The Contempt For This Episode

[fishbang]

Are we guilty or inn-o-cent at the following link?

Heavy Rain is in the bag, finally, and for the good of everyone concerned we've spilled our guts all over this episode. The "good" not only being that we can move beyond a very contentious subject that has dominated the discussion for weeks, but that our final thoughts were surprisingly positive. I don't want to misdirect - we've still got a lot of awful things to say about how the game unfolded - but the shocking number of variations we discovered among each of our endgames, and the earnest gameplay experiment (something I'm always decrying the lack of) force us to admit that it was time well spent. I'll be hard pressed to look back in anger, and that's something I'm usually quite good at.

Show note: we're taking time off for spring break. Scott's going north, I think, and Jeremy, spawn in tow, will be heading south to the Magic Kingdom. We plan to record again in two weeks, at which point we may well have played a game or three to completion - or maybe we'll still be chasing class unlocks in BC2.

[Doogie2K]

Heh, gotcha Nab!

[nabokovfan87]

Originally Posted by Doogie2K

Heh, gotcha Nab!

DUDE! I was so i the middle of a post and it was all "wtf where do I put this" when I hit save.

Time for the discussion to end all discussions, and James, I do this so I don't have to email again.

Let's make some ground rules first, tag all heavy rain spoiler stuff with spoiler tags, to help prevent those whom wish it to remain virgin with the ability to do so.

Stupid mouse button just lost me this entire thing, and TAKE 2!

1. Jayden was a profiler and would not have been characterized as a full on FBI Agent. Despite the fact that he shouldn't have been an investigator the whole ARI thing clusterfucked that up. In either case, I didn't even connect this point that you guys made and hearing it blew my mind.

2. In the Ethan/Madison scene, you were playing as Ethan, sorry James.

3. Matt, the email writer, first off if you ever want to discuss a game, I have a podcast I would love to have you on, and hearing your take on how to fix the plot was amazing. I never even thought of something that simple, but in hearing that I have developed the following question for Scott (yes the detective, but more-so in a joking way asking Scott (the host) why he would do that to all those poor children):

Scott, if you were so damn pissed at your father, then why would you go after people like your brother in search of people unlike your father? Why not take your past experience and develop a saw-like scenario where you put crappy fathers through a series of trials, and throughout them unfold what happened to you, why they are there, and to help improve them as human beings?

Here is what I wanted you all to comment on in the email:

I mentioned on the forum, this quote from the podtoid (destructoid.com podcast), "this is ps3 only gamers fault, they are too stupid to know any better". Discuss how ridiculous it is to blame a game with plot holes on the gamer.

And the spoiler stuff:

Some are bringing up the fact that Scott has no reason to be gathering evidence, simply because the cops are so dumb and the families don't turn in evidence. From what I gather, who knows how long he has been killing for (one of the newspapers said seventh victim, making Sean number 8, if I remember correctly), but perharps the reason Scott gathers things is to keep the police naive to the whole origami in the locker bit.

Hearing the episode I understand how ridiculous a lot of the shit is, but I feel like for a lot of the "holes" you could easily fill them with stupid shit like what I said above.

As far as overall, I don't understand how you can hate the game. From playing half of Indigo Prophecy, I got used to the unusual gameplay of their games, and foresaw things as a "get so many button presses correct and you get the reward". In Heavy Rain it changed to a much more realistic, you had better hit the buttons to keep in safety, but you had better be sure to hit the one where the axe is coming at your skull. This game had me on the edge of my seat, heart rate up, cheering for the character to keep alive. The freeway trial, shock maze, police escapes, fingerprint removal, car escape, mansion shootout, apartment attack, car crusher attack, transport belt attack, crazy ass doctor, and the few that I'm forgetting were all 5-10 minute stretches where I barely took a breath. I'm sure by now you all will have answered whether or not you felt the same way, but I ask, has any other game done this for you, and perhaps is this the strength of Heavy Rain?

Again, hearing the new episode, I get how a lot of those scenarios did not hit you all the same way. The one that blew me away the most was when James was talking about the scene right after Lauren's death when Scott took out all the guards. That was one of the most badass things I have ever played, and to hear it was ruined for someone because the bitch didn't reload...

Lastly, for those who didn't get the nod (so far no one else has mentioned it), the apartment that Ethan and Madison move into, was once occupied by the devil worshiping, schizophrenic, murdering, main character of Indigo Prophecy. I bet that got it cheap too.

[fishbang]

cutting Nab off at the pass: yeah, I know. I thought I had posted the new ep here earlier when I posted it on our site. Apparently the process failed and I didn't notice, or maybe I just didn't click to submit - I'm too drunk at this o'clock to remember.

I wanted to rename your posting of the show while I was getting my own work done, but meh.

Also, I reiterate the absolute basting we gave to the game before admitting that it wasn't a complete drain on my humanity....(hic!) ;P




edit: goddamn my slow, drunk fingers!

editedit: i screwed up the post again, apparently. Scott can fix it this time. My glass is empty.

[nabokovfan87]

Originally Posted by fishbang

edit: goddamn my slow, drunk fingers!

editedit: i screwed up the post again, apparently. Scott can fix it this time. My glass is empty.

I don't thing the game was that bad.... I mean, drinking just because of plot holes!

[fishbang]

I drink to fill the plot-holes in my own life.

[CappinCanuck]

Heh, halfway through my recon class, already finished up all the rest. Now I gotta chase all the gold stars, pins and badges.

Good tip while you're doing the unlock: Play with one weapon at a time to 100 kills for the gold star. Then onto the next. To get the long service ribbons, you need 500 kills for each weapon type. This will get you, very cleanly and easily, 5 gold stars per class by the end. There's usually 3 good weapons leading up to the final weapon.

Save the shotgun long service for the recon class. The starter rifle is a wash, as well as the 2nd. You're best off using a shottie or auto rifle to get up a few unlocks. Cheers!

Edit: I sent you that friend invite as I said I would.

[Ravenlock]

I don't usually say this, but thank God you guys are taking a hiatus. Work has been hellish and I'm 2 episodes behind. I might actually have a chance to catch up now.

Have fun!

[Cavalier]

Chromehounds! Too bad they DLCed it to death.

[nabokovfan87]

James, you were talking about the ending to your version of the game. Check out, or have you already, the movie Identity with john cusack.

[lucklesswonder]

A little off-topic, but does anyone else think PlayStation Move sounds like a laxative?

[tacitus]

Originally Posted by lucklesswonder

A little off-topic, but does anyone else think PlayStation Move sounds like a laxative?

yes - I guess the inet was too tired over ipad jokes to pick that up and run with it. I thought the "arc" sounded way cooler; truth be told I liked revolution better than wii, so what the hell do I know about marketting.

[Count Elmdor]

I'm looking forward to hearing you guys spoil all of Heavy Rain for me. I don't really care to play it, but the fantasy of what it's about I've built in my head from numerous podcast discussions and some screenshots is pretty cool.

You know how when you were a kid in the video store the stories you made up in your mind based on the poster or movie box were always better than the real movie? That's what I'm doing with Heavy Rain, here.

[nabokovfan87]

So I'm sitting at work with baited breath waiting for James or Matt (Email writer) to post a comment on what I posted, but GEEZ. I don’t get what it is, maybe the lack of recording since January or just the fact that this week has been shit. Either way, to the last poster, Elmdor I believe it was, I would really avoid this episode until you play it. Hearing who the villain/killer is just ruins the game for you, and even hearing how/what pissed off James was at certain things kind of frustrated me.

I know it’s wrong to assume you will have the same experience that I will, but it is weird as hell to sit through something without blinking/breathing for the sake of not messing it up, and then hearing someone elses experience amount to “WTF, that was shit”.

Reminded of an old forum I posted on, in a “what was your favorite game way back when” and turns out the game I fucking enjoyed to death was complete shit. Elmdor, hearing you reference making images of the game based on screenshots, I can remember trodding down to walmart and picking things out based on the badassedness of a box shot on the back of the game. It’s amazing how good a game can be when you have no money or anything to be able to play anything else. Or, better said, it’s amazing how fond you grow of something when you have no money to be able to play anything else.

[Count Elmdor]

Originally Posted by nabokovfan87

Or, better said, it’s amazing how fond you grow of something when you have no money to be able to play anything else.

hear, hear

In some ways I actually miss those days. These days I have the opposite problem. Even great games get short shrift when the next thing catches my eye and I'm off to play whatever that is, often enough for $10 or less, even.

[nabokovfan87]

Originally Posted by Count Elmdor

hear, hear

In some ways I actually miss those days. These days I have the opposite problem. Even great games get short shrift when the next thing catches my eye and I'm off to play whatever that is, often enough for $10 or less, even.

4 words, math blaster, reading blaster, played em for hours.

Originally Posted by tacitus

yes - I guess the inet was too tired over ipad jokes to pick that up and run with it. I thought the "arc" sounded way cooler; truth be told I liked revolution better than wii, so what the hell do I know about marketting.

Remember what Scott was saying about how bad he thought it was going to be? When I tried out the 70 dollar + booster packs Eye of Judgment, I couldn't play it at night because the lights in my room (and it has 3 of them and is a 12' x 10' room) weren't bright. So I got a card table and a lamp and held the lamp to the card to get the brightness up enough in order to read the card. Lamp was probably 80 watts or so, BRIGHT AS HELL, and it still didn't work. I can honestly say that with all the issues I have had with my ps3, the ylods, the angry mothers, the shitty shipping, and spending what seems like days on the phone just to be able to play a damn game, I am going to get Gran Tursimo if all things look good and never buy a game again for that POS. Seeing where they plan to take things unsettles me in the kind of way when I first heard about the wii, saw the stupidass commercials and then heard how oprah recommended it.

Maybe it is just the pc gamer in me, but I have a very specific way that I feel about change. Give me a police 911 arcade machine setup and I will play your shooter for hours, give me a laser pointer for 100 bucks and a camera that wont read shit with a lightbulb 6 inches away because the room isnt bright enough, forget it.

When I get home, I will post on how they should have done it, with new tech that already exists and wont require a sensor.

[nabokovfan87]

Originally Posted by nabokovfan87

When I get home, I will post on how they should have done it, with new tech that already exists and wont require a sensor.

1st off, just beat mass effect 1, man that was lame. The last mission was by far the best, but a lot of it was just run here shoot 5 guys, drive here, rinse, repeat. I felt like I was playing a story that was underdeveloped and only got going once things ended. Hell, the first 5 minutes of mass effect 2 have more story then the entire 1st game. Anyways, back onto the sony bashing.

So we all know how a GPS works. uses math n shit to map out location based on distance and angle and such from some satellite. What the Move should have been was using that technology and turning it into a low scale type of scenario. Instead of car to space you have tv to couch to interpret. Wouldn't rely on some cheap camera, a light, or anything, just need to translate that tech into a much smaller setting.

[kyrieee]

Originally Posted by nabokovfan87

So we all know how a GPS works. uses math n shit to map out location based on distance and angle and such from some satellite. What the Move should have been was using that technology and turning it into a low scale type of scenario. Instead of car to space you have tv to couch to interpret. Wouldn't rely on some cheap camera, a light, or anything, just need to translate that tech into a much smaller setting.

Unfortunately GPS technology wouldn't scale, or to be more precise, the resolution wouldn't scale with the shortened distance. You could make a system like that work but it would require much higher grade equipment than what can be put in home electronics. It would also be impractical to set up because of <insert nerdery>

[Count Elmdor]

I could not be more in agreement with James on game design and why BC2's multiplayer is so much better than the typical shooter.

Incidentally, MAG is also very good for the same reasons. In some ways it does incentives even better. Did you guys ever try MAG? I don't recall.

[Iron Past]

To respond to your Move talk, I know that personally, I don't want a better controlling Wii. At all. Like, if Nintendo made a Wii 2 with the same tech that Move had (should it not exist), I'd skip this one regardless of having to miss all the first-party stuff, which is why I bought a Wii in the first place.

It has (almost) nothing to do with motion controls in general, and everything to do with the awful design of the wand/attachment control. I think many people have said how they feel about Natal controlling with no feedback, and the wand controller is the same thing. There's buttons for some feedback, but anything at all that makes use of the special properties of the Move still has the same problem; in theory, it's the same as Natal in that you use the controller for button inputs and still have to use gesture-based stuff for everything else, except that with Natal I already own the controller. More than that, though, I really, really don't like the split controller deal. It's uncomfortable and weird for me, and I have the added benefit of no feedback between my two hands using the same controller. So, it's not so much about motion with me, but the fact that they did nothing at all to make the interface any better (IMO) that makes me lukewarm to it.

Having said that, I'm happy they didn't hire a retarded monkey to place the buttons on it, and it seems more ergonomic than the Wii Remote and nunchuck. It's also the one I'd be most interested in giving a whirl, but since I'd have to buy two wands, a sub-controller and an eye, the cost of entry is pretty steep for something I don't think I'll be gaga over. Natal, on the other hand, I'm not nearly as sure about, but will cost much less.