An Arrestable Offense?

[fitbabits]

Should stupidity and/or blatant disregard for one's own safety be an arrestable offense? Read this first then comment:

One person died Saturday after he fell in the water when an ice floe broke away from land in western Lake Erie, a Coast Guard spokesman told CNN.

"We have rescued more than 150 people, and unfortunately there were two people in the water," Coast Guard Chief Petty Officer Robert Lanier said. "One of the people was recovered and brought to shore," but the other man was pronounced dead after being transported to a hospital.

Coast Guard aircraft were surveying the ice floe to make sure everyone had been recovered, Lanier said.

At least some of those rescued were ice fishermen.

"Ice fishing and recreation on the ice is a culture in the Great Lakes. It's something we've become used to," Lanier said.

But the Ottawa County, Ohio, sheriff said those rescued should never have been on the ice in the first place, and "if there was a section in the code about common sense, we would have had 150 arrests out there today."

"This just cost the taxpayers a ton of money," Sheriff Bob Bratton said. "We lost a life out there today. ... I'm sorry a man lost his life out there today. These people should have known better ."

He said the fishermen had to build a makeshift bridge to get from one section of the ice to the other. "When they got to the other, that put them further out. The weather changed; the temperature went up; the wind was coming out of the south. These are all things that are indicators [that a break could occur]."

Beside the money spent, he said, the rescue effort put rescuers in danger.

Asked whether there are signs or other notification systems to discourage fishermen from going out on the ice under risky conditions, Bratton said there are only Web sites fishermen can check.

"We will go back and look at that," he said. "We can't develop the attitude, 'Go out on the ice. If you get caught, we'll be there to get you. We'll bring you in.' You've got to have common sense."

Unprecedented numbers of fishermen have taken to the ice this winter because thicker ice allowed them to go farther out onto the lake, according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer. But Saturday's unseasonably high temperatures apparently melted chunks of the ice.

Ice fishermen towing trailers with snowmobiles and all-terrain vehicles filled the parking lot of Catawba Island State Park on Friday, the newspaper reported.

"It's really busy for a Friday morning," park ranger Christopher Desh told the Plain Dealer. "I expect the weekend will be a madhouse."

The ice floe, 8 miles long, was created when a large piece of ice broke off Saturday from land near Locust Point, Ohio, east of Toledo, Lanier said earlier.

Numerous helicopters participated in the rescue, Lanier said, including those from the Canadian Coast Guard, the U.S. Coast Guard, Ohio State University and Monroe County. State hovercrafts were on the scene as well, and airboats were sent, he said.

Those rescued were brought to a staging area at a park, Lanier said.
The U.S. Coast Guard received a call from one of the people reporting they were stuck about 10:45 a.m., he said.

The National Weather Service issued a warning Saturday that ice floes could break away from the main ice area in the western section of Lake Erie.

Reporter Colleen Wells of CNN affiliate WTOL said she had spoken with some of those rescued, and they reported they went out on the ice this morning as people had laid planks over the cracks in the ice. But "the wind changed, and that ice they were on started drifting out and before they knew it, their plank had fallen into the water, so they were stuck," Wells said.

"They're in good spirits," she said. "They feel kind of embarrassed."

Emphasis mine.

Discuss.

[diablopath]

story here
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/07/Ohi...ice/index.html

if there was a section in the code about common sense, we would have had 150 arrests out there today." "This just cost the taxpayers a ton of money," Sheriff Bob Bratton said. "We lost a life out there today. ... I'm sorry a man lost his life out there today. These people should have known better."

I don't know what anybody else thinks about this, but I don't believe I've seen anybody call out idiots like this before. Usually it's the "We avoided a bigger tragedy", and I really appreciate this guy saying "People were being idiots, and it cost somebody their life."


I dunno. What does everybody else think about that?

[fitbabits]

I beat you by a minute, diablo, so I merged the threads.

[ShivaX]

The real problem isn't stupid people dying, its firefighters, Coast Guard and the like having to risk their own lives saving them from being stupid. I'm inclined to say no though because its the sort of thing thats easily abused. Being stupid is sort of a free speech issue. You have the right to be an idiot.

[fitbabits]

Originally Posted by ShivaX

The real problem isn't stupid people dying, its firefighters, Coast Guard and the like having to risk their own lives saving them from being stupid. I'm inclined to say no though because its the sort of thing thats easily abused. Being stupid is sort of a free speech issue. You have the right to be an idiot.

Think of the uproar if the rescue personnel didn't roll on this one and simply decided to let fate dictate the outcome.

You may have the right to be an idiot, but do you have the right to put other people's lives at risk by doing so?

[DangerousDaze]

There are too many stupid people in the world to make it an offence. The legal system would collapse under its own weight!

Perhaps better education is the answer?

[BlackScarab]

Originally Posted by DangerousDaze

There are too many stupid people in the world to make it an offence. The legal system would collapse under its own weight!

Perhaps better education is the answer?

As the great Ron White said, you can't fix stupid.

[fitbabits]

Originally Posted by BlackScarab

As the great Ron White said, you can't fix stupid.

But when stupid leads to people dying and others risking their lives to rescue stupid, shouldn't there be consequences?

[DangerousDaze]

Originally Posted by fitbabits

But when stupid leads to people dying and others risking their lives to rescue stupid, shouldn't there be consequences?

I guess the rescuers have to make a cost/benefit analysis on a case by case basis. "What are the chances of me being injured or worse while attempting to save this idiot?" If the chances aren't good then the rescue shouldn't be attempted. After all, it'd be stupid to. Right?

[frederec]

Originally Posted by fitbabits

But when stupid leads to people dying and others risking their lives to rescue stupid, shouldn't there be consequences?

Haven't there been cases where the people rescued get charged for the expenses to mobilize the huge rescue. I can see wanting to do that when it was the person's on stupidity and negligence that led to the situation.

It's like the emergency room. You can show up in desperate need for help, and they'll help you, only talking about money once it's all said and done. Saving lives is the priority, figuring out who's at fault and what needs to be done can be done afterwards.

For another analogy, it's like if a teenager wrecks a car. Most parents, when they hear about this, will ask if their kid is all right first. Once that's settled, then they can start laying into them about responsibility and consequences and whatnot.

[Johan]

Originally Posted by DangerousDaze

There are too many stupid people in the world to make it an offence. The legal system would collapse under its own weight!

Truth.

Perhaps better education is the answer?

The entire bloodbath of the twentieth century is proof that mankind can't be educated out of what we are, and what we are isn't pretty.

[fitbabits]

Originally Posted by Johan

The entire bloodbath of the twentieth century is proof that mankind can't be educated out of what we are, and what we are isn't pretty.

We're human, unfortunately. Some, though, are indefensibly stupid.

[Johan]

Originally Posted by fitbabits

Some, though, are indefensibly stupid.

Most are, given the opportunity.

I have great faith in myself and my fellow man/woman.

[TrackZero]

Originally Posted by DangerousDaze

There are too many stupid people in the world to make it an offence. The legal system would collapse under its own weight!

Perhaps better education is the answer?

I always like to think that. But I know far too many stupid people (in common sense) that have great educational backgrounds.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

Is it common for ice fisherman to feel safe when the ice is breaking apart? If they wanted to arrest them, they should make it illegal to go out on the ice when the only way to get around is by crossing planks between chunks.

[Generation ABXY]

If nothing else, I think it could very well work as a sufficient deterrent: if you realize there may be legal consequences – even if you don’t believe your life is at risk – you may think twice about doing something stupid in the first place. On the other hand, I do think there is the potential there for a slippery slope – I mean, the next person may be willing to extend that rule of law even further – so, as someone mentioned before, it would probably be best to simply make the people responsible for what happens, whether that is monetary damages or (and this I’m not too sure about) even unintentional manslaughter if a rescuer is injured.

[pseudopseudo]

Here's the thing. When you go into a fire rescue, law enforcement, or even medical (EMT?) field, you go in fully knowing that at some point in time, your life will probably get put in danger during a rescue.

I'm not saying that stupidity should be defended (it shouldn't). And these rescue crews are heroes in the most literal sense of the word. I'm just saying that if you are in the business of saving people, you know full well that your life may be put in danger. Some of the people you save aren't the brightest, and I guess that's just part of the job. I'm sure the stupid ones are a minority compared to all the other lives that are saved.

[fitbabits]

Originally Posted by pseudopseudo

Here's the thing. When you go into a fire rescue, law enforcement, or even medical (EMT?) field, you go in fully knowing that at some point in time, your life will probably get put in danger during a rescue.

I'm not saying that stupidity should be defended (it shouldn't). And these rescue crews are heroes in the most literal sense of the word. I'm just saying that if you are in the business of saving people, you know full well that your life may be put in danger. Some of the people you save aren't the brightest, and I guess that's just part of the job. I'm sure the stupid ones are a minority compared to all the other lives that are saved.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that the rescuers were somehow oblivious to the nature of their work, but the question I'm asking is whether those who put the rescuers in peril through their own willfulness and stupidity should somehow be held accountable.

[Shamrock Jimmy]

If people do something really stupid and rescue teams have to be called in they should be financially responsible, but criminally? Hell no, if I want to do something stupid that is very likely to get me killed but doesn't put other people in danger I should be allowed to do so.

[Church42]

Yeah, I guess my thoughts are similar to Shamrock Jimmy...making an example of these fishermen w/ criminal charges does not stop people from being idiots.

But hit them in the pocketbooks and maybe future idiots will think twice before doing something idiotic