What Are You Currently Playing?

[quidmonkey]

In lieu of so many similar threads, why not have one for our analog gaming endeavors?

Let's see, this weekend I played Acquire, Modern Art, Puerto Rico and Killer Bunnies.

So whatcha playin'?

[Zabyx]

Jenga, man. That's always fun. And I'm not being sarcastic either.

I also attempted to play D and D with some friends, but that never goes well.

[quidmonkey]

Jenga, man. That's always fun. And I'm not being sarcastic either.

I also attempted to play D and D with some friends, but that never goes well.

Is that Giant Jenga?

http://www.phoenixleisure.co.uk/images/857jenga1.jpg

[hunterx280]

EDIT: I'm special, please ignore. Nothing to see here but a grown man in a helmet. Keep on moving.

[Spigot]

Hunter is so hardcore he plays all of those games with pen and paper.

[Troggles]

I just started up a new DnD group tonight. Other than that, the analog gaming has been slim.

[axion]

Carcassonne.

[quidmonkey]

Carcassonne.

Ever try one of the various expansions?

[OrangePulp]

Looks like my rpg group will be picking up Vampire: The Requiem again. We ran Requiem for Rome (which was really good, btw), and now my DM has cooked up a game to take us from the crusades, to modern nights. It should be a lot of fun.

[kidkimura]

Memoir '44 eastern front, Age of Napoleon, Entdecker.
First game of "Age of Napoleon" took way too long but once we learned the rules the rounds went by fast.

[diablopath]

Memoir '44 eastern front, Age of Napoleon, Entdecker.
First game of "Age of Napoleon" took way too long but once we learned the rules the rounds went by fast.

I've heard some good things about Memoir '44. Is it a lot of fun?
I also want to get into Axis and Allies, but I'm not sure I could find people to play with.

[kidkimura]

I've heard some good things about Memoir '44. Is it a lot of fun?
I also want to get into Axis and Allies, but I'm not sure I could find people to play with.

It's great fun! It's based on the "command and colors" system. Sort of like "Battle Cry!" or a simplified "BattleLore". The game has easy rules and goes by fast. It also has some good expansions.

[Matthias]

I've been running go puzzles since the Go thread was necro'd... I also played a round of Family Guy Monopoly with two friends when I went up to College Station last week. I still haven't had a chance to break in my Settlers of Catan or Risk: Godstorm yet; people just don't seem that interested. Also, i know my parents grabbed Axis & Allies and Carcassone when the board game kiosk at the mall started clearing stock. I think they're waiting for christmas, but I'd much rather have the games in hand then have them sitting in the corner of their closet.

[quidmonkey]

I've heard some good things about Memoir '44. Is it a lot of fun?
I also want to get into Axis and Allies, but I'm not sure I could find people to play with.

It's great fun! It's based on the "command and colors" system. Sort of like "Battle Cry!" or a simplified "BattleLore". The game has easy rules and goes by fast. It also has some good expansions.

One of the cool things about Memoir is that the board is built out of hex tiles, much like Catan, so there's plenty of scenarios you can setup, or you can make your own. It's very much a lite WW2 wargame that plays in under an hour. The game revolves around order cards that you pull and play to direct your units around the board. The pieces, as with all Days of Wonder games, are of a high quality.

[shunoshi]

Go. That's about the only board game I get in these days. I don't have enough friends that play board games. :(

[hunterx280]

Hunter is so hardcore he plays all of those games with pen and paper.

D'oh! I snagged this out of my RSS feed and didn't even see where it was located nor did I notice it the word analog. Way to fail on my part.

[axion]

Ever try one of the various expansions?

Yeah the set I play with has the river, the builders and pigs, and cathedrals and inn on the lakes, along with the wheat/ribbon/barrel tiles. I love that they added stuff after to make the game even more fun. I want to get the Dragon/Princess expansion but no where around here sells it.

[quidmonkey]

Yeah the set I play with has the river, the builders and pigs, and cathedrals and inn on the lakes, along with the wheat/ribbon/barrel tiles. I love that they added stuff after to make the game even more fun. I want to get the Dragon/Princess expansion but no where around here sells it.

I happen to be a big fan of Gamesurplus (www.gamesurplus.com), as they're local.

[SilentScreams]

Playing some BloodBowl at the moment in anticipation of the video game.
I have no idea where my actual team has vanished to though, so we're just playing with the basic Human and Orc starters.

[Karak]

Bloodbowl.
Been playing for the last 3 weekends.
As for other stuff. I have been doing EDF rc planes. Finally got good at it and NO MORE explosions.

Going to start a Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay game in the next month.

[SilentScreams]

Bloodbowl.
Been playing for the last 3 weekends.
As for other stuff. I have been doing EDF rc planes. Finally got good at it and NO MORE explosions.

Going to start a Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay game in the next month.

Hah, your RC plane stories were good for a laugh at least. ;)

I've always wanted to check out WFRP, but never got around to it. The main problem is that my friends and myself are all on different work schedules, so getting everyone together for a decent game of anything is becoming a challenge these days.

[astranoir]

I'm currently running Masks of Nyarlathotep (CoC) every other Sunday, and on the off weeks I'm playing a DnD game (Pathfinder/3.5) that's based around Rock and Metal music :D I think my boyfriend might be running Hollow Earth Expeditions soon, so that should be sweet also.

[TheKeck]

Played Citadels and Bang over the weekend. Stupid stupid Bang. :(

[quidmonkey]

Played Citadels and Bang over the weekend. Stupid stupid Bang. :(

Ahh Citadels. I remember trying to play an 8 player game once: took forever.

[TheKeck]

Ahh Citadels. I remember trying to play an 8 player game once: took forever.
Yeah, I can see that. I think I've played an 8-player game. I know I've played 7. Ahh the mind games. ;)

We had a couple other couples over so we needed a 6-player game. The choices were Citadels, Bang, Medici, Winner's Circle, For Sale, and (UGH) Catan.

[quidmonkey]

We had a couple other couples over so we needed a 6-player game. The choices were Citadels, Bang, Medici, Winner's Circle, For Sale, and (UGH) Catan.

We banned Catan nearly a decade ago. We also banned Rico, but it's been a few years since I last played, so I said fuck it, and ended with a mere 72 - an all-time high score for our group. I have not played Winner's Circle or For Sale.

[TheKeck]

We banned Catan nearly a decade ago. We also banned Rico, but it's been a few years since I last played, so I said fuck it, and ended with a mere 72 - an all-time high score for our group. I have not played Winner's Circle or For Sale.
I TRY to ban Catan, but nobody else seems to get the memo.

You can pass on Winner's Circle but I highly recommend For Sale for what it is. (A very light but fun little game. Can literally be played in 15 minutes.)

[quidmonkey]

I TRY to ban Catan, but nobody else seems to get the memo.

You can pass on Winner's Circle but I highly recommend For Sale for what it is. (A very light but fun little game. Can literally be played in 15 minutes.)

It's all dice. And the faint hope that someone won't be stupid enough to fuck the two of you over with a shit house placement.

[Karak]

Hah, your RC plane stories were good for a laugh at least. ;)

I've always wanted to check out WFRP, but never got around to it. The main problem is that my friends and myself are all on different work schedules, so getting everyone together for a decent game of anything is becoming a challenge these days.

It is.
I have been in and out of roleplaying for the last 3 years. And this morning, even before I saw this thread, I just said "Enough is Enough" It used to be so amazing having game after game. But jobs, videogames and life got in the way.
But no more.
Called all 5 of my buddies and they JUMPED at the chance.
So back to Warhammerroleplay for a large group and not just the 2-3 people we normally play with.
I am pretty damn stoked.
PS:Ya the explosion will rank up there as one of the funniest things I have witnessed.

[Panthera]

Currently, running a weekly D&D 3.5 dark sun campaign, as I've talked about in more detail in other threads. In the last session, the party attacked the horde of 1500 gith by themselves. The mul fighter had several hundred javelins hurled at him over the course of a few short rounds, which was enough time to snipe out a few of their leaders with spells. Yay for mass rollers. :D

It is.
I have been in and out of roleplaying for the last 3 years. And this morning, even before I saw this thread, I just said "Enough is Enough" It used to be so amazing having game after game. But jobs, videogames and life got in the way.
But no more.
Called all 5 of my buddies and they JUMPED at the chance.
So back to Warhammerroleplay for a large group and not just the 2-3 people we normally play with.
I am pretty damn stoked.
PS:Ya the explosion will rank up there as one of the funniest things I have witnessed.

Awesome, I've only ever played one session of Warhammer FRP. The dice system seemed a bit simple and linear, but I loved the way the careers work and the setting is great.

[Karak]

Awesome, I've only ever played one session of Warhammer FRP. The dice system seemed a bit simple and linear, but I loved the way the careers work and the setting is great.

I would have to say that perhaps due to the one session it appeared that way(linear). Warhammer FRP has a very strange way of appearing to be one thing when it is another. Many things augment what you do or say and due to the 1-100 style of the numbering system, its purely childs play. To give you an example;
With less than 6 people I can easily run the entire battle in my head, with +'s and -'s all done on the fly with no paper and not even have to reask someone their stat in something(I usually keep this written down for myself anyway but I am just saying). Its amazing.
Also due to 1-100 system you can replace 10 sided dice with playing cards. Which is hella fun when you want the person to do the manual labor(keep track of stuff and roll) and yet you do not want them to know what they got.
They just flash the card to you and then put it at the bottom of the desk. SUPER fast and amazingly effective.

[BigJonno]

WFRP is a lovely, lovely game, but I don't think I'll ever have another campaign anything like my first. It was a great group with a brilliant GM, fantastic characters and it was the first time I got to roleplay with Mrs Jonno.

[Karak]

WFRP is a lovely, lovely game, but I don't think I'll ever have another campaign anything like my first. It was a great group with a brilliant GM, fantastic characters and it was the first time I got to roleplay with Mrs Jonno.

Arn't those sad times? When you have that group or game that...you will never forget.

I had a 6 year, every tuesday and saturday game. Dragonlance was the world(Still my fav), with a mix of Shannara kinds of things and we played alternate storylines to the books heroes, meeting them at times, but visiting Taladalas and such.
We still, 9 years later, talk about all the stuff that occured.
Every game I play I hope will be 1/10th that good:(

[Hawkzombie]

I would kill for a decent RP group near where I live.

[Jackel]

I just recently started doing D&D 4e with some friends (first time for all of us) some how I got roped into being the GM. But so far it has been a blast.

[TheKeck]

It's all dice. And the faint hope that someone won't be stupid enough to fuck the two of you over with a shit house placement.
I know sir. I know. Like I say, I TRY to have it banned, but my wife and others still love it.

[Smoof]

My friday group was playing the Everquest RPG for a while which was fun, but while I was away for two weeks, they switched over to playing the Star Wars RPG again. I wanted to get in on that, but I don't have the PHB for it and no one really felt like DMing, so last week we started doing Magic: The Gathering. Last Saturday, I bought myself a deck and look forward to playing my first serious game tonight.

My Saturday group, we usually play 4E, but as of the last two week or so as a little break, we've been playing Mutants & Masterminds, which is a fucking fantastic game. It's extremely open ended in both character creation and gameplay. Creation is incredibly deep and gameplay has been really simplified, only using a d20. I've had an absolute blast with it.

[Panthera]

I would have to say that perhaps due to the one session it appeared that way(linear). Warhammer FRP has a very strange way of appearing to be one thing when it is another. Many things augment what you do or say and due to the 1-100 style of the numbering system, its purely childs play.

I don't see any way in which that makes the probabilities nonlinear...? If you're not sure what I mean, a d20 roll has an equal chance of every number coming up. That's linear. 3d6 is produces a nice curve of results.

[Karak]

I don't see any way in which that makes the probabilities nonlinear...? If you're not sure what I mean, a d20 roll has an equal chance of every number coming up. That's linear. 3d6 is produces a nice curve of results.

Sorry I wasn't meaning linear I was talking about the simple part mostly.

[Lithium Flower]

D&D 4E. Playing in two games and running one mega campaign!

[Laughing Penguin]

I should look in on Analog Gaming more often...

Currently have been playing Uncharted Seas in my weekly LGS visit (great Fantasy Naval game, highly recommend) and building up a tabletop Zombie game using the All Things Zombie ruleset from Two Hour Wargames.

Always good to hear of other people pushing little metal men around like I do! =]

[Hawkzombie]

I finally started Mass Effect, after months of my wife hounding me and DEMANDING I play it.

I'm going Infiltrator, and loving the sniper rifle. But then, I've always been a crack shot :P...she kinda watched dumbfounded as I was one-shotting everything from Geth Drones to those stupid suicide bombers in the first area with the sniper rifle, and only missed like 3 times.

But yeah...kinda kicking myself for not playing this when it came out.

[Matthias]

I should look in on Analog Gaming more often...

It's odd because the forum doesn't really get a lot of traffic, but everytime it does, it's prompting me to spend $20+ on another awesome game that would end up being useless, as there's no one to play with. All of my friends are either hooked on video games, or don't have the interest to make time for games in general. It took effort just to get two friends together to play monopoly a couple weeks ago, and I've yet to break in my Settlers of Catan and Risk: Godstorm sets that I got for christmas...

[Laughing Penguin]

It's odd because the forum doesn't really get a lot of traffic, but everytime it does, it's prompting me to spend $20+ on another awesome game that would end up being useless, as there's no one to play with. All of my friends are either hooked on video games, or don't have the interest to make time for games in general. It took effort just to get two friends together to play monopoly a couple weeks ago, and I've yet to break in my Settlers of Catan and Risk: Godstorm sets that I got for christmas...

I'm somewhat lucky in that respect... there's a gaming shop less than a mile from where I live, and while a good percentage of my friends aren't into the stuff, the zombie game idea has gotten it's hooks into them.

Has anyone around here considered starting up a Vassal group? It could be a perfect way to get some CoG members together for some long-distance tabletop games...

[Matthias]

I'm somewhat lucky in that respect... there's a gaming shop less than a mile from where I live, and while a good percentage of my friends aren't into the stuff, the zombie game idea has gotten it's hooks into them.

Has anyone around here considered starting up a Vassal group? It could be a perfect way to get some CoG members together for some long-distance tabletop games...

Yeah to my knowledge there are no gaming shops in College Station, and only one comic book store back home that carries a few RPG books, some dice, and a ton of MTG cards.

What would I need for Vassal? I'd be down for some long distance gaming!

[Laughing Penguin]

What would I need for Vassal? I'd be down for some long distance gaming!

Basically go here:

http://www.vassalengine.org/community/index.php

It's basically just a virtual tabletop. It doesn't provide any rules or reference, so you have to know how to play whatever game you're playing, but people have created modules for a ton of different games, creating the minis, terrain and measuring tools needed to stage a game. While i've played a few games through there, i've never had the patience to learn how to build a module myself. But dig through the modules there and see what is available...

[Matthias]

Dang that's pretty sweet. Anyone can feel free to pick a game, though i would probly need help learning how to play.

[rifter]

I have played some gloom recently (Holy crap this is an awesome game). Starting a new D&D on Monday. :-) Character generation time!

Oh, and last Friday l played Carcassonne for the first time, on a board. Played basic rules first, then played with a river and dragons on the second go-around. Nice game, but not really my cup of tea.

I REALLY need to get my dragonlords painted for Uncharted Seas!

[Borthcollective]

My group just got back into 40K after the raping it's been taking since 3rd edition. It's fun again. Now just to get some updated books.

[Ox]

Vassal looks interesting. I've tried playing Twilight Struggle (which I love more than life itself) and 1960 on wargameroom, but my internet connection isn't fantastically stable. Vassal can do PBM, which would be very tempting indeed.

[quidmonkey]

Vassal looks interesting. I've tried playing Twilight Struggle (which I love more than life itself) and 1960 on wargameroom, but my internet connection isn't fantastically stable. Vassal can do PBM, which would be very tempting indeed.

If there's enough interest, I'd play a CoG Vassal game.

[Ox]

Well, heck. TS and 1960 are both two-player. I'm interested.

[quidmonkey]

Well, heck. TS and 1960 are both two-player. I'm interested.

Which do you prefer? Haven't played either. TS is rated a bit higher on the Geek.

[Ox]

I'm much more familiar with TS, and to be honest I find the milieu a little more entertaining -- getting Nixon into the White House isn't quite as exciting as risking nuclear catastrophe and staging coups in Zaire.

If you have no preference, I think we should try a game with TS since I can explain the rules a lot better. The mechanics are very similar, however.

[quidmonkey]

I'm much more familiar with TS, and to be honest I find the milieu a little more entertaining -- getting Nixon into the White House isn't quite as exciting as risking nuclear catastrophe and staging coups in Zaire.

If you have no preference, I think we should try a game with TS since I can explain the rules a lot better. The mechanics are very similar, however.

TS it is. Gimme a day or two to read through the rules, and then we'll play.

[alienmastermind]

Currently Playing: Mutants and Masterminds
Freedom City Villains campaign.

[AliasRomanian]

Hey Ox, check out wargameroom.com they have a better version of twilight struggle on there.

[Borthcollective]

Getting ready to play in a Mouse Guard campaign.

[Blue]

I finally have the rules to Arkham Horror down and my buddy and I got two games in on Sunday and had a great time. We managed to save the world by sealing the last gate with an elder seal only my friend was still in The Dreamlands so he took one for the team and was lost forever so the world could be saved. Good man, there.

Also, I just got word that Last Night on Earth will be shipping out to me today so I'm looking forward to giving that a spin and thwarting (or aiding) the zombie invasion.

[Panthera]

Getting ready to play in a Mouse Guard campaign.

Awesome, I read through the book recently. Very interesting system.

[Hotcod]

Our D&D game got rather interesting yesterday, we had almost hit level 2 and the group decided they wanted to be stupid and go after the a boss rather than do another encounter and level up and go after him. I role played it as my rangers wisdom kicking in as a sense of impending dumb and the DM had a little goblin we found warn against it heavily. But the others where insistent and so we went in, the rouge failed a stealth check which brought a tone of goblins poor in to the small anteroom and we started fighting. We where outnumbered at lest 3 to one at one point and had to fall back in to a tight corridor to stop them surrounding us with the wizard using cloud of daggers to help limit there attack options. It soon became clear that the DM was making the encounter up as he was going along, well he told me so when the other weren't listening. He was punishing us for doing a really stupid thing. We'd just lost 2 players so if we all died or if those 2 died it wouldn't have been much of an issue and could have started fresh. But some how we made it through, we had some lucky rolls but we also used every one and everything to our best advantage. We even nearly took down the boss, only had a few hitpoints left but he managed to sneak away. We'd killed at lest 30 odd goblins of minion and other levels... only the war forged went down, right at the end heh

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a128/hotcod/Image.jpg

not the best picture in the world, we've not all got PC models yet and the goblins where 40k minies heh but that was the start of combat, there was another wave of about the same size after that.

[Karak]

Our D&D game got rather interesting yesterday, we had almost hit level 2 and the group decided they wanted to be stupid and go after the a boss rather than do another encounter and level up and go after him. I role played it as my rangers wisdom kicking in as a sense of impending dumb and the DM had a little goblin we found warn against it heavily. But the others where insistent and so we went in, the rouge failed a stealth check which brought a tone of goblins poor in to the small anteroom and we started fighting. We where outnumbered at lest 3 to one at one point and had to fall back in to a tight corridor to stop them surrounding us with the wizard using cloud of daggers to help limit there attack options. It soon became clear that the DM was making the encounter up as he was going along, well he told me so when the other weren't listening. He was punishing us for doing a really stupid thing. We'd just lost 2 players so if we all died or if those 2 died it wouldn't have been much of an issue and could have started fresh. But some how we made it through, we had some lucky rolls but we also used every one and everything to our best advantage. We even nearly took down the boss, only had a few hitpoints left but he managed to sneak away. We'd killed at lest 30 odd goblins of minion and other levels... only the war forged went down, right at the end heh

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a128/hotcod/Image.jpg

not the best picture in the world, we've not all got PC models yet and the goblins where 40k minies heh but that was the start of combat, there was another wave of about the same size after that.

Ouch. Your post has like 50 of the things I hate about bad DND. When it goes bad man it goes bad. That and mini's make me want to crush someones face.
I am sure the game will get better though.

[Pale Ale]

Getting ready to play in a Mouse Guard campaign.

I saw that mentioned a couple times in a couple different time in a couple different places but now I learned that it was Burning Wheel game!

So fucking jealous... :D

[Borthcollective]

I saw that mentioned a couple times in a couple different time in a couple different places but now I learned that it was Burning Wheel game!

So fucking jealous... :D

I was voted Patrol Leader, woot! They are going to hate my non -fighty smart mouse from Sprucetuck.

[Laughing Penguin]

Just checking into the thread because I love the tabletop games... Karak, why the minis hate? Is it just in relation to D&D, or just figures in general?

On my end, offline gaming has been a bit slow due to the LGS being focused on a regional Warhammer Fantasy Tournament - a lot of players spending their time on fine-tuning lists. So, it's mostly pick-up games of Uncharted Seas, slowly trying to get AT-43 interest built up, and considering a Car Wars revival going. Kind of all over the place, really.

[Deadend]

Just wanted to pop in and let everyone know that my friends and I are using the Mouse Guard ruleset, as it's nice and has a bit of depth to it, and is built for releplaying. We are running a campaign that was supposed to be for Dark Heresy.. but scaled down so that we are mice serving the Mousequistion and fighting Chaos Weasels and such. It's quite awesome.

First session the boat we were on was attacked by a tainted mutant turtle and we rallied the civilians and slaves of the ship to be an army that we commanded to take out the turtle.

[Smoof]

Started playing some 3.5 Edition again on Friday and had a good time with my new Gnome Druid, a class I've never tired before.

Got in an awesome game of Magic last night too. After getting pretty crushed late in the game, I was still limping along and managed to get myself from 8HP to 30-something HP with two creatures, a 1/1 and a 1/4. Luck of the draw, I pulled my Darien, King of Kjeldor (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=122049) and already had out my Righteous Cause (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=197030). So, my friend attacks me, does something like 20 damage and with the lifegain, I end-up with 21health and 30-however many 1/1 soldiers (can't remember the math right now, I just remember I was at 30 Soldiers). Other friend's turn comes up, he attacks me, I take 19 damage, end-up with 50 Soldiers and 2 life. I've been holding on to Invincible Hym (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=175039) the entire game, so I played that, go up to 30-something life, attack my other friend with my 50 Soldiers, gain 50 life and completely kill him. My other friend's turn comes up, attacks me, I gain 32 more soldiers for a total of 82. My turn, I attack, gain 82 life for a total of 142 and demolish him as well.

It was absolutely fantastic. I though I was going to lose earlier, but as chance would have it...I love my white deck

[Karak]

Just checking into the thread because I love the tabletop games... Karak, why the minis hate? Is it just in relation to D&D, or just figures in general?


Honestly, it just curbs my imagination. In 24 years of gaming, I have never witnessed a game with mini's be any better than a game without. Even though original DND was indeed a true wargame with the use of mini's I understand that. Games like Heroscape, Heroquest, all the boardstyle mini games are FANTASTIC though. Don't get me wrong I play them almost religiously. But Roleplaying mixed with mini...just not for me.

I have also witnessed all roleplaying games with mini's be worse, descriptions of actions, movement, the imagery, many subtle things that a DM staring at mini's seem to miss.
Now I admit many games(not all) are going this route, probably to stop rules arguing. And at times arguing over the distance of a jump or something can indeed become tiresome. We have done away with this in our group through agreements before the game.
Just as recently as 2 months ago, three new players who only had experience with mini using DMs for the last 7 years came to our game. All they could talk about was how much they loved mini's in games, and this and that. They almost didn't play with our group over it. I asked them to play a single game.
So we sat them down in a room with no table turned down the lights, grabbed the character sheets and played without mini's.
They said they were never going back. Maybe that's just because our group is well oiled and has good rules clarification. I do not know. And of course its just one story.

I had the good fortune to talk to Mr. Gygax before he passed away about his thoughts on games and one thing we discussed was this very thing. He didn't agree or disagree, but he did bring up a good point that I felt hit home for me.

He said, "The boardgame style mini games that have come out recently lend themselves to a quick, less descriptive style that is very enjoyable but different than DND. The way DND has progressed lends it self to the imagery and flavor of a game of abstracts. It doesn't seem to fit with mini use at this time." Now Mr Gygax isn't a god or anything. I was just asking cause he was in front of me. But his point of particular games working well with mini's and others working better without, sort of mirrored my own.

I will gladly begin using mini's when all games move to that.
However, the 50 so odd games I have had with various DM's using mini's has instantly proved my worries right. At least so far. I guess all those DM's could have just been bad, but a couple of them were professional DM's that do events and the games really lacked that storytelling, that amazing almost euphoric high when the minds eye sees what the DM is describing.

EDIT: In closing I must admit I take DM'ing as a almost euphoric responsibility. To be told a story, with nothing but your mind as the canvas, and to be the hero, antagonist, or other player is something that video games will never even touch. So I am perhaps jaded towards those things that keep the story and the player seperate even if only trivial things.
As you can see in what I wrote, I have tried many games, and will continue to try games, with and without mini's. The moment a new tool or style makes itself invaluable I will be all over it. It's not a closed mindedness to mini, but an expectation of complete engulfing in a story that drives me.

[Karak]

As to what I am playing:
Car Wars this weekend. Had a good time.
Insane Asylum- I still think this is the best best best quick and fast game I ever play. No matter if the people have never roleplayed before or if they are experts its just insane fun.

[Panthera]

I agree with Karak, in general. Miniatures in D&D take me right out the game. To me, it's because it's not the right level of detail. Miniatures are too specific. They won't look exactly like your character. They won't have the right equipment. You probably won't have enough minis for all the monsters, so you'll use substitutes. NPCs will be generic. The plain white terrain stands out badly. None of these points are really important on their own, but as a whole it adds up to an ill fit.

I think there's a happy medium between minis and character sheets only, though, with a simple grid paper drawn on in pencil and those old, triangular Risk boardgame counters or something else abstract. The point here is to match levels of visual abstraction with each other and keep the picture in the mind's eye. When it comes down to it, though, it's the DM and player's responsibility to keep the narrative going.

[Karak]

I agree with Karak, in general. Miniatures in D&D take me right out the game. To me, it's because it's not the right level of detail. Miniatures are too specific. They won't look exactly like your character. They won't have the right equipment. You probably won't have enough minis for all the monsters, so you'll use substitutes. NPCs will be generic. The plain white terrain stands out badly. None of these points are really important on their own, but as a whole it adds up to an ill fit.

Ha. You did a far better job of describing it than I. Another friend described it as left and right sided brain functions not mixing. The artistic side, and then the more material side.
Whats funny is the little tidbit about mini's not looking like your character is one of the top points I have heard people bitch about in games with mini's. I didn't put it in cause I thought it was a small bitch from just my friends.
I am, and always will be open to mini games. But sometimes mixing peanut butter and chocolate is not as good as just having one or the other.
I love Heroscape, adore Heroquest. But for me, mixing them just hasn't worked.

[Laughing Penguin]

As to what I am playing:
Car Wars this weekend. Had a good time.


I've had a realitch to play Car Wars again recently... Jada put out a series of HotWheels-scale cars called Battle Machines that would make for perfect 3X scale Car Wars games. It's been tough getting the locals to get too into the idea though..

[Karak]

I've had a realitch to play Car Wars again recently... Jada put out a series of HotWheels-scale cars called Battle Machines that would make for perfect 3X scale Car Wars games. It's been tough getting the locals to get too into the idea though..

Ya, we don't use minatures or anything. We do a roleplaying version so I haven't had to look. Sometimes finding stuff like that is damn near impossible so using hotwheels stuff is great.

As for getting people to play. I simply give them 3 things.
1 A goal for each person for the game
2 simple rules, whatever you use, its got to be FAST cause...well its fast
3 tell them its just a 1 off game. Just a one time thing, and sell it as a quick fun game. If they enjoy it they will damn near make the story all by themselves.

[Hotcod]

I have to disagree to an extent, when i'm playing the minies and mat are only reference points to set up a film running in my head and i honestly couldn't keep up the complexity of that 'film' if i was having to keep track of placements and movements and the rest. With the new 4E rule set coming with the idea of minions and battles being much much bigger the mat and minnes leave you free to constraint on fun part rather than the rules and set up.

I mean i understand what you guys are saying but i just honestly don't find it and when i've played with out tokens at lest the mechanics of the combat become a chore and annoying.

What i'm getting at is that the minnies and mat are not there when i'm looking down on them but a view of the room in my head is... when people take turns i then zoom in in my head and have a film of those actions play out along with the DM putting lots of flavour in. It's easier for me to do with minies that at lest look a bit like they should becomes it helps snap my image in to place with less work.

It's also a fact of the games i play and the people i play with that we talk a lot of out of game rubbish, part of the reason i enjoy playind D&D is spending a good few hours with freinds having a laugh and a joke. When you are playing like that, dipping in and out of the game, then having a reference point is stupidly useful. We can spiral off in to random conversation and then move back to playing the game in a smooth way that would be hard to do if we where all trying to keep everything in our heads.

I think it's just preference and dynamics of the group, the way my mind works and for the group that i play with having the minnies makes for a better more enjoyable game.

[Panthera]

I have to disagree to an extent, when i'm playing the minies and mat are only reference points to set up a film running in my head and i honestly couldn't keep up the complexity of that 'film' if i was having to keep track of placements and movements and the rest. With the new 4E rule set coming with the idea of minions and battles being much much bigger the mat and minnes leave you free to constraint on fun part rather than the rules and set up.

Well, that's part of the nature of 4th edition. It needs a battle map. It really is as many parts board game as it is RPG now.

[Borthcollective]

I think that mini's just depend on what type of roleplaying you enjoy. If you are the kind of person or group that enjoy the dungeon crawl and number crunching then mini's make sense. But if you are the type that enjoys the roleplaying part of it more, you know the accents, the in character stuff, and really have a great idea for who your character is, then you probably don't need the mini's. Mini's also help keep track of the less honorable members of your group.

[Karak]

I think it's just preference and dynamics of the group, the way my mind works and for the group that i play with having the minnies makes for a better more enjoyable game.

Ya. 4th is basically a boardgame in Roleplaying game guise. And as you said, if there is in out conversation you would NEED mini's. 4th was planned as that(a boardgame style) and they did very well in their execution) No problems with that.
We have banter in game and in character, but I also plan 1 hour before the game to talk and catch up so by the time we play we want to play and not talk.
The entire group take roleplaying as such a vacation from real life, and are good at it so we have lives in the world, so its easy to roleplay.

But each to their own.
Whenever I am having a hard time, or a bit too stressed to DM, we go straight to the boardgames and stuff like that.

[Hotcod]

I've played D&D in other editions and feel exactly the same way... i just personally don't see a useful distinction in saying "this makes it an rpg" and "this makes it a board game" when one is the game and other a mechanic that can be used while playing it. If you like using mechanics or not is a personal preference, and i happen to have both a better game from a mechanics side and a better game from a roll playing side when using maps and minnies...

[Karak]

I've played D&D in other editions and feel exactly the same way... i just personally don't see a useful distinction in saying "this makes it an rpg" and "this makes it a board game" when one is the game and other a mechanic that can be used while playing it. If you like using mechanics or not is a personal preference, and i happen to have both a better game from a mechanics side and a better game from a roll playing side when using maps and minnies...

That's why its called an opinion. Everyone has their own.

[Deadend]

Well, my review of the Mouseguard rules is that it's a fantastic system, setting is a bit boring.. but the way the game allows for a railroad mode (DM Turn) and open ended stuff (Player turn) makes it pretty good. The fact the system is fairly simplified and relies more on just picking from the 4 moves available (along with the grenades we gave our mice to take out a small bio-titan made of mice) makes the games cool.

A couple weeks ago I improved an amusing cram-all-conspiracies together story that I made up on the spot as the DM was sick and didn't make it out. So I had the 3 players just make whoever they wanted.. and being assholes, I got Tobias (Arrested Development) and angry little old bible thumper, and a night-schooled overly litigious lawyer, ASSHOLES. So I had them have to chase down a guy (the combat system work for chases.. or anything.. such as talking their way past a guard) it also gave us all plenty of latitude on how to handle situations. It was my first session DMing and it seemed to work out well enough.

One of the guys is excited over Eclipse Phase the RPG that is all about the transhumanism sci-fi and resleeving (think Altered Carbon) but as I am into the books cited on the site, I will give it a read and maybe a play once it comes out.

I also want to try running a Warhammer 40K Ork Game.. not using Rogue Trader or Dark Heresy as I don't think Grimdark fits playing as Orks quite well.

[Pale Ale]

I got Tobias (Arrested Development) and angry little old bible thumper, and a night-schooled overly litigious lawyer, ASSHOLES.

One think I learned long ago, if your players don't make you groan out loud as they describe the character. They don't feel they've done a good enough job.


One of the guys is excited over Eclipse Phase the RPG that is all about the transhumanism sci-fi and resleeving (think Altered Carbon) but as I am into the books cited on the site, I will give it a read and maybe a play once it comes out.


I'm pretty sure Eclipse Phase came out. They also did a legal torrent of the file because they understand the market, and audience. ;)

[Smoof]

I've played D&D in other editions and feel exactly the same way... i just personally don't see a useful distinction in saying "this makes it an rpg" and "this makes it a board game" when one is the game and other a mechanic that can be used while playing it. If you like using mechanics or not is a personal preference, and i happen to have both a better game from a mechanics side and a better game from a roll playing side when using maps and minnies...

I'm with you, Cod. I find it easier to use minis as reference points for when it comes to battles. I don't have to worry about drawing a map or having the DM draw a map and notify me to where I am and where I want to go. I can just move my mini as many feet as he can move and I no longer have to worry about where I'm standing or contesting some particular happening with the DM. Everyone knows where they're at.

For the record, I've played both with and without minis, the latter being how I played for a long time. My friends and I in our new 3.5 game are playing without minis and while it definitely has it's advantages, it's also got it's minor annoyances.

[Karak]

I'm with you, Cod. I find it easier to use minis as reference points for when it comes to battles. I don't have to worry about drawing a map or having the DM draw a map and notify me to where I am and where I want to go. I can just move my mini as many feet as he can move and I no longer have to worry about where I'm standing or contesting some particular happening with the DM. Everyone knows where they're at.

For the record, I've played both with and without minis, the latter being how I played for a long time. My friends and I in our new 3.5 game are playing without minis and while it definitely has it's advantages, it's also got it's minor annoyances.

I have a question for you. Doesn't the DM till you where you are? Can't you tell him where you want to go? I am asking because the only mapping we ever do is when we are in a new place and we are making a...map.
But what do you mean drawing a map of where you want to go? I ask because I am thinking maybe I am misunderstanding what everyone means by using mini's. Or there is...a freakish amount of confusion in some people's games that we don't have in ours. I can't see how there is any way to confuse where you are in a game, or where you want to go.
Thanks sir.

[Laughing Penguin]

One of the guys is excited over Eclipse Phase the RPG that is all about the transhumanism sci-fi and resleeving (think Altered Carbon) but as I am into the books cited on the site, I will give it a read and maybe a play once it comes out.


I've seen PDF copies being offered online, I am very interested to hear what you think once you dig into it. The concept seemed very cool, but I'm usually very hesitant to just buy books blindly these days since I really don't have a group to play in anymore. But if there are some big interesting ideas I will often spring for a copy just for the read (CthulhuTech was a good example of this).

I look forward to your review!

[Karak]

I've seen PDF copies being offered online, I am very interested to hear what you think once you dig into it. The concept seemed very cool, but I'm usually very hesitant to just buy books blindly these days since I really don't have a group to play in anymore. But if there are some big interesting ideas I will often spring for a copy just for the read (CthulhuTech was a good example of this).

I look forward to your review!

How did you feel about CthulhuTech? I never got past like the first 25 pages. It just did not grab me.

[Superman's Dead]

I have a question for you. Doesn't the DM till you where you are? Can't you tell him where you want to go? I am asking because the only mapping we ever do is when we are in a new place and we are making a...map.
But what do you mean drawing a map of where you want to go? I ask because I am thinking maybe I am misunderstanding what everyone means by using mini's. Or there is...a freakish amount of confusion in some people's games that we don't have in ours. I can't see how there is any way to confuse where you are in a game, or where you want to go.
Thanks sir.

When I first saw miniatures used it was 3.5, and it was only for battles to make sure everyone knew where everything was. It's basically letting everyone see what the DM has on the map in front of him. Otherwise you can get upset players because they didn't realize there were six skeletons behind them, or other such nonsense. It always made sense to me.

[Karak]

When I first saw miniatures used it was 3.5, and it was only for battles to make sure everyone knew where everything was. It's basically letting everyone see what the DM has on the map in front of him. Otherwise you can get upset players because they didn't realize there were six skeletons behind them, or other such nonsense. It always made sense to me.

Hmm. Ok. Gotcha. Ya I don't think I have ever run into that confusion in a game. But if its possible, ya that would suck big time.
Edit:..I am assuming you mean the dm messed up and did not tell you like the location of them once you knew they were there, is that what you mean? I also think thats just lazy dm'ing. Its pretty easy to make sure everyone knows where everyone is just by saying it. Either that, or perhaps the game gets out of hand for lack of planning.
Double edit.
I gotcha. I saw the other such nonsense. I think I see what you mean.

[Superman's Dead]

Yeah, like...if you have two Jedi in a 4-way corridor, with three storm troopers down each hallway surrounding them, you can give more flavor if you know exactly where everyone is at all times. Which, like you said, is what a good DM does and describes to his players.

But if his players are making a map, and the DM has a map...why not let everyone have a huge map with pretty painted figures?

I don't understand it for anything other than combat, or why miniatures would become NECESSARY. Even with the 4E ruleset you can use chess pieces for the pushes and bursts and stuff

[TheKeck]

Hmm. Ok. Gotcha. Ya I don't think I have ever run into that confusion in a game. But if its possible, ya that would suck big time.
Edit:..I am assuming you mean the dm messed up and did not tell you like the location of them once you knew they were there, is that what you mean? I also think thats just lazy dm'ing. Its pretty easy to make sure everyone knows where everyone is just by saying it. Either that, or perhaps the game gets out of hand for lack of planning.
Double edit.
I gotcha. I saw the other such nonsense. I think I see what you mean.
I only started playing DnD about a year and a half ago. As I read about combat in the 3.5 SRD, there is an AWFUL lot of reference to distance, and squares, and five-foot steps, and flanking positions, and threatened squares, etc. I found it very difficult to keep track of all those details without some kind of map during combat. Shrug.

[Deadend]

I get the usage of minis, I think they can be useful, but my group tend to basically have pieces of papers with a letter on each one. Makes us think more abstract, and we only make up a map when an encounter/reason to need to know the stuff comes up. So we only need a map when it's decided that someone needs to get shot.

The Eclipse Phase book has some good lore, but is a bit vague on some stuff, and too detailed on other things. For better or worse.
The character generation seems quite complicated compared to the D20 stuff.. but there are character generation tools hosted on the site.

[Laughing Penguin]

How did you feel about CthulhuTech? I never got past like the first 25 pages. It just did not grab me.

Some interesting big ideas, and some really cool concepts, but seemed a bit unfocused overall. I'm not quite sure what the focus of a game should be, they seemed to leave it a bit too open. A lot of great ideas to adapt to other games though, and I do have a soft spot for Lovecraftian horror, so it was interesting enough.

[Karak]

I only started playing DnD about a year and a half ago. As I read about combat in the 3.5 SRD, there is an AWFUL lot of reference to distance, and squares, and five-foot steps, and flanking positions, and threatened squares, etc. I found it very difficult to keep track of all those details without some kind of map during combat. Shrug.

Oh I agree completely, don't get me wrong. 3.5 was the strong push to "Hasbro up" the DND franchise. And they did it well, with version 4 being an even greater success pushing that feeling. While you can agree together what a distance is or what five-feet is in game, they sort of almost make it a neccesity to use mini's. Always made me wonder how much of that was driven by the successes of other mini-only games coming out and growing in their popularity.
While it restricts many of the more colorful things you can do, or makes them impossible because there are no rules for it, it also makes it much easier for people to understand and just go forth and level up.
I also am much more of a role player than a rollplayer and grinding, powers, and collecting uber things I usually leave for video games, while I get my interaction and fantasy fix through roleplaying.
In addition, many of the games I play are not based on the 3.5 and 4 rules, for many other reasons having nothing to do with mini's but sort of more in line with the MMO vibe they push.

[Karak]

Some interesting big ideas, and some really cool concepts, but seemed a bit unfocused overall. I'm not quite sure what the focus of a game should be, they seemed to leave it a bit too open. A lot of great ideas to adapt to other games though, and I do have a soft spot for Lovecraftian horror, so it was interesting enough.

I felt the same, but for me, since they were trying to describe Lovecraft I kept expecting more atmosphere but never got it.
I always felt like they had alot of spirit behind the book but not alot of actual talent or collected thoughts.

I felt the same about..>Dragontech. Horrible book ug.

[TheKeck]

Oh I agree completely, don't get me wrong. 3.5 was the strong push to "Hasbro up" the DND franchise. And they did it well, with version 4 being an even greater success pushing that feeling. While you can agree together what a distance is or what five-feet is in game, they sort of almost make it a neccesity to use mini's. Always made me wonder how much of that was driven by the successes of other mini-only games coming out and growing in their popularity.
While it restricts many of the more colorful things you can do, or makes them impossible because there are no rules for it, it also makes it much easier for people to understand and just go forth and level up.
I also am much more of a role player than a rollplayer and grinding, powers, and collecting uber things I usually leave for video games, while I get my interaction and fantasy fix through roleplaying.
In addition, many of the games I play are not based on the 3.5 and 4 rules, for many other reasons having nothing to do with mini's but sort of more in line with the MMO vibe they push.
Ah, I see. I can't speak for anything before 3.5. I do take issue when people say that you can't get just as in depth role play (vs "roll play") in a particular version of DnD. (The argument these days is always about 4 vs 3.5.) But that's a whole other discussion that's already been had on this site. :)

[Karak]

Ah, I see. I can't speak for anything before 3.5. I do take issue when people say that you can't get just as in depth role play (vs "roll play") in a particular version of DnD. (The argument these days is always about 4 vs 3.5.) But that's a whole other discussion that's already been had on this site. :)

Well. I guess it depends on your definition of roleplay. If your talking about playing a character in a fantasy world and such and such sure, you can. But if you rollplay its not possible to have the depth in 4 as say in the 2nd ed or older. But that's just DnD, which, though it is the primary system, is no where near the best. In fact, it's not even suggested to try to roleplay in the later systems as much. It's one of the reasons they removed so many of the roleplaying rules in the game. I mean they aren't even there.

I could be wrong, but does either 3.5 or 4th have rules for exp given for roleplaying?
Actually scratch that, you can have the same in depth but it requires some enormous work to correctly identify roleplaying parameters, XP, training of levels, complete adjustment of leveling up and so forth. I forgot that we did indeed do that earlier this year in one game. But it didn't stick.

I think what occurs, is people fight the system, trying to prove something can do everything. Which none of the systems can. WFRP is by far, the most flexible for our roleplaying group due to the 100% system, and basic game being pretty easy for adjustement without breaking other things, but some of the rules require detailed discussion before your first game even. And some, if not all, of the more rollplay style systems, break almost instantly when new rules are added unless they are checked with an incredible attention to detail. Hell their errata sections run larger that many other game books source material:)

So no system, is perfect, but many are set up to deal better with either roleplay or rollplay. I mean, you can fix up anything, it all depends on how much effort you want to do to get your system to stretch to something its not really designed for.

But the real issue is enjoyment and the fact that we all get it from DnD/WOD,WRPF, GURPS, RIFTS, or any of the systems. And thats cool. I always worried that with videogames the death of DnD was near. And though they changed 4th to mimic MMO's it's still in eccense DnD, and that's to their credit, while other systems have purposfully gone the complete other direction to make sure they do not appear the same way. I am very happy about that. Without roleplaying with my friends I would be incredibly unhappy.

[Panthera]

Ah, I see. I can't speak for anything before 3.5. I do take issue when people say that you can't get just as in depth role play (vs "roll play") in a particular version of DnD. (The argument these days is always about 4 vs 3.5.) But that's a whole other discussion that's already been had on this site. :)

Well, the thing is that while you can have fun RP in anything, some games support and encourage it better than others. 3.5 and previous editions actually do have systems to support it. 4e has an ungainly emphasis on combat powers, with a massive de-emphasis on unique class and racial abilities that have any effect when you're not fighting something.

In my mind, 1st through 3rd edition D&D aren't really that different in intent. The only real difference between 1e, 2e and 3e are that the first two are a hodgepodge of a hundred different systems, while 3e tries to rein it all in and unify everything to varying degrees of success. 4e, on the other hand, is a significantly different game that has intentionally decoupled itself with D&D's original sense of gygaxian realism.

For example, special attacks for fighters in 3e are all about trying to represent something a fighter might want to do. A power attack makes a sort of tangible sense. A tradeoff between chance to hit and damage. We can picture that. A fighter might want to charge into battle, so there's a system for that. He might want to push an opponent aside, so there's a system for that.

In 4e, well... what's a Reaping Strike, why is it different from an ordinary attack, and where does the automatic damage come from? What are they trying to represent? It all makes sense from a game design and balance perspective, but it's not trying to simulate or illustrate anything. And that's fine - not every game has to be like that. But if I'm playing a roleplaying game, I want a system that's internally consistent enough roleplay in.

[Karak]

Well, the thing is that while you can have fun RP in anything, some games support and encourage it better than others. 3.5 and previous editions actually do have systems to support it. 4e has an ungainly emphasis on combat powers, with a massive de-emphasis on unique class and racial abilities that have any effect when you're not fighting something.

In my mind, 1st through 3rd edition D&D aren't really that different in intent. The only real difference between 1e, 2e and 3e are that the first two are a hodgepodge of a hundred different systems, while 3e tries to rein it all in and unify everything to varying degrees of success. 4e, on the other hand, is a significantly different game that has intentionally decoupled itself with D&D's original sense of gygaxian realism.

For example, special attacks for fighters in 3e are all about trying to represent something a fighter might want to do. A power attack makes a sort of tangible sense. A tradeoff between chance to hit and damage. We can picture that. A fighter might want to charge into battle, so there's a system for that. He might want to push an opponent aside, so there's a system for that.

In 4e, well... what's a Reaping Strike, why is it different from an ordinary attack, and where does the automatic damage come from? What are they trying to represent? It all makes sense from a game design and balance perspective, but it's not trying to simulate or illustrate anything. And that's fine - not every game has to be like that. But if I'm playing a roleplaying game, I want a system that's internally consistent enough roleplay in.
Thanks for the food for thought. That is actually some interesting things you wrote there.

[Lint of Death]

I've become more of a regular DM for a real-life game of 4th edition! My little badge of pride right now, apart from having successfully made it a fun (and quite humorous) game for all, but I convinced a guy who was against 4th to really like it! :D

And, so I feel like I'm contributing to the discussion at hand, I have been making sure to encourage as much roleplaying and in-character behavior as I can. My personal opinion is that 4th edition facilitates roleplay far better than 3.5 through things like Skill Challenges (a primarily non-combat system for using skills to achieve goals), and a streamlining of many systems like deities, alignments, and even the available skills.

Example: If you wanted to be a blacksmith, performer, or any such thing in 3.5, you had to dump skill points into them, discouraging most players from even bothering because it would mean giving up a lot in other respects - fighters get almost no skill points at all, so little hope of knowing how to forge your own armor! In 4th edition, those 'skills' - heck, even skill ranks at all - no longer exist, so you can simply include things like knowing how to sail a ship or sing in your background.

[Lint of Death]

Well, the thing is that while you can have fun RP in anything, some games support and encourage it better than others. 3.5 and previous editions actually do have systems to support it. 4e has an ungainly emphasis on combat powers, with a massive de-emphasis on unique class and racial abilities that have any effect when you're not fighting something.

In my mind, 1st through 3rd edition D&D aren't really that different in intent. The only real difference between 1e, 2e and 3e are that the first two are a hodgepodge of a hundred different systems, while 3e tries to rein it all in and unify everything to varying degrees of success. 4e, on the other hand, is a significantly different game that has intentionally decoupled itself with D&D's original sense of gygaxian realism.

In 4e, well... what's a Reaping Strike, why is it different from an ordinary attack, and where does the automatic damage come from? What are they trying to represent? It all makes sense from a game design and balance perspective, but it's not trying to simulate or illustrate anything. And that's fine - not every game has to be like that. But if I'm playing a roleplaying game, I want a system that's internally consistent enough roleplay in.

I disagree very much here. 4e does something that is very strange, and is not easy to see when reading the rulebooks: despite all the in-depth rules and mechanics given for powers and combat, the game is actually embracing abstraction as a key element in roleplaying games.

"Gygaxian realism", as you call it, is a serious hindrance to roleplay. Believe it or not, some aspects of the game have acknowledged this, like saving throws or combat. It has been abstracted out to have properties like 'armor class' to represent defenses, rather than having "Called shots" that let you have different effects because you want to specifically kick someone in the junk or an unprotected neck to achieve special effects. This abstraction of combat let you try to attempt such specific actions for the sake of roleplay/visuals, but meant little to the rules.

4th edition brings this abstraction, that was so useful to combat, to everything. To say that the races and classes are almost completely geared to combat benefits is wrong. The best example I can give is the Wizard: look at the cantrips: Ghost Sound, Light, Mage Hand, and Prestidigiation cover almost every magician's trick, and now, unlike previous editions, wizards can use them as often as they want!

Game design and balance are important for fun, but the powers are not representative of nothing. Every single power comes with 'flavor text' to help give an idea for what your character might be doing, but deliberately keeps things open enough to put your own spin on it. "Reaping Strike", to use your example, depicts a fighting style that is so full of quick, supplemental jabs that something is bound to bypass the target's defenses.

Even beyond that, all classes have Utility Powers, which, though they may have uses in combat, are often designed to be handy outside. A druid can turn into a little bird for a time, or a cleric can craft a flying horse-and-chariot out of cloudstuff.

As for the races, their noncombat specialties are mechanically represented by their powers (Eladrin can teleport, for example), and that every race has bonuses to certain skills (remember, skills are streamlined and further abstracted in 4e, making their utility out-of-combat more meaningful). There is a lot of text given as to how these races behave and what they look like, etc. On top of that, their online Dragon magazine periodically releases special articles that go very in-depth into certain races, describing their origins, philosophies, societies, and thensome.

4th edition, as I see it, is an excellent reconciliation of the abstractness important to roleplay and the fun of a solid game.

edit: I should have mentioned, a good way to see just how important roleplay is to 4th edition is to look at the paragon paths and epic destinies.

[Panthera]

"Gygaxian realism", as you call it, is a serious hindrance to roleplay. Believe it or not, some aspects of the game have acknowledged this, like saving throws or combat. It has been abstracted out to have properties like 'armor class' to represent defenses, rather than having "Called shots" that let you have different effects because you want to specifically kick someone in the junk or an unprotected neck to achieve special effects. This abstraction of combat let you try to attempt such specific actions for the sake of roleplay/visuals, but meant little to the rules.

You call it a serious hindrance, I call it a necessity for establishing a solid suspension of disbelief. I'm not really sure you do know what I mean by abstraction and gygaxian realism.

Fact is, for 4th edition, a lot of the systems aren't abstracting anything. They're not abstractions, they're pure gameplay systems. D&D is possibly my least favorite of the roleplaying games that I've tried, and when you take away the abstract sense of simulation, you've taken away my reason to play D&D. I'd rather stick with 3e or play something else.

4th edition brings this abstraction, that was so useful to combat, to everything. To say that the races and classes are almost completely geared to combat benefits is wrong. The best example I can give is the Wizard: look at the cantrips: Ghost Sound, Light, Mage Hand, and Prestidigiation cover almost every magician's trick, and now, unlike previous editions, wizards can use them as often as they want!

You don't need to explain this stuff to me. I ran a game of 4th edition for a few months to make up my own mind, so I know how it works. I liked how skill challenges work enough to consider backporting it into 3.5, but that's about the best thing I can say about it.

I dislike wizards being able to cast spells indefinitely, but that's a personal preference rather than anything about abstraction or realism.

Game design and balance are important for fun, but the powers are not representative of nothing. Every single power comes with 'flavor text' to help give an idea for what your character might be doing, but deliberately keeps things open enough to put your own spin on it. "Reaping Strike", to use your example, depicts a fighting style that is so full of quick, supplemental jabs that something is bound to bypass the target's defenses.


I don't buy it. There's flavor text, yeah, but it's just flavor. By ignoring the opponent's defenses for automatic damage, you've made the combat a bit more like attacking a number instead of attacking a foe. The powers were defined first, then the flavor was put in to justify them, and it shows. Furthermore, the way characters are built as a collection of these powers never felt right to me. It's just fantasy, but it still doesn't feel right for a roleplaying game.

Healing surges are the final nail in the coffin for me. Why are there so many power that involve attacking and healing your allies at the same time? Because their design assumption is not attacking every round is not having fun.

4th edition, as I see it, is an excellent reconciliation of the abstractness important to roleplay and the fun of a solid game.

All roleplaying games are abstract. I'm not talking about a spectrum between crunchy realism and abstraction, I'm talking about the underlying assumptions that lead one game to feel believable and the other to feel like a board game. 4th edition falls squarely under the latter, no matter how much you personally enjoy it. And I'm glad you're having fun! Just don't expect it to be for everyone.

I have no doubt that you have great roleplay in your campaign. You can make a great roleplaying game out of Monopoly. When it comes down to it, the more important thing is the people you play with, not the game system itself.

[Panthera]

On abstraction... If we imagine a spectrum of more abstract to less abstract...

<More Abstract--------------------Less Abstract>

Games like Mouseguard and Vampire would be on the left side, and stuff like GURPS and Rolemaster would be on the far right.

All editions of D&D would occupy almost exactly the same spot, somewhere in the middle. The big difference between 4e and previous editions is not that 4e is more abstract, it's that one tries to make sense and the other tries not to makes sense.

[Karak]

I think for this argument I would go back to the original and then updated design docs for 4th, which state pretty clearly they were going to a more combat based, less flexible but easier to dm for beginners, game.
I mean they made that blatently clear that the roleplaying would fall on people going out of the box, rather than helping them with in the box suggestions/roleplaying breakdowns and specific rules concerning roleplaying. And to back them up further, many of the changes have helped their gaming leagues and so forth, where a single alteration to a character that didn't have a specific rule associated with it could break everything. More solid combat rules were needed for much of the game.
I think I would have to agree that you can roleplay any game you wanted if you wanted, but that would be all on the players which in someway is what 4th has done.

I guess I prefer a system that is geared more around roleplaying than rollplaying so that I can be fairly assured that both have at least some rules assisting me in both aspects of the game.

Having DM'ed for going on 20 years, I think that many games past and present do a excellent job with both. But some are simply better balanced for one or the other. No harm no foul its just the way they are built.

I for one am happy as can be that new people are loving 4th. It gets more people interested in a game I find to be freakishly enjoyable in a world quickly shutting down when it comes to true personal interaction.

[Karak]

On abstraction... If we imagine a spectrum of more abstract to less abstract...

<More Abstract--------------------Less Abstract>

Games like Mouseguard and Vampire would be on the left side, and stuff like GURPS and Rolemaster would be on the far right.

All editions of D&D would occupy almost exactly the same spot, somewhere in the middle. The big difference between 4e and previous editions is not that 4e is more abstract, it's that one tries to make sense and the other tries not to makes sense.

And where would Rifts be? Hahahah.
Sorry I just so hate Rifts rules I had to bring it up. A wonderful world, wrapped around the most broken of systems.

[Borthcollective]

It's amazing how much stuff is out for a system that is so poorly implemented.

[Karak]

It's amazing how much stuff is out for a system that is so poorly implemented.

I am assuming your talking about Rifts and not 4th, since that was the last post?
And your right. It is a fucking weird thing. But Pallidium gives me three things most other companies don't.
1 Amazing locations that are trully amazingly thought out sometimes
2 Cheaper. Their prices, for the most part, are amazingly low on most of their items.
3 Options options options....and more options.
If the rules were so fucking broken as to be useless, I would play nothing else. And the fact that it also does not give many rules for roleplaying or assistance in that field. The world is still amazingly well done.

If you meant 4th, I can't comment as I only have the sourcebooks.

[Lint of Death]

I have read the website SomethingAwful's writeups on Rifts, so I know that series is nuts, but I will say that the 4th edition supplements are, with minimal exception (they have so little errata for a reason), thoroughly excellent material. The new Dungeon Master's Guide 2 and less-new Monster Manual 2 have been well worth my money, as has my occasional Insider subscription. The class-supplement books have tons of new options for character archetypes, loads of info for how to flesh out character ideas and backgrounds*, and more.

Maybe there's something I don't understand about this 'roleplay vs rollplay' thing. It seems to me that 4th edition facilitates roleplay in every way I have imagined and then some. What do these other systems have that it doesn't?

*For example, Divine Power goes in-depth to show how each currently released divine class (Cleric, Paladin, Avenger, Invoker) might differently serve each god in the standard pantheon.

[Karak]

I have read the website SomethingAwful's writeups on Rifts, so I know that series is nuts, but I will say that the 4th edition supplements are, with minimal exception (they have so little errata for a reason), thoroughly excellent material. The new Dungeon Master's Guide 2 and less-new Monster Manual 2 have been well worth my money, as has my occasional Insider subscription. The class-supplement books have tons of new options for character archetypes, loads of info for how to flesh out character ideas and backgrounds*, and more.

Maybe there's something I don't understand about this 'roleplay vs rollplay' thing. It seems to me that 4th edition facilitates roleplay in every way I have imagined and then some. What do these other systems have that it doesn't?

*For example, Divine Power goes in-depth to show how each currently released divine class (Cleric, Paladin, Avenger, Invoker) might differently serve each god in the standard pantheon.

ya Rifts is ca-ra-zy.

I think its sort of been explained to death concerning roleplay versus rollplay. There's many previous posts that explain it. Each system has it's strengths and weaknesses. Nothing is wrong, bad, or lacking in craftsmanship due to not being strong in certain departments.

If 4th is working for you thats awesome. Its working for many many people. And thats great for the industry. Excellent really. In the end that's all that matters.

People will search for their golden game and feel akin to its strengths regardless of anything missing. That's whats awesome about so many systems being out there.

EDIT: Kudo's for being able to read SomethingAwful. Their reviews make my head hurt. Maybe one or two times I can get through it but 13 pages of 2 kids arguing...I see that at COG:)

[Lint of Death]

EDIT: Kudo's for being able to read SomethingAwful. Their reviews make my head hurt. Maybe one or two times I can get through it but 13 pages of 2 kids arguing...I see that at COG:)

Rifts Core Book (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/dungeons-and-dragons/wtf-dnd-rifts.php)
Rifts World Book Japan (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/dungeons-and-dragons/rifts-japan.php)

They're part of the somewhat misleading "WTF, D&D?!" series, one of my favorites the site has ever done - usually they delve into the oldest D&D Monster Manuals and adventure books to make fun of the absurdities you can find in them. Yeah they are framed as a dialogue between the truly gifted Zach Parsons and Chris "Malak" Sumner. Basically the format Parsons used to do with somebody else when making fun of horrifying fashion, but here they use it since a big part of it is making fun of art/monster concepts. Parsons plays something akin to a straight man while "Malak" plays a ... well, he's quite a character! :p

[Karak]

Rifts Core Book (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/dungeons-and-dragons/wtf-dnd-rifts.php)
Rifts World Book Japan (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/dungeons-and-dragons/rifts-japan.php)

They're part of the somewhat misleading "WTF, D&D?!" series, one of my favorites the site has ever done - usually they delve into the oldest D&D Monster Manuals and adventure books to make fun of the absurdities you can find in them. Yeah they are framed as a dialogue between the truly gifted Zach Parsons and Chris "Malak" Sumner. Basically the format Parsons used to do with somebody else when making fun of horrifying fashion, but here they use it since a big part of it is making fun of art/monster concepts. Parsons plays something akin to a straight man while "Malak" plays a ... well, he's quite a character! :p
Ya I enjoyed a little bit of their stuff and I did take a glance at the rifts stuff but its so forced now. Sort of reminds me of those game reviews...damn I can't remember, where the guy has all the little stick figures and random shit and disses on games the entire time. For some reason when something is forced it becomes quickly boring to me.
Though their teasing of the badly drawn Asian man, made me chuckle big time.

[Panthera]

Maybe there's something I don't understand about this 'roleplay vs rollplay' thing. It seems to me that 4th edition facilitates roleplay in every way I have imagined and then some. What do these other systems have that it doesn't?

Sigh... have I been writing all this for nothing? It's not the systems, it's the intent.

[Superman's Dead]

Maybe there's something I don't understand about this 'roleplay vs rollplay' thing. It seems to me that 4th edition facilitates roleplay in every way I have imagined and then some. What do these other systems have that it doesn't?

*For example, Divine Power goes in-depth to show how each currently released divine class (Cleric, Paladin, Avenger, Invoker) might differently serve each god in the standard pantheon.

The skill-sets of 3.5 made it a lot easier to differentiate a character. When you had Swim and Climb and Ride Animal, you could make a character unique. Now there's...endurance. I think there's just a lot more specialization you could do. Instead of having a power you use that becomes your trademark, you can describe your character's specific way of attack. Stuff like that.

[Karak]

Sigh... have I been writing all this for nothing? It's not the systems, it's the intent.

No, we have all been writing. It has to do with opinions. Which is, in the end, all any of us have.
My opinion is that I am tired and going to bed:)
Thanks all for the wonderful talks. It's nice to chat DND when all I do all day is live in the now.

[Borthcollective]

Yep, I was talking about Rifts.

[Karak]

Yep, I was talking about Rifts.
I figured as much. What a unique game. I often wonder just how popular it would be if they went with dice pools, or card style, or saga rules, or 100% like WFRP.
A couple months ago I made characters for a game with a guy who GM's it often. About 3 hours into it, I actually gave up. I just literally threw my hands up in the air and had to stop. Just too much crap.

[Panthera]

Could be worse. You could have been playing F.A.T.A.L.

[Ondo]

The big difference between 4e and previous editions is not that 4e is more abstract, it's that one tries to make sense and the other tries not to makes sense.
Imagine a spectrum of games, defined by the reasons for the rules - on the right side we have games where the rules are primarily designed to be realistic and make sense, and on the left side we have rules designed for fun gameplay. Certainly D&D 4e would be on the far left, but earlier editions would only be a little farther right. The fundamentals of the system - class, level, experience, HP, AC - they're all there for a fun game, not to make sense.

[Panthera]

Which is great for a computer game or board game, but not what I desire in a roleplaying game.

[Pale Ale]

Making characters doesn't count.

That first session can be a fluke.

Ran a/the second session of Burning Empires. Friggin Sweet!

[NotJeff]

Most of my games lately have been Dominion with expansions, but my favorites right now are Power Grid and Steam.

The complete list. (http://boardgamegeek.com/plays/bydate/user/NotJeff/subtype/All)

[BrassGecko]

Catan! I've played it a lot at various points, and now I have my own set. It has also lead to this:

http://www.flexamail.com/GetImage.ashx?id=1515

Sheep were killed in the making of this image at 4:1, 3:1 and 2:1

[Heretic Machine]

Just got back from my 2nd ED campaign night. Had a ton of fun, and got many loots. My character went from 10-13 tonight (or maybe 14, I can't remember; either way I have a uon stone that raises my level by one more, and now have access to 7th level spells). The Tower of Zagyg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zagyg) is fucking win, apparently. In a single room, we got (get this) 39 wishes.

39 wishes.

Basically, we got a bunch of jars, with djinn in them, each with three wishes. This was down in the bottom of the tower, where Zagyg kept all of his best stuff. We also got three million in gold, at least. On top of that, we have a +5 spear for our monk, some other spear we aren't sure of, a helm of opposite alignment, a motherfucking spelljammer ship, stat points all around (four points for everyone)... It was pure insanity. Hell, we used one of the wishes to locate a Staff of the Magi that we knew was in one of the towers, and teleported over there to grab it with this mirror we have. I then passed my Staff of Power down to the rogue/mage.

We then took down an Elder Demilich without a scratch on the party. He was apparently Zagyg's oldest apprentice. We're not sure where to go next: We found a portal to Ravenloft down there, we have the spelljammer ship, and Zagyg also suggested that we go see a wizard (Rary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rary)) who has a plan to take down Iuz. I'm tempted to take that spelljammer ship for a spin, personally, but that is just how my gnome rolls.

EDIT: This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhawk_Ruins) is the adventure we've been tooling around in for a while now.

[Panthera]

My players decided all of a sudden that it's time to take a break from D&D and get started on the GURPS Vikings game that we've been planning. I had forgotten how tedious character creation is, but with that out of the way I look forward to truly manly and heroic feats and old-fashioned head-smashing and limb-lopping.

[Lance Uppercut]

I learned how to play Dominion today, and it's pretty badass. I'll have to get my own set now.

[Karak]

I learned how to play Dominion today, and it's pretty badass. I'll have to get my own set now.

Sounds good. I may try it out this weekend.

[Scull]

Dominion is fantastic! Everyone should play it a couple of times. I have some friends that are avid D&D'ers but look at me like I'm crazy when I pull out a board game. Over Christmas the D&D game fell through and I forced them to play board games with me and they wouldn't let me stop playing Dominion. We played for nearly 9 hours non-stop, and two days later they forced me to play again for a bout 4 more hours. It is a really fun game and very addictive.

[NotJeff]

Dominion is fantastic!

...

It is a really fun game and very addictive.

My group will sometimes take the 70+ blue cards in one deck (with the expansions), and play 7 consecutive games, using most of the cards once.

With 6-8 people, sometimes we'll do this and pass the sets of 10 around so that two tables play the same setups.

[zarathstra]

My players decided all of a sudden that it's time to take a break from D&D and get started on the GURPS Vikings game that we've been planning. I had forgotten how tedious character creation is, but with that out of the way I look forward to truly manly and heroic feats and old-fashioned head-smashing and limb-lopping.

GURPS is awesome because you can do literally anything with it, and once you've gotten through character creation, the system is super easy to use. I have the official character generator if you're interested. PM me.

[Panthera]

GURPS is awesome because you can do literally anything with it, and once you've gotten through character creation, the system is super easy to use. I have the official character generator if you're interested. PM me.

Yeah, I did manage to track down a copy of that. It's useful for whipping up NPCs.

Actually, that's the hardest part of the system so far - there's not a lot of pregenerated foes/adversaries/monsters. There's animals in the Campaigns book and I found a Historical Folks document that should work well enough as a base. Then again, there's also a lot fewer combat stats to write down than D&D and I can always just fudge their other skills.

[Smoof]

I finally got to REALLY roleplay on thursday night. I've always wanted to but most of my friends are all about hack n slash dungeon crawling. But thursday, it was just 3 of us, the 3 that like to roleplay, so we played the Star Wars rpg. I played a scoundral and managed to bluff my way through the entire quest, mostly avoiding combat situations and even managing to acquire some storm trooper armor to help. It was awesome, easily my best PnP experience ever.

[Hauser1981]

Going to play Settlers of Catan, Smallworld, Kingsburg, Carcassonne and a few others here in about an hour. Would play Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition but one guy doesn't like it. May finally play my copy of Axis and Allies

[Karak]

Going to play a 6 hour group of games.
Looks like Gloom mostly, which has become my new favorite.

[Karak]

Going to play Settlers of Catan, Smallworld, Kingsburg, Carcassonne and a few others here in about an hour. Would play Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition but one guy doesn't like it. May finally play my copy of Axis and Allies

Whomever doesnt like Twilight Imperium may be a "fun imposter" check his boardgame love at the door:)

[NotJeff]

Whomever doesnt like Twilight Imperium may be a "fun imposter" check his boardgame love at the door:)

TI is mostly great but suffers from a few issues which make it hard (for me) to justify playing a game that long. The biggest is the early-player advantage over later players imparted by the way the role that gives victory points tends to move circularly around the table. Most times we've played TI3 we've tried screwing with the rules to make that role less dominant, but we haven't hit anything we really like yet.

[ShivaX]

TI is mostly great but suffers from a few issues which make it hard (for me) to justify playing a game that long. The biggest is the early-player advantage over later players imparted by the way the role that gives victory points tends to move circularly around the table. Most times we've played TI3 we've tried screwing with the rules to make that role less dominant, but we haven't hit anything we really like yet.

Pretty sure the expansion changes that order.

In fact I'm almost positive, though I couldn't tell you the wording on the new card they replaced it with.

Edit: I haven't ever actually played, but I've read the rules. Heres the card synopsis:

8. THE IMPERIAL II STRATEGY
The primary ability of the Imperial II Strategy Card
offers the active player a choice. Option “a” gives the
active player the ability to fulfill multiple objectives
during the next Status Phase and provides 1 Victory
Point if the active player controls Mecatol Rex. Both
of these abilities allow a skilled player to gain crucial
extra points.
The primary ability’s option “b” allows the active
player to immediately execute the secondary ability
without having to pay any Command Counters. If this
option is chosen, no other players may execute the
secondary ability this round.
The secondary ability of the Imperial II Strategy Card
is the same as the original Imperial Strategy card’s
secondary ability: Each players may spend 1
Command Counter to produce units in a system he has
already activated, or produce units in an unactivated
system without activating it.

[Karak]

TI is mostly great but suffers from a few issues which make it hard (for me) to justify playing a game that long. The biggest is the early-player advantage over later players imparted by the way the role that gives victory points tends to move circularly around the table. Most times we've played TI3 we've tried screwing with the rules to make that role less dominant, but we haven't hit anything we really like yet.

Hmmm. I think we might have worked around that. I don't remember an issue with it. But its been a bit.

[NotJeff]

Hmmm. I think we might have worked around that. I don't remember an issue with it. But its been a bit.

Maybe you were playing with the expansion -- ShivaX's quote looks better than the original rules for sure.

[Lance Uppercut]

I got to play Last Night on Earth (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/29368/last-night-on-earth-the-zombie-game). The games get very tense, very fast, it's like Left 4 Dead the board game.

[Panthera]

Still loving GURPS. We had a tight four-session game of Vikings that told a story from beginning to end.

Then we moved to cyberpunk. The complexity (in combat, anyway) skyrocketed and character creation took several sessions, involving several 'simulator' fights to learn the system and figure out which skills and equipment were important. Then, because I'm just that evil, I declared that the last simulation faded from their eyes to reveal that they were standing in the top floor of a corporate highrise, having just killed the CEO of a megacorp without a clue how they got there. The series of events that followed as they tried to figure out how they got their and fight their way out of the building were so epic that it's best if I just quote the writeup one of the players made the day after from the perspective of the news chopper that was watching them:

BREAKING NEWS ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
AIRED: MARCH 29, 2032 - 23:04 EST
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ROBERT JUNE, GNN PRODUCER: We interrupt this broadcast for some breaking news.

JUNE: Just some minutes ago we recieved reports of a possible explosion in the downtown core. Reports indicate a possible terrorist attack on the Sellek Building. Sellek Innovations is a large military contractor and produces a variety of high-tech cybernetics and biological augmentations in addition to muntions.

JUNE: I... I believe we have Chris with the GNN chopper on the line now; Chris, are you there?

CHRIS LAW, GNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes Robert, I'm here. CHRIS LAW here with MegaCity NewsWatch. We're just now ariving on the scene of what appears to be a large explosion in the downtown core tonight. The explosion seems to have occured at the Sellek Building. Yes, I can see the damage now. There appears to be a large fire breaking out on the top floor and a large amount of the western wall of the building seems to be missing. The streets are filled with concrete and glass. Around the southern side of the building a large helicopter with corporate markings appears to have it's spotlight focused on the 25-th floor or so.

JUNE: Any signs of the terrorists Chris?

LAW: None yet, Rob. There doesn't appear to be anything happening at the mome~~ Wait there seems to be a firefight occuring on that floor, gunfire and some laserfire in one of the offices. The windows are shattered and... wait, is that someone coming out of the building? It looks like it is someone with a rope around their waist and attempting to rappel down the side of the building in his hand he's holding what appears to be a large sword. Who are these madm~~~

*GUNFIRE* / *WARNING SIRENS*

LAW: OH GO--- the attack helicopter has just opened fire with it's chaingun and the person outside the building seems to have slipped but was caught by the rope.

LAW: He seems to have caught himself. That would have been one hell of a fall. I can clearly see at least one other person on floor 29 who seems to be covering the window. The person at the bottom of the rope has just hacked through the 27th floor windows and is now somewhere inside and the person from above is now attempting to climb down.

*MORE GUNFIRE*

LAW: I can't imagine what is going on in these people's heads. Oh, the second person seems to have slipped and is now holding on to the ledge of the 27th floor. The rope appears to be being withdrawn back up to the 29th floor. There must be someone up there still. Yes, I can see some shots being fired back at the Helicopter now. It's taking fire! Now a thrid person seems to be emerging from the building and making their way down the side. There's at least one more person up there, more heavy gunfire on the helicopter from the 29th floor. I'm not sure what to make of this Rob. These people must be completely insane.

LAW: Alright, it seems they've all made it into the 27th floor and are taking cover somewhere inside; the helicopter appears to have taken significant damage and is backing off.

JUNE: Wow Chris, is everything still alright there?

LAW: Yes, everything appears to be quiet for now. We'll keep you informed from the skies.

JUNE: Thanks Chris; we're going to take you now to the ground where James Royce is reporting from within the SWAT group that is now surrounding the building.

JAMES ROYCE, GNN CORRESPONDANT: Thanks Rob. No one here is exactly sure what's going on. So far, all we know is that the there has been some form of terrorist bombing of the building, and the police are now attempting to take control of the situation. Roadblocks and cordons have been setup to manage traffic and any pedestrians and the SWAT crew is arriving now. Reports now indicate that while most of the building was evacuated, there is still a significant security presence inside; possibly as well as Rachel Sellek herself.

ROYCE: There appears to be some confusion around now; apparently something has happened to the internal security systems and camera~

*MASSIVE EXPLOSION / SCREAMS*

ROYCE: There's been another explosion, this time on the 27th floor as well as the 29th and 25th... it seems like the building is heaving badly now under the strain.

*CRASHES*

ROYCE: Holy shit, the building appears to be coming down, the 30th and 31st floor are gone and appear to be bringing each consecutive one down with it. And... something has happened on the 25th... I think someone jumped out above us... they're in a full di....

*MASSIVE EXPLOSION*

JUNE: James? Are you there James? Chris, what's going on?!

LAW: I'm not sure Rob, but it appears as if at least two people jumped from the 25th floor as the building was collapsing, then a massive explosion occured at the base of the building, right in the middle of the SWAT cordon. I'm not sure what's happening, but the collapse seems to have stopped around the 24th floor somewhere. It's unlikely that anyone could have survived that. The police are telling us we need to land, so I'll try and get a better picture from the ground.

JUNE: Thanks Chris. We'll continue our reporting in a moment. To anyone with further information, please call our newsline at 555-5128.

[shunoshi]

I decided to jump back into Legend of the Five Rings. I've been CCG-free for about a decade. I miss deck building and whatnot, plus now I have a bit more income than I did before. I just wish there was a solid way to play online. I understand why companies don't want to digitize their games lest the analog versions go extinct, but I think a version on XBLA wouldn't hurt. Sorta like Magic did. Although that left me wanting in the deck building department.

Oh, and I've been playing the hell out of Dominion and Intrigue.

[Karak]

Nothing.
I have had a real funk lately losing interest in boardgames, videogames and pretty much all the COG stuff. Not even sure why. Can't seem to care right now. Was going to play Zombies last weekend but canceled so I could watch Tron like 6 times hahahahahaha.

[NotJeff]

I have been playing lots (http://boardgamegeek.com/plays/bydate/user/NotJeff/subtype/boardgame) of Dungeon Lords, and I'd recommend it to any tricky-strategy-game fan. Thematically, it's Dungeon Keeper -- you and your fellow layers are competing to build the dungeon that does the best job of keeping out those pesky adventurers.

[Karak]

Heroscape right now. Got my wife into it and we have been playing a game or two every weekend. For a good cheap game, with limited collecting, its just good fun.

[Deadend]

Woo! I just GM'ed my first real set of sessions.

Eclipse Phase Quick Start. (http://eclipsephase.com/downloads/EclipsePhase_QuickStartRules.pdf) (PDF Warning)!

My friends and I have been hot to try it out (different group than the horrible session I mentioned in the other thread) and since I am a huge fan of the post-cyberpunk setting (Accelerando, Altered Carbon and such) I volunteered to GM. It's got a great system once we got used to it for the combat, as the way damage is dealt, it puts a great emphasis on the skill of the attacker and even tough robots don't take more than a few personal railgun rounds to take out of combat, and the whole way that armor, piercing armor and the wound system works was great. The wound is some number based on other numbers but can be say.. 8 or so, and most guns deal between 6 and 24 damage (minus armor absorption) every multiple of 8 inflicted gives a wound, which lowers all skills by 10 for every wound, and requires a check to see if the character falls down. It works because a guy can take 7 damage, and another 7, but isn't wounded, he's just been hurt a couple times.

Outside of the combat I tried to do my best to give my group freedom within the limited campaign, but also try and hint and show different ways of doing things. Like how they can use their various different skills as ways of finding the arms dealer they had to catch. Such as a character who has a high knowledge of Black Markets rolled to know that deals of that magnitude took place in Sector A, and another character used the Perception to notice that there were a couple places in the Sector that seemed particularly well guarded. Another player used their data skills to research those areas, found out 1 of them was new. They then went and talked with people to find out who was going into that newly guarded area. Then they decided to have a player pose as a potential buyer. They could have tried sneaking in, or bashing down the door, or hacking in and finding out the data on the weapons.

It's not totally new in that way, but the group was stuck thinking medievil D&D and acting in remote settlements, not the near ubiquitous surveillance of a city that is wired to the internet and characters are all wired with instant internet access in their brains rigged for looking up info mid-conversation. Getting them to think Eclipse Phase as it was.

Next week the campaign proper starts, and I plan on throwing them a twist, in the form of instead of being their characters, they are a major band of musicians who are touring the location, after a little while I plan to then have a trigger phrase uttered that causes the characters to regain their real memories of who they were and what their mission is as their implants and memories that were hidden to make it through immigration come online (yeah.. stolen from Glasshouse by Charles Stross), then since they have been introduced to the various important elements in the colony and their goals, letting them run loose in the place.

[Deadend]

And now I am Co-GMing/party-member for my friends overly huge game. 7 characters including mine.

We are trying to play the Kingmaker series from Pathfinder (which has 20 levels of content and involves empire building) but.. in 4th edition, as we wanted to make it.. Interesting.

Our first session the only combat encounter was a little easy, as it ended 1 move into the 2nd round and without a party member taking a hit. We didn't really get combat balancing in 4e, but have been reading up a bit.

I figure I will kill off my dude so it will be 6 players and 2 GMs, making it easier to manage (such as having 2 smaller sessions with 3 characters each) or resolving combat faster/whatever.

I like how 4e seems to be about trying to synergize with the other party members and that it really requires teamwork.

Yeah, it does feel like an MMO, but not like WoW, more like Age of Conan with the way it has Role then Class and how each classes attacks aren't just about damage, but about small buffs and debuffs that add up.

[Panthera]

Sounds like you're having fun with those! 4th edition really is focused on the mechanics, so if you're having a good time with them, great.

I've dropped back to AD&D 1st edition, and we're playing with the free OSRIC (http://www.knights-n-knaves.com/osric/) rules. It's been an absolute relief compared to 3rd edition. Old D&D is such a tight, focused game when you don't have all the addons lumped in and let it do what it does best - exploring the wilderness, random encounters, dungeons, basic logistics, and fast-paced ass kickery. I love how many combats we can rip through in a session and how tense everything is at first and second level. Also, there's no mage in the party and the only healer is a half-orc Fighter/Cleric, which nicely changes the flavour a bit.

I've been running them through the Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh and the Danger at Dunwater. Normally I don't bother with modules, but I consider the modules one of the best parts of AD&D 1st edition and a real part of the experience.

[Karak]

Runewars.
Not sure if I like it or not. Gonna have to give it 2-3 goes.

[zarathstra]

I've actually been itching to play some Star Fleet Battles lately. Yes, I know, I'm a madman.

[Panthera]

I've always wanted to play that. The idea of 'Star Trek meets ASL complexity' makes my nerd loins quiver.

[zarathstra]

I've always wanted to play that. The idea of 'Star Trek meets ASL complexity' makes my nerd loins quiver.

I know, right? Too bad you live in the Great White North, and I...don't.

[Panthera]

Google tells me there's a way to play it online: http://www.sfbonline.com/index.jsp

Though I'm not sure I'd want to pay a subscription fee for it. Failing that, there's always gametable (http://gametable.mornproductions.com/Index).

[zarathstra]

Google tells me there's a way to play it online: http://www.sfbonline.com/index.jsp

Though I'm not sure I'd want to pay a subscription fee for it. Failing that, there's always gametable (http://gametable.mornproductions.com/Index).

The problem with SFB Online is that the system doesn't actually know any of the rules. If you don't already know the game, its pretty useless, because it won't stop you from violating the rules if you don't know any better.

[Panthera]

That's not a 'problem', that's just how online gaming software works.

It makes it a lot harder to justify paying for it, though.

[zarathstra]

That's not a 'problem', that's just how online gaming software works.

It makes it a lot harder to justify paying for it, though.

Yeah. I need to re read the basic rules anyway. I might be up for it in the near future.

[Panthera]

Yeah, I'd need my own copy of the game, and that probably won't happen any time soon. I was just throwing it out there.