Ender's Game is a good book

[TheKeck]

Or so it would seem. My wife is in a women's book club, and this month they are reading Ender's Game. I was surprised by the choice and very curious to see how she and others would like it. I don't know about the others, buy my wife got the book on Sunday and she read it in one day. And now... she's about to finish it again!

That's right, she read it twice in a week! :eek:



Maybe it's high time I read it again.

[astranoir]

Has she/have you considered reading the whole Ender series and the whole Bean series?

[KingGorilla]

You are just saying that because it is written by a Mormon.

[Durka-Dan]

It's a very good book indeed. Recommend you read the whole series though and all of it's spin-offs.

[Typical Michael]

Yeah they are all good.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

I have heard other people in EvAv discussions say that the rest of the series and the Bean line of books aren't worth it, but I disagree. I don't care for Orson Scott Card as a person, but I very much so enjoy his books.

[Lint of Death]

After first reading Ender's Game I practically devoured the other three books, reading something to the effect of 200 pages per day, IIRC, despite being on an active vacation in New Zealand.
I read the Ender's Shadow series a little over a year ago and I read them just as voraciously. These are powerful, exciting books if you ask me. The first Ender's Shadow is Ender's Game but from Bean's perspective; it's amazing what Card was able to do with simply telling a different perspective of the same story.

[VerseD]

I liked Ender's Game, and Speaker for the Dead and Xenocide are amazing. I didn't really care for Children of the Mind, so I never picked up the Bean series. Is it any good?

[Froghourt]

I may be killed for this, but I think Ender's Game is overrated.

Then again everyone who recommend it to me praised the book like it was the second coming, so my expectations may have been a little high.

[astranoir]

I liked Ender's Game, and Speaker for the Dead and Xenocide are amazing. I didn't really care for Children of the Mind, so I never picked up the Bean series. Is it any good?

Personally, I like the Bean series better, but I know a lot of people did not.

[xoanon]

Ender's Game is a masterpiece. Speaker for the Dead is quite good. The next two are fine, but are hardly related to the first two. Ender's Shadow is interesting but I got the sense he was trying to write Ender's Game again. I didn't think the rest of the Bean books covered any new territory.

[Schnoogs]

I personally consider it the best sci-fi book I've ever read and I've read quite a few.

[Superman's Dead]

I loved the Shadow series, because it was half of what I loved about Ender's Game. I loved Ender himself, and I loved the plot and world he lived in. His series was more about his character, and the Shadow series fleshed more out about the world that he lived in, a possible future that Card writes enough to seem incredibly realistic. Those books prompted me to do research on my own into Thai and Arabic history.

I really love Card's writing sometimes, when he can give himself over to a plot and the characters who have such real voices, instead of making the story a medium for a sermon.

I love the characters of Bean and Surly and Alai and Hot Soup. And how they have to fight to keep the world around them together. Hot Soup's meeting with the Emporer? Oh man. A literary scene that'll stay with me for a while.

But part of what makes Ender's Game so great, in my opinion, is how it brushes past all of that to focus on the character of the boy and his genius and his heart. Man do I love that book. Sometimes I just say, "Your ass is Dragon! Your ass is draggin'!" out loud and people have no idea what I'm saying. Once or twice I've dropped the ol' "enemy's gate is down", too, never to any avail.

[TheKeck]

Has she/have you considered reading the whole Ender series and the whole Bean series?
I've read Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, Children of the Mind, Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hegemon, and Shadow Puppets. For some reason, I haven't gotten around to reading Shadow of the Giant or A War of Gifts: An Ender Story. (And I never even HEARD of that last one before I just looked it up on Wikipedia.)
You are just saying that because it is written by a Mormon.
Exactly.
Ender's Game is a masterpiece. Speaker for the Dead is quite good. The next two are fine, but are hardly related to the first two.
I find this statement very odd. Seems to me that Speaker, Xenocide, and Children all had very much to do with each other but very little to do with Ender's Game. Maybe I'm remembering poorly.

[KingGorilla]

Ender's Game should really speak to everyone who plays murder sims. And when the line gets blurred even further as real life war gets put into the equation, like the Drone view for Ghost Recon, it gets even more scary.

I want Orson Scott Card to come back to videogames, after Bungie and Bioware just ripped him off, I want to see him make another go.

[Vandabo]

I love Enders Game, and the Shadow books are sweet too. The whole concept of the battle school is amazing, and I really liked how they made an interstellar war work around relativistic physics (mostly).

The whole thing with Peter and Valentine making blogs (more or less) and becoming internet demagogues is kind of eerily accurate too. Of course, when I originally read it about a dozen years ago, it wasn't as obvious how true to life that part would become.

[astranoir]

I've read Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, Children of the Mind, Ender's Shadow, Shadow of the Hegemon, and Shadow Puppets. For some reason, I haven't gotten around to reading Shadow of the Giant or A War of Gifts: An Ender Story. (And I never even HEARD of that last one before I just looked it up on Wikipedia.)

Exactly.

I find this statement very odd. Seems to me that Speaker, Xenocide, and Children all had very much to do with each other but very little to do with Ender's Game. Maybe I'm remembering poorly.

I think A War of Gifts was only written recently. I got it on a whim at Barnes and Noble on CD, and was incredibly impressed with it, though it's short.

[Rakael]

I enjoyed Ender's Game quite a bit, but I hardly think it is the sci-fi masterpiece it is made out to be. It was simply a good book. When I think masterpiece, I think Starship Troopers.

[astranoir]

I enjoyed Ender's Game quite a bit, but I hardly think it is the sci-fi masterpiece it is made out to be. It was simply a good book. When I think masterpiece, I think Starship Troopers.

The book? I thought to book was really boring. (Starship Troopers)

[Rakael]

The book? I thought to book was really boring. (Starship Troopers)

Yeah the book. I love that book so much that I read it every couple of years. I really like Heinlein, and how he explores humanity and society in his stories. Even though the movie was fun to watch, I despise it because it totally misses the point of the book. Starship Troopers was a vehicle for Heinlein to express his views on what would make a "perfect" human society. A sort of realistic utopia that might actually work, unlike so many other utopian societies laid out in other books. The movie was about guns (of which there were none in the book), tits, and cool looking Nazi style outfits. Hell, they didn't even include the one thing that would have made the movie badass, powered armor!

[Spacetronaut]

I loved Ender's Game, but only made it through Speaker For the Dead by gritting my teeth and powering though. I've heard Ender's Shadow is pretty good though.

[Lint of Death]

Yeah the book. I love that book so much that I read it every couple of years. I really like Heinlein, and how he explores humanity and society in his stories. Even though the movie was fun to watch, I despise it because it totally misses the point of the book. Starship Troopers was a vehicle for Heinlein to express his views on what would make a "perfect" human society. A sort of realistic utopia that might actually work, unlike so many other utopian societies laid out in other books. The movie was about guns (of which there were none in the book), tits, and cool looking Nazi style outfits. Hell, they didn't even include the one thing that would have made the movie badass, powered armor!

I think that's a rather unfair assessment of the movie. It's satire, not just action with chicks 'n' guns.

[Nikjitsu]

Wow. My college library just got a new copy, and I need to snatch it before thesilentdeath grabs it.

[Rakael]

I think that's a rather unfair assessment of the movie. It's satire, not just action with chicks 'n' guns.

Satire. Really?

Yeah, I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of, disagree with you here. Oh yeah, I'm also going to need you to come in on Saturday. M'kay, great.

P.S. My hip was killing me, so I'm doped out on that wonderful chemical hydrocodone. If I make no sense, just look at my avatar. That should clear things up. ;)

[JRR006]

I really liked Ender's Game. Fantastic book, even if I think Orson Scott Card is an ass. I have Speaker For the Dead but haven't read it yet. Maybe over winter break.

[Rakael]

I really liked Ender's Game. Fantastic book, even if I think Orson Scott Card is an ass. I have Speaker For the Dead but haven't read it yet. Maybe over winter break.

I too have Speaker For the Dead, but haven't read it yet. Maybe I should, but I am finding myself drawn away from sci-fi, and really fiction as a whole recently. I am starting on a collection of writings by Thomas Paine that my uncle let me borrow.

[Vandabo]

I too have Speaker For the Dead, but haven't read it yet. Maybe I should, but I am finding myself drawn away from sci-fi, and really fiction as a whole recently. I am starting on a collection of writings by Thomas Paine that my uncle let me borrow.

Be warned, Speaker for the Dead is very different from Enders Game. Still good, but in its own way.

[Jackel]

I really loved Ender's Game. It was a present to me from my sister and I still have the copy, and read it once a year at least. Out of the spinoffs / sequels, I enjoyed the Bean series more than the Speaker for the dead ones, although.

Speaking of which...i think it might be about time for another read through.

[danielOut]

I really like Card's works, including the Ender series. The Speaker books were absolutely a blast for me. His non-Ender works I find to be very interesting as well, even if you can tell some are from when he was a younger writer; and Empire was a little lacking compared to what I normally expect of his works, but still an enjoyable read.

A couple of people have said in this thread that they like the books, but not Card himself. I'm curious as to why. I met him once (I worked in an auditorium and was in charge of getting a mic on him and whatnot) for all of two minutes, he gave me his email, and proceeded to toss a handful of emails back and forth with me. Not to mention he sent me and my wife some signed books when we got married, nearly a year later. I also particularly enjoyed his speech. So I'm just curious if there is something that I don't know about him.

[Froghourt]

The whole thing with Peter and Valentine making blogs (more or less) and becoming internet demagogues is kind of eerily accurate too. Of course, when I originally read it about a dozen years ago, it wasn't as obvious how true to life that part would become.

See, that is the part that I really didn't like about the book. Of course, all the kids are geniuses, that much is clear, but, looking at how much Ender had to suffer "just" to become a military commander, and how little Valentine and Peter had to do to become THE RULERS OF THE FUCKING PLANET, it seemed kinda unbalanced, especially when Ender was the smartest one. It felt like being dragged away from the story that mattered into something the author had to make to give the story the ending it had.

I think my main issue with it was that Peter and Valentine did it almost like a hobby, they didn't struggle with it at all . They didn't have trouble leading a normal life while they were slowly manipulating the entire planet into thinking what they wanted. While Ender had to endure countless hours of hard, unforgiving work that almost killed him both mentally and physically, Peter and Valentine were able to comprehend every form of psychology, politics and economy in what seemed like no time at all.

[Lint of Death]

See, that is the part that I really didn't like about the book. Of course, all the kids are geniuses, that much is clear, but, looking at how much Ender had to suffer "just" to become a military commander, and how little Valentine and Peter had to do to become THE RULERS OF THE FUCKING PLANET, it seemed kinda unbalanced, especially when Ender was the smartest one. It felt like being dragged away from the story that mattered into something the author had to make to give the story the ending it had.

I think my main issue with it was that Peter and Valentine did it almost like a hobby, they didn't struggle with it at all . They didn't have trouble leading a normal life while they were slowly manipulating the entire planet into thinking what they wanted. While Ender had to endure countless hours of hard, unforgiving work that almost killed him both mentally and physically, Peter and Valentine were able to comprehend every form of psychology, politics and economy in what seemed like no time at all.
First, Valentine left with Ender.

I'm guessing you haven't read the Ender's Shadow series, which goes in depth from the end of the Bugger War until Peter's ascension to benevolent dictator and, for a small part, beyond; suffice to say, it was hard as Hell for Peter.

[Lint of Death]

Satire. Really?

Ya, really. (http://www.space.com/sciencefiction/movies/troopers_contrast_000610.html)

[Froghourt]

First, Valentine left with Ender.

I'm guessing you haven't read the Ender's Shadow series, which goes in depth from the end of the Bugger War until Peter's ascension to benevolent dictator and, for a small part, beyond; suffice to say, it was hard as Hell for Peter.

I do remember Valentine leaving with Ender, but I didn't want to go to in my previous post, though I probably should I have said that.

And no I haven't read Ender's Shadow, and that does change things.

[Midrael]

Mostly echoing what others here have said, but I really enjoyed Ender's Game too. That was a great book. I thought Speaker for the Dead was a good book too, but by the end of it, interestingly enough, I didn't have the drive to keep going with the series.

[Superman's Dead]

A couple of people have said in this thread that they like the books, but not Card himself. I'm curious as to why. I met him once (I worked in an auditorium and was in charge of getting a mic on him and whatnot) for all of two minutes, he gave me his email, and proceeded to toss a handful of emails back and forth with me. Not to mention he sent me and my wife some signed books when we got married, nearly a year later. I also particularly enjoyed his speech. So I'm just curious if there is something that I don't know about him.

He has personal views, some of which are very conservative and allied with his church (LDS). His novel Lost Boys, for example (I think that's the one), is half suspense-thriller half defense of Mormonism against common stereotypes.

And Peter and Valentine do touch upon what they lost; their childhoods. They're always in the libraries, always together, always working. Which is kind of glossed over, but in my opinion is sort of a big deal. Did keep Peter out of trouble, though.

[TheKeck]

His novel Lost Boys, for example (I think that's the one), is half suspense-thriller half defense of Mormonism against common stereotypes.
I was going to mention Lost Boys just because it's so interesting, I think. This weird mix of the most normal stuff in the world with utter bizarreness. Although it obviously prominently features people who are LDS, I don't remember it "defending Mormonism against common stereotypes." I think he just writes about LDS character sometimes because that's what he's familiar with. Then again, maybe I can't see it since I am LDS myself. (And it's been MANY years since I read it.)

I'm curious, though, if anybody's read the Homecoming Series. It's pretty much a straight lift of the Book of Mormon. Kind of like if you wrote a book about Mozez, and he was Joo alien, but he was accidentally adopted by the galactic emperor's daughter, and he rose to power, but then he started consulting with the supreme alien, and he forsook his riches to rally all the Joos, and he had to part the red asteroid field in order to lead his people to the promised planet. ;)

[Superman's Dead]

I was going to mention Lost Boys just because it's so interesting, I think. This weird mix of the most normal stuff in the world with utter bizarreness. Although it obviously prominently features people who are LDS, I don't remember it "defending Mormonism against common stereotypes." I think he just writes about LDS character sometimes because that's what he's familiar with. Then again, maybe I can't see it since I am LDS myself. (And it's been MANY years since I read it.)

I'm curious, though, if anybody's read the Homecoming Series. It's pretty much a straight lift of the Book of Mormon. Kind of like if you wrote a book about Mozez, and he was Joo alien, but he was accidentally adopted by the galactic emperor's daughter, and he rose to power, but then he started consulting with the supreme alien, and he forsook his riches to rally all the Joos, and he had to part the red asteroid field in order to lead his people to the promised planet. ;)

I just meant that the antagonist in Lost Boys had a lot of incorrect preconceptions about Mormonism that the main character (Card's voice) was attempting to correct.

I've read the first book in Homecoming three times and just now got ahold of the second one. School kept me from reading it, but I'd really like to. When I found out that it was from the Book of Mormon it kind of blew my mind...I mean, I wasn't feeling brainwashed...;) I think they're great.

[JRR006]

A couple of people have said in this thread that they like the books, but not Card himself. I'm curious as to why. I met him once (I worked in an auditorium and was in charge of getting a mic on him and whatnot) for all of two minutes, he gave me his email, and proceeded to toss a handful of emails back and forth with me. Not to mention he sent me and my wife some signed books when we got married, nearly a year later. I also particularly enjoyed his speech. So I'm just curious if there is something that I don't know about him.

Here's a link to his column in the Mormon Times (http://mormontimes.com/mormon_voices/orson_scott_card/?showAll=1). You can scroll through and look for the ones about marriage if you are so inclined. That's the problem I have with him, anyway. He makes some good points but also what are, at the base of it, extremely prejudiced ones. Your mileage may vary according to your personal philosophy.