Iron Man Not Crawling into the Bottle Just Yet

[Iron Past]

Speculation had been that Iron Man 2 would deal with the Demon in a Bottle storyline (Stark's descent into and subsequent recovery from alcoholism for those not in the know), especially after Sam Rockwell was confirmed as Justin Hammer (the man who takes over Stark Industries and pushes Tony over the edge). Not so, sayeth Tony Stark himself (http://www.collider.com/entertainment/news/article.asp/aid/11475/tcid/1):

I think [Demon in a Bottle is] probably best saved, because it’s such its own storyline,” Downey told MTV. “We’re going for the interim space [between the origin and Demon], which is more a look behind the mask of someone who says he’s Iron Man and what it really is to become a superhero.

***

Essentially Iron Man 2 is about looking behind the armor, or the armature, of a superhero. It’s one thing to say you’re Iron Man, it’s another thing to be fully ready to do that.

So, Iron Man 2 will feature a more original storyline. Personally, I'm glad this is happening; I've felt that the darker story of Demon in a Bottle was far too soon for this franchise, and would be a rather large separation from the first film. However, the fact that Justin Hammer is indeed in the film could swing the eventual sequel in that direction, or maybe be one of the wrenches in the gears for the Avengers movie (Jon Favreau is still the favorite to direct). I think it would also draw unintended comparisons to The Dark Knight, or any of the numerous upcoming 'dark' comic book adaptions. Your thoughts?

[muddi900]

I hope they make another kick ass movie, since I'm not at all familiar with Iron Man mythos.

[Deadend]

All of my favorite Iron Man stories are more recent, like Exterminis and the return of the Mandarin. I can't really recall many classic Iron Man stories aside from the Drinking one. Also, all of my favorite stories of his, Iron Man being one of the old hats and in charge of things beyond Stark MATTER to the story.

If I heard that Matt Fraction was involved with making the story for the movie, I'd sit back and relax, that guy GETS Iron Man.

[Savok]

Spider-manchild 2 suffered because of going too fast into whole "personal crisis" bullshit.

First film was "I'm Spider-man!" and second "I hate being Spider-man, I'm going to whine for 2/3 of the whole film about it", then he fights Doc Ock and it's awesome so you kinda forgive that wasted hour or so of your life. Obviously we never should have forgiven it because then we got 3.... I'm getting off point.

I'm glad they're not rushing into the alcoholism, take the time to flesh him out before you knock him down.

[Inspector Fowler]

The other thing is that to really deal with alcoholism takes more than a movie. I have trouble envisioning a superhero flick that satisfies on that plane while also depicting the pain and loss that addiction brings. It either ends super badly or has a cheesy after school special ending that cheats the viewer.

[Wolvie]

I think Hollywood learned a lesson from Spider-Man 2 & 3. And that lesson isn't going into the dark depressing shit too soon. And most certainly don't overload audiences with it.

A certain amount of a dark part of a movie is fine. But it has to be done right, and there should be a rebound to bring the audience out of it with the hero. In other words, Spidey 2 did it right by giving audience hope.
Spidey 3 just swamped the audience in emo depression and made us feel like Spidey's life sucks and it bummed us out.

Yeah, my point is, they should most certainly not do that with Iron man. Doing alcoholism is fine. But don't drown us in his sorrows.

[muddi900]

You people can suck it. Spider-man 2 was awesome.

Not going into dark and depressing shit? Have you sen Dark Knight?

[Wolvie]

You people can suck it. Spider-man 2 was awesome.

Not going into dark and depressing shit? Have you sen Dark Knight?

Yes but the Batman is supposed to be depressed, darkness is his theme. And he saw his parents get killed as a kid.
Spidey did lose his uncle, but it shaped him into the hero he was, and he was more positive about it. Spidey was a more uplifting hero, a happy go lucky kind of super hero. This is truly a comparing apples to oranges situation.

[MalReynolds]

I just want Iron Man 2 now

[muddi900]

Yes but the Batman is supposed to be depressed, darkness is his theme. And he saw his parents get killed as a kid.
Spidey did lose his uncle, but it shaped him into the hero he was, and he was more positive about it. Spidey was a more uplifting hero, a happy go lucky kind of super hero. This is truly a comparing apples to oranges situation.

The whole appeal of Spidey from the start is that he's under-appreciated. He's the everyman, the unsung hero. Well, unsung heroes get pissed when nobody sings about them, EVER. They say "fuck it, I'll go somewhere I'm appreciated."
The movie defined that. He DID hate being Spider-Man for a while. Also, there are no other interesting Spidey stories. If it wasn't "I hate being Spider-man", It would've been "I'm still Spider-man, yay" or the clone saga.

Also, I wasn't comparing the characters, I was just replying to what you said about hollywood learning stuff. Dark Knight was the 2nd highest grossing movie of all time. How does that teach Hollywood not to get into the dark depressing shit?

[Wolvie]

The whole appeal of Spidey from the start is that he's under-appreciated. He's the everyman, the unsung hero. Well, unsung heroes get pissed when nobody sings about them, EVER. They say "fuck it, I'll go somewhere I'm appreciated."
The movie defined that. He DID hate being Spider-Man for a while. Also, there are no other interesting Spidey stories. If it wasn't "I hate being Spider-man", It would've been "I'm still Spider-man, yay" or the clone saga.

Also, I wasn't comparing the characters, I was just replying to what you said about hollywood learning stuff. Dark Knight was the 2nd highest grossing movie of all time. How does that teach Hollywood not to get into the dark depressing shit?

I was saying Hollywood learned a lesson from Spidey by not making a usually upbeat character too dark. Iron Man had his dark past, but I think the studio is a bit gun shy from doing something too dark and having it bog down the story too much like it did with Spider-man 3.

Also, the Iron man alcoholism story was just part of his past, not the sum of his character. And I think they didn't want to have that story dominate a whole film and have main streamers think Tony Stark is nothing but a drunk womanizer with a bad heart.

I think the alcoholism story could work as a side story, like making a few scenes where other characters catching him hitting the bottle during a time when he's dealing with something tough.

Anyways, I bet the third film will have that story arc worked in. It'd work well as a side plot.

[Savok]

Spidey 3 just swamped the audience in emo depression and made us feel like Spidey's life sucks and it bummed us out.
That's the thing, his life didn't suck at that point, he was just a horrible person and so was MJ. They spend the film being despicable to each other and everyone around them. I was hoping Harry would just kill them both to be honest.

Batman... when isn't Batman dark? He spends his life on the edge of a nervous breakdown. You could even argue he's been having a nervous breakdown since he was 8.

[muddi900]

That's the thing, his life didn't suck at that point, he was just a horrible person and so was MJ. They spend the film being despicable to each other and everyone around them. I was hoping Harry would just kill them both to be honest.

Batman... when isn't Batman dark?

when he's pink!

http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo299/muddi900/112219_20071211124813_large.jpg

[Savok]

Silver Age doesn't count :p

[Superman's Dead]

That's the thing, his life didn't suck at that point, he was just a horrible person and so was MJ. They spend the film being despicable to each other and everyone around them. I was hoping Harry would just kill them both to be honest.

Batman... when isn't Batman dark? He spends his life on the edge of a nervous breakdown. You could even argue he's been having a nervous breakdown since he was 8.

YES. Spider-Man 3 was the movie when everyone cheered for Venom. Topher Grace walked into that movie THE VILLAIN and out Spidey-d Spidey.

[DoctorFinger]

Spider-Man, or more precisely Peter Parker, is defined by how much his life sucks and crushing guilt. Spider-Man 2 is in a lot of ways the quintessential Spidey story: he worries that his actions may have hurt someone, or made a villain. His super-life is interfering with his normal life. But in the end he sucks it up and does the right thing, even if his personal life suffers because of it.

[TheFlyingOrc]

YES. Spider-Man 3 was the movie when everyone cheered for Venom. Topher Grace walked into that movie THE VILLAIN and out Spidey-d Spidey.

I'm of the opinion that the problem with Spider-man 3 is that, as he said, Sam Raimi hates Venom.

[Superman's Dead]

I'm of the opinion that the problem with Spider-man 3 is that, as he said, Sam Raimi hates Venom.

Maybe...but that doesn't explain away Toby's complete inability to make a joke. Humor is central to the Spider-Man character, he makes jokes about how many jokes he makes! And you have voice actors for his videogames being better than the star of the film. The latest notwithstanding.

[Savok]

Spider-Man, or more precisely Peter Parker, is defined by how much his life sucks and crushing guilt. Spider-Man 2 is in a lot of ways the quintessential Spidey story: he worries that his actions may have hurt someone, or made a villain. His super-life is interfering with his normal life. But in the end he sucks it up and does the right thing, even if his personal life suffers because of it.
Well yes but every damn writer (except Bendis on Ultimate oddly) under the sun seems to make the mistake that means he should sit there and whine and bitch and moan until the bad guy just gives up rather then listening to another minute of Peter's crap.

Why MJ is so damn important, when Peter reaches a certain point in his whine cycle she kicks him in the fucking balls and reminds him he's a god damn superhero with a hot wife he gets to bang every night he's not buried alive by crazy fucking hunters.

Oh that's right, Joe Q decided that should be taken away so he has more whining time, silly me.

[muddi900]

Oh that's right, Joe Q decided that should be taken away so he has more whining time, silly me.

Speaking of whining...

[muddi900]

BTW, Iron Man 2 started shooting today.

[National Kato]

This thread is eponysterical.

[muddi900]

This thread is eponysterical.

That is not a word.

[National Kato]

That is not a word.

No? (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=eponysterical)

Maybe? (http://scarabic.net/eponysterical.html)

Seriously, this is an internet forum full of memes and newly-created terminology. I'm not the first to use this word, not by a long shot, and new words are created every day by the people who say them. Blame MetaFilter. :)

[Xerxes]

http://i39.tinypic.com/25fpw09.jpg

He's crawling into two suits.