XCOM: Enemy Unknown - Page 25

Savok · 10-13-2012, 11:06 AM

Through solid wall (yes it technically missed, next turn exact same thing it was a kill, you can't even fire without a visible target). Every god damn mission it's the same thing.

Zanzibar · 10-13-2012, 12:05 PM

Okay, that's a great example of how the system functions.

Every character occupys a cubic grid space. Only 1 character can occupy any grid space. The system doesn't differentiate whether a guy is crouching or not, the crouch is just an animation.

We had a LoS system that worked with cubes a couple of games ago. Basically, from the 'firing' cube, there's a check from each of its 8 vertices to see if it can see ANY of the 8 vertices of the 'target' cube. If it can, then LoS returns 'true'. It's not perfect, but the alternative is to do a check for each of the bones for each character, which can get procedurally expensive.

So, even though you see that the alien takes up less than a cube, for procedural purposes, they have to figure that one character takes up an entire cube. The animation of 'hiding against the wall' is irrelevant to the LoS calculation. The 'target' cube extends away from the wall, so you're technically seeing the cube, not the target itself.

But that's how the original game worked as well.

Hawkzombie · 10-13-2012, 12:11 PM

I've gotten better at the Original. It's still kicking my ass, however. I dunno whether I like it, or whether I'm annoyed at a game that is so hard and i HAVE to beat it.

Question is, do I cheat to do so?

There are save editors out there, and ways to restart the game with the same level of tech/research you've got and even the same soldiers.

EDIT: I was actually gonna comment on that, Zanz...The original seems to have weird LoS issues too when targeting. I can see a clear path to an alien and I'll have no line of fire. When I move one square up or down, to one thatr LOOKS blocked, I have a clear shot.

Savok · 10-13-2012, 12:50 PM

Funny thing, the alien wasn't actually at that corner. It was another piece of cover further back behind that corner. Why the Sectoid looks even smaller then usual. Corners don't actually seem to exist at all according to game mechanics.

Still, what you're saying is what we see and what the game sees are two entirely different things... that's not really good a thing.

Zanzibar · 10-13-2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savok

Funny thing, the alien wasn't actually at that corner. It was another piece of cover further back behind that corner. Why the Sectoid looks even smaller then usual. Corners don't actually seem to exist at all according to game mechanics.

Still, what you're saying is what we see and what the game sees are two entirely different things... that's not really good a thing.

Yeah, now that you told me about the alien being further back, I see that my diagram is a little off, but I still think that the same left-back-top vertex of the grid cube you're describing that the alien is in has LoS to the left-front-top vertex from the 'firing' grid square of the soldier.

And I agree that with a little more work from the code then they could avoid bugs like this, but I think they opted to keep the feeling of the original game. I'm pretty sure what you're describing is solely part of the 'cinematic firing' routines which weren't part of the original.

RandoM51 · 10-13-2012, 02:39 PM

I started up a normal run after finishing classic. Less challenging but I'm finding it to be more fun simply because I have a lot more freedom and don't have to spend 75% of my turns moving forward a tiny bit trying to uncover just one group.

It also seems to be willing to cluster groups in a way classic didn't. I can hit a small downed saucer and instead of two roaming groups outside and the pilot inside I can find them all in the same room, which is much more entertaining. Of course that would ream you on classic.

icronic · 10-13-2012, 03:49 PM

So I think I may deserve the title of most incompetent commander ever.

Why you ask? Simple... I lost my entire squad of 6 squaddies on the very first turn of a terror mission.

So how did this all happen? Well let me tell you....

After assaulting a very large landed UFO my medbay was packed to the rafters with every single one of my experienced soldiers leaving me with 6 squaddies none of whom had ever stepped foot outside of the base. Not to worry it's on a matter of days before some of my primary squad was back on their feet and ready to jump into action, but alas I did not have days as Germany fell under attack by the aliens.

This was not a threat I could simply ignore as Germany was on the brink of abandoning the Xcom project. The first sign of trouble was when it came time to equip my rookies as the veterans refused to give up their armor (Let's be honest... I forgot).

Touchdown. 6 rookies standing in the middle of a very open street, the only available cover is a building with a glass front, so nice and near I line the first 5 of them up against the building in overwatch mode. Time for the final rookie to make his move, and as he does he spots movement inside the building.... A Cyberdisk. He takes a pot shot and manages to score a hit!

In retaliation the Cyberdisk decides that the best way to deal with the situation is a well placed plasma grenade. It was VERY well placed and dealt 6 damage to everyone. As this point we figured thing's couldn't get much worse, but another Cyberdisk comes around the side of the building, eliciting two reaction shots taking about half it's life. It moves slightly closer earning it another 4 points of damage. Finally it moves right into the middle of my squaddies earning it one last reaction shot which killed it... It then exploded killing everyone.

Germany was not pleased.

zarathstra · 10-13-2012, 03:53 PM

And now I have an actual complaint. Colonel Eva "Thunder" Braun got face killed by a Berserker. No problem, as she ended up critically wounded instead of dead, and there are 2 people with medikits nearby. Unfortunately, she proceeded to fall through the floor and come to rest in empty space. So she hovered there and bled out. Grrrrr

Ink Asylum · 10-13-2012, 04:02 PM

Oh man, Sectopods....

Libuke · 10-13-2012, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ink Asylum

Oh man, Sectopods....

Lost my last game to one of those. Wiped out all my good men (In collusion with other enemies). Every mission after that was just a slaughter for my remaining men.

SilentScreams · 10-13-2012, 04:51 PM

Yep, they're mean. A couple of Heavies with the HEAT ammo will take them down though.

BrassGecko · 10-13-2012, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ink Asylum

Oh man, Sectopods....

I met my first of those and my first Ethereal on the same turn in my first game. That was not good.

AyeEmBored · 10-13-2012, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icronic

Death Story Snipped

All together now...

That's X-Com.

Ink Asylum · 10-13-2012, 05:57 PM

How to stop the intro movies from playing and boot right to the main menu.

Ink Asylum · 10-13-2012, 06:04 PM

So far I've tested 3 of my Mass Effect-named soldiers for psionic powers, Shepard, Tali, and Jacob. Shepard and Jacob have it, Tali doesn't. Amusingly, that matches up to their namesakes. If that keeps happening it'll be great.

jpublic · 10-13-2012, 06:40 PM

Dear cryssalid:

Yes, I understand you are a melee unit, but really, charging a group of 3 guys with plasma weaponry? You expected this to go well?

Dear Assault Majors and Heavy Captain:

Really? All of you miss the over watch?

Dear rookie:

Nice shooting, tex. Show those vets how it's done.

Ink Asylum · 10-13-2012, 07:00 PM

What's the name of the assault skill that gives them a free shot on anyone that gets within 4 squares of them? I fucking love that skill. It's saved lives so many times, and not just for the assault using it. Works great against Chryssalids and Berserkers, too.

The Archangel armor, while not as awesome as I was hoping, is also really useful against melee units. Can't touch this, fuckers!

SilentScreams · 10-13-2012, 07:23 PM

Does everyone here use shotguns on their Assault guys? I ended up ditching them and switching to assault rifles.

BrassGecko · 10-13-2012, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentScreams

Does everyone here use shotguns on their Assault guys? I ended up ditching them and switching to assault rifles.

I use the shotguns, mostly. The laser versions have better range, and laser pistols are a relatively inexpensive backup.

Edit: Yes! Close Quarters Combat or Close Combat Specialist or something.. all of my assaults take that one, no exceptions.

jpublic · 10-13-2012, 07:35 PM

Anything a shotgun can do, an assault rifle does better at longer range.

10-13-2012, 12:05 PM	#482
Zanzibar Colonist Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,823	Okay, that's a great example of how the system functions. Every character occupys a cubic grid space. Only 1 character can occupy any grid space. The system doesn't differentiate whether a guy is crouching or not, the crouch is just an animation. We had a LoS system that worked with cubes a couple of games ago. Basically, from the 'firing' cube, there's a check from each of its 8 vertices to see if it can see ANY of the 8 vertices of the 'target' cube. If it can, then LoS returns 'true'. It's not perfect, but the alternative is to do a check for each of the bones for each character, which can get procedurally expensive. So, even though you see that the alien takes up less than a cube, for procedural purposes, they have to figure that one character takes up an entire cube. The animation of 'hiding against the wall' is irrelevant to the LoS calculation. The 'target' cube extends away from the wall, so you're technically seeing the cube, not the target itself. But that's how the original game worked as well. __________________ The changes... look, I get it, I really do, I even agree they were pointless and stupid, but, we live in a world that made Pearl Harbor, on the scale of hideous inaccuracies compared to source material LOTR barely gets a 1. ~ Savok Last edited by Zanzibar; 10-13-2012 at 12:11 PM.

10-13-2012, 12:11 PM	#483
Hawkzombie The Lord of Shadow Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB Posts: 17,397 Blog Entries: 3	I've gotten better at the Original. It's still kicking my ass, however. I dunno whether I like it, or whether I'm annoyed at a game that is so hard and i HAVE to beat it. Question is, do I cheat to do so? There are save editors out there, and ways to restart the game with the same level of tech/research you've got and even the same soldiers. EDIT: I was actually gonna comment on that, Zanz...The original seems to have weird LoS issues too when targeting. I can see a clear path to an alien and I'll have no line of fire. When I move one square up or down, to one thatr LOOKS blocked, I have a clear shot. __________________ I have a blog. Go read it! PSN/Steam ID - JaynesHat/Hawkzombie There is the crazy HZ and the well refined logic and reasoning HZ. Both are pretty entertaining -Purple Santa I love that Hawk exists to make every decision I make, no matter how self-destructive, look wise by comparison. -Ox I just realized that for the longest time I've been getting you and Karak mixed up. -fitbabits

10-13-2012, 02:39 PM	#486
RandoM51 Peripheral Visionary Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 5,715 Blog Entries: 1	I started up a normal run after finishing classic. Less challenging but I'm finding it to be more fun simply because I have a lot more freedom and don't have to spend 75% of my turns moving forward a tiny bit trying to uncover just one group. It also seems to be willing to cluster groups in a way classic didn't. I can hit a small downed saucer and instead of two roaming groups outside and the pilot inside I can find them all in the same room, which is much more entertaining. Of course that would ream you on classic. __________________ RandoM51 could use a few good gamers to save the Earth from alien invasion.

10-13-2012, 03:49 PM	#487
icronic Colonist Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 216	So I think I may deserve the title of most incompetent commander ever. Why you ask? Simple... I lost my entire squad of 6 squaddies on the very first turn of a terror mission. So how did this all happen? Well let me tell you.... After assaulting a very large landed UFO my medbay was packed to the rafters with every single one of my experienced soldiers leaving me with 6 squaddies none of whom had ever stepped foot outside of the base. Not to worry it's on a matter of days before some of my primary squad was back on their feet and ready to jump into action, but alas I did not have days as Germany fell under attack by the aliens. This was not a threat I could simply ignore as Germany was on the brink of abandoning the Xcom project. The first sign of trouble was when it came time to equip my rookies as the veterans refused to give up their armor (Let's be honest... I forgot). Touchdown. 6 rookies standing in the middle of a very open street, the only available cover is a building with a glass front, so nice and near I line the first 5 of them up against the building in overwatch mode. Time for the final rookie to make his move, and as he does he spots movement inside the building.... A Cyberdisk. He takes a pot shot and manages to score a hit! In retaliation the Cyberdisk decides that the best way to deal with the situation is a well placed plasma grenade. It was VERY well placed and dealt 6 damage to everyone. As this point we figured thing's couldn't get much worse, but another Cyberdisk comes around the side of the building, eliciting two reaction shots taking about half it's life. It moves slightly closer earning it another 4 points of damage. Finally it moves right into the middle of my squaddies earning it one last reaction shot which killed it... It then exploded killing everyone. Germany was not pleased. __________________ GT: icronic

10-13-2012, 03:53 PM	#488
zarathstra Hoary Host of Hoggoth Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Columbia, SC, USA Posts: 1,875	And now I have an actual complaint. Colonel Eva "Thunder" Braun got face killed by a Berserker. No problem, as she ended up critically wounded instead of dead, and there are 2 people with medikits nearby. Unfortunately, she proceeded to fall through the floor and come to rest in empty space. So she hovered there and bled out. Grrrrr __________________ Comics, miniatures, RPG's, video games? Does anyone know how to live without food? Wii: 5005 7050 7436 5446 SSB:B: 1504-9932-5744 XBL: tszarathstra Steam: zarathstra

10-13-2012, 11:06 AM	#481
Savok Vulcan Rage! Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 9,424	Through solid wall (yes it technically missed, next turn exact same thing it was a kill, you can't even fire without a visible target). Every god damn mission it's the same thing.

10-13-2012, 12:50 PM	#484
Savok Vulcan Rage! Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 9,424	Funny thing, the alien wasn't actually at that corner. It was another piece of cover further back behind that corner. Why the Sectoid looks even smaller then usual. Corners don't actually seem to exist at all according to game mechanics. Still, what you're saying is what we see and what the game sees are two entirely different things... that's not really good a thing.

10-13-2012, 04:02 PM	#489
Ink Asylum BEARDWALL! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 22,245	Oh man, Sectopods.... __________________ blog ~ twitter ~ flickr ~ daily sketch

10-13-2012, 04:51 PM	#491
SilentScreams Terran Republic For Life Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Huddersfield, UK Posts: 9,318	Yep, they're mean. A couple of Heavies with the HEAT ammo will take them down though.

10-13-2012, 05:57 PM	#494
Ink Asylum BEARDWALL! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 22,245	How to stop the intro movies from playing and boot right to the main menu. __________________ blog ~ twitter ~ flickr ~ daily sketch

10-13-2012, 06:04 PM	#495
Ink Asylum BEARDWALL! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 22,245	So far I've tested 3 of my Mass Effect-named soldiers for psionic powers, Shepard, Tali, and Jacob. Shepard and Jacob have it, Tali doesn't. Amusingly, that matches up to their namesakes. If that keeps happening it'll be great. __________________ blog ~ twitter ~ flickr ~ daily sketch

10-13-2012, 06:40 PM	#496
jpublic I am the Dangan Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Toontown, Canuckia Posts: 7,930 Blog Entries: 21	Dear cryssalid: Yes, I understand you are a melee unit, but really, charging a group of 3 guys with plasma weaponry? You expected this to go well? Dear Assault Majors and Heavy Captain: Really? All of you miss the over watch? Dear rookie: Nice shooting, tex. Show those vets how it's done. __________________ "We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." --James D. Nicoll "The closest they came [to] Platonic ideas is [using] two paper plates for lunch." --Pale Ale

10-13-2012, 07:00 PM	#497
Ink Asylum BEARDWALL! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 22,245	What's the name of the assault skill that gives them a free shot on anyone that gets within 4 squares of them? I fucking love that skill. It's saved lives so many times, and not just for the assault using it. Works great against Chryssalids and Berserkers, too. The Archangel armor, while not as awesome as I was hoping, is also really useful against melee units. Can't touch this, fuckers! __________________ blog ~ twitter ~ flickr ~ daily sketch

10-13-2012, 07:23 PM	#498
SilentScreams Terran Republic For Life Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Huddersfield, UK Posts: 9,318	Does everyone here use shotguns on their Assault guys? I ended up ditching them and switching to assault rifles.

10-13-2012, 07:35 PM	#500
jpublic I am the Dangan Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Toontown, Canuckia Posts: 7,930 Blog Entries: 21	Anything a shotgun can do, an assault rifle does better at longer range. __________________ "We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." --James D. Nicoll "The closest they came [to] Platonic ideas is [using] two paper plates for lunch." --Pale Ale

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