The Official CoG Diablo III Thread

[TheKeck]

Originally Posted by SonofSeth

Non HC quickly turns into pure grind, for levels, loot or achievements, but when you play HC, you just want to stay alive.

I started a HC character on a whim last night (hardly played at all so it's not like it's affected anything yet), but it made me think that it would actually encourage more grinding to be sure that you are over leveled/equipped and have less of a chance of dying. I wasn't happy with this thought.

[ClannerDelta]

Originally Posted by TheKeck

I started a HC character on a whim last night (hardly played at all so it's not like it's affected anything yet), but it made me think that it would actually encourage more grinding to be sure that you are over leveled/equipped and have less of a chance of dying. I wasn't happy with this thought.

I progressed through every act in Normal/Nightmare without any grinding. Even skipping any zone I could. You have to pop out to use the AH every so often, but it's mostly just to upgrade your gear at around 15 and then again when you hit A1 or A2 nightmare. Otherwise it's just grabbing a good weapon and going to town on people.

[TheKeck]

Originally Posted by ClannerDelta

I progressed through every act in Normal/Nightmare without any grinding. Even skipping any zone I could. You have to pop out to use the AH every so often, but it's mostly just to upgrade your gear at around 15 and then again when you hit A1 or A2 nightmare. Otherwise it's just grabbing a good weapon and going to town on people.

Yeah, I'm not saying that the grinding is necessary by any means, but the temptation is there.

[SonofSeth]

Originally Posted by TheKeck

I started a HC character on a whim last night (hardly played at all so it's not like it's affected anything yet), but it made me think that it would actually encourage more grinding to be sure that you are over leveled/equipped and have less of a chance of dying. I wasn't happy with this thought.

Yeah, I can see how that could happen. My highest HC char is 31 and I'm still in that sweet spot where drops, crafted armor and one weapon from AH was way more than enough to keep me feeling powerful enough.

From my normal playtroughs, Hell is where I see a possible need for grinding, but once you get to Hell, fights become hard and unpredictable enough that staying alive, even if just grinding, is a form of achievement.

[Ravenlock]

I will say that while I enjoy playing my non-HC Wizard and I liked beating the game with him, nothing I've done with him felt like an achievement the way beating things (even on Normal) feels in HC.

Yeah, you need to be willing to lose your progress, but your progress feels a lot better. To me, anyhow.

[Serapth]

Now that I've played a number of hours in Inferno, I am kinda annoyed.

It's not the difficulty that gets me, that's the entire point, but the shitfest of a way they implemented it. Summoning invincible one hit mobs are so common, they force you to have one build and only one build. That's the part that sucks about it. All the way up to Inferno I could play however the hell I wanted, and so long as I brought skill to the table, I was good to go.

Now in inferno though, that tactics are pretty much dictated. I have exactly *ONE* flexible skill slot. For my wizard, Diamond Skin or Mirror Image, Force Armor, Blizzard and Hydra are pretty much a set requirement. You simply cant play without Force Armor. So my choices at this point basically boil down to Archon? Or Teleport? Thats about it. You deviate from this build and you are completely dead. That you lose your stack if you respec locks you in even more.

Ditto for your equipment, you basically have to build everything around getting one shotted.

On top, if you want to improve your gear, the new death costs making grinding an EXTREMELY time consuming process. I am glad I got my gear up pretty good before the high repair builds came into play. I like that death has a consequence, but COME ON...

[Ravenlock]

I'm not nearly up to that level, but if that's true, they fucked up. The whole point of doing away with the skill tree and stat systems (according to them) was to allow users true flexibility in their play styles. All of the skills (maybe not all, but certainly the higher-level skills and the higher-level runes in the lower-level skills arranged in non-elective mode patterns) should yield playable builds.

[Darkmatter]

I just started Inferno so I haven't run into that yet but don't you pretty much need teleport to get away from "wallers?"

It doesn't help that the Wizard has a lot of useless skills, runes, and passives. Once you get to the higher levels you use pretty much the same 10 or so things.

[RandoM51]

Originally Posted by TheKeck

I'm sort of guessing he means playing a low level alt as opposed to his uber main character. Am I in the right ballpark Random?

Yeah, it isn't because it is a wizard, it is because it is the same content I've plowed through 4+ times already and it is on ridiculously easy mode so there isn't any excitement whatsoever.

Of course I did go to the auction house and buy gear for every slot, making sure I got a socket wherever possible and then stuck high level gems in them. Wizard basically 1-shots just about everything now.

[TheKeck]

Originally Posted by Ravenlock

I'm not nearly up to that level, but if that's true, they fucked up. The whole point of doing away with the skill tree and stat systems (according to them) was to allow users true flexibility in their play styles. All of the skills (maybe not all, but certainly the higher-level skills and the higher-level runes in the lower-level skills arranged in non-elective mode patterns) should yield playable builds.

We've already discussed this a fair amount. I'll point out again that

1) At least you get to play around and experiment with all kinds of builds up until the point that you get to Inferno
2) Once hitting that block, you can simply choose the skills you need to rather than starting the game over

To me, those are still two pretty huge wins over previous iterations.

[Ravenlock]

Originally Posted by TheKeck

We've already discussed this a fair amount. I'll point out again that

1) At least you get to play around and experiment with all kinds of builds up until the point that you get to Inferno
2) Once hitting that block, you can simply choose the skills you need to rather than starting the game over

To me, those are still two pretty huge wins over previous iterations.

I can agree with that, but that doesn't mean the system is working as they describe it. Their whole ostensible reason for changing it was to prevent there being "one build that works."

It can be better while still having work to do that should have been sussed out before release.

[Troggles]

Fortunately they set the game up that once they do tweak it enough for multiple builds to be viable, you don't have to start a whole new character to do so.

[Darkmatter]

The Wizard didn't really have a lot of builds (that were useful) to play with. You used either Arcane Orb or Disintigrate and that was pretty much it for the main attack spells. The ice beam was ok for some 1 on 1 fights but thats about it. I never found a reason (or desire) to use the 4th spell. The signature spells were better then that at least.

[TheKeck]

Originally Posted by Ravenlock

I can agree with that, but that doesn't mean the system is working as they describe it. Their whole ostensible reason for changing it was to prevent there being "one build that works."

I don't believe that IS what they said, actually. I remember them talking about player behaviors. Talking about how people were looking up optimal builds online before playing the game and then following those builds by the letter.

Their whole goal, as I recall, was for people to be able to jump into playing the game, experiment with what they liked, and not resort to looking up optimal builds. And I think that's been accomplished.

[Serapth]

Originally Posted by Darkmatter

The Wizard didn't really have a lot of builds (that were useful) to play with. You used either Arcane Orb or Disintigrate and that was pretty much it for the main attack spells. The ice beam was ok for some 1 on 1 fights but thats about it. I never found a reason (or desire) to use the 4th spell. The signature spells were better then that at least.

You know you can unlock it so you don't have to use anything from that category, right? I don't use a single spell from that group.

Man, if i had to use the default spell set, I would be screwed!

As to wallers, Diamond Skin/Mirror Image often help you weather the storm.

[Serapth]

Originally Posted by TheKeck

I don't believe that IS what they said, actually. I remember them talking about player behaviors. Talking about how people were looking up optimal builds online before playing the game and then following those builds by the letter.

Their whole goal, as I recall, was for people to be able to jump into playing the game, experiment with what they liked, and not resort to looking up optimal builds. And I think that's been accomplished.

Except inferno. Until Inferno, certain spells weren't manditory. Now though, without Force Armor, you simply can't survive.


I will say though, 75% of the wizards passives are shit, so no big loss. I actually kinda wish Force Armor was a passive, that would make it less annoying.

[digitalErich]

Originally Posted by Serapth

Except inferno. Until Inferno, certain spells weren't manditory. Now though, without Force Armor, you simply can't survive.


I will say though, 75% of the wizards passives are shit, so no big loss. I actually kinda wish Force Armor was a passive, that would make it less annoying.

This is what really turned me off to the game after a couple of weeks. I knew full well that I'd have to stack survivability spells/passives, at least at first. However, the more I play towards the end game, the more I realize that certain fun spells/runes/passives just have no place past level 55.

Sure, the challenge of the enemies is more fun, but I'm not sure that fun offsets the fun lost when I have to use boring runes like "increases armor 50%" or "enemies deal 10% less dmg for 3 seconds".

I had more fun with the game when I was doing flying teleport kicks across the screen, dropping giant bells, and my basics had cool and fun rune effects. Now I'm stacking spells that are boring to use with runes that, while I def live longer, add no flavor to the actual gameplay.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely got my money's worth from D3, but with the way loot is handled and the end game really having no hold over me, I think I've already "finished" D3 for the most part. I might goof around with another class or two while listening to podcasts, but I'm really surprised how quickly I fell out with this game given how good parts of it are.

[Wackman3000]

While I haven't had any desire to go back to the game since finishing Hell and getting my Wizard to level 60, I did enjoy my time with the game and played with a variety of builds throughout each difficulty.

[TheKeck]

Originally Posted by Serapth

Except inferno. Until Inferno, certain spells weren't manditory. Now though, without Force Armor, you simply can't survive.

I don't find this to be at odds with what I've said.

[Shjinta]

Originally Posted by Darkmatter

What do you mean Random? I play a Wiz so I'm curious to hear what you find different (and worse) between your guy and a wiz. (You play a WD right?)

My WD never made it passed 40.. All I was doing was spamming poison dart with the splinters rune.. that's pretty much it. Every spell I had was to snare or slow mobs so i can spam the darts. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzz