only other thing I have really seen from Hawk is the statement to the effect this *STORY* ( not the case, THE STORY ), would be no big deal if it wasn't racially charged... I think this falls pretty much under the no shit category. Cops fuck up all the time; so rarely does it make headlines and almost never is the president making a comment on it!
Thank you. This is the response (more or less ) that I was gonna write.


For the record? Zimmerman should have never even BEEN in that situation. But whether or not he should have shot? Not my decision ultimately, and as I've said it's up to the justice system. I will say he was an idiot and put himself in harms way and should be held accountable for that. Anything beyond that is what the court system is for.

I also agree with everyone who has been saying 'my gut says he's guilty, because of what I have so far in front of me' but is also smart enough to go with what I've been saying 'But it isn't my gut's call' (Thanks TFO )

But I'm sure someone will say I'm the new Grand Master of the KKK for making that statement.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:52 PM   #82
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For the record? Zimmerman should have never even BEEN in that situation. But whether or not he should have shot? Not my decision ultimately, and as I've said it's up to the justice system. I will say he was an idiot and put himself in harms way and should be held accountable for that. Anything beyond that is what the court system is for.
Well, if the courts don't convict him for ANYTHING, Florida law needs to change so that his extreme negligence is criminalized. Because he shouldn't have followed that kid with a loaded firearm. It should be illegal to do so.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:26 PM   #83
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Interesting discussion so far.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:38 PM   #84
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Well, if the courts don't convict him for ANYTHING, Florida law needs to change so that his extreme negligence is criminalized. Because he shouldn't have followed that kid with a loaded firearm. It should be illegal to do so.
I hate to bring up slippery slopes but... I just can't imagine how such a law wouldn't lead to horrific ends... unless of course you are arguing against concealed carry laws....
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:54 PM   #85
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I hate to bring up slippery slopes but... I just can't imagine how such a law wouldn't lead to horrific ends... unless of course you are arguing against concealed carry laws....
The FL could stand to be a bit more explicit about "you don't get to shoot someone because you found yourself losing the fight you started", IMO.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:30 PM   #86
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Yeah, actually reading the Texas Castle Doctrine SB 378, ours has a provision in which you cannot have started the fight. It's actually brought up twice in close proximity.

The wording, buried in Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON:
a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(1) if the actor [he] would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31 [justifications established in prior section]; and [other reasons and conditions, then:]
(2)did not provoke the person against whom the force was used

then later:
(c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is not required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this section.

This newer version of the bill, enacted in 2007, also extended the "castle" to your vehicle, so you can travel and protect your vehicle without needing a concealed carry license. You do have to keep the weapon out of sight still.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:09 PM   #87
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Yeah, the wording seems so vague (FL) that it's almost asking for situations like this one to pop up. People have a right to bear arms, but they don't have a right to act like morons and sociopaths.
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Old 04-17-2012, 02:01 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Bone View Post
Yeah, actually reading the Texas Castle Doctrine SB 378, ours has a provision in which you cannot have started the fight. It's actually brought up twice in close proximity.

The wording, buried in Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON:
a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(1) if the actor [he] would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31 [justifications established in prior section]; and [other reasons and conditions, then:]
(2)did not provoke the person against whom the force was used

then later:
(c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at the time the deadly force is used is not required to retreat before using deadly force as described by this section.

This newer version of the bill, enacted in 2007, also extended the "castle" to your vehicle, so you can travel and protect your vehicle without needing a concealed carry license. You do have to keep the weapon out of sight still.
That seems like an infinitely better law than whatever they vomited up in Florida.

Its almost like legislators in Texas actually thought about what they wrote. Someone actually said, "Whoa, we don't want people chasing folks down, starting shit and then shooting them, that would be fucking insane," and acted accordingly.
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:06 AM   #89
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Like voodoo, I also happen to live in Florida and I think we've been hearing about this constantly since Feb. An unfortuante series of events and a tradgedy. It will be a while befoe this whole mess unravels.

As far as the whole syg law is in florida, the way it's interpretted is similar to the texas law. Whether that's the actual wording I don't know. In order to enact syg, you can not be the provoker and verbal attacks or confrontations are not enough to justify syg. So far, the only thing we know for sure is that zimmerman exercised poor judgement in continuing to follow Martin. If events turn out to be what zimmerman claims in court, does the fact that he was following martin justify martin responding with physical force? No. in that case I believe syg would be justified on zimmermans part. If zimmerman turned out to ge the agressor then he deserves to go to jail.

What infuriates me most about this whole thing is the media circus. From their creative editing of the 911 and cell phone calls to continuing to post a 5 year old picture of martin, all the media has done is work people into a frenzy.

On a side note, has anyone heard about the elderly couple who can't live in their house because dumb fuck spike lee posted their address on his twitter account as being zimmeran's? Turns out my parents knew them when we used to live in ohio. Unfortunately for them they are no relation to zimmerman but no longer feel safe living in their home due to the number of death threats and hate mail they have received at spike lee's instigation. It it was me, he'd be buying me a new house. Im not sure, but isn't releasing someone's personal information on the internet for the purposes of instigating violence/ harassment against the law?
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:34 AM   #90
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On a side note, has anyone heard about the elderly couple who can't live in their house because dumb fuck spike lee posted their address on his twitter account as being zimmeran's? Turns out my parents knew them when we used to live in ohio. Unfortunately for them they are no relation to zimmerman but no longer feel safe living in their home due to the number of death threats and hate mail they have received at spike lee's instigation. It it was me, he'd be buying me a new house. Im not sure, but isn't releasing someone's personal information on the internet for the purposes of instigating violence/ harassment against the law?
Spike Lee already settled with them.
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:45 AM   #91
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Spike Lee already settled with them.
That's actually refreshing to hear. Usually when you get stories like that one, it's rare anything is done for the affected when they were never at fault for anything other than some over zealous vigilante-type thinking they were doing 'a just thing'
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:53 AM   #92
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Spike Lee already settled with them.
Oh so it's ok then...

God forbid someone get his information and put it on the KKK mailing list.
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:59 AM   #93
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Oh so it's ok then...

God forbid someone get his information and put it on the KKK mailing list.
Why put him on the KKK list when you can just tweet it yourself?

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Some Twitter members have been sending Lee angry and often racist tweets in response to his sharing of the address, many of which he has retweeted.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:17 AM   #94
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I've always been on the fence about Spike Lee. The man stands by his convictions even when they are really abrasive, but there's this often overlooked humble side to him, and he can admit when he's wrong and make right by it.

I'm not condoning it...even if it WAS Zimmerman's address, it's just trying to cause violence/trouble...but the fact he made reparations when he honestly didn't really have to do much more than 'Oh shit, wrong address #mybad' is good.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:27 AM   #95
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Dood's an asshole. He has about as much conviction as Al Sharpton. He's a racist and an opportunist. He occasionally makes a decent movie, whoop-fuckity-doo. Piss on him; he sucks.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:29 AM   #96
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Dood's an asshole. He has about as much conviction as Al Sharpton. He's a racist and an opportunist. He occasionally makes a decent movie, whoop-fuckity-doo. Piss on him; he sucks.

I don't think sharpton has shown up yet, although if he does, we'll have a trifeca. Jesse Jackson was down here a couple weeks ago. Guess he needed some tv time.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:34 AM   #97
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I've always been on the fence about Spike Lee. The man stands by his convictions even when they are really abrasive, but there's this often overlooked humble side to him, and he can admit when he's wrong and make right by it.
Fuck Spike Lee, he's the black Mel Gibson.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:53 AM   #98
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I don't think sharpton has shown up yet, although if he does, we'll have a trifeca. Jesse Jackson was down here a couple weeks ago. Guess he needed some tv time.
Sharpton has already shown up in Sanford. Also, regarding the tweeting of addresses, Zimmerman's real parents address was also sent out via twitter.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:53 AM   #99
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Fuck Spike Lee, he's the black Mel Gibson.
Except Mel actually makes movies people pay to see! HEYOOO!!

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Old 04-18-2012, 11:11 AM   #100
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Yeah, I recall hearing about that Spike Lee thing too. Good he settled, but still doesn't make good on mouthing off incorrect info and basically ruining that couples whole life.

How they even going to sell that house? "This is a lovely 4 bedroom detached house, and this unique little number comes with it's own hate mob outside and piles of fresh mail every morning, great for kindling."
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