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View Poll Results: Who will win the 2012 Republican nomination?
Mitt Romney 24 36.36%
Sarah Palin 13 19.70%
John Thune 0 0%
Mitch Daniels 1 1.52%
Tim Pawlenty 1 1.52%
Haley Barbour 0 0%
Mike Huckabee 4 6.06%
Newt Gingrich 3 4.55%
John Huntsman 2 3.03%
Other 18 27.27%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-01-2012, 02:29 AM   #2341
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Originally Posted by TheFlyingOrc View Post
Umm...unless he's lying about the quote, he's got a very legitimate gripe against that reporter.

Also, yes, I'm sure the N-word was on his probably-definitely prewritten speech, not that his words got jumbled.

and counterpoint:
Clearly he was going to say Junior partner at a law firm until he had a sudden idea to go lower down the totem poll. Janitor is surely lower than junior partner.
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:03 AM   #2342
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This is a bit of rhetoric that people just can't back up. While Medicare has some people stealing, it also has is handled appropriately 99% of the time. Plus, there are plenty of examples of government agencies that work well like the US Postal Service.

Sure, the military is a huge list of ridiculous boondoggles, but that's part of why we should gut it in order to improve our nation's infrastructure.

Also, the fact that high-speed rail would lose money is a given. It would be an enormous expense that lowers other enormous expenses like the costs to individuals who use cars to travel, construction and repair of major highways, and ensuring our ability to travel at an affordable price in a world with ever-increasing oil scarcity. It would also lower the need for highway patrolmen, so we could cut that budget too and get those guys handing out tickets working on something useful like laying high-speed rail.
You know, aside from merely parroting the same hopes and dreams every liberal has about high-speed rail in the USA lowering other expenses when it simply does not actually ever work out that way in reality (fact, rail travel is in steady decline year after year after year because other means are simply more cost effective and efficient despite legislative handicaps like the TSA and insisting on funding rail boondoggles instead of the roads where everyone actually travels), you shouldn't tout Medicare as a success and give numbers when the fraud rate for Medicare is actually around 10% (criminally high - credit cards are a fraction of a percent in comparison) and it pays out about 60 billion per year as of 2011 in improper payments. Additionally, they spent $77 million on anti-fraud measures that have saved around $7000. Yeah, a riveting example of government efficiency.

Also the USPS is so successful because it operates at a massive financial loss year after year with frightening unfunded retirement obligations for it's ridiculous pension schemes right? Please, there's one thing to have a lot of faith in government services, but using the USPS as an example is just straight up comedy.
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:06 AM   #2343
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Originally Posted by MagGnome View Post
How exactly do you propose that private businesses build high-speed rail without owning the land? Will they just be able to build it wherever they please?
Either work out a public-private partnership to do it where government leases the land but the company funds and runs the railroad entirely, or even better government should just sell the land. Government has no reason to own the absurd amount of land that it does anyway (I think the stat is like 98% of land in the US is technically owned by Uncle Sam). Let someone do something useful for society with it, and pay down the debt in the process.
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Old 04-01-2012, 08:48 AM   #2344
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lol. You don't even get your facts from real news websites. If you are getting your information from propaganda websites that don't even attempt to pretend that they are "fair and balanced" then you are going to get garbage in, garbage out.

No one is going to take you seriously if you quote websites with a GOP agenda anymore than someone would take a liberal person's opinions seriously if they got their facts from The Daily Show. You come off as a nutjob whose opinion can't be trusted because you suckle at the propaganda teat.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:57 AM   #2345
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Right. They aren't a news organization because you don't like what they report on, even though it is a study straight from http://www.gao.gov.

Seems to me it's more like someone else needs to stop throwing accusations about others and come to terms with their own reality-impairing agenda, but I digress. Clearly, something someone disagrees with and because they often contest common misconceptions about public policy effects (e.g.: just because you want something to be some way doesn't mean it will end up that way) can simply not be trusted. El Oh El indeed.

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Old 04-01-2012, 12:04 PM   #2346
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Right. They aren't a news organization because you don't like what they report on. . .
A news organization reports the news. A propaganda website reports political opinions from one side of the political spectrum to indoctrinate true believers. Also, if the report is from the GAO, then link it from the GAO. You are just saying it is from there and linking the front page.

You honestly think you can be persuasive while linking propaganda websites?

Look, I vote both Republican and Democrat because I'm a libertarian (not an anarchist like the nutjob libertarians) and neither party truly encapsulates my values, but you are never going to persuade me that you are right by pointing at propaganda. The fact that YOU read it embarrasses me for you, and the idea that you think that linking to that sort of thing would be persuasive is ludicrous.

Last edited by bean; 04-01-2012 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 04-01-2012, 12:11 PM   #2347
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Originally Posted by bean View Post
A news organization reports the news. A propaganda website reports political opinions from one side of the political spectrum to indoctrinate true believers. Also, if the report is from the GAO, then link it from the GAO. You are just saying it is from there and linking the front page.

You honestly think you can be persuasive while linking propaganda websites?

Look, I vote both Republican and Democrat because I'm a libertarian (not an anarchist like the nutjob libertarians) and neither party truly encapsulates my values, but you are never going to persuade me that you are right by pointing at propaganda. The fact that YOU read it embarrasses me for you, and the idea that you think that linking to that sort of thing would be persuasive is ludicrous.
Thank you for proving you didn't even go to or read the original links I posted. You see, there are these things call links and citations that come in the form of hyperlinks sprinkled throughout a news article.

Additionally, a source that regularly covers and advocates for ending the war on drugs, legalizing gay marriage, closing guantanamo and ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and was utterly relentless in their criticism of the Bush administration about as far from a propaganda website for the GOP as you can get. They aren't like the Daily Kos, who as soon as Obama came into power completely gave up on being critical of executive power.

They don't change their message just because a party is in or out of favor, but that would take the time to put some thought into what you're claiming which you clearly don't seem to want to do.

Additionally if you're calling yourself a libertarian without realizing that Reason Magazine is essentially the largest voice for libertarians for the past 40 years you have a lot of work to do.

The only one you're embarrassing by blatantly failing to read the originally linked article is you.

Last edited by jeffbax; 04-01-2012 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 04-01-2012, 12:44 PM   #2348
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Old 04-01-2012, 12:45 PM   #2349
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:33 PM   #2350
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Originally Posted by jeffbax View Post
fraud rate for Medicare is actually around 10% (criminally high - credit cards are a fraction of a percent in comparison)
While you're comparing apples to oranges, what's the fraud rate at used car lots?
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:54 PM   #2351
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Santorum probably has some retarded group that counts Social Security as part of the budget (it actually pays INTO the budget rather than taking from it).
What?????



http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expen...federal_budget
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:57 PM   #2352
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The money still has to be paid out to run Social Security even if it brings back more than the government has to spend.
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:01 PM   #2353
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The money still has to be paid out to run Social Security even if it brings back more than the government has to spend.
Oh, is that what he was getting at? And yes, what Panthera said.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:11 PM   #2354
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Originally Posted by jeffbax View Post
You know, aside from merely parroting the same hopes and dreams every liberal has about high-speed rail in the USA lowering other expenses when it simply does not actually ever work out that way in reality (fact, rail travel is in steady decline year after year after year because other means are simply more cost effective and efficient despite legislative handicaps like the TSA and insisting on funding rail boondoggles instead of the roads where everyone actually travels), you shouldn't tout Medicare as a success and give numbers when the fraud rate for Medicare is actually around 10% (criminally high - credit cards are a fraction of a percent in comparison) and it pays out about 60 billion per year as of 2011 in improper payments. Additionally, they spent $77 million on anti-fraud measures that have saved around $7000. Yeah, a riveting example of government efficiency.

Also the USPS is so successful because it operates at a massive financial loss year after year with frightening unfunded retirement obligations for it's ridiculous pension schemes right? Please, there's one thing to have a lot of faith in government services, but using the USPS as an example is just straight up comedy.
Get your quotes right. "and nearly 10 percent of that spending was improper for some reason, including fraud" was the article on reason. Not 10% fraud.

Please do good research before trying to post facts or just stick to throwing opinions like the rest of us, as I'd rather read opinions than faked up facts.

A good chunk of their losses seem to be in the form of being overcharged by private companies, and other things.. nowhere near 10% of fraudulent actions.

Last edited by Deadend; 04-01-2012 at 11:57 PM. Reason: bad tone.
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:52 AM   #2355
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Originally Posted by jeffbax View Post
You know, aside from merely parroting the same hopes and dreams every liberal has about high-speed rail in the USA lowering other expenses when it simply does not actually ever work out that way in reality (fact, rail travel is in steady decline year after year after year because other means are simply more cost effective and efficient despite legislative handicaps like the TSA and insisting on funding rail boondoggles instead of the roads where everyone actually travels)...
That's as far as I got because what you wrote is false. Amtrak is seeing an increase in ridership. Amtrak is expensive to run because they have to pay for every mile they run a train on to private rail owners. Their trains also run on diesel.

Also, roads are present everywhere in Germany just as much as they are here, and without speed limits. The difference is that petrol is quite a bit more expensive because it is imported; $8.50 for a gallon in Germany. Their high speed rail (and standard intercity rail) is profitable though.

I think I might make this a separate topic in P&R now so that the pyres may continue here apart of rail discussion

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Old 04-02-2012, 07:45 AM   #2356
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It would be ridiculous to connect every dinky town with high speed rail, and no one is suggesting that we do that. However, there are several potential lines that make a lot of sense and would see heavy use, such as Minneapolis to Chicago, San Francisco to L.A., etc. The Northeast is the only area that's even somewhat connected by decent passenger rail, and that network should be expanded to other major population centers.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:49 AM   #2357
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Originally Posted by MagGnome View Post
It would be ridiculous to connect every dinky town with high speed rail, and no one is suggesting that we do that. However, there are several potential lines that make a lot of sense and would see heavy use, such as Minneapolis to Chicago, San Francisco to L.A., etc. The Northeast is the only area that's even somewhat connected by decent passenger rail, and that network should be expanded to other major population centers.
They don't even connect every dinky town in countries that have modern intercity rail systems. There is a population requirement for rail stations to be added along a line, though.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:09 AM   #2358
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True, very small towns and villages often have no stations. You have to go with a bus or bike first.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:19 AM   #2359
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My dinky town in the NE has a rail station!! Not much of one mind you, and it is kind of outside of the major population are, but we have one!!
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:46 AM   #2360
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Thank you for proving you didn't even go to or read the original links I posted.'
I did and then I left immediately after laughing at you for reading propaganda sites. Then I cam back here and made fun of you for actually thinking that you could be persuasive when linking fucking propaganda. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that is? It's like a crackhead trying to convince people that crack is great by throwing it at them.

Personally, I read news websites that attempt to cover both sides. They are imperfect, but at least they attempt to be journalists without an agenda. At that point, I make up my own opinion. Obviously, because I'm libertarian, I agree with many of the positions that Reason takes; however, I don't read ANY "news" site that has a political agenda, and I certainly don't like propaganda sites in an attempt to persuade others.
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