Mass shooting in Colorado. 12 dead, 59 wounded.

[Chris_D]

I think the type of gun is important here. In Australia it's also legal to own shotguns, hunting rifles or target pistols with the appropriate license. No more than that though.

[Slack3r78]

Originally Posted by Chris_D

I think the type of gun is important here. In Australia it's also legal to own shotguns, hunting rifles or target pistols with the appropriate license. No more than that though.

The problem there is that, in the United States, attempts to regulate the *types* of weapons available have generally been brain dead.

For example, these are all California-legal rifles, and California has one of the strictest "assault weapon bans" in the country:



It ends up being mostly cosmetic.

I'm also generally a little wary about the "hunting rifles are okay!" argument. An old-school hunting rifle can be, in many cases, far more deadly than any of the evil black rifles people are afraid of.

[TheKeck]

Originally Posted by Serapth

I think the underlying suggestion is that concealled carry would not have prevented this, and would in fact have exasperated the problem.

Well, I believe even if you tone down the argument even to simply exacerbating the problem then my argument still stands. It is my understanding that most of the time, people who end up using their concealed weapons for self defense are effective. The idea that these "heroes" end up causing more problems is more of stuff from tv/movies than real life.

I have not researched it a ton, so I could be wrong. But like I say, that is my understanding.

[ShivaX]

Originally Posted by Slack3r78

I'm also generally a little wary about the "hunting rifles are okay!" argument. An old-school hunting rifle can be, in many cases, far more deadly than any of the evil black rifles people are afraid of.

Actually the most dangerous weapon in these situations tends to be a shotgun or hunting rifle. They're reliable and tend to kill rather than injure. An "assault weapon" is more likely to jam and will probably fire a smaller bullet. I remember an article way back about some dude in a McDonalds who went in with an Uzi and a shotgun. The Uzi did almost nothing before it jammed and then he pulled out the shotgun and killed everyone he shot at.

[muddi900]

Originally Posted by Serapth

Wouldn't a bullet shot up, by its very nature be travelling at speeds no greater than terminal velocity, which given the weight of a bullet, would be quite low.

Given a weight of 18grams for a 7.62x39 round shot by an AK, which is 0.03 lbs according to Google. Assuming a cross section of 0.05sq/ft and optimistically assuming the bullet reached an altitude of 800 feet, according to NASA the bullet would be travelling at 27.2 ft/sec when it reached earth. ( http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/termv.html ). By comparison, the muzzle velocity of an AK47 is 2300 ft/sec.

So getting hit by a bullet fired in the air would have 1/80th the hitting power of a bullet fire point blank.

It would hurt like a bitch, but that would probably be it.

It isn't science if you aren't using SI units.

[Slack3r78]

Originally Posted by ShivaX

Actually the most dangerous weapon in these situations tends to be a shotgun or hunting rifle. They're reliable and tend to kill rather than injure. An "assault weapon" is more likely to jam and will probably fire a smaller bullet. I remember an article way back about some dude in a McDonalds who went in with an Uzi and a shotgun. The Uzi did almost nothing before it jammed and then he pulled out the shotgun and killed everyone he shot at.

I tend to point to the North Hollywood Bank of America shootout. The robbers fired in excess of 1000 rounds from fully automatic weapons and the only deaths were the two robbers.

[Vigil80]

Originally Posted by carnage11

I'd rather not talk about the gun control issue. And instead discuss what the hell this kid's motives were. And I say "kid" because he was quite young. He was also on his way to a degree in neuro-science. Have they figured out yet what exactly his reasoning for shooting up a bunch of people for no reason was? Considering the trip-wires and booby trap bombs set in his home, it seems an awful lot of thought went into this whole ordeal. He has no criminal record (other than one speeding ticket) and seemed to be straight and narrow. I'm very interested to see if they find out what exactly was going on.

I'm still expecting they'll find some profound warning signs. Unless I misinterpreted a headline I saw, or it was just wrong, the perpetrator's mother reacted less with surprise than "it's finally happened."

I'll also be interested to see if he has any foreign substances in his system.

[astranoir]

Originally Posted by fitbabits

I am safe. I did go to the marathon showing, but at a different theater (this theater was sold out when I tried to buy tickets - it's the closest theater to where I live and would have been my preferred choice). However, I live less than five miles from the scene of this tragedy. I took yesterday off work to volunteer at Gateway High School with the American Red Cross. I also donated to iGivefirst

It has been a long couple of days and I am extremely exhausted.

To those who want to turn this tragedy into a debate about gun control, please let it rest. Have some respect while the human cost of this tragedy is still being counted. Turn off the cable news, spend some time with the ones you love, and go see a movie at your local theater.

I'm glad to hear you're alright.

[bstiff]

Originally Posted by carnage11

I'd rather not talk about the gun control issue. And instead discuss what the hell this kid's motives were. And I say "kid" because he was quite young. He was also on his way to a degree in neuro-science. Have they figured out yet what exactly his reasoning for shooting up a bunch of people for no reason was? Considering the trip-wires and booby trap bombs set in his home, it seems an awful lot of thought went into this whole ordeal. He has no criminal record (other than one speeding ticket) and seemed to be straight and narrow. I'm very interested to see if they find out what exactly was going on.

Who knows if we'll ever know. From what they've found so far, it looks like he was planning this for the last 6 months or so when he started to accumulate equipment. Most likely did it for the notoriety I guess. It's odd he decide to wear pretty much full body armor though. If anything you figure he'd want to go out in a shoot out if anything. Well at least he's in jail and never getting out.

[Darkmatter]

Originally Posted by ShivaX

Actually the most dangerous weapon in these situations tends to be a shotgun or hunting rifle. They're reliable and tend to kill rather than injure. An "assault weapon" is more likely to jam and will probably fire a smaller bullet. I remember an article way back about some dude in a McDonalds who went in with an Uzi and a shotgun. The Uzi did almost nothing before it jammed and then he pulled out the shotgun and killed everyone he shot at.

Not to make light of these things but it would have been hillarious if he had only brought the Uzi and it had jammed before firing even 1 shot. He'd just have to turn around a run back out. lol


As an alternative to more gun control maybe we should have manditory psych exams for everyone once they reach 18.


Fits, really glad your OK. And I don't think you need to worry about this conversation. Its been more respectful than usual.

[bstiff]

Originally Posted by Vigil80

I'm still expecting they'll find some profound warning signs. Unless I misinterpreted a headline I saw, or it was just wrong, the perpetrator's mother reacted less with surprise than "it's finally happened."

I'll also be interested to see if he has any foreign substances in his system.

The report I heard was that some reporter called her at 4 or 5 in the morning and she said something along the lines of "whatever happened you've got the right guy"

[biosc1]

Originally Posted by bstiff

The report I heard was that some reporter called her at 4 or 5 in the morning and she said something along the lines of "whatever happened you've got the right guy"

Recent news seems to suggest he was on the same prescription that Heath Ledger was on...whatever that may mean.

Just finished reading an article about the girl who died in the theatre who had just previously narrowly escaped getting shot at a shooting in Toronto a few weeks back...that's some crappy stuff.

[ClannerDelta]

Originally Posted by Darkmatter

As an alternative to more gun control maybe we should have manditory psych exams for everyone once they reach 18.

You're a scary person. Exactly how much of a hard science do you think psychology actually is?

[Pale Ale]

For the Greater Good.



Ohh Ohh, who does this remind you of?


According to the nation's citizenry, calls for a mature, thoughtful debate about the role of guns in American society started right on time, and should persist throughout the next week or so. However, the populace noted, the debate will soon spiral out of control and ultimately lead to nothing of any substance, a fact Americans everywhere acknowledged they felt "absolutely horrible" to be aware of.

[VerseD]

Two of the twelve who died were young men protecting the women they loved. I find that fact more worthy of our attention than any tally of bullets and bombs.

What's happening to America, to the second amendment? I do not know or presently care. Somehow all those debates pale next to the triumph and the terrible grief of the victims, the survivors, and their families. If you have a human heart, let it rest with them, and not with the weapons and politicians.

Originally Posted by fitbabits

To those who want to turn this tragedy into a debate about gun control, please let it rest. Have some respect while the human cost of this tragedy is still being counted. Turn off the cable news, spend some time with the ones you love, and go see a movie at your local theater.

Best post here.

[Chris_D]

Who wouldn't want to do something to try to reduce the chance of such a tragedy occurring again.

[MagGnome]

My thoughts are with the victims and their families.

[VerseD]

Originally Posted by Chris_D

Who wouldn't want to do something to try to reduce the chance of such a tragedy occurring again.

To reason out a fix is one of the most natural responses to grief and suffering, but I think a wiser one -- in personal relationships or otherwise -- is to "console with out presuming to advise," as Trevanian says, at least immediately and especially when so little is known about the cause.

[Chris_D]

Sure, but I don't know any of those personally affected by the tragedy and was not attempting to console in this case.

[Serapth]

I honestly do not get this mindset to be honest; something horrible happened yes. But burying your head in the sand out of respect helps nobody.


Another aspect is the level on involvement. There is no reason to be a dick about things, and too often people on the internet troll such threads for such an opportunity.

At the same time, literally tens to hundreds of thousands of people die every day. The further away your monkeysphere is from the actual event, the less you can actually care. If you invest honest to god feelings into every one of these tragedies, you will be paralysed with grief.