Day Z- Mod for ARMA 2 Zombie Survival on a 15 Mile island

[Krispy]

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not all about making a game where everyone holds hands and whistles, but that the dangers of the game world are formidable enough that you really need to take pause before deciding if you can afford to shoot the guy in front of you. That seems a lot more interesting than just deathmatching with zombies as obstacles to me.

[RandoM51]

Originally Posted by Krispy

I think you misunderstand me. I'm not all about making a game where everyone holds hands and whistles, but that the dangers of the game world are formidable enough that you really need to take pause before deciding if you can afford to shoot the guy in front of you. That seems a lot more interesting than just deathmatching with zombies as obstacles to me.

...and I'll say it again: How do you make zombies that are formidable to fully equipped players while not impossible for respawns who only have a flashlight and a bandaid?

The other issue is that regardless of how "hard" you make zombies players will always be smarter, will learn whatever patterns and/or methods they need to treat zombies as merely an environmental hazard. You won't ever make it truly hard for the experienced players, you'll only make it harder for the inexperienced players.

I don't think the experience you want is possible with an open world game featuring gear-based PvP.

[Krispy]

A good start would be to make them more punishing to gunfire as it seems they were made less punishing instead.

[RandoM51]

Originally Posted by Krispy

A good start would be to make them more punishing to gunfire as it seems they were made less punishing instead.

Experienced players have silenced weapons, know which weapons make the least noise and know where they can and cannot fire at will.

All you would do is make it harder for the inexperienced players.

Fire a Lee Enfield anywhere near a building and watch what happens.

[Krispy]

I am suggesting making it harder for everyone, baseline. If everyone has silenced weapons then that seems like an issue of loot availability. If it is a matter of experienced players being able to dominate new players just because they know all the tricks and have all the best loot, then I don't see that inexperienced players really have much to lose. They are already being fucked. Obviously these are design challenges and no challenge is trivial, but coyly acting like it is impossible is pretty silly. As Reverant noted, a time where it was more punishing existed. Namely, in May. Coyly acting like it is impossible is also distracting from the important part: That I would prefer the game if it were less deathmatch oriented. Nothing about this preference should require me to design the game for them.

[torrefaction]

Again, mechanics just need to be included to encourage cooperation. Hordes with too many zombies to reasonably deal with alone in high loot.areas is an easy way to.ensure cooperation. Allowing more securing of areas (which they're already working towards with barbed wire and such) will also do a lot to encourage it.

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[jpublic]

It's not that hard. Just work things like Realm of the Mad God. Make stuff near the spawns easy to get, and make the z disinclined to go there, and make the good loot buried under massive hordes of them.

[rein]

I guess my question is if the zombies are not posing a real threat to players while other players are then what is preventing the mod from becoming just another death match FPS?

[Widgetcraft]

Just got through with my first session of DayZ. Well, I died immediately on my first session, but I just got through with my second session. Lasted several hours, and I logged out without dieing. I have a Czech backpack, water bottle, knife and hatchet... my friend tells me that if I can find a pack of matches, I'll be able to stay out of the cities entirely if I want to. I also have a lot of medical supplies, a little gun and a bunch of ammo for it. Fair amount of food as well. I'm at the pond north of Elektro right now, and plan on heading north tomorrow.

[Troggles]

I just picked up ARMA II from the Steam sale. Decided that this looked interesting enough to spend over my $10 limit on a single game for the sale. I should be available to team up to give it a go throughout all of today.

[RandoM51]

Originally Posted by jpublic

It's not that hard. Just work things like Realm of the Mad God. Make stuff near the spawns easy to get, and make the z disinclined to go there, and make the good loot buried under massive hordes of them.

So the experienced players will roam in bandit packs and have much better gear than people starting on the coast, allowing them to dominate PvP and easily deal with zombie hordes.

Oh wait, that is how it is now, you won't have changed anything.

What people seem to fail to grasp is that there are lots of people already working together. Most experienced players already group up, have already formed groups, already avoid solo play. Those relationships are formed outside of the game, over a significantly longer period of time. With server-hopping characters in a very large population of players and name-changes instantly and easily possible there is no way to build up that trust inside the game itself. It isn't that working together doesn't matter, it is that there is no way whatsoever to build a trust relationship in the time provided by the game. Even if you somehow manage to force grouping at low level these people are still going to form their trust relationships outside of the game and are still going to shoot you on sight if you're not part of their tribe.

The only way you're going to further encourage working together, and namely at the low level you're talking about is to remove the ability to loot the corpses of other players. The problem isn't that working together isn't rewarding enough, it is that shooting the other guy in the head and taking his loot is an option. Some not-insignificant number of players are always going to vote "shoot him in the head" even if that isn't the best survival option just because it is---for them---the best "fun right now" option. As long as it is possible to shoot the other guy in the head there are people who are going to choose that option.

I just get the feeling people aren't really thinking their ideas through and for the most part are judging the entire experience just by what goes on in the coastal cities. Even worse they're advocating game mechanic changes that won't even work---and by work I mean produce the intended change in player behavior---the way they play the game, much less the way many others play it.

Originally Posted by rein

I guess my question is if the zombies are not posing a real threat to players while other players are then what is preventing the mod from becoming just another death match FPS?

It will never be, "just another deathmatch FPS". What you're missing about what makes the game special is NOT THE ZOMBIES, it is the open world+survival requirements. Zombie games are a dime a dozen, the open world survival mulitplayer FPS featuring full PvP? There's only one that I'm aware of. People are buying this game for the open world survival PvP, not the zombies---even if they're not even aware of it, yet. That is why the people who wanted another boring PvE compstomp are unsatisfied. People come for the zombies, they stay for S.T.A.L.K.E.R. PvP.

You make this just another boring PvE zombie game and we might as well just uninstall it now because you're going to lose most of the players after less than a week. I find it telling that the only other multiplayer zombie game with any popularity features zombies controlled by players and that even with the director throwing hordes of AI zombies at the players it is only the special ones that make a situation challenging for the experienced players. Valve couldn't make zombie hordes challenging by themselves, I'm not sure why you think Rocket can.

[rein]

Originally Posted by RandoM51

It will never be, "just another deathmatch FPS". What you're missing about what makes the game special is NOT THE ZOMBIES, it is the open world+survival requirements. Zombie games are a dime a dozen, the open world survival mulitplayer FPS featuring full PvP? There's only one. People are buying this game for the open world survival PvP, not the zombies---even if they're not even aware of it, yet. That is why the people who wanted another boring PvE compstomp are unsatisfied.

You make this just another boring PvE zombie game and we might as well just uninstall it now because you're going to lose most of the players after less than a week. I find it telling that the only other multiplayer zombie game with any popularity features zombies controlled by players and that even with the director throwing hordes of AI zombies at the players it is only the special ones that make a situation challenging for the experienced players. Valve couldn't make zombie hordes challenging by themselves, I'm not sure why you think Rocket can.

Thanks for the answer. I hope to find out for myself here in a few more hours. My freakin DSL is slow and AT&T does not currently offer anything faster to my neighborhood. That, or they are BS'ing me because I dropped my land line when I switched.

[roboninja]

Well, I picked up ARMA II on Steam. Time to get this sucker installed.

[RandoM51]

Just watch this video, you can see how organized people play DayZ.

[jpublic]

I tried this for a bit this morning, and it's clear that as awesome as it is, I won't be able to get much out of it. I just won't be able to play enough to avoid starvation.

[Wackman3000]

Originally Posted by jpublic

I tried this for a bit this morning, and it's clear that as awesome as it is, I won't be able to get much out of it. I just won't be able to play enough to avoid starvation.

You can get to a town with food, a gun, and every supply you need within 5 minutes of spawning.

[jpublic]

Yeah, but when I can only play on the weekends?

[Troggles]

Originally Posted by jpublic

Yeah, but when I can only play on the weekends?

Is your weekend only 4 minutes long?

[RandoM51]

Originally Posted by jpublic

Yeah, but when I can only play on the weekends?

Time doesn't pass for you when you're not logged in. You're not going to starve to death in between logins.

[jpublic]

Huh. I read otherwise. Okay.