Comic Day Week 18 - April 29, 2009

[DoctorFinger]

http://www.colonyofgamers.com/images/JohnnyGigawatt_2_500px.jpg (http://johnnygigawatt.com/)

The Tiger Men are back, and better than ever. No simple epidemic can keep us down! On today's show we talk about Megan Fox' hooker-wear in Jonah Hex, the awesome honesty of Mark Waid, and whether Jason Statham is the greatest action star of this generation. To see what you'll find in your local comic shop, head over to Diamond (http://previewsworld.com/public/default.asp?t=2&m=1&c=6&s=428).

And just a reminder, this Saturday is Free Comic Book Day. Among the books you can get gratis at your LCS, Blackest Night #0, an original Avengers story from Brian Bendis and Jim Cheung and Aliens/Predator from Dark Horse.

Another big week. My heart is happy, my wallet weeps.

DC
Final Crisis Legion Of Three Worlds #4
Green Lantern #40
Justice Society Of America #26
Literals #1
Superman #687
Trinity #48
Wonder Woman #31

Marvel
Dark Avengers #4
Dark Reign The Cabal
Ms Marvel #38
Nova #24
Runaways #9
Thunderbolts #131
Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk #5
Uncanny X-Men #509

Indie
GI Joe Origins #3
Star Wars Legacy #35

Picks of the Week

Final Crisis Legion Of Three Worlds #4 - It's late, but it's also awesome.

Literals #1 - Part three of the great Fables crossover, the Literals stars...well it's hard to explain. The Literals are the physical embodiments of literary concepts. The pathetic fallacy. The editing process. Revisions in general. It's a bit high concept, but for a franchise so explicitly built around literary underpinnings, it's a logical one.

Dark Reign The Cabal - A one shot featuring a number of shorts about the Cabal, aka the Illuminaughty. They've all over the place right now, but they're still interesting and compelling characters. Some really good creators on this one, too.

Question of the Week - You have the power to force any creators to return to a previous work for an extended run. Who would you choose?

[Savok]

Ellis/Immonen back on Nextwave, of course.

[Spigot]

QOTW: What Savok said... and Fabian Neiczia (writing) and whoever did the interiors for Cable & Deadpool, with another batch of Skottie Young covers, if you please.

Here's what I'm getting this week... or at least what should be in my pile:

Marvel
DARK AVENGERS #4
THUNDERBOLTS #131
ULTIMATE WOLVERINE VS HULK #5

And that looks to be it. Oh well. I'm not really complaining. I need to save money something fierce, so minimal floppies (and no new trades) is all right with me!

Alas, I doubt I'll be able to make it to FCBD this year. I'm usually on the ball and take the day off or (if I'm lucky) it falls on my weekend off. Alas, I'm stuck at work Saturday morning and we're short some staff, so I won't be able to even sneak out for 20-30 minutes to grab anything. Oh well.

[Savok]

The beauty of a new Cable and Deadpool book is it wouldn't have to clash with whole Messiah baby thing. If Jenny Quantum can have two dads then so can Hope.

[muddi900]

Pulls:
Astounding Wolf-Man #15
Dark Avengers #4
Dark Reign Cabal
Final Crisis Legion Of Three Worlds #4 (OF 5)
Green Lantern #40
Justice Society Of America #26
Literals #1 (OF 3)
Ms Marvel #38
Superman #687

QOTW:
Brian Bendis and Michael Avon Oeming on Powers. I know they say it will be back, but I think it's just to sedate the scores of rabid junkies, looking for their Walker/Pilgrim fix.

Brian K. Vaughn on Runaways. Is the new series any good, I may pick up a trade. I know Terry Moore is a good writer, but so was Joss Whedon.

[MosBen]

First, if Jason Statham is the greatest action star of his generation then that says more about the poor quality of his peers than it does about his skills. The guys makes five movies in two franchises, and the first movies of those franchises weren't particularly good to begin with. Granted, Lock, Stock and Snatch were pretty damn good, but I don't know that I'm willing to crown him the action king based just on those.

For comics, I picked up a couple Daredevil trades from Bendis' run, Ultimate Spidey's Clone Saga, and a Lucifer trade. I'll whip up reviews after I've had a chance to read them, but I think the odds are pretty good that I'll be pleased. What I've read of the Ultimate Spidey has been up to its usual high entertainment value.

As for creators back on a comic, my all time favorite books don't really lend themselves to creators going back. Gaiman on Sandman, Vaughn on Y. I do like the suggestion of Vaughn on Runaways, and though The Oath was a mini, I think I'd like to see Vaughn do a run of Dr. Strange. Slott on She-Hulk would be nice. The 52 writers on a digest type of book involving D-list characters.

[Spigot]

The 52 writers on a digest type of book involving D-list characters.If DC were to do something of this level and quality again, I'd be more than happy to get back into the DCU. Something a little less meta, please!

[MosBen]

Spigot, Wednesday Comics sounds interesting, but we'll see how it goes.

[Savok]

Haven't you heard? 52 was awful (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/40896).

The biggest challenge was actually, wisely, kept from us by Steve. EIC Dan Didio, who first championed the concept, hated what we were doing. H-A-T-E-D 52. Would storm up and down the halls telling everyone how much he hated it. And Steve, God bless him, kept us out of the loop on that particular drama. Siglain, having less seniority, was less able to do so, and there's one issue of 52 near the end that was written almost totally by Dan and Keith Giffen because none of the writers could plot it to Dan's satisfaction. Which was and is his prerogative as EIC, but man, there's little more demoralizing than taking the ball down to the one-yard line and then being benched by the guy who kept referring to COUNTDOWN as "52 done right."

[muddi900]

First, if Jason Statham is the greatest action star of his generation then that says more about the poor quality of his peers than it does about his skills. The guys makes five movies in two franchises, and the first movies of those franchises weren't particularly good to begin with. Granted, Lock, Stock and Snatch were pretty damn good, but I don't know that I'm willing to crown him the action king based just on those.


Is this referring to the podcast?

Anyway, the 52 writers cannot reunite because Waid is now Boom EIC. While he will do work for both companies, he cannot commit to such a huge book. Rucka isn't exclusive as well.

Brian K. Vaughn return on Runaways is a pipe dream. He's a producer now on Lost, so this means he has a bright future in TV in front of him. I believe in a year or so when Ex Machina finishes up, he will quit comics altogether.

Also, Ultimate Clone Saga surprisingly doesn't suck. In fact, it's quite good.

EDIT: And somebody should hit Spigot with Green Lantern hard covers. Maybe then he'll stop hatin' on DC and start enjoying some awesome comics.

[Cupelix]

QOTW:
Brian Bendis and Michael Avon Oeming on Powers. I know they say it will be back, but I think it's just to sedate the scores of rabid junkies, looking for their Walker/Pilgrim fix.

Brian K. Vaughn on Runaways. Is the new series any good, I may pick up a trade. I know Terry Moore is a good writer, but so was Joss Whedon.
I was going to say Vaughn on Runaways. Its been shit since he left. I sadly dropped it.

Wait, is Powers on hold? I hadn't heard that anywhere. It's not like the last issue that came out (which admittedly was awhile ago) had any closure for the series.

[MosBen]

Muddi, I know my picks are unlikely/impossible, but the question does say that we have the power to force creators back onto books of our choice.

And I guess I'm referencing the post more than the podcast because I haven't listened to the podcast. I just wish Jason Statham would stop making the same movie over and over.

And I trust Bendis to make any Ultimate Spidey story at least entertaining, but it's particularly surprising given how awful the original Clone Saga was.

[muddi900]

I was going to say Vaughn on Runaways. Its been shit since he left. I sadly dropped it.

Wait, is Powers on hold? I hadn't heard that anywhere. It's not like the last issue that came out (which admittedly was awhile ago) had any closure for the series.

Oeming had certain personal problems which was delaying the series a lot. So Bendis decided to end the current volume on #30 and start with a new #1 "early" this year. He's saying that it is coming in late summer.


And I trust Bendis to make any Ultimate Spidey story at least entertaining, but it's particularly surprising given how awful the original Clone Saga was.

Exactly.

BTW, I checked out last week's ASM, because it was written by Mark Waid. That, too was surprisingly good. I still dislike this thrice-a-month schedule, because extraneous amount of filler.

[Spigot]

EDIT: And somebody should hit Spigot with Green Lantern hard covers. Maybe then he'll stop hatin' on DC and start enjoying some awesome comics.I have the first Sinestro Corps War HC (I haven't snagged the second yet) and I look forward to reading the rest of the stuff, but man. Green Lantern, Blue Beetle and Booster Gold are about the only things I can read in the main DCU without wanting to swish a pencil around in my brain.

Haven't you heard? 52 was awful (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/40896).And that quote explains so much why DC with Danny boy in charge just isn't something I care to contribute my money to.

[AgtFox]

It was obvious Didio was against 52 when he blew the twist halfway into the series (I may be overblowing where he blew it, I forget where he did it). The writers were up in arms about it and I'm sure this contributed to Wacker leaving as well. The sad thing was that if Didio had left it in the hands of his capable writers and editors 52 may have been that much better (and I thought it was good).

[muddi900]

I have the first Sinestro Corps War HC (I haven't snagged the second yet) and I look forward to reading the rest of the stuff, but man. Green Lantern, Blue Beetle and Booster Gold are about the only things I can read in the main DCU without wanting to swish a pencil around in my brain.

Well there's also JSA. And Flash: Rebirth was great, even if unnecessary.

And that quote explains so much why DC with Danny boy in charge just isn't something I care to contribute my money to.

Be sure to check out the whole interview. Worth hurting your eyes with AICN.

EDIT: About the podcast, Red Lanterns were designed by Shane Davis, not Doug Mahnke

[DoctorFinger]

If Jason Statham isn't the best action star of this decade, who is? Vin Diesel? The Rock?

[Savok]

Well there's also JSA. And Flash: Rebirth was great, even if unnecessary.
You must be the only person besides DC to actually enjoy Flash: Rebirth :p

And that quote explains so much why DC with Danny boy in charge just isn't something I care to contribute my money to.
Oh hey, you want another quote?

But now we're back to what I was saying before--how liquid DC continuity was at the moment. While we were busting our asses to rebuild the franchise (and getting periodic fan notes from Paul Levitz, which were gold to me), a whole different editorial office was allowing Brad Meltzer to undo absolutely all our hard work for one of his JLA stories, which (he'd been told) could star the 1980s Legion, as if ours never existed. I don't blame Brad at all, but boy, was that mismanaged on all levels--because it was deliberately kept secret from us until it was on the verge of being printed. I would have JUMPED at the chance to play along somehow, thus strengthening a new Legion series that were on about issue four or five of, rather than sending a message that our Legion was just some sort of aberrant fan-fiction. (Yes, I'm still pissed.) Barry and I were dealt with in unbelievable bad faith, which I could have endured, but it wasn't just about Barry and me; it made DC as a whole just look stupid and uncoordinated, and I still love DC enough to hate when that happens.
You hear the same thing from McDuffie, editorial knowingly keeping secrets so that shit gets screwed up and makes the writers look stupid. Just when you think Joe Q is gaining on Didio asshole levels, bam.

I should be positive now... uh.... look! Bishy Riddler and Crap Looking Harley team-up this week (http://au.media.comics.ign.com/media/143/14313784/imgs_1.html)! The whole PI thing is the best thing that's ever happened to Riddler.... *hopes Didio isn't watching*

[muddi900]

You must be the only person besides DC to actually enjoy Flash: Rebirth :p


Dude what crazy part of the world do you live in?

Oh...

EDIT: Dan Didio has a personal vendetta against Macduffie.There's no other rational reason for what is happening.

[DoctorFinger]

Vendetta is too strong a word. JLA has been jerked around for years now (with the exception of Meltzer's run), so it's not just McDuffie getting shafted. Kurt Busiek was given the book with the promise of a multi-year run, only to have it pulled out from under him by Identity/Infinite Crisis.

Oh, and in case you didn't see it a while back, LITG is reporting that Geoff Johns will be taking over JLA late this year, with Jim Lee on art for the first arc. I have a feeling that the JLA will stop being jerked around then.

[AgtFox]

Holy crap! You must check out Legion of 3 Worlds #4. No doubt about it, this is the best Final Crisis story around and is really the true modern day equivalent of Crisis on Infinite Earths. Really, should I be surprised considering Geoff Johns is writing and the CoIE artist George Perez is drawing? Lots of surprises in this one.

[MosBen]

Doc: I don't think there's a particularly good set of actions stars in that age group. Out of the ones you mentioned, I'd probably go with The Rock. His movies aren't better on the whole than Statham's, which are pretty awful in their own right, but at least The Rock has a metric ton of charisma. Still, when I think of action movies that I've really liked from the last decade or so I think primarily of comic book movies. In that vein, I like Bale in the Batman's, Downey Jr. in Iron Man, etc., but there's so much CG in those movies that I'm not sure they really count. I like Matt Damon in the Bourne movies, but again, I don't really consider him an action star.

[Spigot]

Holy crap! You must check out Legion of 3 Worlds #4. No doubt about it, this is the best Final Crisis story around and is really the true modern day equivalent of Crisis on Infinite Earths. Really, should I be surprised considering Geoff Johns is writing and the CoIE artist George Perez is drawing? Lots of surprises in this one.And this is the problem I've had with most of the DC stuff post-52. You shouldn't have something that is as good as you say it is being tucked away several issues into something that isn't REALLY the big series that had been marketed.

If Final Crisis proper had been as good as most of the things that buttressed it, I'd have probably stuck with it. Alas.

[muddi900]

Holy crap! You must check out Legion of 3 Worlds #4. No doubt about it, this is the best Final Crisis story around and is really the true modern day equivalent of Crisis on Infinite Earths. Really, should I be surprised considering Geoff Johns is writing and the CoIE artist George Perez is drawing? Lots of surprises in this one.

It's a very good story. I haven't read CoIE, so I can't say how similar both stories are, but COME ON! Half of the time I don't even who's doing what.

"Hey how do we make million-strong Legion awesome?"
"By introducing 2 more legions. 3 MILLION MEMBERS! YAAAAAAAAY!"

The irony is that Geoff Johns did this the "Marvel" way to save time. Though the end result is way better than the previous Johns and Perez collaboration. Need I remind you that this is the team that sold you on Infinite Crisis, which sucked donkey balls.

The best Final Crisis tie-in has to be Rouge's Revenge. Seriously, go out their hunt back issues, if it's out on trade, buy it. RIGHT NOW!

[Savok]

You forget DC's trade policy, you might see in it 10 years time if you're lucky.

[muddi900]

Here are the Black Lanterns:
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo299/muddi900/blackest-night-20090429100753879.jpg

Speculate on!

[Spigot]

Mmm. That makes me almost want to run out and buy it, but I have some catchin' up to do!

Speaking of bad news, I'm surprised Savok didn't mention the passing of one Bea Arthur last weekend. Hmm. Deadpool's object of desire passing away a week before his glorious debut on film? Coincidence? I think not!

[muddi900]

Deadpool is in a movie this week?:eek:

What movie is it that you speak of?

[Spigot]

Deadpool is in a movie this week?:eek:

What movie is it that you speak of?You do realize he's in Wolverine: Origins, right?

I'm awaiting impressions of the film before I run off to see it.

[AgtFox]

It's a very good story. I haven't read CoIE, so I can't say how similar both stories are, but COME ON! Half of the time I don't even who's doing what.

"Hey how do we make million-strong Legion awesome?"
"By introducing 2 more legions. 3 MILLION MEMBERS! YAAAAAAAAY!"

The irony is that Geoff Johns did this the "Marvel" way to save time. Though the end result is way better than the previous Johns and Perez collaboration. Need I remind you that this is the team that sold you on Infinite Crisis, which sucked donkey balls.

The best Final Crisis tie-in has to be Rouge's Revenge. Seriously, go out their hunt back issues, if it's out on trade, buy it. RIGHT NOW!
First off, you have the wrong artist attributed to Infinite Crisis. Although Perez helped with covers and some interior work, most of it was done by Phil Jimenez. Ordway and Reis also helped with some interiors. I enjoyed Infinite Crisis. I think it was better than Identity Crisis and far better than Final Crisis. Honestly, anything with badass Superboy-Prime in it has been pretty good (Infinite Crisis, Sinestro Corp, Legion of 3 Worlds). He's probably the best villain DC has had in a long time...Geoff Johns really did DC a favor with re-introducing him.

Rogues' Revenge was an excellent FC tie-in as well, although that was a while ago. Also Legion of 3 Worlds #4 has pretty much taken away any negative aspect to what the Rogues did to Bart Allen. Spoilers below:

Brainiac 5 says that Bart would have died not long after the Rogues killed him because his age was advancing too quickly. The Legion went back to capture him in the lightning rod as Kid Flash before he had the growth spurt.

I'm not a huge Legion fan, but this series has been relatively easy to understand as long as you know the 3 Legion groups here:

1. Original (the main ones portrayed in the JLA/JSA Lightning Saga as well as Legion of 3 Worlds)
2. Post-Zero Hour
3. The Waid reboot

This is far from Final Crisis where, although I've read DC comics for well over 20 years now, I was still confused by much of it. You simply can't create a major comics event where it is expected that you have a thorough idea of odd DC things that haven't been around in decades.

[DoctorFinger]

Don't worry. Even the people who write DC comics were confused by Final Crisis.

As for the Black Lanterns, I can see: Martian Manhunter, original Firestorm, Aquaman, E-2 Superman, original Mirror Master and Dr. Light

[MosBen]

I can't believe anyone actually likes Infinite Crisis more than Identity Crisis, which in my opinion is among, if not the, best crossover of all time. Infinite Crisis is just a continuity reset button that DC pushes ever 5-10 years.

[DoctorFinger]

Identity Crisis was good, but it's a mystery with a bold-faced cheat in the middle. When Ollie talks to Spectre-Hal and Hal says "Go get him [him being who ever killed Sue and attacked Jean]" when Jean was the one doing the attacking.

Infinite Crisis had it's flaws, but it told a big story in a rather concise way. It was pushing the reset button, but not as destructively as with Zero Hour.

[AgtFox]

I can't believe anyone actually likes Infinite Crisis more than Identity Crisis, which in my opinion is among, if not the, best crossover of all time. Infinite Crisis is just a continuity reset button that DC pushes ever 5-10 years.
Face it, DC needs to push that button simply because they screw things up so badly ;)

I liked Identity Crisis, but honestly nothing beats Infinite Crisis and 52 right after for DC events in this decade. As Doc said, Identity was a far more micro event (revolving around the JLA) whereas Infinite Crisis (and Legion of 3 Worlds today) is a more macro event.

[muddi900]

First off, you have the wrong artist attributed to Infinite Crisis. Although Perez helped with covers and some interior work, most of it was done by Phil Jimenez. Ordway and Reis also helped with some interiors. I enjoyed Infinite Crisis. I think it was better than Identity Crisis and far better than Final Crisis. Honestly, anything with badass Superboy-Prime in it has been pretty good (Infinite Crisis, Sinestro Corp, Legion of 3 Worlds). He's probably the best villain DC has had in a long time...Geoff Johns really did DC a favor with re-introducing him.


I'll give you Superboy-prime but everything else was incoherent mess that has become signature of DC events. I wouldn't have known half the shit that was going on if I hadn't read 52 and I still don't know the other half because it all happened in tie ins(like the death of jade). First somebody thought they should kill Dick Grayson but then they changed their mind and then suddenly we have 2 fucking Nightwings. It was as if it started out as something and turned into something else.

Also the death Conner Kent was an obvious lawsuit protection. Of course, they created another Superboy. Of course, now that the legal troubles are over...
He's back

There were a lot of things wrong with it, if I mention them all, I'll slowly turn into Savok. I have reason to believe that Johns did some of his worst writing in that series so that he could give us the awesomeness since then, like Green Lantern, that Brainiac arc from Action Comics(it is out in trade, GET IT NOW!) and the awesome Black Adam parts of 52.

[MosBen]

Doc: I'm not sure if I never noticed the "cheat" before of if I did notice it and just brushed it aside. Still, though the mystery of the killer's identity is something I was interested in the first time through the story, that's hardly the most important part.

Fox: When it comes right down to it, I think the fact that Identity Crisis is micro is precisely why I prefer it to other events. Identity Crisis was a story about emotional and physical trauma, packed with emotion and character growth. Most macro events are an excuse to smash a bunch of characters together (I always imagine a kid slamming action figures together with a "Pwushshshsh!") in big fights, with a big dramatic death to add impact and a cosmic reset button to start a new status quo for the books. Infinite Crisis was certainly better than most events of its type, but I still got way more emotion out of Identity Crisis, and really making me feel something is what I consider to be the hallmark of a great work. Infinite Crisis made me feel more than, say, Planet Hulk, but it was still pretty much an excuse for grudge match fight scenes.

[muddi900]

You do realize he's in Wolverine: Origins, right?

I'm awaiting impressions of the film before I run off to see it.

I've seen that movie and he's not in it:p

[MosBen]

Well, he's sort of in it. Just not for very long and not in any sort of costume that'd be recognizable. What a shame too. Reynolds really is perfect for the role.

[DoctorFinger]

Supposedly one of the "special alternate endings" tries to redeem Deadpool for his own flick. I have to wait and see.

[muddi900]

Well the only special alternate ending reported in reviews was already in the leaked version. What's really disgusting about this fuck up us the faith studio showed in it's own movies. I wouldn't be surprised if the alternate ending was a surprise as well.

FOX: "This version lacks key scenes and is less awesome"
AICN: "No it's not"
FOX: "Our movie sucks"

[Spigot]

Well, he's sort of in it. Just not for very long and not in any sort of costume that'd be recognizable. What a shame too. Reynolds really is perfect for the role.Wait, what? One of the brief shots of Reynolds (sans mask) that I saw at least had the swords, so I knew it was Deadpool.

About the only reason I want to see Wolvie: Origins is to see how Deadpool is handled, even if he's not in it much. If it's a 'blink and you miss him' kind of thing, bah.

At least the Superhero Squad version of Deadpool is much more readily available of late and I've grabbed an action figurey Deadpool for my collection too. I should probably get a second or third so my kids can play with Deadpool while I leave mine on top of my monitor.

[Savok]

Speaking of bad news, I'm surprised Savok didn't mention the passing of one Bea Arthur last weekend. Hmm. Deadpool's object of desire passing away a week before his glorious debut on film? Coincidence? I think not!
I keep blocking it out. It's kind of funny as the first thought every comic fan seems to of had was "poor Deadpool". She was who I wanted for Blind Al as well, she'd of been perfect.

On a different note has everyone taken leave of their senses? There is nothing good about Emoboy Prime, nothing. Identity Crisis was at the height of Didio's bloodlust, it was more like "ok, who hasn't been turned evil or brutally maimed/killed yet? Oh I know the families" then anything about emotions (outside of shock anyway).

[muddi900]

If it's a 'blink and you miss him' kind of thing, bah.

Oh, it's a 'blink and he's ass raped' kinda thing. Seriously, if you are a deadpool fan(which you are), don't watch it at all. Just don't do it. Avoid it like the plague. What's wrong with aal of this is that Ryan Reynolds is the perfect guy to play Deadpool. That was the only thing that kept my hopes up for this movie in the first place. Watching that movie was like watching a visual version of glass shattering sound.

Also, Savok, while he started out as a whiny bitch, Superboy-prime turned into quite a badass. Legion of 3 worlds starts with him killing old farmers with his heat vision. Badass.

[Spigot]

Well, I guess I'll be avoiding the movie until DVD or I go with someone from work. I wasn't terribly interested in it until the news of Deadpool was announced lo those many moons ago. The fact that he's essentially an afterthought, and seemingly not a well treated one at that... Well, bollocks to that.

[MosBen]

Actually, I'll disagree with muddi on that. For the brief time that Reynolds is in the movie, he's great. He's not in costume, but the swordplay is cool and they have him babbling well and amusingly. That he's so spot on makes it all the more painful that they don't use Reynolds more than they do. After the early part of the film where he appears they just make an offhand mention that he was killed off screen. It doesn't end up being quite that simple, but you're better off leaving it there.

Savok, I agree about Superboy-Prime. I haven't read Legion of 3 Worlds, but from Infinite Crisis and what I've seen of Countdown I've never really liked him. I don't understand the comment about Identity Crisis though. Killing/maiming a minor character can certainly be a crutch when it's a bad story's attempt to up the drama, but that doesn't mean it can't be used well, and I would suggest that it was used quite well in Identity Crisis. There was just so much great emotion pulled in that book, from Ralph's marital bliss to his being unable to hold himself together at the funeral, Barry being the deciding vote, Bruce trying to comfort the newly orphaned Tim. Having family members be in danger from villains is a natural story for super hero books, but it's rarely if ever done as well as it was in Identity Crisis.

Killing characters can be lame, but a good story is always a defense.

[Savok]

Oh god I'd forgotten about the mind wiping, they're still cleaning up that fucking stupid mess.

[Spigot]

Actually, I'll disagree with muddi on that. For the brief time that Reynolds is in the movie, he's great. He's not in costume, but the swordplay is cool and they have him babbling well and amusingly. That he's so spot on makes it all the more painful that they don't use Reynolds more than they do. After the early part of the film where he appears they just make an offhand mention that he was killed off screen. It doesn't end up being quite that simple, but you're better off leaving it there.I actually read the summary of the film over on Wikipedia this evening and while I do still want to see Reynolds as The Merc With The Mouth, the way I see the story being played out makes me not want to see the movie any time soon. I think I'd just be mad to only get what amounts to a cameo...

Sigh.

[muddi900]

Actually, I'll disagree with muddi on that. For the brief time that Reynolds is in the movie, he's great. He's not in costume, but the swordplay is cool and they have him babbling well and amusingly. That he's so spot on makes it all the more painful that they don't use Reynolds more than they do. After the early part of the film where he appears they just make an offhand mention that he was killed off screen. It doesn't end up being quite that simple, but you're better off leaving it there.



Dude, he turns into weapon XI

[MosBen]

Muddi, I don't know how to hide text, so I won't get into too much detail, but I don't consider what you're referring to to be Deadpool.

[muddi900]

Muddi, I don't know how to hide text, so I won't get into too much detail, but I don't consider what you're referring to to be Deadpool.
(spoiler)(/spoiler) but with [] instead of ().

Well they actually refer to him as Deadpool and the same actor plays him. He's also the official Deadpool action figure of the movie. Yes, that is the extent they raped the character.

EDIT: He also shoots lasers from his motherfucking eyes.

[Spigot]

Actually, it's not the same actor who plays him. It's a totally different actor than Reynolds come the end of the movie. That's even more galling.

[Savok]

It's a film starring Hugh Jackman, I'm not sure what people expected.

[MosBen]

Alright, I guess we're all talking spoilers anyway, so I won't use tags.


But as Spigot says, it's not Ryan Reynolds playing Weapon XI at the end of the movie. Even though they name drop Deadpool (though they actually refer to Weapon XI as "the Deadpool"), being a different actor and given the changes made to him I'm willing to just think of it as a huge mistake rather than actually being Deadpool. Really though, if there's some way they can bring the character back in another movie with Reynolds acting, a working mouth, and no laser beams, I'd like to see them take another stab at the character. Reynolds really is perfect.

Savok, actually Jackman is far and away the best part of the movie. He really commits to the role and despite the fact that I ended up kind of disliking the film, none of my dislike is related to Jackman. And actually, all of the casting is spot on. All of my problems with the film are related to scripting and directing. The script introduces way too many characters that it just doesn't really need. As nice as it was to see a big screen version of Gambit, he's basically an aiplane pilot as far as the plot is concerned (and no, special effects filled fight scenes do not advance the plot). And while every action movie needs at least a couple lines for the audience to chuckle with, Jackman does that fine without the need for the overly slapstick-y fight with the Blob, another character that they didn't really need.

Edit: This is an extremely minor concern, but I also thought it was weird that they went with "Agent Zero" for the David North character, who was played by an Asian actor. Granted, I had forgotten that Maverick also went by Agent Zero, so it makes more sense now. Still, I can't be the only person that will see the movie and think there's a connection between the name and Japanese planes in WWII. Again, it was such a minor detail that I actually had forgotten it when I wrote the original post, but why not just go with Maverick, which avoids the whole thing entirely and is both probably the more recognizable and cooler of the names. Meh, in the scheme of things there are much bigger problems with the movie.

[Savok]

Wait, you were serious about the lasers?

........

[Ghostbear]

There were a lot of things wrong with it, if I mention them all, I'll slowly turn into Savok. I have reason to believe that Johns did some of his worst writing in that series so that he could give us the awesomeness since then, like Green Lantern, that Brainiac arc from Action Comics(it is out in trade, GET IT NOW!) and the awesome Black Adam parts of 52.

Having talked to Johns, Rucka and Waid, no ONE writer focused on one character in 52.

[DoctorFinger]

Having talked to Johns, Rucka and Waid, no ONE writer focused on one character in 52.Except for Morrison with the space heroes part.

[Ghostbear]

Except for Morrison with the space heroes part.

Also incorrect. I know for a fact that the other writers wrote portions of it too.

[MosBen]

Savok, sadly, yes. He was not kidding.

Ghostbear, don't the notes included in the trades of 52 basically say that the writers were at least focused on their own parts of the story. I can buy that they were bouncing ideas off each other and that they probably helped each other here and there, but I'm pretty sure that in the trades each of them talk about how they focused on their own parts.

[muddi900]

Having talked to Johns, Rucka and Waid, no ONE writer focused on one character in 52.

Actually Waid said in the interview that Montoya was mostly written by Rucka. If you've read Gotham Central, it is very, very obvious. If you've read Johns' JSA, Black Adam parts were quite similar. Of course it was a huge collaborative effort between five writers, the 5th being Keith Geffen, so people no writer could've solely focused on a single character, but some parts screamed the name of the writer.

Seriously, Can anybody besides Geffen written that small Ambush Bug part?

Wait, you were serious about the lasers?

........

Unfortunately no. He also teleported and had Katana's coming out of it's arms like Wolvie's claws. I am not kidding, if you're a Deadpool fan, you will be seriously disappointed.

Otherwise, Hugh Jackman is perfect.

[Ghostbear]

Actually Waid said in the interview that Montoya was mostly written by Rucka. If you've read Gotham Central, it is very, very obvious. If you've read Johns' JSA, Black Adam parts were quite similar. Of course it was a huge collaborative effort between five writers, the 5th being Keith Geffen, so people no writer could've solely focused on a single character, but some parts screamed the name of the writer.

Seriously, Can anybody besides Geffen written that small Ambush Bug part?


Unfortunately no. He also teleported and had Katana's coming out of it's arms like Wolvie's claws. I am not kidding, if you're a Deadpool fan, you will be seriously disappointed.

Otherwise, Hugh Jackman is perfect.

Deadpool has been able to teleport for years. It was a device made for him by Weasel.

[muddi900]

No, no, he had the power of teleportation. Go out and rent Hulk vs. That is the only Deadpool you need to see.

[MosBen]

Yeah, "Deadpool" can teleport a la Nightcrawler (well, like John Wraith for purposes of the movie). Actually, given that Deadpool *can* teleport in the comics, this is something that didn't bother me too much. It's like with the web shooters in the Spidey movies: it's different from the comics, but in some ways it makes more sense. Personally, if they'd done exactly what they did, but keep Reynolds in the part, keep him talking, and get rid of the Cyclops eye beams and arm swords, I don't think there's be any particularly big problem with their treatment. It's interesting to have Deadpool be an experiment by the Weapon Plus program, and it's interesting to have some of his powers be culled from his team. Having Wolvie's healing factor transplanted makes way more sense than just having several random characters that can heal. And rather than having a buddy that can invent teleportation devices, it makes sense to have a teleportation power transplanted from another buddy. But they took the idea too far and took away the most identifiable aspect of the character, his mouth.

[Savok]

Uh, comic Deadpool's healing factor comes from Wolverine as well thanks to Weapon X, it was the reason he joined in the first place, they said they could cure his cancer. After experiments so horrific even a nazi scientist would cringe he was deemed a failure and disposed of by a machine that punched out his heart. It was at that point the healing factor really kicked in going to 11, regrowing his heart, it also drove him insane as his mind is in a constant state of regeneration (this also makes him immune to all but the most powerful psychics, only Cable at his peak was able to look around in it).

As for the rest, I can't even get angry about it, it's just that god damn stupid.

[Spigot]

And aside from the Penetraitor teleportation rig, Deadpool could only do the bodyslide thing with Cable, right? He wasn't a *bamf* Nightcrawler-esque teleporter at any time... was he?

[Savok]

In his first solo series he had a teleporter on his belt (made by Weasel) that let him go pretty much anywhere in the world. I don't think he ever used it like Nightcrawler though, possibly it could only do long jumps (and that one time with Doorman travelling through time for the legendary Deadpool #11).

[Spigot]

Well, I'm going to sit down and read the second Classic Deadpool trade. I hope they have Issue #11!

[DjinniMan]

A few quick thoughts.

1. Johns and Lee on JLA, for real? Pinch me.

2. I preferred Infinite Crisis over Identity Crisis. The shocking subject matter, excessively dark tone, and heroes acting in rather unheroic ways all made me uncomfortable with Identity Crisis. It seemed to be bludgeoning me over the head with "comics aren't just for kids anymore!" that I found it unnerving. It did have its moments, but overall I preferred Infinite Crisis.

3. A brief tidbit about Deadpool in the new movie. We haven't seen it yet, but a few weeks back, we saw the weird new Deadpool action figure at the store. My seven year old son said "Deadpool? That's not Deadpool!" and put it back on the peg. I honestly thought it was Age of Apocalypse Deadpool or something! He ended up buying the classic version. :)

[DoctorFinger]

Johns and Lee on JLA is just a Lying in the Gutters rumor for now. Even Johnston said any announcement wouldn't be until the end of summer.

[Savok]

3. A brief tidbit about Deadpool in the new movie. We haven't seen it yet, but a few weeks back, we saw the weird new Deadpool action figure at the store. My seven year old son said "Deadpool? That's not Deadpool!" and put it back on the peg. I honestly thought it was Age of Apocalypse Deadpool or something! He ended up buying the classic version. :)
When you remember Alex Hayden/Agent X that figure becomes a lot more sane (compared to what it is anyway)... still isn't Deadpool though.

[Spigot]

When you remember Alex Hayden/Agent X that figure becomes a lot more sane (compared to what it is anyway)... still isn't Deadpool though.Yeah, but they have him billed as Weapon X Deadpool and he looks stupid. I saw that figure (I'm assuming Djinniman is talking about the Superhero Squad version) and just put it right back on the shelf.

[Savok]

G1R5PhReY5k

[DjinniMan]

I was talking about this one (http://www.deadpoolbugle.com/2009/02/possible-new-movie-version-deadpool.html), from the movie figure line. The Superhero Squad version is a shorter, cuter version of the same abominable design. :)

[Spigot]

Wait a minute... Deadpool Bugle? Why have I not seen this before?!?!

And yeah, I saw the SHS version and even its cuteness couldn't win me over. I do have the movie tie-in figure, but he's in costume... I think it was in the Comic Series set of Movie Tie-In figures.

[AgtFox]

Johns and Lee on JLA is just a Lying in the Gutters rumor for now. Even Johnston said any announcement wouldn't be until the end of summer.
You/he means until Comicon. Likely place to announce such a thing. Doesn't exactly happen at the end of summer, more like the middle.

[DoctorFinger]

You/he means until Comicon. Likely place to announce such a thing. Doesn't exactly happen at the end of summer, more like the middle.
He said "end of con season" and the only major con this year after CCI is Wizard Chicago, so you're probably right.

[Spigot]

Was there a Comic Day thread from last week? I can't find one and now I don't know what I forgot to buy!

[Savok]

http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showthread.php?t=8203