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Bandango
04-27-2009, 10:15 AM
The Dark Spire Review

Title: The Dark Spirehttp://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showthread.php?t=7900
Platform: DS
Developer: Success
Publisher: Atlus
ESRB Rating: E (Everyone)
MSRP: $29.99 (http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Spire-Nintendo-DS/dp/B001OALQIA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1240458814&sr=8-1)
Editor: Mike ‘Bandango’ Bellmore

What’s hot: Unadulterated old school RPG gameplay; clever writing; class hybrid system; loot!

What’s not: Clunky interface; a Berlin wall of a learning curve; unforgiving quest system; takes a while to get goingI have heard strange tales about the ancient days of PC gaming. I do not know if these tales are true or simply legend, but it is said that a powerful force once dominated the ASCII landscape of RPGs. Though I have not seen the evidence myself, these ‘Gold Box’ games of yore set the industry standard for the dungeon crawl. Bearing the Dungeons and Dragons name, SSI produced nearly half a decade’s worth of adventuring and set the stage for the more graphically intensive Western RPGs that we all know and love today.

The Dark Spire is an homage to these long forgotten games and if you don’t already know what AC means than you probably want nothing to do with it. However, if you miss the days of doing everything in your power to reduce AC, than perhaps The Dark Spire is exactly what you’ve been waiting for. This game is nothing if not a balls to the wall dungeon crawler, and if you enjoy having your balls kicked repeatedly by goblins into the mossy stone of a dungeon wall, then this game was made just for you, you freak.

http://www.colonyofgamers.com/images/features/darkspire/shot1.jpg

I’m not kidding about the masochism stuff. This game will kick your ass. In fact, allow me to say that again in all caps: THIS GAME WILL KICK YOUR ASS. It took me a solid five hours of play before my party was self-sufficient. By that I mean it took five hours before I could wander the dungeon without returning to town for heals after every five battles. It took another five hours on top of that before my party was competent enough to explore the second floor. Let me give you a hint now: you can save anywhere, anytime. Simply press start and don’t be shy about it. You’ll need to. No one likes lost experience points.

The game begins with an inexplicable explanation of the adventure ahead and immediately thereafter the guild master addresses the player on how to go about organizing a party. There are four main classes and four races to choose from with the promise of creating hybrid classes as the game progresses. In another nod to the old days, character stats are literally rolled. If you’re unsatisfied by the result, roll again. After struggling through the clumsy menu your party is sent to the training grounds for a tutorial, but don’t expect anyone to hold your hand. The basics of movement and combat are covered, and afterwards you’re dumped into the dungeon itself.

When I began playing I knew nothing about this breed of RPG. Shocked by the lack of a mana bar, I soon discovered that spells have a set number of uses per ‘day.’ The alien concept of AC (armor class) took some getting used to, and I’m still shaken by the fact that weapons and armor are without explicit stat explanation. Soon, though, everything began to make sense. I discovered a simple elegance in the game mechanics that I rarely see in modern RPGs. My thief disarms traps and snipes away with his bow, my warrior holds the front line, and my priest and mage play support in the back, just like they should. Eventually, everything just seemed to work. The learning curve here is more of a sheer wall than a curve, but once I scaled it I found myself having a lot of fun. It was repetitive fun, mostly had by repeatedly tapping the A button, but it was fun nonetheless.

http://www.colonyofgamers.com/images/features/darkspire/shot2.jpg

Graphically this game is rather bland. Each floor of the dungeon has a different wall texture and color palette, but every room, hallway and door look the same as the last. Atmosphere is communicated solely through flavor text. If you want the dungeon to be dank and gloomy, you’re expected to read so and imagine it for yourself. If you need to flip a switch to open a door, don’t expect to find a lever sticking out of the wall. Everything you interact with is text based as well. When you walk into an otherwise empty space, a text bar will appear describing what there is to work with. This means that the bumbling knight, the distressed maiden, and the switch that opens the gate aren’t there visually to add to the atmosphere; they exist only in the text. Not that there is anything wrong with that! On the contrary, I found it to be a refreshing change from the usual RPG fare. Developer Success also saw fit to include a ‘classic’ mode. I actually found myself playing it as often as I did the ‘modern’ mode. This ‘classic’ mode replaces the dungeon graphics with simple wire frames. It also uses a completely different set of retro looking enemy models and replaces the soundtrack with some nifty 8-bit tunes. It’s kind of kitschy, but a nice touch.

Clever writing also helps this game. A vein of self-conscious humor runs throughout its dialogue and description. The Dark Spire knows that it's a dungeon crawler and recognizes the ridiculousness of crawling through a dungeon. The game pokes fun at itself as it goes along, but not to the point of self-deprecation.

http://www.colonyofgamers.com/images/features/darkspire/shot3.jpg

This levity also shows itself in the quests and the different tasks demanded of you by the dungeon. At one point there is a broken elevator that must be reactivated. How is this accomplished? Logically, of course. You have to find food, water, and a squirrel to run in the hamster wheel that powers the elevator. This may sound like a barrel of laughs, but like I said before, the game is hard. The quests assigned at the guild hall are given with only a few paragraphs of vague directions. After that it’s up to you. One of these quests asked me to win back a priceless heirloom from a gambler at the thieves’ guild. Simple enough. I won back the prize and returned to the guild master to turn it in, but he wanted nothing to do with it. Turns out I had to deliver the heirloom to the nobleman who lost it. Where was this nobleman, you ask? Good question. I had given up on him and was wandering the dungeon when I eventually came across the guy. He was on the second floor, behind a secret door—unmarked of course—down a dark, unlit hallway. Your party literally bumps into him, this nobleman. You know, just hanging out, in the dark, behind a secret door.

This would be my main complaint with the game. The Dark Spire leaves everything up to you. Success built a nasty dungeon for you to conquer, not a fun game for you to play. Don’t get me wrong, it is fun--so long as you’re into that sort of game. I wanted to avoid making this comparison, but I’m going to anyway. Publisher Atlus also made Etrian Odyssey, a similar dungeon crawler renowned for being hard as hell. Well, this game makes that game look like Sunday school. Fans of Etrian Odyssey should definitely give The Dark Spire a shot, but beware. Even hardened veterans may find the extreme difficulty and bare bones presentation a little off putting. This game is about as old school as it gets on the DS. Only the bravest of warriors or the crankiest of codgers need apply.

Score: 3 out of 5 CoGs
http://www.colonyofgamers.com/images/CoG3.png

Mike says, “The Dark Spire is a no frills throw back to the good old days of PC roleplaying. For what it is, it’s pretty great. Minor clumsiness with the interface aside, if you’ve been looking for a good dungeon crawl, here it is.”

ElektroDragon
04-27-2009, 11:12 AM
If the diffiiculty is similar to the old Bard's Tale series, I am going to be in heaven. The fact that you have to go to the Guild to level up makes me think that is exactly where they took their inspiration. I have this game in the mail.

The alien concept of AC? Wow man, you must be VERY young.

Nameless
04-27-2009, 11:13 AM
This looks really good. Maybe I'll pick this up for my upcoming trip...

How deep does the dungeon go? You only mention two levels in the review.

TrackZero
04-27-2009, 11:25 AM
If the diffiiculty is similar to the old Bard's Tale series, I am going to be in heaven. The fact that you have to go to the Guild to level up makes me think that is exactly where they took their inspiration. I have this game in the mail.

The alien concept of AC? Wow man, you must be VERY young.

Oh Armour Class. I miss it so.

Bandango
04-27-2009, 11:29 AM
I think I read that the dungeon is something like 8 levels, and my progress has been about 10 hours per level. I most certainly have not finished this game, but I will say each floor is at least as good as the last. There's a lot of stuff to do on each floor and when when you reach the next it feels like a pretty big accomplishment. Its really easy to get stuck though, there aren't any walkthroughs online yet.

Deimos
04-27-2009, 11:34 AM
I saw this at Fry's last week and was pretty intrigued but then had to remind myself that I'm too busy with schoolwork to play a game like this.
The alien concept of AC? Wow man, you must be VERY young.
I forget not everyone grew up on games like this. Another reminder I'm not as young as I used to be.

Panthera
04-27-2009, 11:59 AM
If the diffiiculty is similar to the old Bard's Tale series, I am going to be in heaven. The fact that you have to go to the Guild to level up makes me think that is exactly where they took their inspiration. I have this game in the mail.

The alien concept of AC? Wow man, you must be VERY young.

This is actually a Wizardry game in all but name, rather than Bard's Tale.

Karak
04-27-2009, 12:11 PM
Having a blast with this. Damn good game. But my favs have always been the Bard's Tale games so it makes sense.

AgtFox
04-27-2009, 12:17 PM
This is actually a Wizardry game in all but name, rather than Bard's Tale.
Yeah, I told Bandango that I had read many places comparing it to Wizardry and he said he'd try one of those games out...heh.

Young Al Capone
04-27-2009, 12:33 PM
This game is super rad.

I also had no idea what armor class was before I played it.

Bandango
04-27-2009, 12:44 PM
Yeah I still plan on picking up a wizardry game. I didn't have much of a chance this weekend, I actually had funeral, but hopefully this coming weekend will be little more open. Which of the wizardry games would you suggest I play first?

Btw, is my gold box analogy at the beginning no good or are those old games and wizardry similar enough that it works?

agentgray
04-27-2009, 12:48 PM
I still think Wanderer is a real hardcore game—starting from scratch EVERY time you die! (although I've not played Dark Spire).

Good review. Makes me want to try it. However could it have been this?:

What's Hot: Unadulterated old school RPG gameplay

What's Not: Unadulterated old school RPG gameplay

Spectre-7
04-27-2009, 01:08 PM
Just dropping by to point out a typo on the front page summary of this article.

...one of the nastiness dungeons you're likely ever to find.

I do believe that was supposed to be nastiest.

Cheers!

Panthera
04-27-2009, 01:16 PM
Yeah I still plan on picking up a wizardry game. I didn't have much of a chance this weekend, I actually had funeral, but hopefully this coming weekend will be little more open. Which of the wizardry games would you suggest I play first?

Btw, is my gold box analogy at the beginning no good or are those old games and wizardry similar enough that it works?

I started playing Wizardry 8 recently, and I'm finding that surprisingly accessible and well-produced. I'd highly recommend starting there.

Gold Box games are pretty damn close, in that they crawl dungeons with a party from the first person perspective. The difference is that they've got a tactical battle mode instead of fighting from the same view.

Banacek
04-27-2009, 01:41 PM
Oh... I need to pick this up. I know what I'm going to be doing on the plane.

Bandango
04-27-2009, 04:23 PM
You're pretty much on the money with that agentgray, its a double edged sword.

Also I'll give Wizardry 8 a try and thanks for clearing that up, Panthera.

Spigot
04-27-2009, 05:42 PM
Ah, AC. I have a hard time thinking about playing a game that doesn't use AC as a baseline.

I came VERY close to picking this up but it wasn't anywhere to be found last week. Now that it's likely out up here, I've read enough to realize that I want to try this, but buying it won't happen until I've given it a shot.

Good review though, Bandango!

Panthera
04-27-2009, 09:44 PM
Ah, AC. I have a hard time thinking about playing a game that doesn't use AC as a baseline.

I came VERY close to picking this up but it wasn't anywhere to be found last week. Now that it's likely out up here, I've read enough to realize that I want to try this, but buying it won't happen until I've given it a shot.

Good review though, Bandango!

I had to order it from amazon.ca.

Spigot
04-27-2009, 09:57 PM
I had to order it from amazon.ca.Oh, you poor dear. Amazon.ca is so awful when it comes to shipping games. It's kind of sad, given how good they are at shipping pretty much every other thing under the sun, but their game delivery service is awful.

I haven't actually seen the game in stores but I also haven't been out to a game store in a week and they were telling me that it wouldn't be in until last Wednesday at best.

Ah well. I'll take it for a spin at some point.

Panthera
04-27-2009, 10:02 PM
Oh, you poor dear. Amazon.ca is so awful when it comes to shipping games.

Hm? I got it the day after I ordered it, though I waited until it was in stock.

Spigot
04-27-2009, 10:52 PM
Hm? I got it the day after I ordered it, though I waited until it was in stock.Ah. There's the rub. Most of the time it takes them FOREVER to get a game in stock. It'll have the right release date on it and everything, but when that day rolls around, it suddenly goes to being 'ships within 4-6 weeks'.

Hawkzombie
04-27-2009, 11:53 PM
I've played this a bit, and it IS very hard...It's been ages since I saw AC and daily limits on spells and text based gaming (pretty much)...but it has a certain charm that's hard to ignore.

I admit: I hate how you can't have dwarves (Lawful) in a party with Chaotoic characters. It's understandable, but I really wanted a crazy Halfling Thief. And Dwarves make the best warriors, it seems.

Purple Santa
04-28-2009, 04:58 AM
Great review Bandango. Love the analogy on how hard the game is. Only because...it's true. I rented this going in knowing this game was hard. This game will kick you mercilessly and do 3x damage to you again when you keep coming back for more. I didn't get far enough to see if it's as hard as Etrian Odyssey II...but since I didn't finish that yet...I'd come back for my beating in Dark Spire. A good game if you are looking for a challenge.

Bandango
04-28-2009, 08:16 AM
There was only one copy at the gamestop near my house. Best Buy wasn't even carrying it. How long did you have to wait till it was in stock?

Bandango
04-28-2009, 08:51 AM
Thanks for the compliment Santa. I haven't played etrian 2, is it harder than the first one?

ElektroDragon
04-28-2009, 09:21 AM
This is actually a Wizardry game in all but name, rather than Bard's Tale.

Ahh, well that works for me too. Cosmic Forge and Dark Savant were some of my all time faves.

Panthera
04-28-2009, 10:22 AM
Huh. I don't really see why people are saying this is so hard so far. The earliest monsters you fight barely have any hitpoints, and you get decent armor and protective spells from the start.

Spigot
04-28-2009, 10:25 AM
Thanks for the compliment Santa. I haven't played etrian 2, is it harder than the first one?It is slightly harder, at least initially, but if you've put some time into the first EO, it will pay off as you'll know a lot more tricks.

The upside is that the second Etrian Odyssey tweaks a lot of little things in the gameplay and menu department which helps make the game play better in the long run.

miah
04-28-2009, 11:37 AM
This game sounds awesome. I sometimes like a little brutality in my diet!

Bandango
04-29-2009, 02:39 PM
A new study shows that a daily intake of brutality is good for the bones and teeth.

Banacek
06-19-2009, 12:06 AM
Just reviving this thread to say that Dark Spire is the best. I am loving every second of it.

Spigot
06-19-2009, 06:26 AM
Just reviving this thread to say that Dark Spire is the best. I am loving every second of it.Now is it bester than Class of Heroes or Etrian Odyssey 2 or just the bestest Dark Spire game available? :)

Banacek
06-19-2009, 09:13 AM
Now is it bester than Class of Heroes or Etrian Odyssey 2 or just the bestest Dark Spire game available? :)

Now I'm going to have to get those games so I can make a official ruling :)