Pakistan - Whuzzup?

[Johan]

Is this true? (http://www.smh.com.au/world/warning-that-pakistan-is-in-danger-of-collapse-within-months-20090412-a40u.html)

We have some members from Pakistan. Is this article/opinion even remotely reflective of what's happening over there, or is it off the beam from a latte-drinking, armchair-quarterbacking, prognosticating nobody?

Call me curious for an opinion from those in the know...the people who actually live there.

EDIT: I FARKED up the link. It's fixed now. :(

[Johan]

Nobody with ANY opinion on this? Really?

Oh...I got one star, however! Yay for me! :D

My teeth hurt. Badly. :(

[Telefrog]

Sorry, man. The article doesn't come up at all for me. Just a blank page with the menu, title, and author byline. Nice picture of a chick wearing a t-shirt, though.

[Johan]

I screwed the link up. It's fixed. Now I know why I got one star. I screwed up. :(

Is Pakistan really in danger of coming apart in months? :confused:

[DoctorFinger]

All I know is that I've been seeing essentially the same article every couple months for the past 3-4 years. Ever since Musharraf fired the Chief Justice and triggered a constitutional crisis. I don't think it'll happen in the near term, but it's not impossible. Dianne Feinstein officially announcing that the Predators are based in Pakistan didn't help, though.

[OldeWolf]

Well, if it falls apart, I wouldn't be surprised if India does something about it such as take over the country to prevent the nuclear bombs from falling into the wrong hands.

[DoctorFinger]

Well, if it falls apart, I wouldn't be surprised if India does something about it such as take over the country to prevent the nuclear bombs from falling into the wrong hands.India would have to invade to do that, which is pretty much the last thing we - or they - want to see happen. They may be related ethnically, but there's a lot of bad blood between them.

[OldeWolf]

If it's the last thing we or they would do, then what can we do to reassure the nukes doesn't fall into the wrong hands without actively stopping it from falling into the wrong hands?

[DoctorFinger]

If it's the last thing we or they would do, then what can we do to reassure the nukes doesn't fall into the wrong hands without actively stopping it from falling into the wrong hands?Nothing. Even a full scale invasion, which would kill millions, wouldn't secure the nukes. Intel actions, special forces, buying them outright, and any other lesser option wouldn't stop them completely. Right now the only thing scarier than the Iranians getting nukes is the complete collapse of the Pakistani government.

[Johan]

Well, I guess either our Pakistani members don't want to comment, or are unable to due to unforseen chaotic events in their homeland. :confused:

I'm disappointed. I'm really curious at times whether the supposedly expert opinions we get here are actually supported by reality on the ground there. Having lived and traveled overseas extensively, I'm pretty comfortable in saying that sometimes experts are idiots in their opinions about other nations, but sometimes they are also correct.

Oh well. Too bad. :shrugs: I got my one star, however! I refuse to vote to change it. I'll wear it as a badge of honor. :D

[Wraith]

Well, I guess either our Pakistani members don't want to comment, or are unable to due to unforseen chaotic events in their homeland. :confused:Well, the thread started 11:53pm Monday, Islamabad time, and it's now about 7:45 am there.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/

[boratika]

I'm tempted to one-star you for linking to the Sydney Morning Herald. That is not a quality news outlet.

[Johan]

More and more, I see how I deserve that one star. :smacks self:

I guess I forgot people sleep. :smacks self:

[Narradisall]

I did wonder when I first looked at that link what the hell it was going on about.

[muddi900]

I screwed the link up. It's fixed. Now I know why I got one star. I screwed up. :(

Is Pakistan really in danger of coming apart in months? :confused:

For Pakistan to lose control, it has to be in control. All the media attention we are getting it's because the world doesn't like a nuclear Muslim nation. It makes people uncomfortable we have a deterrent.

[Johan]

For Pakistan to lose control, it has to be in control. All the media attention we are getting it's because the world doesn't like a nuclear Muslim nation. It makes people uncomfortable we have a deterrent.

Thank you for replying!

I think AQ Khan and Pakistan's history of marketing nuclear technology on the black market is what makes people uncomfortable, as well as the possibility of rogue Pakistani elements (and there are some rather loosely-held regions in Pakistan at the moment) getting hold of nuclear technology/material.

It sounds, at least from the news, like Pakistan has a very tenuous grip on its own national borders/regions, in terms of governmental control. True or not, I have no idea; it sounds that way, from here, however.

[TrackZero]

For Pakistan to lose control, it has to be in control. All the media attention we are getting it's because the world doesn't like a nuclear Muslim nation. It makes people uncomfortable we have a deterrent.

Muddi, I don't think we care if Pakistan is Muslim. I think most people were just as worried when the USSR went down and all their nukes suddenly were in the open for extremists to get ahold of (of any country/affiliation). It's just a dangerous situation regardless of the country.

Hopefully things aren't as bad as what's being reported however and this is all just armchair paranoia.

[muddi900]

Thank you for replying!

I think AQ Khan and Pakistan's history of marketing nuclear technology on the black market is what makes people uncomfortable, as well as the possibility of rogue Pakistani elements (and there are some rather loosely-held regions in Pakistan at the moment) getting hold of nuclear technology/material.

It sounds, at least from the news, like Pakistan has a very tenuous grip on its own national borders/regions, in terms of governmental control. True or not, I have no idea; it sounds that way, from here, however.

General Musharraf was as involved in Nuclear proliferation as AQ Khan. Yet the axis of good had no problems being chummy with him. It has nothing to do with proliferation. The only thing that stops a full scale invasion by Allied or NATO forces is our Nuclear deterrent.

Of course, with constant drone attacks, that nobody in the western media thinks are wrong, and this media blitz against us, I wouldn't be surprised if there is a UN call for nuclear disarmament of Pakistan in the coming years. If successful, invasion follows. America would've a chain of countries in the middle-east. The powerful act and the weak suffer.

Of course, they turn a blind eye to the Indian intelligence sponsored terrorist cells in Afghanistan, and it will come to bite them in the ass, just like it did with the Taliban.

Muddi, I don't think we care if Pakistan is Muslim.

You don't, but most of the "free" world does.

Right now the only thing scarier than the Iranians getting nukes is the complete collapse of the Pakistani government.

The Pakistani governments throughout our short history never had any control over anything.

[Johan]

The only thing that stops a full scale invasion by Allied or NATO forces is our Nuclear deterrent.

Paranoid much? A "full scale" invasion by NATO/allied forces is only held off by your nuclear deterrent? I'm sorry, but there's not enough tin-foil in the West OR the East to build that hat. That's out there; paranoid.

Are we bombing in the border regions with drones? Sure. Pakistan isn't in control of those regions (or, if you are, you're doing a good job of pretending you're not), and people are based there who are killing Americans, NATO troops, and Afghan civilians, going across the border and into Afghanistan. Are we sending in a full scale invasion force, and will we ever?

Um...No. Not going to happen.

Also, your religion has nothing to do with it. We're not friendly with North Korea, and it has nothing to do with Islam, does it? We don't get along with Venezuela or Cuba too well, either.

[muddi900]

Paranoid much? A "full scale" invasion by NATO/allied forces is only held off by your nuclear deterrent? I'm sorry, but there's not enough tin-foil in the West OR the East to build that hat. That's out there; paranoid.


The Pakistani government isn't in control of anything. They've never been. They're not in control of the nukes right now. So this whole argument is void.

Have you ever considered if Pakistan declares those attacks as acts of war? A fucking invasion, that's what.


Um...No. Not going to happen.

Let's have a bet. 10 bucks say in the next 5 years :D



Also, your religion has nothing to do with it. We're not friendly with North Korea, and it has nothing to do with Islam, does it? We don't get along with Venezuela or Cuba too well, either.

I was speaking more in terms of the general, lowest common denominator, populace. They are more than you and they are louder.

[Johan]

The Pakistani government isn't in control of anything. They've never been. They're not in control of the nukes right now. So this whole argument is void.

That's pretty...interesting...if true.

Have you ever considered if Pakistan declares those attacks as acts of war? A fucking invasion, that's what.

I can totally understand that perspective, just as I can see the justification for it when people are being killed by a group of people hiding/living in that region among the populace.

Both sides have a point. Good points, actually.

I was speaking more in terms of the general, lowest common denominator, populace. They are more than you and they are louder.

Millions of Muslims live in America and find it, though not perfect by any measure, an accepting place where they can live and be free. Could I live freely and safely in Pakistan as a practicing Christian? I don't know...I know I couldn't do so safely in Afghanistan, or many other nations.

Also, if you think Obama is going to invade Pakistan during his term, I'll guarantee you a one-term presidency for him. It's not going to happen.

[TrackZero]

I was speaking more in terms of the general, lowest common denominator, populace. They are more than you and they are louder.

? Most Americans, of the lowest common denominator don't even know where Pakistan is. Their history, or likely that Islam is the dominant religion there. (Hell I didn't until a few years back.)

[DangerousDaze]

Onion News are reporting that the volatile India-Pakistan standoff has entered its 11680th day (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/volatile_india_pakistan_standoff), so I think it's fair to say that things have been pretty tense for quite a while now (not strictly on topic, but close enough). ;)

[muddi900]

Onion News are reporting that the volatile India-Pakistan standoff has entered its 11680th day (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/volatile_india_pakistan_standoff), so I think it's fair to say that things have been pretty tense for quite a while now (not strictly on topic, but close enough). ;)

The Onion is reporting real news?;)

? Most Americans, of the lowest common denominator don't even know where Pakistan is. Their history, or likely that Islam is the dominant religion there. (Hell I didn't until a few years back.)

You americans are a very self-centered people. The free world consists of Europe and Austrailia as well, you know.

[Johan]

You americans are a very self-centered people. The free world consists of Europe and Austrailia as well, you know.

Track is Canadian. I know...we all 'look' alike to you. :D

[muddi900]

Track is Canadian. I know...we all 'look' alike to you. :D

Is there a really a way to tell you guys apart? Unless, of course, you tell me where you're form or you're french-canadian. But then, How do you tell them apart from "real" French people?

[JRR006]

You can tell Australians by their cork-decorated hats, and apparently they have a pathological obsession with throwing shrimp on barbies. That's just what I've heard. /Australianracism

In all seriousness, I just wanted to share an anecdote that may or may not be on-topic. I don't think the tensions between the United States or other Allied/NATO nations is down to religion, at least not on the part of the segments of the US population I see. I was hanging out at the airport waiting for friends over the weekend, and there were a group of men praying toward Mecca. They weren't exactly in the middle of the concourse, but there was a lot of traffic, and nobody gave it a second glance. No harassment or funny looks. This was going on right through those stupid Department of Homeland Security warnings they play over the PA system. I really don't think there's any animosity toward the Islamic faith, just extremist groups.

Also, the prayers sounded very beautiful. When my congregation recites the Nicene Creed we sound like the Borg. Wisconsin Borg. "Y'all will be assimilated."

[ClannerDelta]

Is there a really a way to tell you guys apart? Unless, of course, you tell me where you're form or you're french-canadian. But then, How do you tell them apart from "real" French people?

Americans have bigger firearms. Canadians have better healthcare.

[Lithium Flower]

If I may be so bold as to venture a heartfelt opinion here, the biggest problem within Pakistan faced by Pakistanis and by the United States is one and the same and that is that the government and the powers that be, running the helm of affairs are not only corrupt (what random sample of politicians are not?) but also as insincere to the people as they are to the US.

Current President Zardari, is one of the most unscrupulous people you could find and his principle aim is not re-election or even maintaining popularity - it is simply to make off with as much of the dollars the US has been pumping into the country as he can, while he still can and when the collapse is imminent (which it will be, I am afraid sooner or later) to casually relocate to Dubai or London where he maintains homes.

Once the unhappy fact - that the people the US is talking to right now in Islamabad, and also the people you have been talking to in the years before have never had any intention to live up to any promises made to you or us - sinks in, everything starts to make a lot of sense. It is not in their interest to put an end to the insurgency in the northern regions. It is not in their interest to quash the taliban once and for all, to shut down terrorist training camps or to find and root out elements of Al-Qaeda if they are indeed within our borders - no. It is in their interest however to pretend that they are trying, to maintain that tenuous grasp on these borderlands so that the US stays engaged longer and continues to pump in money, which the average Pakistani will never, ever see.

Why don't the Pakistanis do something about this, you ask? The answer is simple. The average Pakistani is illiterate, uneducated and barely able to keep body and soul together. Add to this, a society where democratic awareness is next to non-existent and elections are contested on the basis of clan loyalty rather than social issues and you have 170 million unfortunate sheep armed with an adult franchise, they willingly trade for a free meal handed out once every 5 years.

Drone Attacks and 'Oh N0ez ZOMGEvil USA is bullying us!!!!1111one111!!', are popular ploys to sway public opinion this way and that, the fact is that unless some miracle descends upon Islamabad, we and you, are both very royally fucked.

*SIGH*

[H.Bogard]

If I may be so bold as to venture a heartfelt opinion here, the biggest problem within Pakistan faced by Pakistanis and by the United States is one and the same and that is that the government and the powers that be, running the helm of affairs are not only corrupt (what random sample of politicians are not?) but also as insincere to the people as they are to the US.

Current President Zardari, is one of the most unscrupulous people you could find and his principle aim is not re-election or even maintaining popularity - it is simply to make off with as much of the dollars the US has been pumping into the country as he can, while he still can and when the collapse is imminent (which it will be, I am afraid sooner or later) to casually relocate to Dubai or London where he maintains homes.

Once the unhappy fact - that the people the US is talking to right now in Islamabad, and also the people you have been talking to in the years before have never had any intention to live up to any promises made to you or us - sinks in, everything starts to make a lot of sense. It is not in their interest to put an end to the insurgency in the northern regions. It is not in their interest to quash the taliban once and for all, to shut down terrorist training camps or to find and root out elements of Al-Qaeda if they are indeed within our borders - no. It is in their interest however to pretend that they are trying, to maintain that tenuous grasp on these borderlands so that the US stays engaged longer and continues to pump in money, which the average Pakistani will never, ever see.

Why don't the Pakistanis do something about this, you ask? The answer is simple. The average Pakistani is illiterate, uneducated and barely able to keep body and soul together. Add to this, a society where democratic awareness is next to non-existent and elections are contested on the basis of clan loyalty rather than social issues and you have 170 million unfortunate sheep armed with an adult franchise, they willingly trade for a free meal handed out once every 5 years.

Drone Attacks and 'Oh N0ez ZOMGEvil USA is bullying us!!!!1111one111!!', are popular ploys to sway public opinion this way and that, the fact is that unless some miracle descends upon Islamabad, we and you, are both very royally fucked.

*SIGH*

I'll second everything sans the last paragraph. The rest was local common knowledge, this bit was your personal opinion, which I find non-objective and biased.

Edit: I will say that invading for the sake of 'securing nukes from the wrong hands' is a shitty excuse. Were that ever to happen, it would have years ago.
If the current government gets fucked, the old assholes will be replaced by new ones who'll focus little on controlling terrorism and more on selecting underage hookers for private parties.

It'll all remain the same. It has been up until now, hasn't it?

Edit#2 : God help me, I've broken my 2007 vow from Evil Avatar that I'd never participate in political threads. AAAH! :eek:

[TrackZero]

Is there a really a way to tell you guys apart? Unless, of course, you tell me where you're form or you're french-canadian. But then, How do you tell them apart from "real" French people?

I'm the one that's more educated and not a war monger. Hell, I'm also better looking while we're at it. :)

[muddi900]

Why don't the Pakistanis do something about this, you ask? The answer is simple. The average Pakistani is illiterate, uneducated and barely able to keep body and soul together. Add to this, a society where democratic awareness is next to non-existent and elections are contested on the basis of clan loyalty rather than social issues and you have 170 million unfortunate sheep armed with an adult franchise, they willingly trade for a free meal handed out once every 5 years.


Education != intelligence

People don't do anything because they can't do anything. They are so wrapped up in the poverty and the desperation that's caused by it, that they physical broken down. Their spirit is dead. The reason they choose leaders out of clan loyalty is because it's devil they know.

There might be another reason, one which is quite unpopular, but I believe there is no Pakistan. It's just some lines they drew on the map. We have no national identity.

[ClannerDelta]

I'm the one that's more educated and not a war monger. Hell, I'm also better looking while we're at it. :)

Beauty is subjective. You might find the flappy headed look appealing, but most of the world thinks you're some sort of Pez dispenser genetic offshoot.

[TrackZero]

Beauty is subjective. You might find the flappy headed look appealing, but most of the world thinks you're some sort of Pez dispenser genetic offshoot.

Everyone loves Pez sir.

[muddi900]

Everyone loves Pez sir.

Indeeeeeeed!

[ClannerDelta]

Everyone loves Pez sir.

Yes but do they love Pez's mutant cousins?

[DoctorFinger]

Is there a reasonable situation where the government would strengthen and be able to actually police the rest of the nation, or is that a pipe dream?

[muddi900]

Is there a reasonable situation where the government would strengthen and be able to actually police the rest of the nation, or is that a pipe dream?

Pakistan is like a building that has been eaten inside and out by termites. The only thing left to do is break it down and bring it back up again.


Also, you should not be scared about the nukes, when I said the government does not control them, it's because the army does. As corrupt as they are, they are not incompetent.

[Johan]

There might be another reason, one which is quite unpopular, but I believe there is no Pakistan. It's just some lines they drew on the map. We have no national identity.

This is actually a growing problem around the world. Part of it is historical, growing out of old colonial powers randomly drawing lines with no respect for tribal or religious boundaries/distinctions. Part of it is what I see as a growing tendency worldwide to identify with smaller and smaller demographic slices, which ends up splintering nations apart.

Northwestern Pakistan and portions of Afghanistan are, to my knowledge, Pashtun and could easily be considered their own territory in many ways...sovereign in all but title, really.

[Lithium Flower]

Drone Attacks are unpopular true and it is even arguable that they are causing more harm than good but the government has been so completely ineffectual in the tribal areas, that I seriously don't blame the US administration for trying to do something to get a grip on the situation. Yes, the Drone Attacks probably create more terrorists with every strike than they take down. Yes, the tribals there are most likely feeding misinformation to US forces to get them to target their own civilian rivals instead of terrorists but in all honesty what else do you expect Obama to do?

The US cannot sit down with Pakistanis and try to get through to us without going through the government and there is a reason Zardari has sported a grin like a Cheshire Cat since the last elections.

A US invasion will be bad news, at home - they simply don't have the economy to support it any more and here, well because then all the 'OhN0ezZOMGevilUSA' will suddenly realise itself and it will turn into Afghanistan X 170 million but I just don't see a solution for us any more.

As Muddy said, people are hopeless, they are baffled and numb. They are unable to organise and are fracturing along ethnic lines more every day.

Dr. Finger: Heh. Like I said, it would take a miracle honestly. Historically, the army has always stepped in when things started to plummet (which is part of the problem) but this time the possibility of that is minimal.

Johan: Largely true but just as a clarification, it is parts of the Northwest which have historically administered themselves, not all or even most of it.

Edit: Didn't see Muddy's post earlier, which I agree with, the nukes aren't in immediate danger because they aren't in the government's hands.

[muddi900]

Johan: Largely true but just as a clarification, it is parts of the Northwest which have historically administered themselves, not all or even most of it.


While FATA areas always had semi-autonomy, that does not mean they are alone.

For example, in Sanghar area of Sind, Pir Pagara is king. In certain parts rural Punjab, you can't speak a word against the feudal lord. The Baloch tribal leaders do whatever they want. Here in Karachi, pseudo-fascists like MQM and ANP exploit ethnic borders, whereas people like the Sunni Tehrik exploit sectarian differences, without any interference from the provincial or federal government.

The only half-solution is the oldest proposed; provincial autonomy. It might not solve all our problems, it is the best solution.


Also, even though the tribals are Pakhtuns, they will never assimilate themselves with the afghanis. In fact, in recent times, the "Blue blood" pakhtuns have shown disdain to hatred towards the "savage" afghanis.

EDIT: It's not prononuce muddy.

[Lithium Flower]

Ah sorry, my bad. Muddi then. :)

I confined my self to official self-administered regions in response to Johan's post. The others at least have to put up a civilised front!

As far as provincial autonomy is concerned, too little too late. It might have kept titanic together a little longer but it wouldn't have taken care of the ice-berg.

I feel that had there been time, a new constitution with proper separation of powers might have been the solution but its all too late for that.

Just prepare for the Taliban Zombie Apocalypse!

[Johan]

I really sympathize with your struggles in the region, and I appreciate the input. It has been informative. I've never been to that part of the world, and know little more than our rather myopic press corps cares to present to us here, which is often not much more than an echo chamber of one or two points of view, and little more.

Thanks.

[OldeWolf]

Muddi900
I have several thoughts that begs some questions.

1. How did you become so well versed in English?
2. If you're so well versed in English, how come you aren't doing anything to help promote your homeland's identity as far as we can see from your comments?
3. If you believe there are no National Pakistan identity, what does that show for the culture as a whole? Does it mean that Pakistan and it's many spectrum of current behaviors are no good and worthless in face of potential national growth as a country? (Which perhaps fuels the perception that the Muslim religion as a form of government [Sharia law] is non-constructive and unproductive towards a betterment of a population, for the population's well being. Which in the end, Muslim as an governmental entity is seemingly worthless compared to governments from powerful nations that does not use any forms of Muslim laws or beliefs.)

/ends Devil's Advocate

[H.Bogard]

I'd like to save myself, Lithium and muddi some time on lecturing and am going to request that everyone read up on the basics first (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/story/cms.php?story_id=4782&print=1) in order to understand what forces are at work here.

[Urizen]

I'd like to save myself, Lithium and muddi some time ....

The fuck am I? Aloo bhindi?

[H.Bogard]

The fuck am I? Aloo bhindi?

I always thought you were Jamaican. :D

Yow mon!

[boratika]

The fuck am I? Aloo bhindi?

From your avatar, I thought you were hylean...

[muddi900]

Muddi900
I have several thoughts that begs some questions.

1. How did you become so well versed in English?
2. If you're so well versed in English, how come you aren't doing anything to help promote your homeland's identity as far as we can see from your comments?
3. If you believe there are no National Pakistan identity, what does that show for the culture as a whole? Does it mean that Pakistan and it's many spectrum of current behaviors are no good and worthless in face of potential national growth as a country? (Which perhaps fuels the perception that the Muslim religion as a form of government [Sharia law] is non-constructive and unproductive towards a betterment of a population, for the population's well being. Which in the end, Muslim as an governmental entity is seemingly worthless compared to governments from powerful nations that does not use any forms of Muslim laws or beliefs.)

/ends Devil's Advocate

1) English is compulsory in all for all later school levels. Also, I grew up on too many trashy Hollywood movies. Best way to learn English.

2) I believed that I could when I was younger, more naive and more idealist. Then the real world happens. Also, to understand "Pakistani culture" as a whole, just look at the scale of it all; we're a country a quarter the size of Texas, yet we have more spoken languages than the whole of North America. These languages are tied to cultures older than time. These cultures are forced to repress over time, breeding ethnic conflict. That makes you think about what made them come together in the first place. I tell you what; Islam, and we lost that to sectarian strife. What am I supposed to promote now?

3) Too the best of my knowledge, Pakistan has never been under shariah law. The reasons Pakistan "failed" are far too many and dependent upon a lot of factors.

[BigJonno]

Something like 30% of my students are Pakistani, so this stuff has a major impact on my working life. They're only kids, but they have relatives in Pakistan and they do worry. One of the kids went to Pakistan a few months back and ended up being away for a couple of weeks longer than he was supposed to due to some kind of problem.

[H.Bogard]

Something like 30% of my students are Pakistani, so this stuff has a major impact on my working life. They're only kids, but they have relatives in Pakistan and they do worry. One of the kids went to Pakistan a few months back and ended up being away for a couple of weeks longer than he was supposed to due to some kind of problem.

Actually... that's culture right there. :D

We do love our holidays.

[muddi900]

Something like 30% of my students are Pakistani, so this stuff has a major impact on my working life. They're only kids, but they have relatives in Pakistan and they do worry. One of the kids went to Pakistan a few months back and ended up being away for a couple of weeks longer than he was supposed to due to some kind of problem.

It's probably visa issues. If to have that green passport, you're bound to be treated like shit. Anywhere in the world. It was like this even before 9/11. First hand experience here.

[Urizen]

It's probably visa issues. If to have that green passport, you're bound to be treated like shit. Anywhere in the world. It was like this even before 9/11. First hand experience here.

Well, making a passport (something meant to be global and international in every sense of the word....and accessible to as many people as possible) and not conforming to opening from the right to the left is a fairly retarded decision, especially when you've got English print inside.

That, and the fact that I imagine immigration officers all over the world probably knew what the passports said about India and Israel as recently as 15 years ago didn't help. I switched to a Jamaican passport at the time and am not exactly sure where they stand on that front now.

[Johan]

I switched to a Jamaican passport

They should totally make those out of hemp. Seriously. When it expires, you could....you know. :D

[National Kato]

They should totally make those out of hemp. Seriously. When it expires, you could....you know. :D

You don't smoke hemp.

[Johan]

You don't smoke hemp.

Well, I do actually know that. I was trying, and failing, to be humorous. :o

I've posted before, on the topic, as to how valuable hemp would be, but it competes with cotton, and we can't have that, now can we! :eek:

And, now I've derailed my own thread. Fail.

[Lithium Flower]

Cannabis shrubs grow wild outside my home and there's a whole field of it a couple of blocks away AND its still illegal to grow and possess!

[National Kato]

Cannabis shrubs grow wild outside my home...

And here I just bought a house in Florida. What's your zipcode again? ;)

[muddi900]

Cannabis shrubs grow wild outside my home and there's a whole field of it a couple of blocks away AND its still illegal to grow and possess!

Pfft. Who smokes that shit? Give me some hash!

[mister slim]

Pfft. Who smokes that shit? Give me some hash!

Mmm... unprocessed hash...

[H.Bogard]

Obligatory:

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m255/HarryBogard/funny-pictures-cannabis-legalized-i.jpg

[Urizen]

Obligatory:

To think, all this love just because I said I'm Jamaican.

[GAThrawn]

To think, all this love just because I said I'm Jamaican.

Well, Jamaica's a great place - you should check it out one day.

[muddi900]

Mmm... unprocessed hash...

Well it's mixed with cigarette tobbaco.