The Dark Knight Rises (Spoiler Thread)

[muddi900]

Originally Posted by Krispy

You probably already know what this review will read like. Sorry fellas, go ahead and skip it.

Late to the party, but I finally The Dark Knight Rises in glorious 70mm Imax. I wasn't disappointed; I expected it to be mundane and forced. But what I wasn't expecting was the movie to talk down to me so sternly. TDKR was not a movie that generated a synthesis of experience with its audience. It was a movie that told you what to feel and what to believe and kept a fever pitch pace of editing, juggling multiple stories and characters together so quickly that you never have a chance to think about how hollow and shallow the film actually is.

We have to be told when Wayne is heartbroken. We have to be told who Wayne is into. We have to be told that Bane wants to break his spirit. We have to be told what Batman's motivations are. We have to be told when we should feel sad and when we should be hopeless and when we should feel anything at all.

It's a movie that transplants my beloved childhood hero with a brash street brawler who shoots people with a flying tank. It's a movie that couldn't wait to finish itself rushing from one score-driven climax to another. It's a movie that shits on the ideas of the subtlety, depth, and wit.

At least the 70mm footage was beautiful.

I'm expecting to not be invited to a few birthdays after this.

I mostly agree with you, but do not ever watch Source Code.

[Krispy]

Hah, I saw it with my dad. I know what you mean.

[muddi900]

Actually I don't know what you are saying now krispy.

[Krispy]

Source Code fosters a lot of the same complaints that TDKR did for me.

[Bone]

Me too. Mostly that people expect more from blockbusters and can't enjoy a damn movie for what it is instead of what it isn't!

[crazyD]

Hear hear. Bone's got it right.

[J Arcane]

Originally Posted by Krispy

Source Code fosters a lot of the same complaints that TDKR did for me.

Out of curiosity, did you have the same complaint about Silent Hill?

I know I did.

[Krispy]

Okay, fine. So then we create a category of film that is indubitably lower quality based on it's release schedule and budget. But then the next time a blockbuster comes out, I don't want to hear anyone clamoring about how good a movie it is. Let's remember that we already decided they can't be by definition.

I haven't seen Silent Hill in a long time, so I don't feel comfortable giving an opinion right now.

[Bone]

Originally Posted by Krispy

Okay, fine. So then we create a category of film that is indubitably lower quality based on it's release schedule and budget. But then the next time a blockbuster comes out, I don't want to hear anyone clamoring about how good a movie it is. Let's remember that we already decided they can't be by definition.

I just can't describe what a bummer it is when you leave a theater smiling with your friends, and one guy has that sour look. He's going to let you all know why your good time was a shallow and trite experience.

[Krispy]

Well, now we know why no one invites me out to do things.

[crazyD]

"The movie didn't do everything the way I wanted it to, so it is objectively trash!"

[Krispy]

Ladies and gentlemen, a straw man. Thank you crazyD. Take a bow.

[crazyD]

Sorry, are you saying something differently? You are saying that you don't like what they've done with the Batman character, so this movie is "indubitably lower quality" and you don't want to hear people "clamoring about how good a movie it is". I'm not seeing any good reasons why this movie is shit, just that you think it is, and everyone else is wrong.

[Krispy]

Mr. crazyD, I see that you are confused as to path of the conversation. I hope that I can clarify. The comments you quoted were in response to Bone's statement as follows:

"Mostly that people expect more from blockbusters and can't enjoy a damn movie for what it is instead of what it isn't!"

My response was to concede. We create a category of film that is "indubitably lower quality" qua Bone and described a consequence of this concession which was that now blockbusters cannot be good movies unconditionally. Just good movies qua blockbusters.

It's true I don't like what they did to Batman in TDKR, but to act like this is the linchpin of my distaste is to really over emphasize a bullet point in a larger narrative. The reason why I think the movie is cruddy is because it talks down to its audience. For more detail, please refer to my original post. For further detail go ahead and inquire here where you would like me to expand.

[Bone]

But I didn't say "lower quality", that was your construct. I just meant that movies like TDKR, maybe, are not trying to achieve what you expect out of cinema. It might not be that movies aren't good enough, but that they aren't trying to be art films or some deeper statement. I find the Nolan series to be a very solid and more realistic entry into superhero movies... and better than I expected them to be.

[Krispy]

Fair, but the retort is still the same. My criticism doesn't apply because this category of film, blockbusters, shouldn't be held to a standard where stuff like talking down your audience is considered. Whether or not this makes blockbusters a class of lower quality films depends on how you value stuff like talking down to your audience. However, the consequence is still the same.

I happen to think it is ridiculous that features like release schedule, budget, and super heroes should narrow our expectations like this.

[Bone]

Really, you don't expect that being a superhero movie doesn't entitle them to spell things out a little more, for younger viewers? Something something target audience?

[Krispy]

But you know what, I am obviously barking up the wrong tree.

I also never intended to subvert other's enjoyment. Movies like TDKR and Inception are like tidal waves and sweep you away and it's fun. Enjoy your fun. However, I found the movie shockingly forced and condescending and felt like I should articulate my feelings on a forum.

[Krispy]

Yes, I find it kind of shitty that superheroes are still considered for kids to such a degree that we have to write our "gritty and realistic" movies to be for kids.

[Ink Asylum]

Originally Posted by Krispy

Yes, I find it kind of shitty that superheroes are still considered for kids to such a degree that we have to write our "gritty and realistic" movies to be for kids.

The Dark Knight Returns isn't written just for kids. It is written for a broad audience, though, which is how you make hundreds of millions of dollars.