The Last Remnant [Archive] - Colony of Gamers

Evil Avnovice

10-16-2008, 07:30 PM

A new preview from IGN (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/920/920585p1.html). They go over the details of The Last Remnant's Magic/Arts/Items/Battle System.

In the world of The Last Remnant, you have a large amount of control over where and when you throw down. From what we've seen, there are no random encounters -- when you see an enemy wandering around on the world map, you can either skirt around it or get in close to engage.

Doing the latter puts you in a state called Deadlock, of which there are a number of varieties, depending on where each side's unions are placed and how they are facing. In a Flank Attack, a union is attacking an enemy from the side and deals extra damage as a result. If two unions flank an enemy union, then any further attacks will occur from the rear -- this results in a Rear Assault, which deals even greater damage. And you don't have to be within melee distance to engage an enemy. In a Raidlock, you can force a distant enemy into a Deadlock -- we're assuming with ranged attacks.

Combat Arts are offensive skills that deal more damage in battle than standard attacks. You'll use up AP when you deploy these attacks, but from what we've seen it'll be worth the cost. Square has shown off two Combat Arts -- Quad Slice and Devil's Due. The former lets your character wield four different weapons in their attack, slicing the enemy in a cross pattern. Ouch. The latter is a dual-wield Art lets you strike with two weapons at your sides. Square describes this action "as if striking imps perched on both shoulders." Serves them right.

In addition to Combat Arts, you'll also have access to Mystic Arts, essentially the magic system in The Last Remnant. These Arts also use AP and can be offensive, defensive or restorative (at both long and short ranges). The spell Caustic Blast, for example, surrounds enemies with "globules of acid" for heavy damage.

Item Arts use items from your inventory instead of AP and can be used to restore HP, buff your party or, we're assuming, hit the enemy with negative status effects like poison or paralysis. In an example Square showed, mixing abyssal tonic and shockberry results in something called Cyclone Cream, which sounds nasty.

And a little tidbit on Remnants themselves:

....Square today also included some more info about some of the Remnants themselves, ancient artifacts spread throughout the game world that have mysterious powers. Remnants show up in the form of treasure, insects, beasts or weapons, and some can aid you in battle by attacking groups of enemies on your behalf.

Evil Avnovice

10-16-2008, 07:32 PM

Six new videos (One trailer, Five gameplay) from IGN (http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/904/904861/vids_1.html). (Oct 16, 2008)

Evil Avnovice

10-17-2008, 01:07 PM

A couple of new scans. (Gamekyo)

http://www.gamekyo.com/Webmasters/Images/5818620081017_121739_1_big.jpg (http://www.gamekyo.com/images21_4_29273.html)

http://www.gamekyo.com/Webmasters/Images/5818620081017_121739_2_big.jpg (http://www.gamekyo.com/images22_4_29273.html)

rvieira

10-17-2008, 03:22 PM

I only have budget to 2 more game this year, one will be LBP for sure. The Last Remnant and Rock Band 2 are the contenders for the other...

:mad:Why I have to pay so much for car insurance!!!!:mad:

Sandman

10-17-2008, 03:23 PM

I only have budget to 2 more game this year, one will be LBP for sure. The Last Remnant and Rock Band 2 are the contenders for the other...

:mad:Why I have to pay so much for car insurance!!!!:mad:

Because your not saving 15% by switching to Geico?

Suave Peanut

10-17-2008, 04:00 PM

Oh. My. God.

Do. Absolutely. Want.

rvieira

10-17-2008, 06:00 PM

Because your not saving 15% by switching to Geico?

That caveman dude is way more smarter then me... (only know what Geico is because of some prize they win with the Caveman marketing campaign)

Evil Avnovice

10-18-2008, 02:25 PM

Three (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/41751.html) new (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/41749.html) videos (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/41747.html) from Gametrailers.

41751

41749

41747

Cpl_Punnishment

10-19-2008, 09:35 AM

man, looking better each time i see it.

bean

10-19-2008, 09:48 AM

The TGS walkthroughs in the original post make me really excited about the combat, though I had hoped it would be even bigger battles than this (maybe they just weren't shown).

The character art and the heavy handedness of the dialogue in the cinematic trailers leaves me cold though. It is so very Squenix. . . I guess I'm just getting kind of tired of their American/Asian hybrid characters and odd monsters. The only thing we are missing are "cute" characters, and I really am missing them. Give me a little black mage again please. I know that JRPG dialog is heavily influenced by Japanese culture and is supposed to be overwrought, but I've seen developers getting away from that with better dialog (Tales of Vesparia, Lost Odyssey, Final Fantasy X-2, Shadow Hearts) that isn't so up-it's-own-butt.

I'm still excited about this though. Suikoden is one of my favorite game series (if you forget the awful naval one), and this looks to make the big battles I loved in that game a primary focus. Accumulating characters and setting them up to work with great synergy in parties then going out and fighting large battles using all of them. . . well, that rocks. :)

Xerxes

10-19-2008, 02:04 PM

Spigot

10-19-2008, 02:41 PM

I need one of the Lost Odyssey zealots to get this and let me know how it stacks up.

I'll definately be getting Last Remnant at some point, but I have so much in my stack right now that I've barely touched that TLR is not something I'm even going to let enter my peripheral vision until well into next year. I need to at least finish Persona 3 and sink some quality time into Infinite Undiscovery and Tales Of Vesperia before dreaming of starting The Last Remnant.

King3567

10-19-2008, 05:20 PM

I still need to get Tales of Vesperia and Infinite Undiscovery :(

This'll have to wait till next summer (with another dozen or so games I'm passing up this fall XD)

Variable Gear

10-19-2008, 07:17 PM

Don't get Infinite Undiscovery, king. Rent that, and buy Tales if you feel like it.

Xerxes

10-19-2008, 08:03 PM

Don't get Infinite Undiscovery, king. Rent that, and buy Tales if you feel like it.
I'sn't IU already $40 bucks. The game will be $30 in no time.

King3567

10-19-2008, 08:09 PM

Don't get Infinite Undiscovery, king. Rent that, and buy Tales if you feel like it.

What's wrong with IU? I will be getting Tales for sure though.

Spigot

10-20-2008, 07:01 AM

What's wrong with IU? I will be getting Tales for sure though.IU is a very acquired taste. It is basically an everything-AND-the-kitchen-sink approach to JRPGs. It's not bad, though the production values do vary a bit... at times it will look gorgeous and do things never seen in the genre (or at least not done in this particular way) and other times it looks kind of crappy and is a mess to play.

It's a good game, but Tales is a much better game if you want to play things safe... plus it looks amazing.

I'm happy with having bought Infinite Undiscovery but it is definately not for the faint of heart.

EternalGamer

10-20-2008, 01:07 PM

I actually almost picked up Infinite Undiscovery yesterday because I saw it for $39. I already have Tales of Vesperia which I am playing through co-op, but i thought Infinite Undiscovery might be a nice single player diversion. It also appealed to me because it is not cell shaded and after both Eternal Sonata and Tales, I'm ready for a different aesthetic.

EternalGamer

10-20-2008, 01:11 PM

Is anyone else feeling a bit over the cutscene battle system in jrpgs? It seemed very jarring when a character ran up to a monster and then the action stopped to switch to a separate battle mode. It made sense in old games, because we weren't fighting with the same range of motion we had on the map/movement screen, but I feel the model has overstayed its welcome for me.

I don't mind it as long as you can see the enemies on screen. The "random enemies" is what I am over. Though having said that, they didn't really bother me in Lost Odyssey because everything was so well done (still having them would have made it better thought).

Final Fantasy XII didn't have them and while I liked that system, I'm not sure I want every RPG to mirror it.

Spigot

10-20-2008, 01:22 PM

I do prefer non random battles over invisible enemies, though I find that a lot of the time you can't avoid the enemies anyway, so it's kind of moot.

It's when you can't take 4 steps without having a random battle that I get angry at random battles.

EG: You should definately try Infinite Undiscovery, if only to play "Guess The Game That Had That Mechanic" meta-game. It's quite fun for those of us who play a lot of different JRPGs.

Schnoogs

10-20-2008, 01:25 PM

I clicked your links and watched the "Anti STD video game trailer"

bean

10-20-2008, 04:45 PM

It's when you can't take 4 steps without having a random battle that I get angry at random battles.

I absolutely LOVED Skies of Arcadia, but I never finished it because eventually I just couldn't stand fighting so many random battles. . . eventually, the red-headed girl can kill them all in a single round, but you have to watch the animation and I spent more time in battle than exploring. . . in a game that highly rewards exploring and has a great exploration system. I'd get out of battle and get my bearings to start exploring again, and BAM! Another fucking battle! It got so bad that in order to do anything, I was looking at the strategy guide in order to perfectly plan my movement to minimize travel time.

I knew that what I loved doing was uncovering the neat hidden landmarks and building up my town, but when I thought about traveling back and forth between the town I was building so I could actually enjoy it. . . well, I just gave up. It took too many licks to get to the center of that Tootsie Pop.

Spigot

10-20-2008, 05:17 PM

See, maybe it was just because it was pretty much par for the course back then, but I STILL don't remember Skies being that bad for random encounters. Maybe I just loved it so much that I was willing to look the other way. I don't know, but everyone who complains about the sheer volume of random encounters just didn't love the game enough to be a REAL fan :)

Evil Avnovice

10-23-2008, 08:54 PM

Some new images. (Gamekyo)

http://www.gamekyo.com/Webmasters/Images/58181320081023_191032_1_big.jpg (http://www.gamekyo.com/images1_4_29289.html)

http://www.gamekyo.com/Webmasters/Images/58181320081023_191033_2_big.jpg (http://www.gamekyo.com/images2_4_29289.html)

http://www.gamekyo.com/Webmasters/Images/58181320081023_191035_13_big.jpg (http://www.gamekyo.com/images13_4_29289.html)

http://www.gamekyo.com/Webmasters/Images/58181320081023_191035_14_big.jpg (http://www.gamekyo.com/images14_4_29289.html)

http://www.gamekyo.com/Webmasters/Images/58181320081023_191036_16_big.jpg (http://www.gamekyo.com/images16_4_29289.html)

http://www.gamekyo.com/Webmasters/Images/58181320081023_191036_17_big.jpg (http://www.gamekyo.com/images17_4_29289.html)

Xerxes

10-23-2008, 10:01 PM

/changing Pants

Off all the RPGS I have, this is the one I'm excited for.

bean

10-24-2008, 08:24 AM

Those menu pictures show a lot of promise. Hopefully there is some actual depth to that and it isn't just different flavors of suck with one "best" set up you copy over and over. Loving what I'm seeing so far.

Spigot

10-24-2008, 02:09 PM

Stop it, you vile temptress. I have no time to for the games I want to play, let alone the ones I have waiting for me to want to play them...

Xerxes

10-24-2008, 04:41 PM

Stop it, you vile temptress. I have no time to for the games I want to play, let alone the ones I have waiting for me to want to play them...

Bah, you'll buy it day one. You're like a mad man.

Evil Avnovice

10-27-2008, 01:27 PM

Two (http://www.gamekyo.com/videoen13435_the-last-remnant-new-gameplay-video.html) new (http://www.gamekyo.com/videoen13436_the-last-remnant-new-gameplay-video.html) gameplay videos from Gamekyo.

Evil Avnovice

10-31-2008, 01:13 PM

Some new images (http://www.gamekyo.com/newsen29307_the-last-remnant-new-screenshots.html). (Gamekyo)

http://www.gamekyo.com/Webmasters/Images/5818620081030_111322_0_big.jpg (http://www.gamekyo.com/images0_4_29307.html)

http://www.gamekyo.com/Webmasters/Images/5818620081030_111323_5_big.jpg (http://www.gamekyo.com/images5_4_29307.html)

http://www.gamekyo.com/Webmasters/Images/5818620081030_111324_17_big.jpg (http://www.gamekyo.com/images17_4_29307.html)

http://www.gamekyo.com/Webmasters/Images/5818620081030_111324_18_big.jpg (http://www.gamekyo.com/images18_4_29307.html)

http://www.gamekyo.com/Webmasters/Images/5818620081030_111325_24_big.jpg (http://www.gamekyo.com/images24_4_29307.html)

http://www.gamekyo.com/Webmasters/Images/5818620081030_111325_25_big.jpg (http://www.gamekyo.com/images25_4_29307.html)

Evil Avnovice

10-31-2008, 01:16 PM

A gameplay (http://www.gamekyo.com/videoen13478_the-last-remnant-new-gameplay-video-from-micromania.html) and presentation (http://www.gamekyo.com/videoen13485_the-last-remnant-long-presentation-from-micromania.html) video from Square Enix's Micromania Games Show 2008 in Paris.

The second video is in french.

Spigot

10-31-2008, 02:20 PM

Stop it stop it stop it stop it....

Evil Avnovice

10-31-2008, 10:26 PM

Stop it stop it stop it stop it....

Gee. I get tons of flack for not supporting those "HD Consoles", but when I do, I get flack for showing just a little support towards them....

I wish you guys would make up your minds. I think I liked it better when I was universally despised for nothing more than being such a Wii tool.

Kind of makes me wonder why y'all brought me here in the first place.... ;_; http://www.mazeguy.net/sad/melodramatic.gif:p

Xerxes

10-31-2008, 10:36 PM

Gee. I get tons of flack for not supporting those "HD Consoles", but when I do, I get flack for showing just a little support towards them....

I wish you guys would make up your minds. I think I liked it better when I was universally despised for nothing more than being such a Wii tool.

Kind of makes me wonder why y'all brought me here in the first place.... ;_; http://www.mazeguy.net/sad/melodramatic.gif:p

It's not lack of support. This is actually too enticing. Might be the next new thing from Square-Enix in a while.

Evil Avnovice

10-31-2008, 10:58 PM

Just between me and you, I still like *my* reason more. ;_;

Spigot

11-01-2008, 07:29 AM

It's not lack of support. This is actually too enticing. Might be the next new thing from Square-Enix in a while.Exactly. It's not that I don't want EvAvnovice posting pictures. I just don't want to have to hold him responsible when my willpower cracks yet again and I come home with the game on launch day.

It's the fact that EvAvnovice supports the crazy niche and genre specific stuff that I like that make me wish he'd stop posting things. Whenever I get the brain bug about a given game, it's really hard for me to shut it down and not get it.

Purple Santa

11-01-2008, 10:38 AM

Kind of makes me wonder why y'all brought me here in the first place.... ;_; http://www.mazeguy.net/sad/melodramatic.gif:p

Cause we can only pick on Spigot and obscure loving gaming ways only for so long. Besides, it didn't feel like home without the self proclaimed "wii too". :p

I swore off console RPG due to lack of time. Well most of them anyway...this one I might have to look at in January when hopefully...hopefully...i'll get to play something like this. This does look mighty tempting.

And Spigot? You know you will buy this...just breakdown and pre-order...

Spigot

11-01-2008, 03:02 PM

Oh, I want to get this. I just have far, FAR too much on my JRPG plate to even concider it any time soon. If it was being published by Atlus, on the other hand, I'd have it preordered and paid off by now.

Dark Prince

11-01-2008, 03:06 PM

This does look good, but I'll be damned if I have enough time to actually devote to this.

Anytime I start a new JRPG, I have to be extremely captured by the story by the story to actually continue. I haven't devoted a huge chunk of time to a JRPG, literally since FF7/8.

But, this has captured my interest so far...I only wonder if the demo will confirm a purchase from me or not...

Evil Avnovice

11-10-2008, 02:55 PM

A new preview (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/928/928026p1.html) by IGN.

It begins with the Union Board. This is where you will manage the party in hopes of setting up a winning team, a process that can be equally as important as what you do in the fight itself. The Last Remnant battles work on a system where individual units are grouped into unions. These unions share everything from hit points to attack commands, so it's important that you group characters that will work well together. You can have up to five units in each union which, after you consider multiple unions in battle at once, makes for quite a large battle. Of course, at the beginning of the game you'll be limited as to how many people you can take into battle.

But back to the Union Board. As you recruit new characters, you'll want to get them prepared for the fight. From the board, you can decide who is going in each union and what formation they should take. New formations are learned as you progress through the game and they allow you to do things like place heavy hitters at the front lines to protect your spellcasters in the back. Which formation you go with will directly affect your stats, adding another wrinkle to the pre-planning. You can even take it a step further, and you'll want to, by changing equipment and styles. This will affect which combat arts you can use in battle.

Here's how it works: Each party starts on opposite ends of the battlefield. Using a minimap, you can gauge where enemies are facing and their relative position compared to your unions. This is important, because the angle that you attack from can make a big difference. Approach from the side and you'll do bonus damage in a flank attack. Run head on and you'll enter a deadlock where each union, friend and foe, will only be able to attack each other until either one dies or one disengages (a move that can make you vulnerable).

Since the unions share everything, it is your job to give general commands to each of them and let each unit figure out what exactly to do for themselves. This can be a simple attack or heal command, or you might want to break out some combat arts or mystic arts (skills and spells). The more complex moves take longer to perform and use some action points, but in my experience are worth it. You can also give support and very generic commands, such as "play it by ear," to help another union at all costs, or to bring an all out attack. And, as is tradition, some units will be able to perform limit breaks after taking enough damage.

cawblen

11-10-2008, 03:31 PM

is this coming to the PS3 in 2009? i could have sworn i read that somewhere but i haven't been able to track the source down...some insight would be appreciated!

Evil Avnovice

11-10-2008, 05:14 PM

is this coming to the PS3 in 2009? i could have sworn i read that somewhere but i haven't been able to track the source down...some insight would be appreciated!

Xbox 360 (http://xbox360.ign.com/objects/904/904861.html): November 20, 2008
PS3 (http://ps3.ign.com/objects/904/904859.html): TBA 2009
PC (http://pc.ign.com/objects/904/904862.html): TBA

cawblen

11-10-2008, 05:16 PM

Xbox 360 (http://xbox360.ign.com/objects/904/904861.html): November 20, 2008
PS3 (http://ps3.ign.com/objects/904/904859.html): TBA 2009
PC (http://pc.ign.com/objects/904/904862.html): TBA

thanks man

Sandman

11-10-2008, 05:19 PM

It's only $40 on amazon? I am weak.

Kelegacy

11-11-2008, 06:36 PM

Did any of you foos preorder through Amazon other than me? For 40 clams, that's a good deal. You could resell it for that much at least if you didn't like it.

I took the chance, hopefully it's worth it. I hope it's a hidden gem in the 2008 tidal wave.

Spigot

11-11-2008, 06:47 PM

I eagerly await impressions on this game. I just cannot afford it until at least next year, but I hope it's decent!

rein

11-11-2008, 07:11 PM

I'm not 100% but I think if you use the Amazon ad on the front page to order COG will benefit. You can search for any game in the search box.

I may go the Gamefly route. Worst case it isn't as good as I think it will be and I send it back. Best case, it's great and I use the keep it now option. Using a reward coupon it will run me about the same as the Amazon price.

Kelegacy

11-11-2008, 07:20 PM

Yeah I ordered through CoG. Will do most of my future orders through CoG as well, whether they be books, games, dildos, whatever.

I'll let you know how it is, Spigot. They say the shipping date is the 25th, which is 5 days after the official release. Ah well, I have enough on my plate as it is now. Fallout 3 which is a super time sink (but oh I love it so) and Gears, which I'm only a few chapters into Act 2.

I'm also canceling Gamefly for now. I have too much to play to juggle rentals as well (plus turnaround times aren't great). I've been forced to play for a day or so and send back because of my full gaming schedule, which isn't cost effective. I might resume Gamefly next year, when I don't have so many games I OWN that I want to play.

Sandman

11-11-2008, 07:48 PM

I must be strong and not buy this day one....I will wait till January, February or even April to get it at budget price.

Evil Avnovice

11-15-2008, 01:23 PM

"Awaken" trailer. (Gametrailers (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/42728.html))

42728

Evil Avnovice

11-15-2008, 01:35 PM

Three other videos: (Gametrailers)

1. "Elysion Remnant" Cinematic (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/42570.html)

42570

2. "Dillmore" Cinematic (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/42565.html)

42565

3. "Battle of the Great Sand Sea" Gameplay (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/42563.html)

42563

Spigot

11-15-2008, 02:57 PM

No! Will not look!

Kelegacy

11-15-2008, 03:25 PM

No! Will not look!

I'll let you know how I like it next week. Then, depending on my recommendation or warning, you can make up your mind.

I really have no expectations for this, just blindly preordered via the Amazon deal bapenguin posted, through CoG. I have followed this title not at all. We'll see what happens. This is the first time I've done this in...well, in many years. Blindly preorder, that is.

Xerxes

11-16-2008, 12:54 AM

I'll let you know how I like it next week. Then, depending on my recommendation or warning, you can make up your mind.

I really have no expectations for this, just blindly preordered via the Amazon deal bapenguin posted, through CoG. I have followed this title not at all. We'll see what happens. This is the first time I've done this in...well, in many years. Blindly preorder, that is.

I have higher expectactions of this one for some reason when compared to say Infinite Undiscovery. If I recall, that game was received not greatly, but not horribly as well. Slightly above mediocre. So that would place this is the good or above area. We shall see. I most likely will be waiting as long as possible.

menage

11-16-2008, 03:44 AM

I really didn't expect much of this, but the last couple of weeks made me pretty interested in the game. Now, just to find a way to sneak it past my GF:P.

Famitsu gave it a 38/40, I know it doesn't mean much, but it will probably not suck major balls.

Chris_D

11-16-2008, 04:27 AM

Wow that's really high for Famitsu for this kind of game. I'll be interested to see more coverage.

menage

11-19-2008, 01:56 AM

Any other reviews up yet? I think I'm going to cave and get it if it's good.

Spigot

11-19-2008, 04:32 AM

menage

11-19-2008, 05:26 AM

I tell ya, if the game had been available yesterday when I was out buying all the cabling and such for my basement, I would have bought it. It's a lot easier to just toss a $60 game into the pile when you're already spending $1000 on construction material than it is to make a special trip out for it :P

I hear ya, I'm actually spending money way easier when I've already bought 4 games this month. Seems like that extra one doesn't seem to matter:P

Purple Santa

11-19-2008, 06:39 AM

I saw a commercial for this game...damn it looked sweet. No, I don't need another game to my backlog. I just bought Persona 3:FES and i'm sure looking at P4. Another RPG? Noooo...I avoid them on consoles as it is cause of lack of time....ugh...you guys are bad for my financial health. I'm going to be living in Spigot's shed soon cause i'll be homeless.

Spigot

11-19-2008, 06:39 PM

I hear ya, I'm actually spending money way easier when I've already bought 4 games this month. Seems like that extra one doesn't seem to matter:PYeah. I'm even starting to tell myself that I may as well grab this next week when I grab Chrono Trigger DS... NO! BAD SPIG!

I mean, I just bought that $100 Batman:TAS box set for my son (ostensibly) for Christmas... At least, that's what I keep telling myself and my wife.

No more games... Except Chrono Trigger DS and P4.

Abyssion

11-19-2008, 06:44 PM

No more games... Except Chrono Trigger DS and P4.

I hear ya!! I haven't even finished DQ4 or FF4. And I didn't even start Infinite Undiscovery (it was on sale for 40 bucks).

Spigot

11-19-2008, 06:54 PM

Kelegacy

11-19-2008, 06:56 PM

Spigot, I have a solution for you. Send me Tales and Infinite and I'll send you a signed picture of myself.

Spigot

11-19-2008, 06:59 PM

Spigot, I have a solution for you. Send me Tales and Infinite and I'll send you a signed picture of myself.Ok! OK! I'll play them!

I'm actually looking forward to having them to play once my basement is finished and I have somewhere I can toss the kids after school instead of having them underfoot all day long! That, and I won't have any money left at all once this construction project is finished, so I may as well stock up now.

Gorvi

11-19-2008, 06:59 PM

And give me DQIV while you're at it. :)

Spigot

11-19-2008, 07:00 PM

Stop stealing my games!

Abyssion

11-19-2008, 07:00 PM

I have IU and Tales Of Vesperia sitting unplayed, Fable 2 about 1/3rd finished, Fallout 3 barely touched... and Castlevania:OoE, FFIV and DQIV sitting in my DS barely getting any love either.

Sob...

Just let it stop! LET IT STOP!

Yeah I'm a small chunk into Vesperia, Fable 2 is complete, and I barely scratched the surface on Fallout 3. I'm nearly done with Ecclesia, I just have to level grind to take out the last boss.

I also stumbled across FFT on the psp for 10 bucks, and I had to pick it up. But after all the time I sunk into TA2 its gonna be on the shelf for a while.
Not to mention I barely touched Disgaea 3 or Star Ocean on the psp...

I have too many games and not enough time apparently! That'll change when this semester is over.

Spigot

11-19-2008, 07:22 PM

I finally finished FFT on the PSP a couple of months ago, thus ending my 10 year struggle to finally finish that bloody game. It let me finally start to play Jeanne D'Arc, which is soooo good.

But I digress.

The nice thing about the fall rush almost being over is that I have been able to play a good chunk of the games this fall and the ones I've barely touched are the kinds I'd usually pick up and play in the winter/spring, so now I'll be able to save that money!

Yeah... I'll keep telling myself that.

Abyssion

11-19-2008, 07:28 PM

Yeah I'm pretty much done with buying games till RE5 comes out. So I've got a good few months to get some of it out of the way.
Crap, I forgot all about Jeanne D'Arc, its... on my "to-do" list...
(it was 15 at target I couldn't pass it up, but I did pass up ff2 since I've got it on GBA already)

StarGypsy

11-19-2008, 07:44 PM

I have IU and Tales Of Vesperia sitting unplayed, Fable 2 about 1/3rd finished, Fallout 3 barely touched... and Castlevania:OoE, FFIV and DQIV sitting in my DS barely getting any love either.

Sob...

Just let it stop! LET IT STOP!

Im in the same boat spigot. Ive got all those plus Left 4 Dead, Chrono trigger next week and my wife picked up Rune Factory 2 which looks like a really good game. Oh, and my son picked up Gears 2. Im pretty much set till next spring.

Spigot

11-19-2008, 07:54 PM

Im in the same boat spigot. Ive got all those plus Left 4 Dead, Chrono trigger next week and my wife picked up Rune Factory 2 which looks like a really good game. Oh, and my son picked up Gears 2. Im pretty much set till next spring.Yeah. I snagged L4D for the 360 yesterday instead of Last Remnant because, well, they had L4D and didn't have The Last Remnant.

The next time there is a big batch of construction materials I have to buy, I'll try to toss a couple of games into the batch too... Rationalization for the win!

Kelegacy

11-19-2008, 09:32 PM

I don't know why you purchase games the same day/week they come out if you aren't going to get to them. Heck, by the time you DO get to them, you could have purchased them cheaper!

Xerxes

11-19-2008, 09:35 PM

I don't know why you purchase games the same day/week they come out if you aren't going to get to them. Heck, by the time you DO get to them, you could have purchased them cheaper!

I've been trying to tell him that.

Spigot

11-19-2008, 10:11 PM

Yeah. That's why I'm planning on waiting on Last Remnant. I just get caught up in the buzz sometimes and that's the problem.

I just need to try to let my rational side keep telling me that I need to wait until the new year when I've actually, you know, attempted to play through Infinite Undiscovery and Tales of Vesperia before getting The Last Remnant. It's just hard to heed its advice when they reptilian part of my brain says, "OOOH! SHINY SQUARE RPG!"

bean

11-19-2008, 10:36 PM

I don't know why you purchase games the same day/week they come out if you aren't going to get to them. Heck, by the time you DO get to them, you could have purchased them cheaper!

Pot, this is kettle. . .

menage

11-21-2008, 06:55 AM

Mmm.

Some more scores.

6 from gamepro and a 7 from game informer. Guess I'll hold off until someone who's opinion I value more says differently.

jpublic

11-21-2008, 07:16 AM

Yeah, I'm going to hold off too. I like Square's stuff usually, but I have IU unplayed, ToV unfinished, and Fable to work on. Maybe I'll get my wife to pick it up for XMas for me.

Spigot

11-21-2008, 07:19 AM

I actually saw a screen or two that were on the NXE page for the game and they turned me off of the game. It looked a little too much like Infinite Undiscovery for some reason, and while I dig IU, it's a flawed product. I'm not going to rush out right now and snag this just based on that little red flag going up in my brain.

I still eagerly await impressions from the chattering masses though!

jpublic

11-21-2008, 07:40 AM

I'm trying to console myself with the fact that Persona 4 is out in a couple weeks. Not working so hot.

Hi, my name is JPublic, and I'm an RPG-aholoic.

menage

11-21-2008, 07:47 AM

Hi, my name is JPublic, and I'm an RPG-aholoic.

Same here. Problem is, most of the "epic" ones suck at the moment. ;(

Seriously, the last great JRPG I played was Lost Odyssey (not counting Disgaea 3, but that's more of a stat whoring thing). There simply hasn't been anything that comes close to the quality of that title in recent memory.

I liked Persona 3 (I wish that game was in the school all the time), but the repition in Tartarus really burned me out.

Should I get Valkyria instead? A lot of people seem to like it but I'm afraid it will not scratch my "epic specatacle" ich.

Maybe I'm just getting burned out on the genre. Fallout 3 and Fable 2 seem so much more involved these days.

Spigot

11-21-2008, 07:54 AM

Valkyria Chronicles is an awesome take on SRPGs, but yeah. I got a little RPGed out this year too. It didn't help that I was totally burnt out on shooters so I didn't really have a fallback when I got tired of playing RPGs. Of course, the me from about, oh, 1996-2000 would be kicking my ass right now. I was so starved for JRPGs then and here I am with so many I actually have the choice of passing on some (by SQUARE, nonetheless!) because I just have too many to play.

Sigh.

Spigot

11-21-2008, 10:49 AM

Man...

I was renting a movie for work tonight and I held The Last Remnant in my hands... I was THIS close to just saying bugger it and buying it, but I resisted.

Bow before my awesome display of willpower!

bean

11-21-2008, 10:49 AM

This is on it's way to me from Gamefly. I'm really hoping that it will be hear tomorrow. Often I get games in 2 days now that they have a place in Texas, but sometimes it takes 3. . . if so, I won't get it until Monday when I must return to school.

Orca

11-21-2008, 11:04 AM

Got the game yesterday but I'm resisting until I finish Left 4 Dead lol

National Kato

11-21-2008, 11:07 AM

The PA men aren't impressed (http://www.penny-arcade.com/2008/11/21/):

We played The Last Remnant for around fifteen minutes and turned it off - during this period, we saw ten separate loading screens. It runs, in a word, "shittily." The texture pop that is the universal scourge of games on Unreal Engine 3 makes gibberish of Square's typical visual elegance. This is haunting, because with its configurable squads and the way it interprets position, I can see the vague shape of something luminous behind the rest of this wretched pageant. It's like a skirmish fought with fighting tops (http://tokaido.wordpress.com/2008/02/01/antique-fighting-top-japanese-steel-ring-kenkagoma/), and I want that. I can't say it's bad, because I don't know that, but as a first impression the game is incomprehensible. I should have known before, but I didn't really want to. If you release a video like this one (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/42981.html), you have nothing to show.

jpublic

11-21-2008, 11:15 AM

Man, here I was trying to remain strong, and convince the wife to get it for me for XMas, and now I don't even *want* it because the reviews are so bad.

Meh, I'll put it on the list. She gets it, so be it.

menage

11-21-2008, 11:40 AM

The PA men aren't impressed (http://www.penny-arcade.com/2008/11/21/):

I was afraid that the engine would fuck it up. The gameplay videos on gametrailers really had a LOT of slowdown and fade in out stuff.

Although switching something like this after 15 minutes isn't really giving it a chance as well.

Still, SE is really losing it.

Kelegacy

11-21-2008, 12:43 PM

I won't receive my copy until next week because of SuperSaver shipping from Amazon. But I'm holding out hope that I'll still get my $40 worth from it. Who knows. If I hate it I'll trade it in or sell it on eBay.

I saw KidCactus playing it on Live and he said it reminded him of FFXII, though the gameplay is nothing like it. He did mention the pop-in and texture problems though.

KidCactus

11-21-2008, 12:50 PM

I saw KidCactus playing it on Live and he said it reminded him of FFXII, though the gameplay is nothing like it. He did mention the pop-in and texture problems though.
Yes, there are a lot of texure pop-ins, in pretty much any scene you walk into.

Those loading screens are annoying, and to be honest, really ugly. And something else that isn't that hot is the character animations, they look last gen and are not at all as fluid as people are getting used to things being today.

But I still think it a good game so far, well worth playing. A few hours into the game, I'm getting used to everything and I can't say a slowdowns or texture problems bother me much.

Kelegacy

11-21-2008, 12:51 PM

Pot, this is kettle. . .

I don't buy many games brand new. I might buy a bunch of games in one huge rush if I find them on clearance (I bought 8 games last weekend because I got them all for $10 or less at Best Buy). But I will never buy too many new games. I've bought 4 this fall altogether--the most in a LONG time, probably--but I didn't spend more than $40 of my own cash on any one. If I buy a game and it sits there neglected, I feel like I've wasted cash.

I have Gamefly to help with the burden, after all. :)

menage

11-22-2008, 02:08 AM

Yes, there are a lot of texure pop-ins, in pretty much any scene you walk into.

Those loading screens are annoying, and to be honest, really ugly. And something else that isn't that hot is the character animations, they look last gen and are not at all as fluid as people are getting used to things being today.

But I still think it a good game so far, well worth playing. A few hours into the game, I'm getting used to everything and I can't say a slowdowns or texture problems bother me much.

I'm still baffled that the used the UE3 engine for it then. It's not like there aren't any alternatives better suited for the game.

DarkDay

11-22-2008, 02:12 AM

Spigot

11-22-2008, 02:17 AM

Well, I want this game buy ill hold off till I hear more from the braver folk of COG, as far as the engine goes, 5 mins ago I finished Gears 2 and good god that game/engine is insane, so I dont understand it. I mean man, I have never seen a game look like that. Didn't really think I would for quite some time into the future.Just to go off topic a bit further, I'll take your Gears 2 and raise you a Dead Space as far as visual splendour on the 360 goes (when we're not talking about cel-shaded goodness like Eternal Sonata and Tales of Vesperia)...

I mean, Gears 2 is pretty and all, but Dead Space is the only 360 game I've played that rivals Metal Gear Solid 4 for sheer visual polish. Say whatever you want about the game, but MGS4 is my current high water mark for graphics this generation.

menage

11-22-2008, 07:42 AM

Just to go off topic a bit further, I'll take your Gears 2 and raise you a Dead Space as far as visual splendour on the 360 goes (when we're not talking about cel-shaded goodness like Eternal Sonata and Tales of Vesperia)...

I mean, Gears 2 is pretty and all, but Dead Space is the only 360 game I've played that rivals Metal Gear Solid 4 for sheer visual polish. Say whatever you want about the game, but MGS4 is my current high water mark for graphics this generation.

See, I get that point, I know why you would think that, but I disagree completely. Yes the cutscenes are insane, but the actual ingame engine is quite dated and doesn't look nearly as good as anything I've seen in Gears, Fallout 3 or Bioshock. No physics, static animations, etc. I'd rather base my best graphics stuff on the actual gameplay bits. Sure there are some moments when it excels, but for every plus there's a dull section like the chapter 2 jungle.

On topic

Eurogamer gave LR a 6, Think it's going to be JRPG for the bargain bin world for me.

rein

11-22-2008, 08:04 AM

With the scores coming in I am glad I Gamefly'd this one.

My gosh I love Gamefly for this very reason. If you like it, you end up paying less than retail to keep it and if you hate it, you send it back.

Philonious

11-22-2008, 08:30 AM

The Unreal engine is spectacular in specific circumstances (enclosed environments and linear gameplay), but once you start moving away from linear-FPS the thing start showing it's limitations. I think that many devs got distracted by the shiny, and failed to realize that just because something works for one kind of game it doesn't mean it can be used for anything. Hopefully Square gets it's act together for their other games using Unreal... Or that they focus on their own graphics engine.

I wouldn't mind hearing more firsthand impressions... Though I'm getting the impression that I should be focussing on Valkyria Chronicles if I want a JRPG fix (though I also have Vesperia, Infinite Undiscovery, Eternal Sonata and Blue Dragon sitting mostly untouched on my shelf).

KidCactus

11-22-2008, 08:56 AM

I wouldn't mind hearing more firsthand impressions...
Anything in particular you want to know?

menage

11-22-2008, 10:10 AM

Anything in particular you want to know?

Yeah, how's the story and how long do the battles take?

KidCactus

11-22-2008, 10:58 AM

Yeah, how's the story and how long do the battles take?
The story is ok I guess, nothing extraordinary though. Pretty much the expected generic jrpg story, I'd say. It started out a bit slow, but it's picking up now, maybe 5 hours into the game.

The battles are quick, most of the time. It all depends on how many unions (groups of enemies) you're facing in the battle, and how many units there are in the unions. And of course how many unions/units you have (that is shifting, and you get to command more unions/units as you advance). The battles were very confusing to me when I started playing, but after a while pretty much everything is explained and then there's a good flow to them. There are random QTE in the battles, to enhance your attacks, but also to perform counter attacks. I had a very hard time timing them at first, but now I got the hang of it and now they feel like a nice addition to the fights.

Spigot

11-22-2008, 11:24 AM

So, is this Square's 'next-gen' Unlimited Saga (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps2/unlimitedsaga)? As much as I love Square, when they stumble, they tend to stumble hard.

Gorvi

11-22-2008, 12:08 PM

So, is this Square's 'next-gen' Unlimited Saga (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/ps2/unlimitedsaga)? As much as I love Square, when they stumble, they tend to stumble hard.
Square today is not the Square of the past, sadly. They did so much interesting, innovative stuff back in the PS1 era, but after that, they've gone down hill. I can't think offhand of a Square Enix game that's been great after the PS1 era that had nothing to do with either Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy.

EDIT: OK, a lot loved TWEWY, there I go contradicting myself. :p

Kelegacy

11-22-2008, 01:05 PM

The Gamespot review has me really excited for this game, but also disappointed. It sounds like it's an epic game, with a great story and cast, with great gameplay...but everything is marred by some bad technical problems. I'd like to see a huge patch come down the tube for this game, because some of those issues sound like they hurt an otherwise fascinating experience.

I doubt there will be a patch (do we see many patches for Japanese games, or RPGs in particular?) but it sounds like installing it to your harddrive will make the problems less prominent...though they'll still be there.

Deadend

11-22-2008, 01:21 PM

I wonder if the HD installs will help the game out?

Spigot

11-22-2008, 01:25 PM

Square today is not the Square of the past, sadly. They did so much interesting, innovative stuff back in the PS1 era, but after that, they've gone down hill. I can't think offhand of a Square Enix game that's been great after the PS1 era that had nothing to do with either Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy.

EDIT: OK, a lot loved TWEWY, there I go contradicting myself. :pOh, don't remind me of how stagnant Square is these days. TWEWY is awesome and there have been a few interesting attempts at things that might have the DQ or FF branding on them but weren't really core games in either series (DQM: Joker, Rocket Slime and Chocobo Tales were all pretty solid games that just happened to have the DQ/FF branding) but for the most part, we don't see the experimentation and when we do, it usually falls short in glaring areas.

I'm kind of glad I held off on Last Remnant after hearing about the technical difficulties. I'll play it at some point in the far flung future, esp. if people (Kelegacy) say it's worth playing despite the technical issues, but it's looking a lot more like a 'wait till the price drop' game than one worth getting for $60.

At least I'll have Chrono Trigger to keep me happy next week.

EWolfmanD

11-22-2008, 01:54 PM

I pre-ordered it a few weeks ago from Amazon when someone posted that they had it for $40, so I guess I won't feel too bad if it turns out not to be very good.

I'm not sure when I'll get around to playing it though because I still need to finish Valkyria Chronicles, have a few handheld games I need to finish and send back to Gamefly, and having surgery a few weeks ago interrupted my Tales of Vesperia game, so I would like to finish that first too.

It shipped today, so when it arrives next week, I'll probably at least start Last Remnant to check it out and give another opinion for the people on the fence about it.

DarkDay

11-22-2008, 02:47 PM

Just to go off topic a bit further, I'll take your Gears 2 and raise you a Dead Space as far as visual splendour on the 360 goes (when we're not talking about cel-shaded goodness like Eternal Sonata and Tales of Vesperia)...

I mean, Gears 2 is pretty and all, but Dead Space is the only 360 game I've played that rivals Metal Gear Solid 4 for sheer visual polish. Say whatever you want about the game, but MGS4 is my current high water mark for graphics this generation.

Well I trust your judgment on games, and from all I have heard about Dead Space before Ill have up it on my list. Polish however is one thing, for me it wasn't just the tech behind Gears as amazing as it was on that scale, but the art. It just hit me in all the right spots. I did play a bit of MGS and as great as it looked in game I do have to disagree with the high mark part. But all these games are so close its almost moot to argue, at this level its about the art and what blows our hair back.

Spigot

11-22-2008, 03:22 PM

Well I trust your judgment on games, and from all I have heard about Dead Space before Ill have up it on my list. Polish however is one thing, for me it wasn't just the tech behind Gears as amazing as it was on that scale, but the art. It just hit me in all the right spots. I did play a bit of MGS and as great as it looked in game I do have to disagree with the high mark part. But all these games are so close its almost moot to argue, at this level its about the art and what blows our hair back.Dead Space didn't have the wider vistas that Gears 2 might have, but I thought it had a fantastic aesthetic to it. It was more industrial in feel than the 'destroyed beauty' of Gears 2 but I still think it looked better on both an aesthetic and technical level.

Of course, it's splitting hairs. Gears 2 looked damn fine. I still think MGS4 is the best looking game outside of a cel-shaded droolfest (as previously mentioned) this generation, both in the cutscenes and the in-game areas. It's so polished it's near blinding. But yeah. They're all three great examples of what this generation of hardware is capable of and also really make games that DON'T rise to their level look downright ugly.

I'll try to stay on topic from now on :)

KidCactus

11-22-2008, 04:13 PM

I wonder if the HD installs will help the game out?
It doesn't. It still got lots of texture pop-in.

But I do think this IS a good game, otherwise I wouldn't have spent half the day today with it.

Kelegacy

11-22-2008, 06:30 PM

It doesn't. It still got lots of texture pop-in.

But I do think this IS a good game, otherwise I wouldn't have spent half the day today with it.

Well, Gamespot has a really great review up, as do other sites/publications, that really praise the game heavily. I can see why Famitsu gave it a near perfect score. However, while praising it emphatically, they also hammer it on the technical aspects, which is why such a "great" game got mediocre scores.

Still, I'm excited to play it. My copy shipped today. I have a feeling I'll love it, but also be annoyed with the technical side. Then again, I played and LOVED Alone in the Dark, a game with some severe polish issues, and it was still one of my favorite titles of the year.

I can overlook technical stumbles if the core game is still heaps of fun.

Kelegacy

11-22-2008, 07:17 PM

I just did some user review searching on Gamestop and GameFAQs (yeah, I know) and am even more excited to test drive this game now. Everyone does cite the framerate or other technical issues but state there is a fantastic game behind these problems.

Mine should be here early next week. I wasn't excited when I preordered but am now. Hopefully I'm not gonna come in here and post sad words after I give it a fair shot.

Spigot

11-22-2008, 07:37 PM

I can overlook technical stumbles if the core game is still heaps of fun.Me too. That said, I have a lot of good games that don't have technical stumbles to work on right now, so I'll still hold off for a bit. I'd rather put up with a glitchy game that masks a great story if it costs less than $60...

Kelegacy

11-22-2008, 08:11 PM

Me too. That said, I have a lot of good games that don't have technical stumbles to work on right now, so I'll still hold off for a bit. I'd rather put up with a glitchy game that masks a great story if it costs less than $60...

Oh I know. I have Banjo, Fallout 3 and Gears 2 that I still haven't played through. Banjo and Gears I've barely touched. Remnant is my final game of '08, but that doesn't count Black Friday or other deals I may stumble upon. I've already got a few more titles I may pick up cheap/clearanced on Black Friday, and then probably nothing until Gamefly's traditional year-end sales event.

Then I'm good until Resident Evil 5. :) And I haven't even purchased Vesperia or Infinite Undiscovery yet, but will. IU I can get for under $30 through most stores already, but I don't have the time. When it hits $20 or less, I'll bite.

But as if I need another JRPG. Oh well, they are additions to the library that I'll never part with anyway, so I can get them now and not be upset about not playing them until months from now.

bean

11-22-2008, 08:47 PM

Okay, I've played maybe an hour of this. . . I also have Naruto: The Broken Bond which is taking priority because I expect that I'll be able to beat it fast and return it. I'm 52% through the story mode after playing it for about 6 hours. Fun game and a great sequel. If you love the series or enjoyed the first Naruto 360 game, you'll love this as it improves on the original in pretty much every possible way.

Honestly, I've just scratched the surface on Last Remnant and can't give impressions. I actually typed them out and deleted them because they were so insufficient.

Purple Santa

11-22-2008, 09:01 PM

Square today is not the Square of the past, sadly. They did so much interesting, innovative stuff back in the PS1 era, but after that, they've gone down hill. I can't think offhand of a Square Enix game that's been great after the PS1 era that had nothing to do with either Dragon Quest or Final Fantasy.

EDIT: OK, a lot loved TWEWY, there I go contradicting myself. :p
Not really much of a contradiction. TWEWY might be the only good original content out of SE for some time. I know you have enough on your gaming plate now but...hope you find a cheap copy of this soon. Unless you played it and I've forgotten :o
Well I trust your judgment on games, and from all I have heard about Dead Space before Ill have up it on my list. Polish however is one thing, for me it wasn't just the tech behind Gears as amazing as it was on that scale, but the art. It just hit me in all the right spots. I did play a bit of MGS and as great as it looked in game I do have to disagree with the high mark part. But all these games are so close its almost moot to argue, at this level its about the art and what blows our hair back.
Spigot is a great guide on games. I've played quite a few I wouldn't of looked at if not for him. He's right about Dead Space too. It's a game that has creepy atmosphere, looks gorgeous and has plenty of fun in it. You won't regret the buy/rent...

On topic...I'll probably add this to my list since it's getting a minor buzz from those who I respect on games...

bean

11-22-2008, 10:24 PM

DarkDay

11-23-2008, 12:24 AM

Me too. That said, I have a lot of good games that don't have technical stumbles to work on right now, so I'll still hold off for a bit. I'd rather put up with a glitchy game that masks a great story if it costs less than $60...

Amen to that, sometimes I think we end up putting so much stock in the production that we sometimes forget about the little things that add the soul.

Next up, cracking open my Eternal Sonata. Thanks for the heads up.

And I love finding the obscure games, but what with my work and all I rarely have time to search them out anymore, so Im grateful for that heads up also.

Chris_D

11-23-2008, 02:28 AM

I have IU and Tales Of Vesperia sitting unplayed, Fable 2 about 1/3rd finished, Fallout 3 barely touched... and Castlevania:OoE, FFIV and DQIV sitting in my DS barely getting any love either.

Sob...

Just let it stop! LET IT STOP!

Hey Spigot my man. I just got my achievement for 100 hours in Tales of Vesperia last night. You should get on that shit ;). Easily the most time I've spent on a single player only game in years! Underrated, even by critics (who rated it pretty highly).

Chris_D

11-23-2008, 02:32 AM

Same here. Problem is, most of the "epic" ones suck at the moment. ;(

Seriously, the last great JRPG I played was Lost Odyssey (not counting Disgaea 3, but that's more of a stat whoring thing). There simply hasn't been anything that comes close to the quality of that title in recent memory.

You can probably tell by my previous post but I can't recommend the 360 Tales enough. Great fun and can also be a time sink if you want to let it. I almost have all my characters leveled up on cooking ;).

Norse

11-23-2008, 03:37 AM

Sounds like they should have chosen a different engine. UE is prone to have texture pop-in issues, even on the PC, so HDD install won't help. If they were more proficient with the engine they probably would have minimized both the pop-in and frame rate issue.

KidCactus

11-23-2008, 03:54 AM

IEveryone does cite the framerate or other technical issues but state there is a fantastic game behind these problems.
But the thing is, since the battles are turn based, and this is where the slow downs occur, it is not at all game breaking in any way. It can actually even help you, trying to hit the QTE.

When you're running around in the dungeons and such there are no frame rate issues at all, at least not what I have seen.

Spigot

11-23-2008, 06:38 AM

Purple Santa

11-23-2008, 07:55 AM

I tend to like things that Spigot likes except in the Turning the Spigot feature. Sometimes I think he is far too kind to obscure games. Some of them are hidden gems, but many of them are forgotten turds.
But what's a turd at $40 is not so turd like at $5...
I'll admit that some of them are less than spectacular, but there are some that just need to be played, for good or ill.

You know you loved Mr. Mosquito!
I loved Mr. Mosquito. I bought it when it came out...damn I do have some odd gaming tastes...

Edit: Guess i'll put Tales of Vesperia on my list too...seems another one a few are liking...2009, my year of catching up on all last year's RPGs...

KidCactus

11-23-2008, 10:33 AM

It's funny how a game can go from being fun to play, with balanced fights, to just insanely hard.

Sure, boss fights shouldn't be easy, but come on, why up the difficulty like 100 % all of a sudden, making it impossible to beat it without going back to leveling up for hours? When the game doesn't even give me a chance to heal or change the outcome in any way, thanks to the boss being able to attack over and over again, what's the point of playing?

I really, really HATE when game developers do that, and it makes me think I should just stop playing instead.

bean

11-23-2008, 11:23 AM

You know you loved Mr. Mosquito!

Yes, it was absolutely interesting and weird enough to make it absolutely worth playing. Don't get me wrong, I like that you put the spotlight on obscure, fun games. They do deserve to be played, but I'd like it if you talked about what sucked in them as well as what was cool and interesting.

EWolfmanD

11-23-2008, 12:50 PM

Edit: Guess i'll put Tales of Vesperia on my list too...seems another one a few are liking...2009, my year of catching up on all last year's RPGs...

I thought that would already be on your list. You should definitely add it and try to play it early next year. :D

menage

11-23-2008, 01:13 PM

You can probably tell by my previous post but I can't recommend the 360 Tales enough. Great fun and can also be a time sink if you want to let it. I almost have all my characters leveled up on cooking ;).

I hear a lot of good stuff about it. But I'm kinda sceptic, the demo did little for me and maybe I'm thinking to much about Eternal Sonata when I see it. ES is probably the most boring JRPG I have ever played so Vesperia has the bad luck of being associated with it.

Is it anything like that?

Spigot

11-23-2008, 03:59 PM

It's funny how a game can go from being fun to play, with balanced fights, to just insanely hard. Well, guess who wishes you'd said this BEFORE I was out buying RAM for my laptop and tossed TLR into the pile for kicks and giggles.

Sigh. The upside is that I have enough JRPGs to easily see me through to next August, if not further.

Spigot

11-23-2008, 04:08 PM

Yes, it was absolutely interesting and weird enough to make it absolutely worth playing. Don't get me wrong, I like that you put the spotlight on obscure, fun games. They do deserve to be played, but I'd like it if you talked about what sucked in them as well as what was cool and interesting.I try to put in a caveat or three if it's something fundamentally wrong with the game design. Of course, I often tend to mentally gloss over issues with games if I'm having a bucket of fun with them. I'm sure people could nitpick something like Frequency or Rez, but I wouldn't be able to!

Kelegacy

11-23-2008, 04:27 PM

Well, guess who wishes you'd said this BEFORE I was out buying RAM for my laptop and tossed TLR into the pile for kicks and giggles.

Sigh. The upside is that I have enough JRPGs to easily see me through to next August, if not further.

Well tear into that honey and let me know how it is! Mine won't be here until mid week I bet. Shipped out yesterday I think.

The only thing I hate about JRPGs is the grind and random battles. This game doesn't have the latter, but if it has lots of the former I'll be irritated.

Spigot

11-23-2008, 05:00 PM

I don't mind grind or random battles if the combat system is either a lot of fun or so mindless and fast that I can just mash A and get through them in seconds.

It's when the combat is dull and the random battles happen every 6 steps that I start to get annoyed.

I will probably take TLR for a spin over the next day or two once I finish Mirror's Edge. That shouldn't take me much longer, so expect some impressions from me soonish.

bean

11-23-2008, 11:15 PM

I try to put in a caveat or three if it's something fundamentally wrong with the game design. Of course, I often tend to mentally gloss over issues with games if I'm having a bucket of fun with them. I'm sure people could nitpick something like Frequency or Rez, but I wouldn't be able to!

Dead Head Fred and Contact are better examples. I don't think I could nitpick Frequency or Rez either.

KidCactus

11-24-2008, 01:55 AM

Well, guess who wishes you'd said this BEFORE I was out buying RAM for my laptop and tossed TLR into the pile for kicks and giggles.

Sigh. The upside is that I have enough JRPGs to easily see me through to next August, if not further.
Awesome, then you can beat this boss and tell me how to! :p

I didn't stop playing, spent an hour and a half going through the same sewers leading up to the boss for a second time (didn't face the boss though) and exited the dungeon again, so I can do it all over later today. That might help me get that bad boy. Third time's the charm, right?

The only thing I hate about JRPGs is the grind and random battles. This game doesn't have the latter, but if it has lots of the former I'll be irritated.
Even though it doesn't have random battles, you more or less have to engage every monster you see, otherwise you'll be too weak for the larger, more challenging battles.

Orca

11-24-2008, 02:18 AM

After playing it for a while, I'm really liking it more and more. I kind of enjoy games that let you grind away levels to get new abilities - it's that compulsion that kept me playing Asheron's Call and World of Warcraft for so long.

Now that I understand it more, the combat is growing more and more engaging. The slowdown is still a disappointment, but it's not a gamebreaker.

KidCactus

11-24-2008, 02:24 AM

I kind of enjoy games that let you grind away levels to get new abilities
And I really like that they skipped the usual levels in this game, in favor of letting your abilities, HP and such grow after more or less every battle. Sure, in the end it's the same thing, but I still like this way of doing it more.

Spigot

11-24-2008, 07:25 AM

Dead Head Fred and Contact are better examples. I don't think I could nitpick Frequency or Rez either.Yeah. I couldn't think of any real complaints about Dead Head Fred (keep in mind that I am still relatively early in the game) but I probably should have tossed a few more caveats in for Contact.

Did you see this week's games?

Anyway, back on topic.

I fired up TLR last night and I have to say, I'm kind of glad I broke down and bought it. It has a very interesting feel and a pretty decent level of polish, which is something Infinite Undiscovery was lacking. Yes, the texture pop-in during the first battle was VERY disconcerting, but given that I survived Mass Effect, I think I'll live. The voice acting is pretty good, I like the character design and the world seems pretty unique (for a JRPG), so that's cool. I had NO idea what was going on in the midst of the fight though, but I'm sure I'll glom onto how the battle system when I sink more time into this. Orca: Anytime someone compares a game favourably to Asheron's Call, I'm on board :)

I am getting an almost Lost Odyssey feel to the game and that's a good thing. Now that I'm winding my way through the last of the BIG ACTION GAMES of this year, the JRPGing can finally start in earnest.

bean

11-24-2008, 07:43 AM

Texture pop-in, frequent load screens, and slight pauses during battle while animations are loaded into memory mar the experience. . . but I can get past those technical problems when the game that is beneath it is so good.

So far, I've been enjoying the story though it is 3 kinds of cliche; however, this is a game about the combat. . . and it manages to be really different and exciting. Also so far, I haven't found that it is necessary to do much with the formations and unions besides building them for strength and making sure at least one of them has the ability to use restorative herbs, but it is still so early in the game that I'm only allowed to lead 3 unions that contain only 4 leaders total. This limitation is artificial but does scale to the content to make it a satisfying challenge (especially in boss fights). Exploration of "old areas" has been very fun too. You go to them to harvest materials from dead mobs and harvest nodes, but you can also find that new paths have opened up to more difficult mobs or that they've placed miniboss mobs in areas of the map. These are exciting to fight and rewarding to beat.

So far, I'm loving it and I wish I'd taken that $40 Amazon preorder deal.

Spigot

11-24-2008, 07:45 AM

Yeah. The load screens seem excessive but I'm kind of hoping it was because I'm right at the start and it's going between CGI and ingame cutscenes and battles and so forth.

KidCactus

11-24-2008, 07:48 AM

Yeah. The load screens seem excessive but I'm kind of hoping it was because I'm right at the start and it's going between CGI and ingame cutscenes and battles and so forth.
Sorry to say it, but they won't go away. I'd rather just have an empty screen with the loading animation in the corner instead of those instructions screens.

Virtual Machine

11-24-2008, 08:10 AM

Technically, the game is junk. More proof that the Unreal 3 engine sin't all it's "popped up" to be (bad pun - my bad.)

On every other level, i think it's a damned awesome game thus far.

Spigot

11-24-2008, 08:17 AM

Sorry to say it, but they won't go away. I'd rather just have an empty screen with the loading animation in the corner instead of those instructions screens.Let me guess. They're the same 4 instruction screens repeated ad nauseum for the next 100 hours?

Sigh. Why can't devs at least put in an interesting page of lore or a static art screen instead of looping the same set of instructions that might have been good to read during the first 10 minutes of the game?

KidCactus

11-24-2008, 08:21 AM

Let me guess. They're the same 4 instruction screens repeated ad nauseum for the next 100 hours?

More or less, yes. And the few screens with info I'd really want to read doesn't stay long enough for me to actually have time to.

Kelegacy

11-24-2008, 10:03 AM

Even though it doesn't have random battles, you more or less have to engage every monster you see, otherwise you'll be too weak for the larger, more challenging battles.

That's okay. I enjoy having no random battles if only because it allows me to explore. In games WITH them, exploring rooms and caves to try to find treasure chests or solve puzzles is a pain. You don't want to backtrack because you're gonna get attacked numerous times. I hate that and find the technique outdated, though I enjoyed it in my youth.

Kelegacy

11-24-2008, 10:08 AM

Bean, you're in LUCK!! Amazon is selling The Last Remnant for 39.99 again today.

bean

11-24-2008, 11:04 AM

Let me guess. They're the same 4 instruction screens repeated ad nauseum for the next 100 hours?

Sigh. Why can't devs at least put in an interesting page of lore or a static art screen instead of looping the same set of instructions that might have been good to read during the first 10 minutes of the game?

It actually unlocks new instruction screens as you get further in the game and have more options in the way you play. There are well over 20 instruction screens (not sure how many exactly) now that I've gotten pretty far. The loads are too frequent for my tastes, but they are at least very short.

Virtual Machine

11-25-2008, 09:07 AM

Kelegacy

11-25-2008, 10:59 AM

IGN's review is out - goddamn that's harsh. Of course Gametrailers handed it an 8.0 apparently.

I don't know where i stand. I've only played for about two hours. On my "precious metals" scale, i'd call it a silver right now (Lead -> Copper -> Silver - > Gold - > Platinum).

That first big cutscene was actually pretty damn cool, and did a good job of sucking me into the story. Of course, nothing has happened since.

I have a feeling I may be disappointed when I finally play it, but to hell with IGN. They scored Alone in the Dark, one of my underappreciated titles of the year, a 3/10. Really, games like Bullet Witch even scored higher. I think most titles, licensed movies or Barbie Horse Adventures, score higher. IGN usually overscores or underscores, especially anticipated titles.

Most of the reviews have been positive, but the reason the game scored so low is because of technical aspects, as it should. The fact that there is a really good game beneath all the coding and engine issues makes me relieved, but also frustrated.

I pray for a worldwide patch, but I won't hold my breath.

KidCactus

11-25-2008, 01:54 PM

I pray for a worldwide patch, but I won't hold my breath.
If they all through the development of the game couldn't a core function of the game (the battles) not to slow down, I really don't think we'll ever see a patch that fixes it. And certainly nothing that makes the UE3 texture pop-ins go away.

Shjinta

11-25-2008, 02:17 PM

I have a feeling I may be disappointed when I finally play it, but to hell with IGN. They scored Alone in the Dark, one of my underappreciated titles of the year, a 3/10. Really, games like Bullet Witch even scored higher. I think most titles, licensed movies or Barbie Horse Adventures, score higher. IGN usually overscores or underscores, especially anticipated titles.

Most of the reviews have been positive, but the reason the game scored so low is because of technical aspects, as it should. The fact that there is a really good game beneath all the coding and engine issues makes me relieved, but also frustrated.

I pray for a worldwide patch, but I won't hold my breath.

Coding and engine issues? Really? odd hmmm "goes on to Wiki" Yeah theres the problem Engine "Unreal Engine 3 using SpeedTree" Sorry but I think this engine is utter garbage.

ClannerDelta

11-25-2008, 02:24 PM

Coding and engine issues? Really? odd hmmm "goes on to Wiki" Yeah theres the problem Engine "Unreal Engine 3 using SpeedTree" Sorry but I think this engine is utter garbage.

I think this is the most confusing post I've read on CoG.

I'll probably pick up the game, I want a good RPG and the technical issues will be like therapy. Learning how to ignore them will make me a better person. :p

Spigot

11-25-2008, 06:06 PM

I'll probably pick up the game, I want a good RPG and the technical issues will be like therapy. Learning how to ignore them will make me a better person. :p
I'm hoping it will be like Mass Effect, where I just tuned them out by the second or third screen. Sure, they were there and they could be glaring at times, but I just didn't care because I was loving the game so much.

Please let TLR be like that. I will probably sink some more time into it tomorrow and we'll see how I feel then!

bean

11-25-2008, 07:59 PM

I just watched the IGN review and his criticisms are correct, but I disagree with the final score. The pop-in, slowdown, and frequent load screens do plague the game, and the narrative isn't that impressive. . . but I think the unions are really fun and interesting. Not having exact control over the units actually makes the game more interesting and friendly. . . this let's you do pretty much what you want your guys to do but makes the battles a lot faster (which is needed with this many characters or battles would be as slow as those in Shining Force).

rein

11-25-2008, 09:45 PM

Well... ...I'm not impressed. I want to like the game. I really really do. The combat is decent but I'm not sure even it is enough to hold this train wreck together. I can forgive poor voice acting, frame rate issues, pop-in, frequent loading, generic story, and an incredibly lame main character when it is one or two of the issues in the same game, but not when they are all in the same game. I swear, I haven't made it out of the 1st cave and I don't want to play it anymore. It may be $20-$30 good but no more. Thank goodness I GF'ed it and can send it back. I will hold out for the PS3 version to see if the work some of the kinks out. At least by then if they haven't, I will still get it in the bargain bin.

I'm not knocking you folks that keep playing it... ...just not for me at this time.

menage

11-26-2008, 05:24 AM

Now I'm torn again

After watching the Gametrailers review it didn't look that bad at all.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/43106.html

Purple Santa

11-26-2008, 08:41 AM

I am getting an almost Lost Odyssey feel to the game and that's a good thing. Now that I'm winding my way through the last of the BIG ACTION GAMES of this year, the JRPGing can finally start in earnest.

I think 2009 is going to be my big JRPG year. Since going back to graduate school i'd sworn off any RPG unless it was on one of the handhelds. Although I tried LO in the summer I have to go back to that. But next year, i'll just have more time to game...or so I fool myself into thinking. TLR is on my list of course. I'm thinking i'll go back and find others. And now I just remembered one of the bargains I did put back the other day at CC...Blue Dragon...damn, knew I should of kept that one...

Panthera

11-26-2008, 08:50 AM

If the performance issues are as bad as people say, I might just get this on PC after I upgrade.

Kelegacy

11-26-2008, 09:02 AM

I think 2009 is going to be my big JRPG year. Since going back to graduate school i'd sworn off any RPG unless it was on one of the handhelds. Although I tried LO in the summer I have to go back to that. But next year, i'll just have more time to game...or so I fool myself into thinking. TLR is on my list of course. I'm thinking i'll go back and find others. And now I just remembered one of the bargains I did put back the other day at CC...Blue Dragon...damn, knew I should of kept that one...

You could have got BD for $10 as well? You SHOULD have got that. I think it might be my favorite JRPG on the system that I've played. It's cute, colorful, fun, and Spigot hates it. Those are all valid reasons to like it.

In truth it's a great traditional JRPG. LO turned me off for some reason, but I'll get back to it sometime. I want to play Tales and Infinite Undiscovery because the battle systems interest me, especially the Tales series.

But BD...man, you missed out if you could have snagged that one cheap. You can still find it $20 or under most places, but $10 is the perfect steal for that one.

Spigot

11-26-2008, 10:01 AM

Hey... Don't go there... DON'T GO THERE!

Purple Santa

11-26-2008, 10:10 AM

You could have got BD for $10 as well? You SHOULD have got that. I think it might be my favorite JRPG on the system that I've played. It's cute, colorful, fun, and Spigot hates it. Those are all valid reasons to like it.

Hey... Don't go there... DON'T GO THERE!

I know...I know...you guys were arguing in my head when I had it in my hands. I was trying to walk out of there with some kind of $ limit. I also put back Vice City Stories and Liberty Stories. I'm a GTA freak...it hurt to put those back. I think I will go back today just to see if I can find it...I actually thought it was ok when i was playing it. I tried to make it a JRPG summer but being in a extremely hot attic attempting to play a RPG isn't a good combo...

Spigot

11-26-2008, 10:22 AM

I know...I know...you guys were arguing in my head when I had it in my hands. By all means, rent Blue Dragon and give it a try and see if you suffer from the same utter lack of taste and refinement that Kelegacy does, but I'd rather you spent that money towards Chrono Trigger DS or Persona 3 or 4.

menage

11-26-2008, 10:39 AM

Spigot's is clearly a bit insane when it comes to his knowledge of Blue Dragons. I quite liked it as well:P

LO kicks it ass though.

Kelegacy

11-26-2008, 11:05 AM

Spigot's is clearly a bit insane when it comes to his knowledge of Blue Dragons. I quite liked it as well:P

LO kicks it ass though.

A shadow killed his family and raped him when he was 11. I can understand why he despises the game...I guess.

But Purple, I know what you mean about putting games back. I'm a notorious "put it in my hands, put it back after walking around the store a bit". My girlfriend hates it. I've gone on some crazy Circuit City clearance runs and racked up taps of $150 or so on games for all systems. Now I try to be a bit more rational, but I've put games back I wish I hadn't.

If you see any other gems, let me know. I'm going to check out my store soon and see if they've updated anything in the bins. Half the time I would get a list of clearanced games and they wouldn't be in the bin. I'd have to go through their godawful shelves and find games priced at $60 that were really $10. Best part of that was the games were sitting there, hidden, and I just needed to do some digging. I tend to get my lists from CheapAssGamer.com, an incredible resource for all things bargain.

Purple Santa

11-26-2008, 11:25 AM

By all means, rent Blue Dragon and give it a try and see if you suffer from the same utter lack of taste and refinement that Kelegacy does, but I'd rather you spent that money towards Chrono Trigger DS or Persona 3 or 4.
You just reminded me I do need to go to Gamestop to pick up CT DS. I have P3 coming from Ebay...P4 is pre-ordered. Can I buy Blue Dragon now? :)

Spigot's is clearly a bit insane when it comes to his knowledge of Blue Dragons. I quite liked it as well:P

LO kicks it ass though.
LO shouldn't be compared to BD though. Not sure why...just unfair. I tried both...they really are different games. But yeah, LO does kick BD's ass...I just needed better concentration for LO than I was giving it...

If you see any other gems, let me know. I'm going to check out my store soon and see if they've updated anything in the bins. Half the time I would get a list of clearanced games and they wouldn't be in the bin. I'd have to go through their godawful shelves and find games priced at $60 that were really $10. Best part of that was the games were sitting there, hidden, and I just needed to do some digging. I tend to get my lists from CheapAssGamer.com, an incredible resource for all things bargain.
I like CheasAssGamer...I need to search there more. I'm going out in a few hours...I need to stop looking at CoG as I try to edit my papers. As soon as I can do more work...I can reward myself. I'll bring back any good bargains if I see any...

EWolfmanD

11-26-2008, 01:07 PM

As long as you have Persona 3 and 4 already ordered, you're allowed to buy Blue Dragon too. :p

I would say that I envy you, Santa, but I actually have to play or finish most of those RPGs still myself. You're going to have a great time once you actually get the time to play. :D

Kelegacy

11-26-2008, 01:12 PM

My PS2 is dead, and my PS3 needs to be fixed (don't want to dish out the money for it, and though it should have been covered under warranty Sony won't honor it unless you have your receipt...which I didn't have--those fuckers) but otherwise I would like to play Persona 3 and 4. 3 was good what I did play.

I always bitch and moan about short games, but when a game is a meaty RPG I can't seem to finish them, at least JRPGs.

Orca

11-26-2008, 02:25 PM

I just hit Elysion for the first time...at Battle Rank 20. I think I've been grinding more than most people. I got addicted to getting more powerful skills one night and just kept farming in Drillmoore (sp?) until I was beating the rare spawns. Then I moved to the next zone and got sucked back into leveling skills again.

jpublic

11-26-2008, 02:30 PM

Am I misremembering, or was this game also supposed to see a PC and PS3 release?

I may just hold off for the PC, if so.

Kelegacy

11-26-2008, 02:34 PM

Kelegacy

11-26-2008, 02:36 PM

Am I misremembering, or was this game also supposed to see a PC and PS3 release?

I may just hold off for the PC, if so.

Yes, eventually. 360 is more of a timed release. I don't think you'll have to wait long for the PC and PS3 versions, but I don't know the exact release date.

jpublic

11-26-2008, 02:41 PM

Yes, eventually. 360 is more of a timed release. I don't think you'll have to wait long for the PC and PS3 versions, but I don't know the exact release date.

Yeah, I'll wait then. It's not like I don't have a plethora of 360/PS2 RPGs to work on at the moment *anyway*, and a PC version would be more convenient for me - assuming they don't pull some assinine shit like Sega did with PSU.

menage

11-27-2008, 03:09 AM

Yeah, I'll wait then. It's not like I don't have a plethora of 360/PS2 RPGs to work on at the moment *anyway*, and a PC version would be more convenient for me - assuming they don't pull some assinine shit like Sega did with PSU.

Haven't all SE games on PC been horrificly bad ports?

Don't know if it's changed at all lately, but ports from console to PC from Japan always quite suck.

Spigot

11-27-2008, 05:27 AM

Haven't all SE games on PC been horrificly bad ports?

Don't know if it's changed at all lately, but ports from console to PC from Japan always quite suck.I actually loved the FFVII and VIII ports back in the day. FFVIII especially was a much better game on the PC than the PS1 because you had better 3D cards back then and could get more textures and such than on the PS1.

But I don't think I've played any other game on the PC from Square since then besides FFXI and that game had some serious issues, at least when it came to NEVER UPDATING THE INTERFACE.

jpublic

11-27-2008, 07:09 AM

Haven't all SE games on PC been horrificly bad ports?

Don't know if it's changed at all lately, but ports from console to PC from Japan always quite suck.

Eh. True, that. Oh well, if it bites, it bites.

EternalGamer

11-27-2008, 10:32 AM

You could have got BD for $10 as well? You SHOULD have got that. I think it might be my favorite JRPG on the system that I've played. It's cute, colorful, fun, and Spigot hates it. Those are all valid reasons to like it.

In truth it's a great traditional JRPG. LO turned me off for some reason, but I'll get back to it sometime. I want to play Tales and Infinite Undiscovery because the battle systems interest me, especially the Tales series.

But BD...man, you missed out if you could have snagged that one cheap. You can still find it $20 or under most places, but $10 is the perfect steal for that one.

I think I liked Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey an equal amount for drastically different reasons. I loved BD's aesthetic and exploration and I liked Lost Odyssey's narrative and battle system more. If we could meld those attributes together into one experience, we'd have a A+ title that would rival a high quality Square production of yesteryear.

I'm slowly making my way through Vesperia but after 30 hours, I'm still not sure how I really feel about it. It certainly isn't amazing in any regard, but it is enjoyable enough (especially co-op).

Eternal Sonata is the real loser of the 360 bunch in my mind. It is a beautiful looking game. But it is also mind numbingly repetitive with all of ONE enemy type in each dungeon.

Panthera

11-27-2008, 10:57 AM

I actually loved the FFVII and VIII ports back in the day. FFVIII especially was a much better game on the PC than the PS1 because you had better 3D cards back then and could get more textures and such than on the PS1.

But I don't think I've played any other game on the PC from Square since then besides FFXI and that game had some serious issues, at least when it came to NEVER UPDATING THE INTERFACE.

I thought I the only one who enjoyed those two on PC! Yes, playing VIII on PC is probably one of the reasons I liked it as much as I did.

And yeah, I ended up just using a controller all the time for FFXI. Can't say I minded it that much, it was nice to play a slightly slower-paced MMO.

Purple Santa

11-27-2008, 11:09 AM

By all means, rent Blue Dragon and give it a try and see if you suffer from the same utter lack of taste and refinement that Kelegacy does, but I'd rather you spent that money towards Chrono Trigger DS or Persona 3 or 4.

I couldn't find BD at CC :mad:. Someone obviously stole my copy...somehow i'm blaming Spigot. Of course I have a $10 black friday coupon so I can get BD for $6 :D. Take that my nemesis...i'll probably just buy Lost Odyssey instead...

And now that I have a brand new monitor coming soon, I now can play all these JRPGs without boring Ms. Claus to death as she watches me grind through them...

EternalGamer

11-27-2008, 11:20 AM

I now can play all these JRPGs without boring Ms. Claus to death as she watches me grind through them...

I remember that I bought one of those $10 "arcade joysticks" for the 360 at Circuit City specifically to grind my characters in Blue Dragon. There is an island of rare slimes that, when you equip your party right, you can just just wedge something between the sticks and turn on autofire (what the joystick purchase was for) and let your characters run in circles and level up. I just rubberbanded a quarter to the action buttons on autofire and let the game have at it. I believed I finished a novel while the game was leveling itself up and the characters were maxing out their stats.

Gotta love old school quirky tricks like this.

I got some rather bizarre looks from my partner who saw this set up I rigged. I'm sure he was wondering why I was "playing" a game that was playing itself. I didn't try too hard to explain it because anyone who didn't grow up playing RPGs isn't likely to ever understand this absurdity and why I find it enjoyable.

LimitlessChaos

11-27-2008, 12:08 PM

The best I could find was on GameSpot and the wikipedia article for the game.
Gamespot has an "announcement" saying at some point it's coming to PS3, and the Wiki article just says that the PS3 (and strangely enough, Windows) release date(s) are TBD.

Overall, I have enjoyed the brief time I've spent with it. I was somewhat let down by Infinite Undiscovery, but I can blame any number of things for that (law school mostly, destroyed my gaming hobby).

At any rate, the battles are traditional but put in a new way that makes them seem different and therefore, I like them. It's pretty much akin to your fighter in Final Fantasy walking forward two steps and swinging his broadsword at air a couple of times, but your fighter is actually FIVE fighters swinging their broadswords and chopping someone to near Mortal Kombat levels of blood pumpage.

My biggest complaint is that the 360 seems to be a little behind on the power train and the game has ugly slowdown and rendering lag, where you'll see your models in battle for a few minutes without their appropriate texture appearance (I have no idea what the technical term is when it's not uh, rendered or focused yet). I had the ground texture for a battle stay blurry right up to the point where I killed the enemy, although it was a very short fight.

Good game, I enjoy it. I like the plot, the characters are memorable and the fighting is pretty fun.

Spigot

11-27-2008, 02:02 PM

Take that my nemesis...i'll probably just buy Lost Odyssey instead...Wait, you were going to buy Blue Dragon INSTEAD of Lost Odyssey?

You are dead to me!

But I'll revive you with my phoenix down.

Limitless Chaos: I feel your pain with Infinite Undiscovery. I'm hoping that it's the kind of game that I just need to take the time to get into as it's not inherently bad. In my opinion, it suffers from the fact that they basically took every possible JRPG gameplay mechanic and stuffed it into the game in some form or another. In certain respects, that is awesome... in others, it isn't.

I need to take some time this weekend and next week to actually get further than the first save point in TLR. I've heard opinions that range all over the map and I haven't put enough time into it to really get a feel for how good or bad it is outside of the technical limitations.

I did hear that some of the battles can last upwards of 2 hours though... yeep!

EternalGamer

11-27-2008, 02:08 PM

Wait, you were going to buy Blue Dragon INSTEAD of Lost Odyssey?

You are dead to me!

Maybe it is better to be dead to you rather than being worn into a braindead stupor as he listens to the cliched broodings of Kaim and company. Blue Dragon's world is sunshine and happyness.

Purple Santa

11-27-2008, 02:36 PM

Maybe it is better to be dead to you rather than being worn into a braindead stupor as he listens to the cliched broodings of Kaim and company. Blue Dragon's world is sunshine and happyness.

I love the lines that are drawn over these two games. There usually is very little middle ground. You either love or hate one of the two. Some of the funniest comments have been defending/attacking each others choice.

It seems I will be buying NEITHER BD or LO from Gamefly. Well not with my discount coupon. BD is to cheap to get the discount. It has to be a game more than $30 and LO isn't "for sale" yet...only if you rent it first. I can't since my Que is full...so I can't get it shipped enabling me to buy it. So for now, i'm without either. Maybe somewhere in the black friday sales...

@Spigot: 2 hour long battles? What kind of party members did they have? Maybe they had the equivalent of having 4 white mages in FF in one party.

EternalGamer

11-27-2008, 02:52 PM

I believe Spigot is referring to the 1up review, which mentioned battles of up to 2 hours. That certainly made me raise an eyebrow.

Spigot

11-27-2008, 02:57 PM

I love the lines that are drawn over these two games. There usually is very little middle ground. You either love or hate one of the two. Some of the funniest comments have been defending/attacking each others choice.If I wanted sunshine and happiness, I'd go play Persona!

Wait... I mean, Dragon Quest VIII, since that's obviously the game that Blue Dragon wishes it was.

I'm actually surprised at how long my enmity towards Blue Dragon has lasted, but man... Everyone knows that the best way to get my dander up is to say something positive about it (or for bonus rage, say something nice about it and something negative about Lost Odyssey in the same post!) I don't actually get as upset about Blue Dragon now as I used to as there are many other games worth pointing people towards but I still kind of hate Mistwalker for putting out one of my favourite games and one of my least favourite games of the past 12-14 months.
@Spigot: 2 hour long battles? What kind of party members did they have? Maybe they had the equivalent of having 4 white mages in FF in one party.Hey, I'm just the messenger. I think it was one of the 1Up guys who was talking about how he beat the final boss and was telling people, "Yeah, it was a nice short battle. It only lasted an hour."

I have no idea how things were laid out or why the fights took so long, but it seems that the boss battles in the game are rather lengthy. I'd almost hope for a mid-battle save at that point!

Kelegacy

11-27-2008, 03:14 PM

I'm home with my copy of Last Remnant, will fire it up shortly. I need to see if this is as bad as the reviews slam it for. They slammed Alone in the Dark but I thought it was a gem. We'll see...

Orca

11-27-2008, 03:54 PM

I believe Spigot is referring to the 1up review, which mentioned battles of up to 2 hours. That certainly made me raise an eyebrow.

You could probably get some high level battles that long, if you chained enough enemies together.

Cavalier

11-27-2008, 05:08 PM

Got into a fight last night, enemy did the "cavalry cry" every round so ended up with 10+ units verses my two,

I didn't last very long, and the game got turned off in disgust :(

EWolfmanD

11-27-2008, 09:55 PM

I guess I must be weird then because I loved Lost Odyssey and liked the little bit of Blue Dragon I played ok. I didn't love it, but I didn't hate it either. I mainly stopped playing it because I just didn't have the time, and I still haven't gotten back around to playing it yet. It's probably going to be a while with as many RPGs as I still have left to play.

Then again, I actually liked Infinite Undiscovery too. It had things that annoyed me a little, but it was pretty easy to ignore most of the problems. I guess I must have just liked the combat a lot or something because I played it a ton over two or three days to beat it. I can see why other people wouldn't like it though.

As for Last Remnant, I made it to the map after checking out the game a little, but that is all so far. The combat seemed fun, but I didn't really like any of the characters yet. The main character especially seems like he will be annoying, but I'm usually pretty forgiving of that sort of thing, and I'm hopeful that maybe he'll change some soon.

The technical issues did seem pretty bad, including the opening basically stopping for a few seconds a few times. The rest of the technical problems didn't bother me much since I don't care too much about things like texture pop in, but it's a little hard to ignore the game freezing up.

I'm not sure when I'll play more. There are a lot of other games I should play right now, but for some reason I'm really tempted to play more Last Remnant so I can check out the combat some more.

Orca

11-27-2008, 10:03 PM

Got into a fight last night, enemy did the "cavalry cry" every round so ended up with 10+ units verses my two,

I didn't last very long, and the game got turned off in disgust :(

If by two units you mean two characters, not two unions, then you're doing the whole 'union' thing very wrong. Add more characters to your unions, which gives you more hitpoints and attacks.

After a few missions you can hire soldiers to flesh out your unions - definitely do that.

Kelegacy

11-27-2008, 10:06 PM

rein

11-27-2008, 10:22 PM

I notice the texture loading issues, but it is no worse than it was in Mass Effect. As for loading, it's pretty darn fast to me, but I have it installed to the HDD. I did see a tad bit of slowdown in the opening battle, but I've barely played it so I don't know how bad it gets. If that was the extent of it, I'll be fine.

The issues might get bad later on, but if this is it I can't believe the overblown bullshit reviewers are doing these days. The texture loading is a non-issue for me because I've put up with it in tons of games. It's irritating, but if I can stomach it in Gears and Mass Effect (I think Mass Effect had even worse texture loading) I can stand it in TLR. The thing that will bug me the most is the slowdown, and possibly the loading. But right now the loading has been so fast I can't even read the load screen hints.

But again, I've barely played it. I'm going to play some more now to kill time before I place my Black Friday order at 3 AM.

I confessed in the What's In Your Que? thread that I gave TLR a second chance and the technical issues were not bugging me as much as they were in the beginning. There are times that there is a little lag just as you are performing a Critical Trigger. That can be annoying but I didn't try installing to the HDD.

Other than that, I wasn't digging the main character like others seem to be. I will most likely give it another try down the road when I can pick it up cheap.

Kelegacy

11-27-2008, 10:51 PM

I'm only an hour or two in (got sidetracked tonight) yes, the main character looks to be irritating. I mean, he calls David "Dave" right from the start. Immature asshole.

But the texture loading is definitely faster in some instances than Mass Effect. If we're going to dock points from TLR's review we need to do the same to Mass Effect and Gears.

Try installing it to your HDD (only the disc you are playing needs to be installed) and see if it makes a difference. I did that from the get-go, so I can't compare, but the loading is definitely bearable, and faster than many games. Having to load in and out of buildings is annoying though, I admit.

But again, I've barely even played the game so I can't really give the game a pass yet. I can come to hate it (and I very well may) in the next few hours, but right now the tech aspects seem to have been overblown from my view. Many other games have some of these same problems, but have got near-perfect scores.

But I may be eating crow soon enough.

EWolfmanD

11-27-2008, 11:04 PM

Kel, I pretty much feel the same way you do regarding the technical problems. Things like the texture don't bother me, and the loading also seemed ok to me, and I haven't tried installing it yet. When I said the problems were pretty bad, I should have said something more along the lines of the problems being present a lot. So I notice them, but I don't care.

However, I did have some major slowdown during the opening of the game. At one point, it stopped long enough that I thought my 360 had frozen. I really hope that doesn't happen in any other scenes or that it's a sign of my 360 dying.

Kelegacy

11-27-2008, 11:10 PM

Freezing doesn't sound good, Ewolfmand. Mine went through it fine, though just as the huge fight started some slowdown did occur. But after that, fine.

Install it and let me know what you think. It's a 6.1 gb install, so it's hefty, but you only need to install the disc you play. When you get to disc 2, you can delete the first install and do the second.

Let me know if the differences are drastic or not. Mine's installed and things aren't too shabby yet.

EternalGamer

11-28-2008, 12:32 AM

Kelegacy

11-28-2008, 12:45 AM

Just a quick heads up on some Amazon Black Friday deals:

Last Remenant $39.95
Infinite Undiscovery$18.95

Lots of other fantastic deals too. Here (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343590) is the full list.

Yeah, I'm staying up until 3 AM to grab IU, the one with the free gift and download codes for a dollar more.

Also, some other titles. I think I'm dropping like $120 @ Amazon on Too Human, Dead Space, IU, Brothers in Arms and Madden '09 (the last is an Xmas gift for my nephew).

I've been playing The Last Remnant tonight, gone through the first two dungeons and I gotta say...I'm liking it so far. The technical aspects haven't reared their heads yet, definitely no slow down yet (the battles haven't been big enough I'm guessing) but the texture loading is less than or equal to Mass Effect and the loading is pretty damn fast.

I don't think I can trust reviewers to tell me what's worthwhile anymore. I believe their jaded and when you mix business with pleasure, sometimes reviewing games takes the fun out of it. A couple years ago, or even last year probably, I wouldn't have said that, but in 2008 I've bought a lot of games that didn't score the highest but I had more fun than some AAA titles.

I'll continue to update my thoughts on TLR as I progress, but for now I'm not disappointed that I bought it for $39.99 from Amazon. The dungeons so far have been a bit empty of interaction besides a few chests and of course enemies, but the battle system is actually pretty interesting.

After I sleep in tomorrow I'll continue to play. This Black Friday stuff has me fatigued (and I keep dropping my internet connection--OF ALL NIGHTS TO DO IT TO ME!!!!)

Variable Gear

11-28-2008, 03:44 AM

I don't think I can trust reviewers to tell me what's worthwhile anymore. I believe their jaded and when you mix business with pleasure, sometimes reviewing games takes the fun out of it. A couple years ago, or even last year probably, I wouldn't have said that, but in 2008 I've bought a lot of games that didn't score the highest but I had more fun than some AAA titles.
John Davison said something similar during a recent episode of 1UP Yours (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3?http://download.gamevideos.com/Podcasts/1UY112108.mp3). He floated the notion that he's seen more outright negative reviews for competent games in 2008 than any other year he's been a part of the industry. He then goes on to say that reviewers sometimes go out of their way to lowball a game, which spurs furious community reaction (Interesting, no?). He claims that this "review" process isn't really fair to the game, and that it's unfair to have reviewer who is not part of a game's audience pick the game apart. I agree with that assessment, even though I think that there will always be a place for enthusiast reviews. I just think a few changes need to be made.

One of them is that reviewers have to pay for the games they review. Another one is that they shall not review a game on a debug machine. The third is that they shall not be flown out to a hotel in order to review the game in a weekend. The fourth is that the reviewer should spend as much time as they can fiddling with the game's mechanics before writing the review. The fifth is that there must not be a score attached to the review. I think there are at least five more of these tips, but I forgot them. Maybe if I etched them into stone tablets...

rein

11-28-2008, 06:37 AM

John Davison said something similar during a recent episode of 1UP Yours (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3?http://download.gamevideos.com/Podcasts/1UY112108.mp3). He floated the notion that he's seen more outright negative reviews for competent games in 2008 than any other year he's been a part of the industry.

Not to derail the thread too much, but is there currently anyone that reviews games based on technical merrit alone? I don't read a whole lot of reviews anymore and get most of my advice just reading message boards. I do think technical reviews that pull some of the emotion out the of the review might be benificial.

I'm a bit torn on the issue. I don't think developers should get a pass when they have technical issues in a game. We should be getting to a point in gaming that we do not have video lag and/or textures loading 30-90 seconds after the next scene loads or patches on launch day. Yet, I don't think a game should be completely trashed due to these issues. So, how much of a review should be taken into account for technical issues? 25% 20%? 10%?

Spigot

11-28-2008, 06:53 AM

Since we're on this topic, the most recent episode of 1Up FM (http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3?http://download.gamevideos.com/Podcasts/EGM/1UFM112408.mp3) had a funny little bit where they were reviewing the Weight Loss Trainer for the DS which is essentially a cookbook. They proposed that they cook a casserole and bring it in for review. What followed was a pretty funny (and telling) pretend review of said casserole that really showed just how silly game reviews have gotten.

It just really showed how you can have a perfectly fine casserole of a game but reviewers insist on complaining that it is neither a steak nor a blueberry pie. It seems that it takes a special type of reviewer these days to actually review a game on its merits instead of against what it isn't.

Of course, given the cost of games these days, I don't blame reviewers for skewing a little harshly. When you have games discounted to 1/3 the price in 3 months after release (I'm looking at you, IU), maybe reviewers SHOULD be a little harsher so that the games will drop in price faster. Many games are perfectly great purchases at $20 but are absolutely not worth $60... If it takes some crummy reviews to help this along, I'm all for it.

And technical issues are hard to judge a game on. A lot of the time it is a matter of taste and tolerance of the person playing it. Some people concidered the texture pop-in for Mass Effect gamebreaking while others (like myself) barely noticed it. There are fundamentally broken games, but TLR isn't one of them. It has issues, but isn't quite ready to be committed...

Purple Santa

11-28-2008, 07:05 AM

I'm home with my copy of Last Remnant, will fire it up shortly. I need to see if this is as bad as the reviews slam it for. They slammed Alone in the Dark but I thought it was a gem. We'll see...
After reading your mini-impression later in the thread, I guess it's a case of the reviewers not doing it justice. I'm definitely going to play this next year sometime. Maybe even pick it up in the bargain bin :D. I'd actually pay BF price but I have spent enough money already.
Just a quick heads up on some Amazon Black Friday deals:

Last Remenant $39.95
Infinite Undiscovery$18.95

Lots of other fantastic deals too. Here (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343590) is the full list.

Grabbed my copy of IU. I wanted TLR but just had to stop somewhere. Bought my future mother in law a xmas present instead. But at least I know TLR is a game worth checking out. So much easier buying games when you have other opinions that you share a commonality with. I think of all the bad games and/or good games I missed from prior consoles due to not knowing what was worth buying or not.

rein

11-28-2008, 07:16 AM

Many games are perfectly great purchases at $20 but are absolutely not worth $60... If it takes some crummy reviews to help this along, I'm all for it.
Exactly, and that is why TLR is going back today and I will purchase it when I can get it in the $20-$30 price range.

And technical issues are hard to judge a game on. A lot of the time it is a matter of taste and tolerance of the person playing it. Some people concidered the texture pop-in for Mass Effect gamebreaking while others (like myself) barely noticed it. There are fundamentally broken games, but TLR isn't one of them. It has issues, but isn't quite ready to be committed...

It's hard, but no more so than judging a game on any other element of a game. Taste and tolerance differ on those too.

IMO, I think developers need to get the message that while it looks good on paper to push the envelope it sometimes deminishes the games presentation. Then again, I am sure they would take a beating by reviewers if they happen to drop the resolution or pixel count. Maybe we as gamers are starting to ask for too much.

Orca

11-28-2008, 10:37 AM

We should be getting to a point in gaming that we do not have video lag and/or textures loading 30-90 seconds after the next scene loads or patches on launch day.

Is there a game that has 30-90 second texture pop-in? The worst I've ever seen was Haze, with textures popping in at 8-10 seconds max.

Kelegacy

11-28-2008, 11:01 AM

Okay, I'm only fighting in Dilmoor (at the end), very early still but I'll state the following pros/cons. But let me preface by saying I REALLY dig this game. I am enjoying myself quite a bit. Also, mild spoilers are here, but nothing you won't learn in the first 10 minutes of playing (or reading the manual).

Pros:

-The gameplay! Battle system is fast and fun, relatively easy to learn, and very rewarding. I have found myself combating multiple enemies by using Timeshift because the bigger the battle the more rewards you get...and the more fun they are. Battles can usually be annoying to me in JRPGs but I find myself seeking out fights, and I even played through the first couple dungeons multiple times to get a hang of things and just fight. (and kill time last night/this morning before the Black Friday sales).

-Loading is pretty fast, at last no slower than any other JRPGs I've played, like LO. The only exception is Boss Battles, which go to one of those loading "tips" screens before initiating battle. I have it installed on my HDD, so the reviews stating ridiculous load screens are worthless to me. Totally untrue so far.

-Not having to micromanage unions is great, and adds a FFXII feel to the whole thing. I dig that.

-Save ANYWHERE! A big boon. Love it.

-Map is easy to enter even from inside a building in a town! Hit select and it will bring you to the city map for you to select a different area to move to, hit it again and you can get pushed to the world map. Makes running through big cities no longer a chore. It's almost a quick-travel type of benefit.

-And the biggest pro is that the technical aspects seem to have been overblown in many of the reviews. I have experienced slowdown, and the bigger the battles, at least with more units/unions and enemies, the more susceptible you are to slowdown, but it doesn't ruin the experience in any way. It's a framerate hitch that isn't bothering me a bit. More fluid would be ideal, but it's a small nitpick IMO. Installing it to the HDD seems to get rid of any severe problems the reviews mentioned.

Cons:

-The maps are big but non-interactive, but seem to be quite empty; after Blue Dragon, I guess I've been spoiled by interacting with almost everything, as useless as it might have been.. Exploring is almost non-existant at this point, as chests are fairly easy to find, and there aren't a whole lot of them anyway.

-Though it's also in my pro list, the lack of control over your units might also be a pain to some. You tell them what to do basically and they act out those actions to the best of their abilities. And you can't equip them with items, they basically do that on their own. And you can't equip/unequip their accessories/weapons either.

-I don't really dig the art style of characters and the races, and even some locales. I feel towards this game almost like I did for LO--the character art just isn't ringing home with me. The Yamas look like giant fish and identical. Actually, almost every race other than the mitras (humans) look the same besides skin color.

-Voice acting can be a bit stiff, though I think Emma is by far the best. I like her accent and personality. David is fine too, but again, the other races seem to be wooden for the most part.

-The main character LOOKS likeable, but he's an immature ass at this point. Very rude at times, though I don't think he intends to be. He's just young and brash.

-Dialogue isn't the best, and I found the premise for the story hook a bit hard to swallow so far. His sister is kidnapped, and a marquis and his generals are just willing to help look for her? I know he's the son of a famous scientist, but c'mon.

-The technical aspects, though they don't bother me at all, are a bit unfortunate because not enough polish was put into this. Yet that's the most minor nitpick I can think of right now. They do not ruin the experience at all, despite many of the reviews that scared me before playing. Just remember to install it to your HDD before you play.

So, basically the pros are outweighing the cons right now. And the cons are more "personal taste" than anything else. I am loving this and actually have it on pause...so back I go!

EternalGamer

11-28-2008, 11:53 AM

Thanks for the impressions, Kelegacy.

Also, fuck you for selling me the game. I can't afford this shit.

Seriously, after reading that I was too weak willed not to go order it. I'm not expecting it to be mind blowing, but it sounds like something I'd enjoy. I absolutely loved FFXII's battle system and this seems somewhat similar.

That's it though. No more game purchases for me this year. I don't care how awesome PoP is. Anything else is getting GFed. I'm also reducing my GF and Netflix down a notch in monthly plans and tossing some stuff on Half.com when I get home. Fuck you 4th quarter Game Industry.

Kelegacy

11-28-2008, 12:24 PM

Aww shit. So you're going to blame me if you don't like it. I would rather you rent it and THEN buy it so I would be spared the outrage if you don't like it.

But with Amazon's $40 tag, if you don't like it you can resell it for that or more probably.

Now I'm worried that I oversold you on the game. I hope you like it.

As for the FFXII mention, the disclaimer is that this isn't like FFXII's, but it reminds you of it. You have up to 6 commands to give to unions (basically a group in your "party") These commands can CHANGE AND YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WILL BE ON THE LIST NEXT TIME! (though it's easy to have an inkling) They could be for a special attack, they could offer healing. You just never know from one turn to the next. And, if you pick something like "Attack with Magic", or "Attack with Combat Arts", you don't get to pick WHO attacks with magic/arts in that union or which art they actually use--it's up for the unit to decide on their own. It may be the leader and another dude, while the rest of them attack normally, it may be 3 of them, all of them, or it may be just one. It's really strange, and some people that want control over every little action in their RPGs will be pissed. But it makes battles faster when you don't have to choose every single action. It's fun to go through the list of available commands each turn to see what each character WILL do when you choose it (this is something I found out on my own, it gives you a preview by pressing X on the command to see what each unit will do under that specific command). If you decide to heal, someone might do a special move, use magic, or something else while the person heals, or they may all just be on standby. It can be pretty random.

It's very hard for me to explain this all, it really needs to be experienced. Some reviews have really hammered it, some like it. If you get poisoned in battle, for instance, you don't have the option of just going into your item menu and using a poison cure. You have to wait for that command to come up on screen for a union--if it isn't available, you can't do anything about it. You have less freedom in this battle system than you have in some other JRPGs, but the commands that ARE offered are typically really good and help you out accordingly (the game AI is pretty good at realizing the battlefield and what needs to be offered for commands). I can see future battles being based on luck of the draw, though.

The QTE combat triggers are great and allow some sort of interaction in the otherwise turnbased combat that is playing out. You never know when they'll happen, you just have to pay attention.

So, it isn't like FFXII, but KidCactus and I definitely smell FFXII when we play. In FFXII you can set up gambits, so you have the AI decide for themselves what to do, but in battle you almost have no control (hence the reason for setting up the gambits beforehand). In TLR, your units and unions are fairly smart and will decide what to do on their own, according to the conditions on the battlefield (sort of like AI-controlled gambits...sorta). Flanking, charging, healing, etc. But you do have choices what command you choose each turn, and these impact how your command AI will react in turn. It's all rather complicated on paper--my eyes glazed over while reading the instruction manual--but very easy to understand when playing. And the game describes everything for you as you go along.

Anyway, I just hope I didn't cause you to pull the trigger on a game you will despise. Just don't blame me. I really enjoy the game and the combat system is the biggest cause for excitement for me.

EternalGamer

11-28-2008, 12:32 PM

The battle system at least sounds interesting and different but I really was craving a more automated "gambit" style system (Some JRPG company please rip off FFXII's system soon, please). But I'm not expecting it to be perfect and it was the $39 price tag that really made me purchase it. Also, as strange as this will probably sound, the aesthetic is something I want right now. I'm playing Tales of Vesperia (bright cell shaded pastels) and Fall Out 3 (grimy brown world). It will be nice to have something with a different color pallete going.

Kelegacy

11-28-2008, 12:55 PM

I replied to you in that other thread, but this place probably the place I should have done so.

Oh great, NOW you tell me. This probably explains why you like Last Remenant so much. Does this mean I'm going to have to hunt down some Vicodin to really appreciate it?

No, it just kicked in as I was finishing up my typing. I wasn't high while playing. :)

Before I received the game I was wondering if I made a mistake in preordering because the game started getting middling reviews. I had to seek out Gamefaqs and other boards to see what other people were saying, real people. Some really haven't liked the game a lot, others really love it. They made me feel better, despite being Gamefaqs. :)

Read the Gamespot review. It's actually one of the better I've read. They really only take points off for the technical "problems", but describe the game as a fantastic, epic title. And if you install the game to the HDD some of the problems disappear almost entirely. The other ones are bareable. I'm forgiving of stupid stuff like that if the core game is a hoot.

Here's the Gamespot review link (http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/thelastremnant/review.html). For some reason though, the score doesn't match their write-up. It sounds almost more like a 7.5 at least.

Here are the highlights/negatives broken down on their page for the lazy:

The Last Remnant Review

Technical flaws mar, but don't totally destroy, this long and fascinating role-playing game.

The Good

A long, epic tale in a fascinating new fantasy world Fun, uniquely strategic battle system Gorgeous musical score Beautiful art design.

The Bad

Abysmal frame-rate problems Awful texture pop-in Combat mechanics can be obtuse Losing a long battle means having to repeat huge chunks of gameplay.

Panthera

11-28-2008, 01:08 PM

...

So...

This is MMO raid management, the RPG? :D

EternalGamer

11-28-2008, 01:09 PM

I'll agree with you that the text of that review clearly doesn't match the score. I like pretty games as much as the next guy but issues like framerate stutters are much, much less important in RPGs where they don't mire the gameplay at all than in more action oriented games.

EternalGamer

11-28-2008, 01:11 PM

So...

This is MMO raid management, the RPG? :D

You crazy MMO people have your own lingo the rest of us don't understand. On my way to a movie last night, I listened to my brother and his friend talk about WoW for at least 5 minutes without being able to make out anything of what the hell they were talking about.

Kelegacy

11-28-2008, 01:17 PM

You crazy MMO people have your own lingo the rest of us don't understand. On my way to a movie last night, I listened to my brother and his friend talk about WoW for at least 5 minutes without being able to make out anything of what the hell they were talking about.

Unfortunately, these words have become widely accepted terminology even outside MMOs now. MMO people scare me. They are a different breed of gamer, I think.

I despise those MMOs. I hope that genre dies away someday and we all look back on it as we do pet rocks and pump-up sneakers. :)

Perhaps the reason I hate them is because I know if I played one I'd be addicted like the rest of those junkies.

Panthera

11-28-2008, 01:24 PM

I'm not a raider, just so you know. Closest I've come is a pick-up warband in Warhammer Online. I enjoy MMO games, but I play them very casually and think endgame raiding is silly.

rein

11-28-2008, 01:27 PM

Unfortunately, these words have become widely accepted terminology even outside MMOs now. MMO people scare me. They are a different breed of gamer, I think.

I despise those MMOs. I hope that genre dies away someday and we all look back on it as we do pet rocks and pump-up sneakers. :)

Perhaps the reason I hate them is because I know if I played one I'd be addicted like the rest of those junkies.

I used to be one of them. Not so much with WoW because I had already learned my lesson with EQ about exactly how much life can be drained away while playing them.

My younger bro picked up the latest WoW expansion during the midnight launch, took off from work for 4 days and played it for 4 days straight. I only know this because his PC was down and he showed up at my older bro's house just after midnight to do this.

...I sent TLR back today and wish I hadn't. I was going to cancel my GF account for a bit and play some of my backlog games but they gave me that $9.95 for a month if I stay thingy. Too bad I had already dropped TLR in my mailbox this morning.

Spigot

11-28-2008, 01:28 PM

Variable Gear

11-28-2008, 02:13 PM

I'm a bit torn on the issue. I don't think developers should get a pass when they have technical issues in a game. We should be getting to a point in gaming that we do not have video lag and/or textures loading 30-90 seconds after the next scene loads or patches on launch day. Yet, I don't think a game should be completely trashed due to these issues. So, how much of a review should be taken into account for technical issues? 25% 20%? 10%?
As I said in my post, part of the solution is not assigning a review score to a game.

Kelegacy

11-28-2008, 02:29 PM

MMO Raid: The JRPG is a very good label for TLR.

Kel: Good write ups. I need to get a bigger HDD so I can actually use the disc caching feature of the NXE. It sounds like TLR is one of those games that really benefits from not having to grind the disc every 5 seconds. That said, as someone forced to play off the DVD, it's not that bad. So far, I haven't seen anything that was worse than Mass Effect's pop-in and the load screens, while frequent, are also not that bad at all. You're right about it being on par with Lost Odyssey's loading screens, although they do seem to pop up a little more frequently in TLR and aren't masked as the sweeping battle intro animation like in LO.
I wrote up a long reponse, apparently the internet ate my reply. Anyway, the gist was, how can you not have 6 gigs free on your HDD? Delete those demos and other useless crap. I have a 20 gb HDD as well (Okay, 13GB as we all know) and can only install 1 game at a time, but it's easy to delete installs and install other titles. I install games I'm going to spend more time with than other ones. Last week it was it Fallout 3, and when Gamefly titles show up I install them until I beat them.

I would love to have a bigger HDD, but Microsoft, as we all know, likes to rip off its consumers. I will not pay the outrageous prices they want for their HDDs. I heard Circuit City was selling the 120GB ones for $99, but I don't think that's a deal, at least not to me.

But you should have enough room for at least ONE game install. And if you're going to play TLR, you'd have to be a masochist NOT to install it.

Also, I find the loading screens can be faster than LO's. I really hated LO in that regard, probably my biggest gripe with the game (coupled with random encounters). When I finally gave up on that title the sweeping battle screens were taking way too long and my characters weren't popping up instantly. And since battles are long in that game usually, I just had enough.

Kelegacy

11-28-2008, 02:31 PM

I used to be one of them. Not so much with WoW because I had already learned my lesson with EQ about exactly how much life can be drained away while playing them.

My younger bro picked up the latest WoW expansion during the midnight launch, took off from work for 4 days and played it for 4 days straight. I only know this because his PC was down and he showed up at my older bro's house just after midnight to do this.

...I sent TLR back today and wish I hadn't. I was going to cancel my GF account for a bit and play some of my backlog games but they gave me that $9.95 for a month if I stay thingy. Too bad I had already dropped TLR in my mailbox this morning.

I'm going to cancel my GF as well. I tried to this past month but they offered me a sweet deal like they did you. So I took them up on it. As it stands now, it's hard for me to find games in the list that I really want to rent. I have enough from these recent sales that I don't need GF anymore. I will throw a few more short games on the pile to chew through, and after that I'm pretty much done. It doesn't even feel like I have GF anyway, since I'm MUCH more often without games than with.

EternalGamer

11-28-2008, 02:46 PM

If you have a lot of Arcade games it can really eat up the space. I have around 40 and some Rockband stuff and the free space on my drive was rapidly disappearing. 20GB was fine for the first couple of years, but I can easily see how someone who plays a lot of Live Arcade stuff (and really everyone should, XBLA is one the best things about the 360) could be about out of space.

Thankfully, I just picked up one of those $299 Elites from Dell a couple of months ago. Even after installing a couple of games, putting several music albums on, and transferring my 40+ arcade games, I still have about 94 GB free. No way I'm ever filling that thing up.

Kelegacy

11-28-2008, 02:59 PM

Wait, you have 3 360s now, Dan?

I would like a bigger HDD, but I can't do it, I can't bring myself to succumb to Microsoft's pricing tyranny. I would like at least a 60gb one, but no way am I dropping that much cash on a HDD. I'll delete my Arcade games before I do that. I can always redownload them.

Unless I find a deal, I'm SOL.

Spigot

11-28-2008, 03:06 PM

I've got something like 60 XBLA games and a lot of Rock Band content (including the entire RB1 setlist, which clocks in at around 3 gigs).

I've only got about 3.5 gigs free. I should probalby go through my XBLA list and delete a bunch of the games that I bought but barely/rarely play. I can always redownload them if I get an itch. I don't have any demos and only about 2-3 video files, so there.

I wholeheartedly agree about the price of the new drives though. I just can't justify dropping the $100 or so that it costs for a 60GB HDD. Blah.

EternalGamer

11-28-2008, 03:07 PM

Well, yes, technically I have 3. But the story went like this:

Xbox 1: Launch system. Broke. Sent back. Got Refurb replacement, which started getting disc read errors.

Xbox 2: Arcade Unit. Bought to play LO because I was tired of MS's bullshit and the disc read errors.

Xbox 3: Elite Unit. Bought during the $299 Dell sell mainly for the bigger HD. I was running out of space with all my Arcade games (especially after that 2 GB Rockband song transfer from the first game). I couldn't justify paying $180 for just a bigger Harddrive, but at least, with this deal, I got another working 360 for when the other one inevitable breaks again.

So technically I have 2.5 working Xboxes. The ".5" being the one that will only play stuff from the Harddrive (I don't even currently have it hooked up anywhere). I keep one on my computer monitor and one in the living room on the HDTV. This works out well because I don't have to always be hogging the HDTV.

I have never in my life owned more than 1 of any given console before. The fact that I went through a total of 5 360s for various reasons show that MS has a lot of bullshit they make their customers put up with. But it also shows that they have a good enough product that I am willing to deal with it.

Purple Santa

11-28-2008, 03:08 PM

Nice impression write up Kelegacy. If I had the cash I would go out and but it too...so yeah, you sold me too :). But your write up was really detailed. It's easy to tell if someone will like it or not. I really do like the system what you described. I might play this ahead of all the other JRPGs I have waiting for me. Maybe closer to xmas i'll find somewhere having another good sale on it...or try ebay...i'll be away for a few days at xmas and this will be a perfect game to take with me.

Off topic...and a question i'm sure that has been asked and answered...if you install a game on the 360, you still need the disc in the machine correct?

Variable Gear

11-28-2008, 03:10 PM

Off topic...and a question i'm sure that has been asked and answered...if you install a game on the 360, you still need the disc in the machine correct?
Yes, you still need the disc in the tray when you install a game to the HDD. :o

EternalGamer

11-28-2008, 03:13 PM

Yes, you still need the disc in the tray when you install a game to the HDD. :o

But thankfully it just checks to make sure you have it. Which means my ".5" Xbox might be useful for something now.

Now that I have an Elite, I'm ready for them to just go all out and put up full games for download a la PSN. The convenience of not having to mess with physical media outweighs the negatives for me by far.

Spigot

11-28-2008, 03:20 PM

Off topic...and a question i'm sure that has been asked and answered...if you install a game on the 360, you still need the disc in the machine correct?Yeah, it basically does a quick CD check and then reads the rest of the data off of the drive. Otherwise people would be renting games and tossing them on the drive all over the place and we'd be having arguements about how the direct to drive installation is killing the game industry.

Kelegacy

11-28-2008, 03:44 PM

Okay, now I understand you guys' dilemma, with the whole Arcade game and RB songs taking up so much space. It wouldn't be bad if the 20GB HDD had 20 actual gigs in it, but it doesn't. Maybe if I find a 120GB one for $99 I WILL buy it, since prices are not going to drop anytime soon.

Fucking Microsoft. I hope they never rule this industry. We're all going to be worse of for it, probably having to buy consoles without any controllers or wires, and then have to pay $200 for those alone. And then have to pay a monthly fee just to be able to use the machine, on top of the monthly Live fee.

Yeah, I'm very bitter with them.

Orca

11-28-2008, 04:08 PM

Purple Santa

11-28-2008, 04:09 PM

As I said in my post, part of the solution is not assigning a review score to a game.
Unfortunately, those who actually take these reviews seriously don't want to be bothered reading the review. They look at the score and move on. And the game sites like them because they draw in those who don't read. But i'm sure they click on plenty of ads :rollseyes:
Okay, now I understand you guys' dilemma, with the whole Arcade game and RB songs taking up so much space. It wouldn't be bad if the 20GB HDD had 20 actual gigs in it, but it doesn't. Maybe if I find a 120GB one for $99 I WILL buy it, since prices are not going to drop anytime soon.

Let me know where you find that unicorn...$99 120GB...I know it was being offered...just good luck finding one...

Spigot

11-28-2008, 04:29 PM

Fucking Microsoft. I hope they never rule this industry. We're all going to be worse of for it, probably having to buy consoles without any controllers or wires, and then have to pay $200 for those alone. And then have to pay a monthly fee just to be able to use the machine, on top of the monthly Live fee. That's one of the things that is so nice about how the PSN works. I don't care about whether you have to pay for it monthly or not (though I wouldn't want to pay for it in the condition it's currently in) but there's the fact that they offer a lot of free content on the PSN, be it themes, songs, DLC. On Live, it seems as though they have to really pull out the stops and sell their souls to Bill Gates to be able to put free content on the service.

You'd think that the service where you have to pay a monthly fee would have a lot more free content, but nope.