Green Day's 21st Century Breakdown

[Crittias]

It's genius. As good as, if not better than, American Idiot.

Anyone else listening to this album?

[Shadowstorm]

http://www.somethingawful.com/d/garbage-day/green-day-breakdown.php

[Suave Peanut]

Forgive me for quoting Pitchfork (http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/13045-21st-century-breakdown/), but:
21st Century Breakdown is just as pompous and dumb, but it lacks even that old misguided passion. It's a slog, but not the kind that results when a band forgets the importance of editing when in the throes of "trying to say something." Its sprawl feels entirely unearned, three men worried about meeting expectations rather than driven by urgency. The performances are blandly professional, because any major-label rock band of Green Day's abilities could shit this stuff out in their sleep, and emotionally inert. This is the crafting of a modern epic as a dreary day-job routine.

[Crittias]

I never read any reviews, I just downloaded and listened. And I like it.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

I think 90% of music released is as good or better than American Idiot.

Give me Dookie or give me death. This band has long passed their prime and a time when they could claim any integrity.

[violent]

Give me Dookie or give me death.

Precisely.

[Deadend]

I think 90% of music released is as good or better than American Idiot.

Give me Dookie or give me death. This band has long passed their prime and a time when they could claim any integrity.

I am so glad there are a few of us on here who see this way. I get weirded out by fans of Greenday who started liking them since American Idiot. Hell, I think Insomniac was their last great album. Their political stuff has also been kind of weak and juvenile. I also hate how the lead guy does the whole eyeliner thing. It's fucking tired.

I also gave 21st Century Breakdown a chance. It's mediocre pop-punk that thinks it's oh so fucking great. I can SMELL the "WE ARE DOING A CONCEPT ALBUM!!!" on it. Which is amazing as I downloaded it.

[Esquilax1138]

I bought it and I'm not even a Green Day fan, I saw them kill "Know Your Enemy" on Colbert and wanted to get the CD, I think it's fucking great. A nice throwback to 70's style rock opera's, the playing is tight and shows more skill than the usual 3 chord punk band, so good on them for growing a little.

Seems like most of the complaints are it's not like they sounded on their first album. I prefer bands that actually grow over time, if I want bands that never change their sound I'll just listen to AC/DC, which I love but they sound the same over 30 years.

Give me Dookie or give me death.

That's like me saying give me Rush's untitled debut album after they just put out Moving Pictures, or Snakes and Arrows. Bands grow, sound different, just be happy some last more than a few years to have the chance to try new things.

[pomeroy]

LOL @ quoting Pitchfork. Seriously, that's the funniest fucking thing I've seen on CoG in weeks.

[mister slim]

Rush has been all downhill since Working Man.

[Esquilax1138]

Rush has been all downhill since Working Man.

You shut your whore mouth! :p

[Hotcod]

I'm a huge green day fan my love of music, my love of the music i like and so a hell of a lot of things the things that have happened in my life all directly come from my brother handing me a green day cd when i was 13 or so. So you might be able to see how hugely important the band can be for me.

I've never not brought a greenday CD, never, and it's a shame to start now but the vast majority of this album is boring and dull with half of it being trash and at best 2 or 3 worth while good songs. If they'd not been sucked up there own asses by the idea of a concept rock opera album and had edited the thing down to the best songs it might have made a ok album. American Idiot was ok mostly some good songs, some silly stuff, clearly not there strongest but better than warning and this album with a bit of effort could have been the same.

Which wouldn't have been what i wanted but it wouldn't have left me having to say that a greenday album is bad. Which is a really hard thing for me to say but it's true. This makes warning look really damn good.

It's odd 'cus green day haven't sold out as such, not in the way fallout boy went from making one of the best poppunk albums (i don't care if you hate poppunk it's still true) to being all but a boyband pushing hugely main stream pure pop. They've just lost there way. I watched a live session tv show thing to promote the new album and there was 6 people on stage and all i could think was "what happened to the 3 guys writing songs full of energy and passion about thing other than there vague social political views that are really not very interesting" and the answer is i don't know but it freaking sucks.

[Raen]

Seems like most of the complaints are it's not like they sounded on their first album. I prefer bands that actually grow over time, if I want bands that never change their sound I'll just listen to AC/DC, which I love but they sound the same over 30 years.

I'm happy for bands to evolve, it can be good to hear a band trying something new and pushing themselves. However Green Day did not evolve for the better, and that's what makes me sad.

[Suave Peanut]

LOL @ quoting Pitchfork. Seriously, that's the funniest fucking thing I've seen on CoG in weeks.
Hah! Please don't get the idea that I actually read, support, or approve of Pitchfork Media.

I listened to this new Green Day album. I did not like it. Their sound has slightly changed over the years, and while I generally support a band evolving, the fact remains that these guys are almost 40 and still playing pop punk, dressing like teenagers, and writing stupid lyrics. I was a fan of the band from Dookie to Warning, but even as a teenager I grew weary of their style. I grew out of pop punk after a few years, but these guys have been producing the same thing for over 20 years.

I'm going to walk away now. I'm not going to waste any more energy on Green Day.

[EternalGamer]

I haven't bought a Green Day album since Dookie, and I like this one quite a bit. It reminds me a lot of "The Who." Not as good, but still a fun album. I really didn't think Green Day had it in them to let their music evolve at the risk of alienating their "punk only or die" fanbase. Good on them.

Say what you will about the intellectual "immaturity" of punk-pop music. what is far more immature is conversation about bands "selling out." Music is about music. It's not about being part of a highschool clique. You listen to it because it's good, not because you think the band 'represents" something or is like you or you associate with their "lifestyle." I understand why teenagers do that sort of thing: they are still searching for their own sense of identity. But when you are no longer a teenager, it's time to grow up and stop using phrases like "sell out" or using terminology that implies similar notions.

This album isn't profound, but nothing about the old Green Day ever was either. But it is musically and lyrically interesting. And it has variety. Which is more than I thought I'd ever be able to say about a Green Day album since they previously showed a pretty limited range thematically and musically. They were a fun band, but not a particularly interesting one until now.

Edit: It would be interesting to know the musical tastes of those who don't like this album. Have you guys listened to 70's rock? This album clearly has influences from "The Who" and "The Clash" (except Billy Joe has a far better voice than the "The Clash's lead) mixed together.

[EternalGamer]

Forgive me for quoting Pitchfork (http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/13045-21st-century-breakdown/), but:

My god. They get paid money to write that? Half of those sentences are a mess in terms of syntax. The other half are composed of tired cliches and canned language. Reviewers should aspire to be at least as intelligent as the material they are reviewing.

[Lint of Death]

I just watched the Colbert Report episode they were in online and I was impressed how convinced I was that I had heard the song before when that's utterly impossible. It sounds so much like so many other songs I've heard before :(

[Mdot]

Wilco - Wilco (The Album)

[Stmfuller]

I should start my opinion by saying that I don't listen to "popular" music for its povs nor even for the words (however a decent singing voice is important). If you asked me what a certain album was trying to say, I honestly couldn't tell you. Not because I couldn't sing the words, but because I don't think about/don't really care. People that do, really should read a book. 2-3 minute pop songs are not the place to form your world view.
There, that part is done.

I've always liked green day, but I don't think they did a whole lot after dookie apart from the odd song here and there. I checked them out every now and again, but nothing (for me) matched dookie's sound.
Until American Idiot.
I thought American Idiot was a spectacular album that had a lot of going for it. I listened to it over and over and really enjoyed it. It showed progression in their musical style as well as an attempt to grow their genre. IMO it's their defining album.

21st Century Breakdown is different though. It's a lot like AI, which is a success. However, the album does nothing to further themselves as "artists". In that, it's a failure.
If they keep this up, they're going right back where they were before AI came out.

Looking at their body of work and comparing it to what it's following, I give it a solid B-/C+.

[EternalGamer]

I just watched the Colbert Report episode they were in online and I was impressed how convinced I was that I had heard the song before when that's utterly impossible. It sounds so much like so many other songs I've heard before :(

Despite it's energy, it's definitely the most uninteresting song on the album.

[EternalGamer]

I thought American Idiot was a spectacular album that had a lot of going for it. I listened to it over and over and really enjoyed it. It showed progression in their musical style as well as an attempt to grow their genre. IMO it's their defining album.

21st Century Breakdown is different though. It's a lot like AI, which is a success. However, the album does nothing to further themselves as "artists". In that, it's a failure.
If they keep this up, they're going right back where they were before AI came out.

Looking at their body of work and comparing it to what it's following, I give it a solid B-/C+.

I should check out American Idiot because I've heard a lot of people saying the same. Even if it's a "better" evolution musically, I still like 21st Century Breakdown.

[Disgustipated]

21st Century Breakdown is a pretentious, half-hearted sequel to American Idiot without any of the fun or passion that album had. It sucks, to put it lightly. The first single, "Know Your Enemy", is laughable.

And so are the fans that eat this shit up.

[Troggles]

I listened to it once and can't bear to listen to it again. It's horrible. They really needed to redeem themselves after American Idiot, too. I can't say I'll ever look forward to another Green Day album.

[EternalGamer]

21st Century Breakdown is a pretentious, half-hearted sequel to American Idiot without any of the fun or passion that album had. It sucks, to put it lightly. The first single, "Know Your Enemy", is laughable.

And so are the fans that eat this shit up.

It's always interesting to me when people ascribe personality faults to people because they don't like the work they produce. If you don't like something, that's one thing. But unless you can read the artists' minds, it always seemed highly presumptious to me to assume that they were trying to be "pretentious" or werent' really trying and were putting out a "half hearted" attempt and that they didn't have any "passion" when they made it. It's pretty silly to try to read people's mind that you know, let alone people that are complete strangers to you out side of the music they produce.

For the record, I sort of agree about "Know Your Enemy." It's the most uninteresting song on the album and I was bored of it after a couple of listens.

[Hotcod]

But he didn't say that what they where like, he said that's what he thought of the album. It dose not mean that guys in green day where doing it half heartily but even if they where putting there very souls in to the record it still sound half heart to him and to others like me. It's not a statement of the fact of the band while they where recording but a statement of the impression that the productive gives about them.

[Sandman]

You know what ruined Green Day for the fans of their albums like Dookie? "Time Of Your Life". It's the same thing that happened to Staind although you can argue that they were always crap. A band gets one slower pop song that is a big hit and it changes their music trying to duplicate that success.

[EternalGamer]

What does it mean to say an album is "half hearted"? That seems to imply something about the group as do his other comments. Granted, passionless is a characteristic an album can have separate from the artist.

[EternalGamer]

You know what ruined Green Day for the fans of their albums like Dookie? "Time Of Your Life". It's the same thing that happened to Staind although you can argue that they were always crap. A band gets one slower pop song that is a big hit and it changes their music trying to duplicate that success.

it seems pretty bizzarre to me to say a band should be limited to a certain tempo. This new album is certainly a mix of tempos, though. Yeah, they aren't just doing traditional punk music anymore but can you blame them? I don't think it's a matter of trying ot succeed, it seems to me it would just get pretty damn boring after a decade or so of playing the exact same tempo and the same powercords.

I would think it would get boring for the audience too.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

I hate talking about bands 'selling out' but c'mon, Green Day repopularized themselves by co-opting an image developed by 15 year old kids in girl pants.

http://thecopycat.nazwa.pl/audio/greenday1.jpg

to

http://www.theonlineticketexchange.com/eventimages/1641.jpg

What band blew up right before Green Day's repopularity?

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/245716.gif

Also, my 'give me Dookie or give me death' comment was saying that they should've quit while they were ahead. Now they're just 40 year old guys cashing in on the trends of 15 year olds. Everywhere else in society, that's considered pathetic.

[Troggles]

Nice comparison, Tyler. I actually saw Green Day right after AI released and the opener was...My Chemical Romance.

[Sandman]

it seems pretty bizzarre to me to say a band should be limited to a certain tempo. This new album is certainly a mix of tempos, though. Yeah, they aren't just doing traditional punk music anymore but can you blame them? I don't think it's a matter of trying ot succeed, it seems to me it would just get pretty damn boring after a decade or so of playing the exact same tempo and the same powercords.

I'm not saying they are limited to a certain tempo. You just see it too many times where a band does one song in a somewhat different style and their next album is all or almost all of that different style or their style has changed to try and capture those fans that they got from that one big hit song.

[EternalGamer]

I hate talking about bands 'selling out' but c'mon, Green Day repopularized themselves by co-opting an image developed by 15 year old kids in girl pants.



See, I don't have any idea what any of this has to do with the music. As I said earlier, I understand why kids and teenagers get caught up in wanting ot identify with the music they listen to and care about the bands' "image." But that is just silly marketing stuff (and stuff every band is doing in just a different way). I don't know whether or not the guy doing Green Day photo shoots was trying to evoke a Fall Out Boy image, nor do I care. It has nothing to do with the music. I don't care how "hardcore" Green Day is. I don't even know what the fuck that really means. It's just another type of empty marketing label.

[Hotcod]

What does it mean to say an album is "half hearted"? That seems to imply something about the group as do his other comments. Granted, passionless is a characteristic an album can have separate from the artist.

Let me try and explain it again. The album feels to me like the band made it half heartily it dull damp and the lack of editing feels lazy and ends up making you feel that your plodding through the songs. It feels like they didn't make an effort and quality was replaced with quantity.

Now dose that mean i think the band where in fact half hearted in making the album? i have no idea, they might have been but i doubt it. The point is that say it feels half hatred is about what the album makes me feel not what the band did.

[EternalGamer]

I'm not saying they are limited to a certain tempo. You just see it too many times where a band does one song in a somewhat different style and their next album is all or almost all of that different style or their style has changed to try and capture those fans that they got from that one big hit song.

Well, this album is certainly not all ballads. There are a handful out of the 18 tracks, but the majority are not.

[Sandman]

Well, this album is certainly not all ballads. There are a handful out of the 18 tracks, but the majority are not.

Sure, but there certainly isn't anything like Basket Case in there either.

[Hotcod]

Well, this album is certainly not all ballads. There are a handful out of the 18 tracks, but the majority are not.

and only a handful of the tracks are any good, funny that.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

See, I don't have any idea what any of this has to do with the music. As I said earlier, I understand why kids and teenagers get caught up in wanting ot identify with the music they listen to and care about the bands' "image." But that is just silly marketing stuff (and stuff every band is doing in just a different way). I don't know whether or not the guy doing Green Day photo shoots was trying to evoke a Fall Out Boy image, nor do I care. It has nothing to do with the music. I don't care how "hardcore" Green Day is. I don't even know what the fuck that really means. It's just another type of empty marketing label.

Because it shows a lack of integrity. It shows a lack of honesty with who they were, and especially when now their doing political and 'high concept' type of stuff, I don't think it's honest. For all I know their political leanings are just another marketing ploy. To me their now a gimmick that plays mediocre music. I don't support that.

[Stmfuller]

I should check out American Idiot because I've heard a lot of people saying the same. Even if it's a "better" evolution musically, I still like 21st Century Breakdown.

Your problem now is that it may have the opposite effect on you that it had on me. Because the two albums are so similar, I have the subtle feeling that you'll have the similar "meh" feeling I've had about 21stCB (please don't misunderstand here, I like the album and think it's a good effort but I am not in love with it the way I was with AI...AI is still in my regular rotation btw).

There are a number of reasons this album hasn't hit me the way the last one did. But I think the biggest is that I'm clearly at a different point in my life than I was when AI came out...So, my expectations are now different.

You know, for me Green Day really set the bar high with AI. Anything less than legendary was going to be seen as a failure in my eyes.

[Stmfuller]

Because it shows a lack of integrity. It shows a lack of honesty with who they were, and especially when now their doing political and 'high concept' type of stuff, I don't think it's honest. For all I know their political leanings are just another marketing ploy. To me their now a gimmick that plays mediocre music. I don't support that.

Which is why you shouldn't get caught up in what they're saying. Getting your world view from a pop song is as about as profound as getting it off a snapple cap.

[EternalGamer]

Sure, but there certainly isn't anything like Basket Case in there either.

I would say "Horseshoes and Handgrenades" and "MurderCity" are in the same style. Of course they aren't exactly the same, but that is why they are different songs.

One line refrain I saw repeated in several reviews was the idea that it was absurd that the band that used to just be composed of whiny teenagers using powercords to sing about being bored and masturbating should, 15 years later, be writing/singing rock opera with political themes; that nobody wanted to hear "Green Day" evolve.

This struck me as sort of odd. They wrote music that expressed where they were as apathetic teenagers. Now they are writing music that expresses where they are in their 30's. People change--all people (well, all interesting people, anyway). In fact, I would say that they have tried too much to hang on to the image of the past. Armstrong did look a little silly to me on the Colbert Report in all black leather given that he a few years older than me. But regardless demanding that band either "stay the same" or fade away seems a little shortsighted. I totally understand the concept that an artist no longer is playing the type of music that appeals to you, but that doesn't mean they are "wrong" for changing anymore than a person who used to share your interest doesn't share them any longer is "wrong."

[TheEpicOfTyler]

Which is why you shouldn't get caught up in what they're saying. Getting your world view from a pop song is as about as profound as getting it off a snapple cap.

I'm not getting my world view from any music. I'm just making sure where my money is going.

[EternalGamer]

Because it shows a lack of integrity. It shows a lack of honesty with who they were, and especially when now their doing political and 'high concept' type of stuff, I don't think it's honest. For all I know their political leanings are just another marketing ploy. To me their now a gimmick that plays mediocre music. I don't support that.

We are all always tayloring ourselves to our audience. Most of us don't speak or dress the same way around everbody. Going for a job interview, you will probably speak and dress in a different way than when you are out with your friends. You probably also don't speak and dress teh same way you did 15 years ago because you changed along with the culture. I doubt you go aroung saying "bogus" and hang loose" all the time anymore. You probably use more modern slang because everone around you does too.

So they dress a little different in a photo shoot than they did 10 years ago.I don't know what that has to do with "integrity." I tend to think of that as being something a lot more fundamental than how you dress or how you pose for marketing photos. It has to do with practicing what you preach, living up to your word, and not having a double standard for yourself and for others. To me someone who changes their hairstyle everyday can still be someone with complete "integrity."

[Sandman]

I'll just leave it with saying that I don't like the new direction they've taken lately.

[Stmfuller]

I'm not getting my world view from any music. I'm just making sure where my money is going.
Then why does it matter if it's honest or not?
There's a good chance that like all businesses it isn't. What's more likely is that AI was politically charged because of the election year. And 21st was the same because it worked well in AI. Their goal is for you to buy their merchandise. So why care about the "true" meaning at all? Just take it for what it is...

[MagGnome]

This thread is a good example of why I refuse to discuss music with people. Everyone absolutely thinks that he or she is right and those who like something different are idiots, and terms like "sell out" get tossed around far too often.

[Nameless]

This thread is a good example of why I refuse to discuss music with people. Everyone absolutely thinks that he or she is right and those who like something different are idiots, and terms like "sell out" get tossed around far too often.

Thank you! There is no such thing as objective music quality; everything is subjective when it comes to music. Which means that guy telling you your band sucks? They are expressing an opinion that has no basis on fact.

Also, some 'facts' about bands matter and some don't. Just looking at this thread, there are those that hate the fact that Green Day has revised their image, and there are those who say that the image is irrelevant; all that matters is the music.

In the end, if you like it, you like it. If you don't, you don't, it's that simple.

[EternalGamer]

Then why does it matter if it's honest or not?
There's a good chance that like all businesses it isn't. What's more likely is that AI was politically charged because of the election year. And 21st was the same because it worked well in AI. Their goal is for you to buy their merchandise. So why care about the "true" meaning at all? Just take it for what it is...

I'll disagree with you slightly. It's not really important to me whether or not the artists align themselves entirely with the lyrics presented in their song (but in the case of Green Day, I do think it is a geniune evolution). But I do want my pop lyrics to have something for my brain to analyze a bit and not just be full of vapid lyrics about how awesome their milkshake is, or how to spell bananas.

I'm not looking for profundity in my pop music, but I do like ot to be as smart as possible just because I enjoy intelligent wordplay. And this album has some pretty good lines. While the song isn't as musically interesting as others, the line "“Silence is the enemy / Against your urgency,” from "Know Your Enemy" is a pretty succinct response to (and maturation from) the apathy displayed in their earlier albums.

And then the line in "American Eulogy" which actually speaks to the very conversation of the band--well, ok, actually it is the character "Christian" speaking but I think he is clearly being used as a metonym here--being trapped in an image as the pedaler of rebellion and punk dissent:

"I'm a fugitive son
In the era of dissent
A hostage of the soul
On a strike to pay the rent"

And, even though it's pretty sacchrine, I like the line, "She puts her make up on like graffitti on the American heartland." In fact that song, a nostalgic love letter to simple minded idealism of rebellion, is one of my favorites on the album.

The lyrics on this album are not genius, but they do show an economy of language that is rare in pop music. Even when they are playing at lazy rhymes and protest cliches (like in "Horseshoes and Handgrenades": "Everything that you imploy / Was meant for me to destroy"), they clearly as doing it in a way that shows lyrical self awareness.

[Shadowstorm]

This thread is a good example of why I refuse to discuss music with people.

I am pretty confident that this thread doesn't represent the attitude or opinions of all people who listen to music or even just Green Day. On one hand, you can learn quite a bit from what other people have to say about a release from some band; on the other, if two people share polarized opinions, the conversation tends not to end well (and it shows maturity if one person willingly walks away).

[Hotcod]

See the only thing that has annoyed me in this thread is the old 2 sided debate... if a band doesn't try new stuff they get stuck if they do they get shouted down for changing.

Now my personal view is that either is fine so long as the music stays being good. There seems to be a bit of an feel from some people in this thread that if greenday where still making the same music they where that they've not grown up and that is a bad thing. Screw that, i've grown up but not out of poppunk and i have no idea why i should i love it with a passion for what it is and i find it some what insulting that 'cus i'm not a teenager any more that must make me pathetic or silly. It's not like my tastes haven't grown, they have, i just don't see why they also need to shrink.

A lot of poppunk bands have tried to grow up and failed at it 'cus frankly there is a huge difference between the kind of talent needed to write amazing poppunk and the kind of talent needed to do other kinds of music. Which is not to say one is better than the other, poppunk for the most part is easy to play but it's the crafting of perfect pop music out of that punk that is impressive and is stupidly hard to do. I hate that people confuse technical ability with the abiltiy to write songs.

Anyway point i'm making is that i wouldn't mind the new greenday if i enjoyed them, as i don't i would have much rather them put out more stuff like there old thing. I always enjoy greenday 'cus each of the albums feel different over all and i'd have liked to get maybe 1 or 2 more album out of them like that. I enjoyed AI but it's just not the same. Ah well point is you can like the new album or not and i don't.

[MagGnome]

I am pretty confident that this thread doesn't represent the attitude or opinions of all people who listen to music or even just Green Day. On one hand, you can learn quite a bit from what other people have to say about a release from some band; on the other, if two people share polarized opinions, the conversation tends not to end well (and it shows maturity if one person willingly walks away).

Obviously not everyone who is really into music is the same - that's not what I'm saying.

However, I see a lot of these conversations devolving in the exact same manner. Of course one could say the same for games, or any other topic, but I often notice it more with music, perhaps because I'm not as knowledgeable on the subject. I just get tired of hearing about how awful a band is, or how stupid someone is for liking a band, when often this is directed at any band that has achieved any sort of mainstream success, as if that automatically invalidates everything they have to say.

I'd like to add that I really enjoyed American Idiot, as well as Green Day's previous albums, and EternalGamer's posts have made me decide to pick this album up as soon as possible.

Edit - I forgot to quote Nameless One, but I wanted to say that his post is spot on, and not just because he opened it by thanking me. :D

[mister slim]

What Mag is trying to say is that he only listens to Top 40 radio.

[Crittias]

In the end, if you like it, you like it. If you don't, you don't, it's not that simple.Did you mean that it IS that simple?

Music is, by far, the most subjective topic most people deal with. It's funny, if I mention a book I like to someone, and they liked it too, chances are REALLY good that we like the same authors and books. Same with TV, same with movies, same with food...But music? No even close. Everyone's taste in music is SOO different than everyone else's. It's interesting.

Anyway, I agree, Nameless, I like the new album, just because I do. If others don't, that's coolio with me. I'd never try to convince someone else to like an album or group, nor do I listen to similar arguments from others.

[Shadowstorm]

Obviously not everyone who is really into music is the same - that's not what I'm saying.

However, I see a lot of these conversations devolving in the exact same manner.

I assume you mean on here, this website. I tend not to create new threads about music on here because the majority of people here simply do not give a shit about exploring new music. Shit ... there's only a select few people here who regularly post in the Weekly Random Ten thread. Pretty sad.

If you want to talk about music, go elsewhere (I don't mean this in a derogatory manner). The community here seems to be more into games than music (just my observations), which is fine, obviously. This just isn't the place for be-all end-all music discussion.

Anyway, regarding your statement, there's only been a few threads devolving in the manner that you describe. Certainly a lot less than that of other forums.

Of course one could say the same for games, or any other topic, but I often notice it more with music,Many people fail to realize that just like any other media, music is subjective.

perhaps because I'm not as knowledgeable on the subject.Ehh, not too sure about that. Just look at fanboys as an example - arguing which system is better when they haven't played the console they're opposed to. Airheads.

I just get tired of hearing about how awful a band is, Welcome to the Internet.

or how stupid someone is for liking a band, To my knowledge, nobody at CoG has said that he/she is stupid for liking X band. Is CoG the only community site you visit? CoG doesn't represent the whole pie in terms of how conversations concerning music go over. I've been to a lot of music forums and trust me - it is possible to have an intelligent conversation about some band. It's usually a select few who stir up trouble.

Often times I find that when someone new to the forums posts a thread about their favorite band (usually shitty), say, Slipknot, Tokio Hotel, or what not, the regulars pop in and feed upon the lulz that the OP provides in abundance :p.

What Mag is trying to say is that he only listens to Top 40 radio.

:).

[Nameless]

Did you mean that it IS that simple?

Music is, by far, the most subjective topic most people deal with. It's funny, if I mention a book I like to someone, and they liked it too, chances are REALLY good that we like the same authors and books. Same with TV, same with movies, same with food...But music? No even close. Everyone's taste in music is SOO different than everyone else's. It's interesting.

Anyway, I agree, Nameless, I like the new album, just because I do. If others don't, that's coolio with me. I'd never try to convince someone else to like an album or group, nor do I listen to similar arguments from others.

Hmm... Yeah, that's EXACTLY what I meant. I hate when I make a typo that subverts the entirety of my post... :o

[MagGnome]

What Mag is trying to say is that he only listens to Top 40 radio.

Yeah, that must be it. :p


I assume you mean on here, this website. I tend not to create new threads about music on here because the majority of people here simply do not give a shit about exploring new music. Shit ... there's only a select few people here who regularly post in the Weekly Random Ten thread. Pretty sad.

If you want to talk about music, go elsewhere (I don't mean this in a derogatory manner). The community here seems to be more into games than music (just my observations), which is fine, obviously. This just isn't the place for be-all end-all music discussion.

Anyway, regarding your statement, there's only been a few threads devolving in the manner that you describe. Certainly a lot less than that of other forums.

To my knowledge, nobody at CoG has said that he/she is stupid for liking X band. Is CoG the only community site you visit? CoG doesn't represent the whole pie in terms of how conversations concerning music go over. I've been to a lot of music forums and trust me - it is possible to have an intelligent conversation about some band. It's usually a select few who stir up trouble.

CoG is the only forum that I'm really involved in to any extent these days. I was active on a few others, but I trimmed them down one by one because I found myself spending far too much time online to the detriment of other things.

As far as the music discussion goes, I wasn't talking about CoG in particular, but music discussion in general. I learned years ago that music is one of those subjects I'd rather not discuss with certain individuals, much like religion. I've seen far too many people get overly antagonistic about what bands they do and do not like and music in general. Of course this isn't always the case, but I've seen it often enough that I just generally avoid it altogether. It's compounded by the fact that I know less about music than I do just about any other form of media. My music knowledge is much more limited than my knowledge of games, for example.

[Shadowstorm]

Fair enough :).

[Crittias]

To my knowledge, nobody at CoG has said that he/she is stupid for liking X band.For the most part, you're correct. However...

21st Century Breakdown is a pretentious, half-hearted sequel to American Idiot without any of the fun or passion that album had. It sucks, to put it lightly. The first single, "Know Your Enemy", is laughable. And so are the fans that eat this shit up.EDIT: I should add: I have no problem with Disgustipated having an opinion, about the band, the album, or the laughable fans. Just pointing out that derogatory statements about said fans have been made in this thread.

[zarathstra]

I've been a Green Day for since Dookie, and I liked it. If the reviewers didn't, that's their problem.

[EternalGamer]

I've been a Green Day for since Dookie, and I liked it. If the reviewers didn't, that's their problem.

Most of the reviews I've read--Rolling Stones, The Guardian, etc.-- are actually quite positive about it. It's only the "hardcore" sites that are throwing around labels about it not being hardcore enough or whatever.

[Doogie2K]

I'm gonna agree with MagGnome here. I dunno what the deal is with all the hostility and the howling over this, but whatever. I liked Dookie. I liked American Idiot. I may or may not like this, I haven't listened to it yet, but watching the conversation go all P&R on us has been both fascinating and disheartening.

[BigJonno]

I'm with Mags on this one. I either like music or I don't. I can probably tell you why I like or dislike a song, but I probably couldn't discuss it in depth, nor with any kind of authority. Certainly not the way I can discuss videogames.

I've certainly encountered way more hostility and "this band is stupid and so are you" attitude surrounding music than I have any other medium. Perhaps it's because it is so incredibly subjective, or maybe because of the closer links with lifestyle and culture.

[Stmfuller]

I'll disagree with you slightly...I don't think we really disagree here. You just have more expectations from music than I do.
I think we both take music for what it is.

[pomeroy]

I've certainly encountered way more hostility and "this band is stupid and so are you" attitude surrounding music than I have any other medium.

To be fair, Nickelback is incredibly stupid. I'll never apologize for pointing that out.

[Shadowstorm]

To be fair, Nickelback is incredibly stupid. I'll never apologize for pointing that out.

Quoted for emphasis!

[Stmfuller]

Quoted for emphasis!I'm quoting this for emphasis to emphasize your emphasis

[Disgustipated]

For the most part, you're correct. However...

EDIT: I should add: I have no problem with Disgustipated having an opinion, about the band, the album, or the laughable fans. Just pointing out that derogatory statements about said fans have been made in this thread.

My point was that the fans that enjoy this album blindly, without perspective, are laughable. In comparison to what's come before, this album is an embarrassment. If this is the future of Green Day, they should quietly leave the music scene.

[mister slim]

It's nice that early Green Day fans get a chance to ridicule modern fans the same way they got mocked by real punks back when Dookie came out.

[BigJonno]

To be fair, Nickelback is incredibly stupid. I'll never apologize for pointing that out.

Fair enough. I'd be inclined to agree, however telling someone that they're stupid just because they like Nickelback, that's what annoys me.

[pomeroy]

Fair enough. I'd be inclined to agree, however telling someone that they're stupid just because they like Nickelback, that's what annoys me.

Is it OK if I just think it and don't actually tell them?

[BigJonno]

Sure. Especially if your silence is taken as approval, which leads them into more confessions of stupidity.

[civil]

It's nice that early Green Day fans get a chance to ridicule modern fans the same way they got mocked by real punks back when Dookie came out.
::raises hand::

I assume you mean on here, this website. I tend not to create new threads about music on here because the majority of people here simply do not give a shit about exploring new music. Shit ... there's only a select few people here who regularly post in the Weekly Random Ten thread. Pretty sad.
I have to call you out on this Shadowstorm. That is a highhorse statement there. You have no idea if people give a shit about discovering new music based on a few threads and replies. Honestly, you might be the one discouraging people from responding with the tone of your posts. If you don't see the underlying antagonism in the quoted text then...well, I won't bother to explain the sublime pleasures of Nickelback to you. ;)













Uh, who exactly are Nickelback?

[Shadowstorm]

Meh. It just seems interest dies out quickly with music oriented threads over gaming related threads (it is colonyofGAMERS.com, but still). There's a few replies here and there and it just rolls downhill from there.

many of the "post what you've been buying" threads tend to die out quickly.

Edit: btw you're correct about the underlying antagonism, Civil; my apologies.

[Doogie2K]

Uh, who exactly are Nickelback?

Nickelback are a band from my home province of Alberta who are the very symbols of generic, samey-sounding 2000s rock.

bBeGmjtumSg

Enjoy. ;)

[Nameless]

Enjoy. ;)

Dude, if you're going to post any Nickelback video, it has to be the one where they take How You Remind Me and Someday and play them both at the same time to demonstrate how the songs are exactly the same.

Though, preferably, there'd be no Nickelback posting at all!

[Mortis]

Not as good as American Idiot, not even close, but there are some really good songs. I can still listen to American Idiot from start to finish and enjoy every second, there are some songs here that I always just skip.

I do wish they would get back to the Dookie style, but this seems to be what they are now and I still dig them.

[Zero]

Great album, listened to it four times in a row the day I got it.

[Doogie2K]

Dude, if you're going to post any Nickelback video, it has to be the one where they take How You Remind Me and Someday and play them both at the same time to demonstrate how the songs are exactly the same.

Though, preferably, there'd be no Nickelback posting at all!

I did not know that this video existed. Now I'm gonna have to go enlighten myself.

[Nameless]

I did not know that this video existed. Now I'm gonna have to go enlighten myself.

For everyone's pleasure:

pvujgcbaCF8

To me, there is no better example of Nickelback's lack of creativity...

[Doogie2K]

That's fucking creepy. There's about an extra five seconds on the "How You Remind Me" intro that throws the sync off a bit, but it lines up perfectly for about thirty seconds in the last minute and you can really hear it. I didn't think you were allowed to plagiarize yourself.

[Nameless]

That's fucking creepy. There's about an extra five seconds on the "How You Remind Me" intro that throws the sync off a bit, but it lines up perfectly for about thirty seconds in the last minute and you can really hear it. I didn't think you were allowed to plagiarize yourself.

I just love how both songs have the exact same construction, and a muted power chord build-up for all the choruses at the same time! Hilarious.

[Doogie2K]

I just love how both songs have the exact same construction, and a muted power chord build-up for all the choruses at the same time! Hilarious.

Yeah, I mean it's one thing for a lot of AC/DC's later songs to be stylistically similar, because that's what people want from them, really, but this takes it just a bit far.

[Shadowstorm]

For everyone's pleasure:

pvujgcbaCF8

To me, there is no better example of Nickelback's lack of creativity...

Fucking eerily similar.

On a related note,

P7F3O6WYfHQ

[Nameless]

Fucking eerily similar.

On a related note,

P7F3O6WYfHQ

You know, I was thinking about posting this earlier as well.

I'm conflicted about that occurrence.

On the one hand, I find it sad that a human being thought it was a good idea to throw rocks at someone who was doing their job.

On the other hand, I think it's hilarious that Nickelback sucks so much people throw rocks at them.

[Zero]

I'm conflicted about that occurrence.

On the one hand, I find it sad that a human being thought it was a good idea to throw rocks at someone who was doing their job.

On the other hand, I think it's hilarious that Nickelback sucks so much people throw rocks at them.

I'm in the same boat. I think I lean a little more towards sad actually. I mean why the fuck would you go to a show just to throw a rock at some douche?

[MagGnome]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's realized that Nickelback's songs are the same! I used to think that maybe I was crazy, because I know a lot of people who really liked them back when they were big.

Hell, they might still be big for all I know, but I don't listen to Top 40 radio, ever.

[Nameless]

I'm in the same boat. I think I lean a little more towards sad actually. I mean why the fuck would you go to a show just to throw a rock at some douche?

And not only that: Give money to the douches you supposedly want to throw rocks at. What's the deal? Make up your mind! Wishy-washy jerks piss me off even more than regular jerks.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's realized that Nickelback's songs are the same! I used to think that maybe I was crazy, because I know a lot of people who really liked them back when they were big.

Unfortunately for me (and about 30 million others), they're still big in Canada. They won Best Album at the Juno's (basically the Canadian Grammy Awards). So sad.

Hell, they might still be big for all I know, but I don't listen to Top 40 radio, ever.

Mags, everyone knows this is untrue, coming from this very thread, and I quote:

What Mag is trying to say is that he only listens to Top 40 radio.

See? ;)

[Shadowstorm]

They won Best Album at the Juno's (basically the Canadian Grammy Awards). So sad.

This is fucking hilarious. Out of all the great talent, Nickelback takes that home? rofl.

[MagGnome]

Mags, everyone knows this is untrue, coming from this very thread, and I quote:

NOOOO!!!

My secret is out.

Time for me to pack my bags and start a new identity on another forum.

[mister slim]

Wanna know what Mag is listening to right now?
eAw5-uxex8c
And that's enough of that.

[Nameless]

This is fucking hilarious. Out of all the great talent, Nickelback takes that home? rofl.

The Junos are basically a joke. At least we still have CBC Radio 3 (http://radio3.cbc.ca/).

[MagGnome]

Please, I'm more of a "Milkshake" man myself. :pOf course I'm kidding.

[mister slim]

I thought you were all about the lollipops?

[Hotcod]

And not only that: Give money to the douches you supposedly want to throw rocks at. What's the deal? Make up your mind! Wishy-washy jerks piss me off even more than regular jerks.

It might be a festival or such, over here there is a grand tradition of throwing bottles at shitty bands at rock festivals in the hopes they will go away.

[Shadowstorm]

Wanna know what Mag is listening to right now?
eAw5-uxex8c
And that's enough of that.

Ughhh... barf.

[MagGnome]

I thought you were all about the lollipops?

Just because I'm a gnome doesn't mean I'm in the Lollipop Guild. :p



They wouldn't let me in. :(

[mister slim]

Just because I'm a gnome doesn't mean I'm in the Lollipop Guild.

When I said 'lollipop' I meant penises.

[Shadowstorm]

Gay jokes are so stupid.

[diablopath]

I used to be a decent fan of Green Day. They were really what got me into punk, but once I started discovering other bands, their masturbation songs kind of lost appeal to me, which is why Dookie was the only album I ever got up until American Idiot.

I got American Idiot, I didn't feel it was sincere. Some decent songs, but I just wasn't feeling it.

I downloaded their newer one out of curiosity, and I'm embarrassed to listen to it. When I heard my dad come home, I had to turn off the music to save face. This coming from a guy who listens to Tegan and Sara.

I honestly just don't enjoy it. To me, it definitely sounds more like fan service than anything. The biggest quality I look for in a band is that they do what they want, not want their fans want. I think that just has to do with evolution and maturation of a band, y'know? I don't think Green Day is doing this. Although, they still garner some respect for refusing to censor their album for Wal-Mart.

Other than that, it's nothing I would recommend to anybody.

[MagGnome]

When I said 'lollipop' I meant penises.

Really? I had no idea.


Gay jokes are so stupid.

Yeah, some of them give me a chuckle, but the vast majority are completely uncreative and boring, and some of them are quite insulting. This isn't directed at mister_slim whatsoever, just to be clear.

[mister slim]

Gay jokes are so stupid.

I know, almost as unclever as emo jokes.


Yeah, some of them give me a chuckle, but the vast majority are completely uncreative and boring, and some of them are quite insulting. This isn't directed at mister_slim whatsoever, just to be clear.

I think for me most of the funny in that line is that in my head I hear it in Nathan Fillion's voice. So yeah, it doesn't travel well.

[MagGnome]

I think for me most of the funny in that line is that in my head I hear it in Nathan Fillion's voice. So yeah, it doesn't travel well.

Is that a line from Firefly, or do you just automatically think of dick whenever you hear or see Nathan Fillion?

[zarathstra]

Is that a line from Firefly, or do you just automatically think of dick whenever you hear or see Nathan Fillion?

Doesn't everyone? Nathan Fillion is dreamy.

[mister slim]

Ah, you have not seen Dr. Horrible.

JULyx-wZih8

[MagGnome]

Doesn't everyone? Nathan Fillion is dreamy.

He is a pretty good looking guy, although I've never really thought about him in a sexual manner.


Ah, you have not seen Dr. Horrible.


No, actually I have not. I've heard of it, of course, but I haven't watched it.

To be honest I've never really understood what it is. :p

[mister slim]

It's a comedic musical (I'll skip the easy joke this time) by Joss Whedon, about a super-villain's first steps towards infamy. Made on the cheap, but still has a fair amount of laughs and pathos. You can watch the whole thing for free on Hulu. It's only about forty minutes long.

[MagGnome]

I knew that it was some sort of comedy/musical, that it was done by Joss Whedon, and that it starred the dreamy Neil Patrick Harris. I guess I did know quite a bit about it.

I'll definitely check it out soon, thanks!

[Stmfuller]

I knew that it was some sort of comedy/musical, that it was done by Joss Whedon, and that it starred the dreamy Neil Patrick Harris. I guess I did know quite a bit about it.

I'll definitely check it out soon, thanks!

If you don't, you'll fail at the internet.
Seriously Dr. Horrible was awesome...so awesome that I bought it for my wife for Christmas on DVD

[MagGnome]

If you don't, you'll fail at the internet.
Seriously Dr. Horrible was awesome...so awesome that I bought it for my wife for Christmas on DVD

I've already failed at the Internet countless times. :o