The Crazy Like A Fox Episode

[fishbang]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a390/fitbabits/IGC.jpg


The new episode for Saturday, October the 11th is yours for the downloading right here (http://ingamechat.net/audio/IGC111008.mp3).

Time flies when digesting news from both the Tokyo Game Show and BlizzCon simultaneously, and it moves especially fast when you’ve got less than an hour to transmute that news into a cohesive discussion. We’re on track with the new Halo entries and Diablo 3’s wizard class announcement and other important things, but we can’t help savoring a recent and growing love of Peter Molyneux’s accidental PR genius. He’s at turns absurd and inspiring; enigmatic and embarrassing, like the manic pixie dream girl of post-middle-age game developers. Personally, I’d have hated the spectacle in the past, but now I find myself hoping for a similar show from the rest of the eccentric grognards in the industry.

Sadly, an unavoidable road trip during our normal studio time means your panel for this episode is well under complement. Jeremy is honeymooning with the missus and Dennis is shackled to whatever terrible apparatus he tends for the man. The show is always something less when a co-host is absent, but these two were particularly missed during this week’s mail bag segment. We had several opportunities to clarify for the listeners our feelings about the Wii, but without the heart and soul of our Nintendo fandom present, we had mostly shrugs and apologies. Thanks to the quality input of a remarkable listener base the present cast was able to handle some subjects in full, so keep it up with the emails and stuff. You’re making us look good.

[fitbabits]

I sure am glad someone changed your status to Community Member, otherwise this post wouldn't have been possible.

[fitbabits]

Oh, and I also moved this to the front page! Cos I'm awe. Some.

[Spigot]

I haven't had a chance to listen to anything more recent than the Rhinovirus episode, but are you going to shorter podcasts? If so, that's awesome because it's much nicer to be able to listen to more bite-sized podcasts.

[Soulless Toast]

I haven't had a chance to listen to anything more recent than the Rhinovirus episode, but are you going to shorter podcasts? If so, that's awesome because it's much nicer to be able to listen to more bite-sized podcasts.

We are now producing 3 episodes a week, each between 45mins-1hr-ish.

[Spigot]

We are now producing 3 episodes a week, each between 45mins-1hr-ish.
Neat. I caught mention of it going to a few times a week but I wasn't 100% sure if it would be shorter per ep. Very nice though. 45minutes or so is digestible. When it goes north of an hour or so, I just can't listen to them as often, which makes me sad :(

[danielOut]

We try not to make the Spigot sad. We'd much rather make the Spigot glad. So longer episodes are very bad. These were all the rhymes I had. ~fin~

Also, thanks for the front page move. You sir, you rockith my socks.

[Spigot]

I also demand a clean edit so I can listen to the podcasts in the car without my kids learning how to curse like a sailor with Tourette's syndrome. kthxbye :)

How kids know that, of all the words being bandied about on talk radio and podcasts, 'shit' is one they shouldn't say is beyond my ken... I guess I'm stuck listening to Jumping Monkeys all day :P

[Rogue_hunter]

I enjoy the new shorter podcasts, and the accompanying posts. This way we can all talk about cool stuff.

And the episode titles are pretty cool.

[Ravenlock]

I think - and I can obviously only speak for myself, but my general read on it is - that the Wii confusion from those of us who are Wii fans (and you'll find that mine is one of the emails in the overflowed bag from this last week) stems less from the subjective view that the Wii doesn't generally interest you guys - which is obviously fine to any reasonable person - and more from the objective statements you fall back on about the Wii being "good for party games when you're drunk" and not good at anything else, or that Nintendo's trickling schedule is all there is because 3rd party devs "haven't figured out how to develop for the Wii". Neither of which are, in my view, defensible statements, and you've asked us to "keep you honest". ;)

Zack & Wiki. Mercury Meltdown. Medal of Honor Heroes 2. Boom Blox. Trauma Center. Godfather: Blackhand. Okami. SSX Blur. No More Heroes and its upcoming sequel. Tiger Woods and Madden '09. Force Unleashed. De Blob. LostWinds. World of Goo. The Conduit. Mad World. Sin & Punishment 2. All 3rd party games that are either very good (or in the case of the last future releases on that list look very good) exclusively on the Wii, or cross-platform releases that are actually better on the Wii (Godfather, Tiger Woods, Madden, Force Unleashed, Okami) because of its unique features.

None of which is to say "hey, why don't you guys love this?" - maybe none of those games do anything for you, and I know you've got plenty of stuff you're busy loving on other platforms, and that's totally cool. If I had a 360/PS3 I have no doubt I would miss Wii titles in favor of titles on that system sometimes. But it's just demonstrably not true to label the Wii as a kiddie system where only party games are fun, or where only the 1st party stuff that comes out three times a year is of a high quality. The 1st party stuff is the meat of the system, Nintendo systems always work that way, but it's not the only stuff there by a long shot, and I think the situation will get better from here.

So anyhow, there's my from-memory rehash of most of what I said in my email. ;) The rest of it was my lack of enthusiasm for the here-we-go-again Punch Out, and my hope that when Kid Icarus finally surfaces it looks more like a Metroid Prime-style redesign and less like "here, pay for this thing you've already played".

[danielOut]

Here is my own experience list with your listed titles.. my opinions in italics.

Zack & Wiki. Boring Mercury Meltdown. Uninterested. Medal of Honor Heroes 2. Terrible. Boom Blox. Haven't had a free Gamefly slot to rent it, but this one does look interesting. Trauma Center. Looks dull; no interest in playing. Godfather: Blackhand. Alright, this is new to my list. I'll have to look it up. Okami. Meh. I give you this one. :) SSX Blur. Not interested. No More Heroes and its upcoming sequel. Heard bad things from a friend, didn't look particularly interesting to begin with. Tiger Woods and Madden '09. Not interested. Force Unleashed. Played the 360 demo; CERTAINLY not interested. De Blob. WANT. LostWinds. Not interested. World of Goo. Own on PC; feel it will be much better with mouse than wiimote. The Conduit. Looks interesting. Mad World. Seems really gimmicked to me. Sin & Punishment 2. This, too, I need to look up.

As far as the "good for party games when you're drunk", that is very defensible, because that's the only time I really enjoy it for any span of time. I understand this is probably not true for a lot of Wii owners, but it is how I feel about my little white console. And that 3rd party devs haven't "figured it out", I think that is true if you look at how forced a lot of motion control feels in Wii games; it isn't fluid and transparent. It all feels very shoehorned in. In my view; I am sure others disagree.

My Life as King, though, was the fucking shit. I love it.

[Ravenlock]

As far as the "good for party games when you're drunk", that is very defensible, because that's the only time I really enjoy it for any span of time.

Oh, it's totally defensible to say it IS good for that. It totally is. Hell, that's a point in the console's favor, I'm not saying "you shouldn't play this drunk", you very obviously should. Though only while wearing wrist straps if you care about your TV. ;)

But I don't think it's defensible to write off the console as ONLY good for that purpose. I mean, obviously you guys are an opinion-driven show, you're not professional game reviewers, etc etc, so everything you say is going to be to subjective to some degree (and that degree may be 100%). But you do make statements that come off as objective observations of quality all the time about all sorts of things, and it simply isn't objectively true to say the general quality of Wii games is low (shovelware notwithstanding), or that the aesthetic or gameplay of Wii titles is set to "juvenile" by default.

Several of the games I listed you have no interest in or didn't like, and again, while we disagree, that's fine - but in most cases that wasn't because they were low quality games. (Though really, you hated MoH:H2? The single-player was mediocre, but the controls were fantastic and the online was really good. IMO, obviously.) And that was only a list of a very specific set of stuff - 3rd party games I could think of that are either only on Wii, or have some advantage over their cross-platform brothers because they're on Wii. I left out cross-platform games that play pretty much the same anywhere... stuff like the Lego games, or the Tomb Raider games, or Bully, or Guitar Hero (no, I won't list Rock Band, though it sounds at least like Rock Band 2 will be an equal experience on Wii, here's hoping), and of course the entire 1st-party library which is the system's main draw. Galaxy, Twilight Princess, Metroid Prime 3, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, Paper Mario, WarioLand, etc etc. All that - again - may or may not do anything for you, but they're not, objectively, low-quality titles.

So between all that jazz, for a system 2 years into its lifecycle I really don't think the library is doing badly. I'm happier with it than I was with the Cube; there's plenty of stuff to play. Now, all the cross-platform stuff, obviously, you can just play on another system, but it's more the point to realize that Wii players aren't missing out on those things. And personally, as I've said before, the reason I keep my PC up to date in addition to the Wii is precisely so I can catch up on the 360/PS3 titles I miss down the road, the vast majority of which show up there given time. But I don't like to see the Wii derided as a system people shouldn't buy because there's nothing on it, when there are several really unique experiences you can only have there, lots of other decent-to-quite good games on it worth a person's time, and a lot coming down the pipe in both of those categories.

Whew. Apologies for the long windedness, especially since really I don't have a problem with most of what you wrote. Completely agree that forced motion control sucks when it's shoehorned in, and I'm not trying to say it isn't often done. But when it IS done well, either to make or enhance the gameplay, I do find it better than the button alternative, and there are some 3rd party devs doing that. And yes, My Life as a King is awesome.

Off to the zoo! Then, more Hinterland. Ciao. :D

[Spigot]

I'm someone who really likes the Wii when it does things right, but I've been less than interested in the games for it over the last while. Hell, I haven't powered it up in a good 3-4 months at least.

I love alot ofthe games on your list, Ravenlock, but aside from De Blob (which I definately plan to snag in the new year), most of the games either came out very early in this year or won't be out for a while. I haven't had anything that I've been really interested in hit the system in a while. Most of the games that do interest me are on the Wiiware system. Once winter hits and I get through most of the 360/PS3 games this fall, I'll get back into the Wii again... plus I'll have a game room built in my basement for the exclusive use of the Wii.

[KingGorilla]

The Wii and iPhone have a lot of similarity. They have really captured the immagination of the media, and anything to do with them is heralded, disected, and reacted to. But anyone owning either of the devices, may have some manner of rare status symbol, but misses out on a lot. But if you are not a "power user" you are oblivious to this. Savvy iPhone users know that they have purchased a somewhat gimped smartphone experience, just as Wii owners know that they have purchased a similar gaming experience.

[Spigot]

It also doesn't help that I literally cannot play my Wii during the day if the game requires me to point at the screen. The way my TV room is set up, the sun shines in the back door/window the majority of the day and I basically have to either play the Wii first thing in the morning (good luck when you have two kids to take care of or are working) or I have to wait until after the sun goes down.

Yet another reason why it will be nice to have the room set up in the basement. No more bloody glare.

[kropotkin]

The Wii certainly is on the receiving end of a great deal of ire for many within the gaming community as a whole. This is hardly surprising considering the amount of foul shovelware there is on the system. But looking at Ravenlock's post above would indicate that there are some gems in amoungst the dross of 3rd party titles for system.

I actually endorse his list of good games from 3rd party consoles for the most part. MoH:2 was a good game as was Lost Winds which I'm playing a lot of. As for Boom Blox that gets a big thumbs up from me although my friends refuse to play against me due to my job. I'm a structural engineer you see and thus have a slight advantage over them :P

Anyway don't be too down on the Wii. There are some good games on the system, you just need to know where to look. I say start from Ravenlock's post...

[Spigot]

I think you have a good point there. I am pretty good about not paying attention to shovelware and honing in on the gems but the sheer deluge of crap on the Wii doesn't help. When it does things right, it does them very, very right. It's just that the shiny gems are buried under a mountain of crap...

[Ravenlock]

If you're a listener of IGN's podcast line, download their most recent Nintendo Voice Chat and give it a spin. Apparently TGS had a crapload of really good looking upcoming Nintendo stuff. They talk a lot about World of Goo and the Art Style WiiWare games, but also are really hyped about Muramasa: The Demon Blade (http://wii.ign.com/articles/918/918509p1.html) (a 2D action RPG by the guys who did Odin Sphere; be sure to watch the videos, they're gorgeous), and also stuff like Tenchu 4, the new Tales of Symphonia game, Punch Out, Klonoa: Door to Phantomile, and Cosmic Walker, which is apparently (basically) Endless Ocean in space.

I know for me, the next month involves picking up as purchases/rentals:

World of Goo as soon as I get home tonight
Maybe one or both of the Art Style games, I love the look of Orbient
Secret of Mana on Virtual Console
Spider-Man: Web of Shadows if it gets good reviews (had some promising hands-ons)
Maybe Sam & Max Season 1
Quantum of Solace and/or Call of Duty: World at War - again, really depending on the reviews.

If all those end up being good (obviously, they might totally suck, but if), that's a perfectly respectable month. Especially buffered by stuff on the PC like Fallout 3, Hinterland, and, whenever I get to it, The Witcher: Enhanced Edition. :)

[Spigot]

Ooh. I loved Endless Ocean... I might have to keep my eyes peeled for that Cosmic Walker game.

[Ravenlock]

World of Goo - Own on PC; feel it will be much better with mouse than wiimote.

Posted my first hour's impressions of the Wii version over here (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showpost.php?p=27822&postcount=24). I haven't tried the PC version, but I'm perfectly happy with the Wii controls and at least one fellow (http://www.brainygamer.com/the_brainy_gamer/2008/10/ive-got-goo-on-my-wii.html) who has tried both thinks they're better on Wii.

I'll grant you that it's extremely rare for Wiimote to trump mouse, but in this case it appears they may have pulled it off.

[KidCactus]

You wanted to know if someone out there actually inverts the X axis in games: I do. But only in games viewed from a third person view, and for some reason not all those games.

In Final Fantasy XII I just got to have the X axis (and Y) inverted, anything else just feels, well, wrong. The way I see it, in third person you're not controlling the view from the characters perspective, but the camera behind her/him. To look to the left of the character, the camera has to move around the character to the right, hence move the stick to the right.

[el cheezer]

I also invert the X and Y axis on third person cameras for the same reason. And I use the "flight stick" version for first person views, but only on a pad. The few times that I play with a mouse, I'll keep the Y axis as is.

The reason I invert the Y axis is because I used to play an obscene amount of Top Gun on the NES when I was younger. For some reason, that just got me used to the invert for first person cameras. It's pretty much second nature now.

[danielOut]

The reason I invert the Y axis is because I used to play an obscene amount of Top Gun on the NES when I was younger. For some reason, that just got me used to the invert for first person cameras. It's pretty much second nature now.

I think you may have just solved the reason why I do it, too. I never thought about it until now, but damn that would make sense.

[Psykoboy2]

I used to play an obscene amount of Top Gun on the NES when I was younger.

That in-flight re-fuel segment still haunts my dreams.