14 year old kills dad... story going around locally.

[rifter]

I thought I would put this out, and see what people think. So, last weekend, a 14 year old kid, shot and killed his dad. He is up on first degree murder charges... as a 14 year old.

Honestly, of that, I don't have a problem...

As the story unfolds, we are hearing, now, that his dad physically and sexually abused him, and his younger siblings.

Now... I start having a problem. If it was abuse, give him years of counseling... but no jail time.

My view, is if you abuse a child, well, you deserve the best. What I am curious about, is if these allegations are TRUE... or rumors being floated by his attorney's and/or people that don't think a 14 year old should be tried for murder. I honestly think this will be an interesting. It is heart-breaker, too.

Link to story (http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-may2109-neagle_reaction.34155ff.html).

[Kelegacy]

He could have...I don't know...told someone? Killing someone is not the right answer. Teachers, friends, neighbors...tell someone. At 14, you know better. There are always other options.

I don't necessarily agree with trying a 14 year old as an adult, however.

[torrefaction]

He could have...I don't know...told someone? Killing someone is not the right answer. Teachers, friends, neighbors...tell someone. At 14, you know better. There are always other options.

I don't necessarily agree with trying a 14 year old as an adult, however.

Tell someone? You're REALLY unfamiliar with the psychology of sexual abuse victims, aren't you? You can make no assumptions on whether or not this kid knew better at 14 if any of the ascribed actions are true. Really man, not at all.

[Kelegacy]

Tell someone? You're REALLY unfamiliar with the psychology of sexual abuse victims, aren't you? You can make no assumptions on whether or not this kid knew better at 14 if any of the ascribed actions are true. Really man, not at all.

I'm all too familiar. And I still think murdering someone is the worst possible way to resolve an issue. If we let that slide we're going to have a lot of justified homicides on our hands. What you're saying is that there were no other options for him and that murder was the only solution. I find that a weak defense.

But he must be telling people he was abused NOW, since it's going to be used in his defense. Why couldn't he have done that BEFORE he killed his father?

[Johan]

I blame the schools.

Dammit. Where is that plum? I'm so glad the year is over.

[torrefaction]

I'm all too familiar. And I still think murdering someone is the worst possible way to resolve an issue. If we let that slide we're going to have a lot of justified homicides on our hands. What you're saying is that there were no other options for him and that murder was the only solution. I find that a weak defense.

But he must be telling people he was abused NOW, since it's going to be used in his defense. Why couldn't he have done that BEFORE he killed his father?

Not knowing the full story, you could be right.

However if the abuse was continuing, and current, then no, there were no other options in his mind. He was convinced he'd be hurt and shunned if he ever told a word, he was trapped in a violent nightmare, and he finally...just for a second, found a moment of power.

Now that it's over, the release of all those emotions are occuring, and he's being forced to talk about it.

I speak as a victim of abuse, but not sexual abuse. I had a support system, and I almost took the same action. Luckily for me, it wasn't that severe.

[Ink Asylum]

Agreed, torrefaction. Until more details are out I'll reserve judgment, but if the abuse was sustained, severe, and been going on for years, just telling someone is incredibly difficult for a young teen to do.

[Lithium Flower]

This reminds me of a very interesting case under English Law, the acclaimed R v Ahluwalia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiranjit_Ahluwalia). The wife convicted of murdering her husband had her verdict overturned on appeal and commuted to manslaughter in a landmark judgement which changed the very definition of provocation to include just such a scenario. Where the accused is a victim of a chronic, long-term abuse at the hands of the deceased and where the perpetrator of the abuse was someone in a position of authority or control over the life and well-being of the defendant.

In R v Ahluwalia, the wife had been abused physically and sexually for several years by her husband and finally when she just couldn't take it one night, she waited for him to go to bed and set him on fire.

At first instance it was held to be murder, because she had had time to 'cool off' since her last abuse and there was evidence of clear headed thinking and planning of the deed, but on appeal she was allowed the defence of provocation.

Under English Law at least, I believe this kid could potentially have the same defence available to him.

[Scarlet Hippopotamus]

Irresponsible journalism. They are very clear that they do not have ANY information indicating that these may have been motivations for the murder, but they write the story anyway.

[Inspector Fowler]

IF that is the case, it may be not prosecuted. There was a local woman (who I have met personally) who shot her husband to death. The cops had arrested him many times for hitting her. She was too afraid to tell him he couldn't come back so he kept living there despite the restraining orders it violated (restraining orders are just paper, after all).

One day, he came into the bathroom while she was taking a dump and pistol whipped her. Then, to his misfortune, he passed out drunk on the bed and left the pistol nearby. He awoke to find her straddling him with his revolver. According to the cops who interviewed her later, his last words were, "You don't have the guts." Well, she did.

Her defense attorneys put together a history of abuse, much of which was documented by his previous arrests. The DA declined to prosecute. There is a legal precedent for the DA's decision, but I can't remember the case or the legal term.

I don't know any of the real facts of this case but sometimes they can prove that a person was provoked far beyond a reasonable person's ability to exist and that at that point they felt killing the other party was the only way they could survive.

[CES]

That's still a manslaughter charge in the UK though (I think).

Planned killing = Murder
Heat of the moment = Manslaughter

That might not be the case but I'm fairly sure it's how it works in the UK. If it is, then the kid would still be looking at fairly lengthy jail time.

[rifter]

Honestly, if the father was abusing... as I said in the first post. Let the kid off with mandatory weekly counseling until 18, or 21. Honestly, I would have no problem with social security funding counseling for as long as this kid feels he needs it, into adult hood.

my ex-wife was physically, emotionally, and sexually abused as child.

I have no sympathy for those predators. None, at all. I think an instant death, is too good for people like this. What it does to a person, for the rest of their LIVES... is disturbing.

[Loki]

Doesn't surprise me. It was in Caldwell. That place is a dump.

[Jackel]

Doesn't surprise me. It was in Caldwell. That place is a dump.

Yikes. And that is where the wife goes to school so we're headed there in the fall.

Thankfully we'll be right on campus (College of Idaho - formerly Albertsons College of Idaho). Which is a decent area from what I saw as long as we stay on campus grounds we should be ok.

[rifter]

Jackel, you can't say I didn't try to warn ya!! :-)

Actually, from what I know of the area, it is kind of the nice area... or at least, well... you know... don't look like a target... you should be safe. :-)

Caldwell is low-income. Very low income for the area.

[Jackel]

Jackel, you can't say I didn't try to warn ya!! :-)

Actually, from what I know of the area, it is kind of the nice area... or at least, well... you know... don't look like a target... you should be safe. :-)

Caldwell is low-income. Very low income for the area.

My personal safety I'm not too worried about...just my kid and the wife. But they probably won't walk around outside of the campus much / if at all.

I remember the first time I visited her at college there. I took the greyhound, and I stopped in a dive bar on my walk to the campus. The bar felt like I had more cash on me than the networth of everyone else in the bar lol.

[Loki]

The only area in Caldwell that I feel safe in is the College of Idaho campus and its surrounding area +/- 5 blocks.

[rifter]

Another about the shooting:
The mother speaks out (http://www.ktvb.com/news/localnews/stories/ktvbn-may2709-neagle_interview.2074ae94.html).

I guess the Today show was in town to do a segment on this kid, but the story got bumped. There is a small chance it will be on the NBC nightly news.

[Lithium Flower]

That's still a manslaughter charge in the UK though (I think).

Planned killing = Murder
Heat of the moment = Manslaughter

That might not be the case but I'm fairly sure it's how it works in the UK. If it is, then the kid would still be looking at fairly lengthy jail time.

Yes, any intentional or non-intentional killing of another person if not justifiable by a defence, would fall under some type of manslaughter.

In R v Ahluwahlia, the defendent's charges were reduced to manslaughter and she was released with time-served.

In a manslaughter case, there is no mandatory sentence so the court can tailor the sentence to the need of the hour.

[Ultima Thulian]

Either the kid was a bit fruity, or his dad had it coming. I'm betting on the latter.