SWTOR Question

bean · 04-08-2012, 09:15 PM

So have they added a "Dungeon Finder" type LFG-tool yet, and, if not, when are they planning to add it?

I play MMOs with my brother and a few fun guys that we liked enough to play multiple games with and they have all said they won't be back until this is added in.

I thought the Legacy System would be more stuff like the rocket boots (that let you move fast on a lowbie character). The whole unlocking a skill you only use during rare heroic moments bit is not all that interesting. . . most classes already have a million skills to use that are probably going to be better than those, and I already don't have enough hotbars for all of my skills, so I won't use them anyway. What I want is stuff like WoW's legacy gear that is basically a superior blue-slot item for every level and also gives you an xp boost. Also, ironically, the only easy place to dock is your side's fleet, so putting mail slots and an auction house on my ship isn't that big of a deal. Plus, it sounds like they are making you use the shared auction house on ships, so there won't be anything on it.

Deadend · 04-08-2012, 10:35 PM

I think I remember someone asking about a Dungeon Finder and Bioware's guy said they didn't have one because they wanted people to communicate with each other. I think it was an MMO panel at PAX East last year?

Either way, I like dungeon tools because spamming LFG sucks. I also can't remember if SWTOR had the ability to get info on people via clicking their name in chat.

Zecon · 04-09-2012, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadend

I also can't remember if SWTOR had the ability to get info on people via clicking their name in chat.

Nope, you have to search the name.
I hope they do add the WoW lfg tool, because this game feels too much like a single player game to warrant a $15 monthly fee.
Im having alot of fun with the game, but the amount of time I spend as a healer LFG on a heavily populated server is a little nuts.
Right now Im just trying to level to 50 to see if its any better.

bean · 04-09-2012, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deadend

I think [Bioware isn't planning an LFG tool]

My brother found a recent announcement where they've said they are planning on adding an LFG tool "soon" but it will be for each server instead of cross-server, so I'm not sure how much it will help.

Quote:

Either way, I like dungeon tools because spamming LFG sucks..

Agreed. I'm surprised they didn't know this was a must-have. I asked for it in my beta feedback all the time.

Farsight · 04-09-2012, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bean

So have they added a "Dungeon Finder" type LFG-tool yet, and, if not, when are they planning to add it?

Wait... you quit?

I'm guessing the old TOR thread would have a different tone these days.

bean · 04-10-2012, 12:35 PM

@Farsight - My brother, a few friends, and I migrate between all the MMOs. Right now, we are back playing WoW for a bit. LFR was a nice addition, but they only have it working for 2 raids (the ones with good loot, so that's cool, but you can't use it to see the raids that were popular when we weren't playing like we hoped, so it doesn't add as much to the game as we'd hoped. Still, it is nice.

We are considering which game to go to next and The Old Republic is a top-contender and a clear-winner if it has a Dungeon Finder - we may go back to play alts up to max-level but the addition of an endgame could get us to stay until Guild Wars 2 comes out (and it will make us much more likely to come back each time too). Everyone wants to play Warhammer Online, but the problem with that is even with just one server, the population is tiny now and you can only get scenrarios (battlegrounds basically) to pop at tier 4 - which sucks because this puts you against rank 40's in endgame gear who rape your face.

The other consideration is DDO, but it's making it's way out of the rotation. Though it's a great game, they never made the endgame any fun. You need to go on raids that really suck to be honest. The DDO universe is great with small groups and very quickly just an awful shitty mess in raids. Then you get items from these raids that are used to make ridiculously powerful gear that a lot of players already have because they've been playing forever, so there is a wide gulf between new players and old ones. So you run about as the little "me too" ass-dumpling of a great hero. I just sucks, so we don't play it and instead just roll new characters up. The problem with that is that I've played a rogue, a mage, a cleric, and a bard/warrior (advanced trip build with song bonuses - basically sings to give buffs to party and then kills shit with an axe while using trip to knock everything on it's ass. . . also lots of UMD for wand slinging as needed).

So, since TOR doesn't have a patch out and we are lukewarm on stuff, we may just wait until Diablo III and see if TOR has a Dungeon Finder in June/July (depending on how good D3 is).

Shieldmaiden · 04-10-2012, 12:42 PM

I get not wanting to include LFG tools that automate to the degree of the ones in WoW. In BigJonno's Ideal MMORPG, there wouldn't be a LFG tool. However, BigJonno's Ideal MMORPG wouldn't be a linear, single-player levelling treadmill with raids bunged on the end.

bean · 04-10-2012, 01:08 PM

@BigJonno - Why not? I don't thinking spamming LFG to get group members is fun. Do you? I don't understand why automating something as boring as spamming LFG chat is a bad thing? They don't automate the fun and challenging parts of running dungeons - just the boring spam.

Deadend · 04-11-2012, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bean

@BigJonno - Why not? I don't thinking spamming LFG to get group members is fun. Do you? I don't understand why automating something as boring as spamming LFG chat is a bad thing? They don't automate the fun and challenging parts of running dungeons - just the boring spam.

I think the ideal situation is a tool that makes it easier to meet and be willing to work with other players. A reputation rating system, useful stats to judge players on, basically a public character facebook wall/yelp page. Not automating being in a group, I've seen people run dungeons with groups with almost no communication and they were all strangers.

What I want is interaction with other players that is more meaningful than everyone just turns into cogs of a loot machine, systems to help make friends in the game and long term allies.

There is also the matter of how the world works in most MMOs where everything is based around the same concept as Final Fantasy 1, where players all start in Easy Land and over time travel to LEVEL 50-LAND where everyone ends up clustered.
It causes the lower level areas to be seen as just stepping stones and not areas in their own rights. I do not like the "endgame" focus of MMOs and although it was a cool idea when (the first time I noticed it) EverQuest did it, it has now become the way that almost every MMO does it with most of the game being considered a tutorial that lasts hundreds of hours.

It's a fundamental issue of the game design that many other problems people have springs out of.

Even with my issues on the matter, I still have a strong feeling I will be checking out both The Secret World and Guild Wars 2 when they hit, and also bitch about how I wish it had a group-finder tool that did all the work and also bitch about how it removes social interaction.

bean · 04-11-2012, 01:21 PM

@Deadend - Over and over again, you love to talk about how MMOs don't innovate, and over and over again, I tell you, "We heard you already. It's ridiculous to think that MMOs should completely reinvent their genre all the time when no other genre is expected to do this. You are discounting all of the smaller innovations that make one game within a genre different from another game within the genre." We've had that discussion at least 5 times, so why repeat it endlessly?

If you want to make a more innovative MMO and have ideas about how to do that, you should make a new thread that is about that. I'll probably read it and respond to it (especially if you have actual ideas how to do it instead of just vague complaints), but repeating your same post in every SWTOR thread is obnoxious.

Also, I think your idea for a group-finder that is like Facebook is a terrible idea (no offense intended). I already have friends and I make new ones in game all the time. These are the people who were fun to be around. I don't need some weird in-game social media to help me find fun people. . . what I need is an automated tool to help me find a tank, healer, or dps when I don't have enough friends online to fill a group.

Shieldmaiden · 04-11-2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bean

@BigJonno - Why not? I don't thinking spamming LFG to get group members is fun. Do you? I don't understand why automating something as boring as spamming LFG chat is a bad thing? They don't automate the fun and challenging parts of running dungeons - just the boring spam.

The ideal group member in a WoW dungeon run knows the dungeon, knows their role and trusts you to know yours. Anything less becomes a hassle as you have to spend time talking them through some aspect of the game. What this means is that whenever you hit that dungeon finder, you're hoping for someone you don't actually have to interact with. You may as well be playing with a bot.

The point of a MMORPG is that you're playing with lots of other people. If the other people are so interchangeable that you can automatically and effectively group up for dungeons with the push of a button, then the game has failed on a fundamental design level.

It is, in my opinion, the single most disappointing part of modern gaming. When I first read about Ultima Online all those years ago, my mind was well and truly blown. Somewhere along the line, the dream of creating virtual worlds full of thousands of people has been discarded in favour of creating levelling treadmills and exercises in loot gathering, all in aid of chasing a bigger number.

Zecon · 04-11-2012, 02:26 PM

Well you would still have the option to kick people, plus it would come in handy when your 1 short and the party dissolves because you arent able to fill it. It has happened to me more than a few times so far.

bean · 04-11-2012, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJonno

The ideal group member in a WoW dungeon run knows the dungeon, knows their role and trusts you to know yours. Anything less becomes a hassle as you have to spend time talking them through some aspect of the game. What this means is that whenever you hit that dungeon finder, you're hoping for someone you don't actually have to interact with. You may as well be playing with a bot.

Bots would be fine with me.

I'm serious actually. I like playing MMORPGs with friends and making friends through my guild, but I never ran a dungeon with people and then made friends with them. Much more often, I'd have to run a dungeon with someone I couldn't stand. . . some elitist power-gamer who wants to be my friend because I can dps really well and then thinks I want to hear about every new piece of gear he gets and how high his dps was or how he tanked X.

I want to choose to be social with people in the game who I like, and I want to do group content with them. The people I like aren't always online, or may not be the class we need to fill a group. Being able to find some other person without having to spam LFG (because that's the reality. . . you are spamming LFG for a stranger, not making new friends in a tavern or some other business) is awesome.

Either way, the PUG you picked up from spamming LFG or having a tool find him/her for you will probably be quiet the whole time because he/she is on her ventrilo with her real friends that aren't in your group.

Plus, if you get a bad player (which you can get from LFG spam too, just after a whole lot more effort), you have to kick them and then go out of the dungeon to get someone else.

Quote:

The point of a MMORPG is that you're playing with lots of other people. If the other people are so interchangeable that you can automatically and effectively group up for dungeons with the push of a button, then the game has failed on a fundamental design level.

Yick. You are talking about designing a game that forces you to be social with people you don't know. The early MMO designers were big into this and had all kinds of areas with forced grouping. After the Final Fantasy MMO (spent like 4 months there), I swore I'd never do that again. If you want that though, there are Eastern MMOs that require this. It's a vastly different way of designing MMOs, and one that I hate, but I don't resent you guys for having fun with them. I did make deeper friendships in that game. . . but I also got harassed to play all the time because I was a white mage. Also, they put you in the same servers as the Japanese, and the language barrier made it really hard to play with them, so you were group-limited AND you had only a few American players to group with. . . we all got to know each other pretty fast . Plus they had ruined the market because they all had high level characters and would buy up low level gear for high amounts for their low level jobs.

Going further back, I remember Asheron's Call 2 had both solo and group mobs with much better rewards from group mobs. The game was so unpopular that we all pretty much knew each other there too.

*shrugs*

I don't know. Maybe you have a point. All I can tell you is that since Dungeon Finder came out, I don't have fun at the endgame when games don't have it. If that's the case, they better be a lot of fun to roll alts in or I'm moving on.

Shieldmaiden · 04-12-2012, 03:25 AM

I don't like being forced to group either, it's just as big an indication of flawed design as interchangeable group members. My two favourite MMOs are Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies. I admit that it's been a long time since I played them, but I don't remember being stuck for something to do or forced to team up with people I didn't like in either game. I worked towards things that I wanted to achieve or did things that were fun. Sometimes I did it alone, sometimes with friends.

I really want to see more sandbox MMOs with no levels, multiple progression paths and no artificial restriction of content. Want to go and get your newbie butt kicked by a dragon? Go for it. Want to take your newbie friend with you when you go and kill a dragon so he can get phat lewtz? Go for it.

It's not like this stuff hasn't been done before. Someone just needs to look at UO and decide to do the same sort of thing, but better. It's a fifteen year old game, it shouldn't be that hard to improve on.

Farsight · 04-12-2012, 05:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJonno

I really want to see more sandbox MMOs with no levels, multiple progression paths and no artificial restriction of content.

You might want to take a look at The Secret World. Pretty sure I'll be giving it a shot. It sounds different enough to at least be worth a month.

They already 'teased' the next update for TOR... another dungeon and another raid. Yawn. Someone promise to make a thread if they ever announce a true expansion to the class stories. That's the only thing that's going to get my interest.

bean · 04-12-2012, 08:08 AM

@Farsight - the big thing in the next update is not just the new content, but the Legacy System. It allows you to get rocket boots to move faster at low levels, a mail box and auction house guy on your ship, and you can equip your ship's robot to be good at whatever craft you want him to do. The movement ability at low levels is the only thing I'm really excited about there. . . honestly, I was hoping for heirloom gear that gives you excellent gear that levels up with you like in WoW (until max level when it compares poorly with endgame loot).

Another big thing is that the UI will be customizable (finally able to get rid of the obnoxious, large menu up top).

It also let's you give abilities to other characters during their heroic moment. . . so if your grandad is a Sith Lord, then during your every 30 minute heroic moment, you can have your smuggler force choke someone. Kind of dumb IMO as it happens so rarely that I won't bother putting it on my action bar. You can also use races that you've leveled to 50 for any class, which I also find uninteresting, but whatever, I like humans anyway.

So unless I hear really good things, I'm waiting for 1.3 which will hopefully have a Dungeon Finder.

bean · 04-12-2012, 08:15 AM

@BigJonno - You might like City of Heroes/Villains. It modifies the difficulty of content based on the size of your team. There are still task forces that require a full team, but you don't have to do them. Completing Task Forces will get you the loot you want more quickly, but you can do whatever you like to jut earn "gold" that can be used to buy items from other players on the auction house.

It's free-to-play now too, so you can try it without any risk.

Mashidar · 04-12-2012, 08:18 AM

You know the whole spamming lfg in the station killed the fun I had for SWTOR. It's a minor thing I'm sure but waiting for over an hour to get into a group as a healer was a pain, and that was a short wait mind you. Made me think of my days in FFIX when I had to get into a party in the dunes. *shivers*

I really wanted to like SWTOR, but in the end I just didn't like the little things they were missing that other games had. I'll give it a few more patches then try it again. The Legacy system does not really pull me back I'm afraid.

Zecon · 04-12-2012, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mashidar

You know the whole spamming lfg in the station killed the fun I had for SWTOR. It's a minor thing I'm sure but waiting for over an hour to get into a group as a healer was a pain, and that was a short wait mind you. Made me think of my days in FFIX when I had to get into a party in the dunes. *shivers*

I really wanted to like SWTOR, but in the end I just didn't like the little things they were missing that other games had. I'll give it a few more patches then try it again. The Legacy system does not really pull me back I'm afraid.

Yeah, after reading the patch notes, I have to say there really isnt much for anyone who isnt lvl 50. I'll play through the weekend with 1.2, but I don't think Im going to continue my subscription past the free month because I feel like this is a single player grind to 50 game. The story I've experienced has left me underwhelmed to the point where I just don't care about it anymore, and while I really enjoyed the flashpoints I have played, those are so few and far between that I find myself dedicating hours a day to sitting on the fleet just so I can spam LFG in hopes I can find a party.

FreyaHawk · 04-13-2012, 09:21 AM

I've been playing SWTOR since pre-release and I can honestly say that I have not run even a single flashpoint or group quest... I am a sad and lonely adventurer that suffers from a severe case of alt-itis. I also only play when no one else is on due to working night shift.

A LFG tool might allow me the opportunity to actually experience some of this content since I am not a fan of sitting on the fleet wasting my time watching for LFG posts. I could quest and stuff and when a group pops on LFG yay!

I'd be quite happy if they introduced this option. However I'm not upset over it not being there right now. I'll just run about doing my quests and leveling my alts. Problem is, when all of my alts have hit 50, I'll be a sad panda.

04-08-2012, 09:15 PM	#1
bean Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,940	SWTOR Question So have they added a "Dungeon Finder" type LFG-tool yet, and, if not, when are they planning to add it? I play MMOs with my brother and a few fun guys that we liked enough to play multiple games with and they have all said they won't be back until this is added in. I thought the Legacy System would be more stuff like the rocket boots (that let you move fast on a lowbie character). The whole unlocking a skill you only use during rare heroic moments bit is not all that interesting. . . most classes already have a million skills to use that are probably going to be better than those, and I already don't have enough hotbars for all of my skills, so I won't use them anyway. What I want is stuff like WoW's legacy gear that is basically a superior blue-slot item for every level and also gives you an xp boost. Also, ironically, the only easy place to dock is your side's fleet, so putting mail slots and an auction house on my ship isn't that big of a deal. Plus, it sounds like they are making you use the shared auction house on ships, so there won't be anything on it.

04-11-2012, 01:21 PM	#10
bean Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,940	@Deadend - Over and over again, you love to talk about how MMOs don't innovate, and over and over again, I tell you, "We heard you already. It's ridiculous to think that MMOs should completely reinvent their genre all the time when no other genre is expected to do this. You are discounting all of the smaller innovations that make one game within a genre different from another game within the genre." We've had that discussion at least 5 times, so why repeat it endlessly? If you want to make a more innovative MMO and have ideas about how to do that, you should make a new thread that is about that. I'll probably read it and respond to it (especially if you have actual ideas how to do it instead of just vague complaints), but repeating your same post in every SWTOR thread is obnoxious. Also, I think your idea for a group-finder that is like Facebook is a terrible idea (no offense intended). I already have friends and I make new ones in game all the time. These are the people who were fun to be around. I don't need some weird in-game social media to help me find fun people. . . what I need is an automated tool to help me find a tank, healer, or dps when I don't have enough friends online to fill a group. Last edited by bean; 04-11-2012 at 01:24 PM.

04-11-2012, 02:26 PM	#12
Zecon Colonist Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 1,324	Well you would still have the option to kick people, plus it would come in handy when your 1 short and the party dissolves because you arent able to fill it. It has happened to me more than a few times so far. __________________ Xbox 360: Zecon

04-12-2012, 08:18 AM	#18
Mashidar <3 for Dal Dal Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Evans, CO Posts: 624	You know the whole spamming lfg in the station killed the fun I had for SWTOR. It's a minor thing I'm sure but waiting for over an hour to get into a group as a healer was a pain, and that was a short wait mind you. Made me think of my days in FFIX when I had to get into a party in the dunes. shivers I really wanted to like SWTOR, but in the end I just didn't like the little things they were missing that other games had. I'll give it a few more patches then try it again. The Legacy system does not really pull me back I'm afraid. __________________ Xbox Live Gamertag:Mashidar Steam: Mashidar League of Legends: Mashidar

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04-08-2012, 10:35 PM	#2
Deadend Done Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Detroit Area, MI Posts: 4,175 Blog Entries: 2	I think I remember someone asking about a Dungeon Finder and Bioware's guy said they didn't have one because they wanted people to communicate with each other. I think it was an MMO panel at PAX East last year? Either way, I like dungeon tools because spamming LFG sucks. I also can't remember if SWTOR had the ability to get info on people via clicking their name in chat.

04-10-2012, 12:35 PM	#6
bean Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,940	@Farsight - My brother, a few friends, and I migrate between all the MMOs. Right now, we are back playing WoW for a bit. LFR was a nice addition, but they only have it working for 2 raids (the ones with good loot, so that's cool, but you can't use it to see the raids that were popular when we weren't playing like we hoped, so it doesn't add as much to the game as we'd hoped. Still, it is nice. We are considering which game to go to next and The Old Republic is a top-contender and a clear-winner if it has a Dungeon Finder - we may go back to play alts up to max-level but the addition of an endgame could get us to stay until Guild Wars 2 comes out (and it will make us much more likely to come back each time too). Everyone wants to play Warhammer Online, but the problem with that is even with just one server, the population is tiny now and you can only get scenrarios (battlegrounds basically) to pop at tier 4 - which sucks because this puts you against rank 40's in endgame gear who rape your face. The other consideration is DDO, but it's making it's way out of the rotation. Though it's a great game, they never made the endgame any fun. You need to go on raids that really suck to be honest. The DDO universe is great with small groups and very quickly just an awful shitty mess in raids. Then you get items from these raids that are used to make ridiculously powerful gear that a lot of players already have because they've been playing forever, so there is a wide gulf between new players and old ones. So you run about as the little "me too" ass-dumpling of a great hero. I just sucks, so we don't play it and instead just roll new characters up. The problem with that is that I've played a rogue, a mage, a cleric, and a bard/warrior (advanced trip build with song bonuses - basically sings to give buffs to party and then kills shit with an axe while using trip to knock everything on it's ass. . . also lots of UMD for wand slinging as needed). So, since TOR doesn't have a patch out and we are lukewarm on stuff, we may just wait until Diablo III and see if TOR has a Dungeon Finder in June/July (depending on how good D3 is).

04-10-2012, 01:08 PM	#8
bean Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,940	@BigJonno - Why not? I don't thinking spamming LFG to get group members is fun. Do you? I don't understand why automating something as boring as spamming LFG chat is a bad thing? They don't automate the fun and challenging parts of running dungeons - just the boring spam.

04-12-2012, 08:08 AM	#16
bean Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,940	@Farsight - the big thing in the next update is not just the new content, but the Legacy System. It allows you to get rocket boots to move faster at low levels, a mail box and auction house guy on your ship, and you can equip your ship's robot to be good at whatever craft you want him to do. The movement ability at low levels is the only thing I'm really excited about there. . . honestly, I was hoping for heirloom gear that gives you excellent gear that levels up with you like in WoW (until max level when it compares poorly with endgame loot). Another big thing is that the UI will be customizable (finally able to get rid of the obnoxious, large menu up top). It also let's you give abilities to other characters during their heroic moment. . . so if your grandad is a Sith Lord, then during your every 30 minute heroic moment, you can have your smuggler force choke someone. Kind of dumb IMO as it happens so rarely that I won't bother putting it on my action bar. You can also use races that you've leveled to 50 for any class, which I also find uninteresting, but whatever, I like humans anyway. So unless I hear really good things, I'm waiting for 1.3 which will hopefully have a Dungeon Finder.

04-12-2012, 08:15 AM	#17
bean Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,940	@BigJonno - You might like City of Heroes/Villains. It modifies the difficulty of content based on the size of your team. There are still task forces that require a full team, but you don't have to do them. Completing Task Forces will get you the loot you want more quickly, but you can do whatever you like to jut earn "gold" that can be used to buy items from other players on the auction house. It's free-to-play now too, so you can try it without any risk.

04-13-2012, 09:21 AM	#20
FreyaHawk Colonist Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Edmonton, AB Posts: 33	I've been playing SWTOR since pre-release and I can honestly say that I have not run even a single flashpoint or group quest... I am a sad and lonely adventurer that suffers from a severe case of alt-itis. I also only play when no one else is on due to working night shift. A LFG tool might allow me the opportunity to actually experience some of this content since I am not a fan of sitting on the fleet wasting my time watching for LFG posts. I could quest and stuff and when a group pops on LFG yay! I'd be quite happy if they introduced this option. However I'm not upset over it not being there right now. I'll just run about doing my quests and leveling my alts. Problem is, when all of my alts have hit 50, I'll be a sad panda.