The Presidential Debates - Round Two [Archive]

fitbabits

10-07-2008, 08:52 AM

Senators John McCain and Barack Obama will debate this evening for the second time in less than 10 hours.

What are your hopes for the debate?

What does Obama need to say to win you over?

What does McCain need to say to win you over?

Keep any discussion here civil, keep it clean, and keep it respectable.

Suave Peanut

10-07-2008, 08:53 AM

As long as they actually answer the questions that they are asked, I will be pleased.

quidmonkey

10-07-2008, 08:56 AM

I would like to see both strip naked, dance the Macarena and talk about the finer points of Guacamole.

Doctor Setebos

10-07-2008, 08:56 AM

This isn't a "debate" at all. There will be pre-approved questions from the audience, directed at each candidate individually, with no opportunity for follow-up questions. The moderator isn't allowed follow-up questions. And even the candidates are not allowed to question each other directly. It's an absurd set of rules that will turn this "debate" into just a collection of stump speeches that all exist independently, within their individual silos of thought and rationality.

In short: meh.

National Kato

10-07-2008, 08:59 AM

This isn't a "debate" at all. There will be pre-approved questions from the audience, directed at each candidate individually, with no opportunity for follow-up questions. The moderator isn't allowed follow-up questions. And even the candidates are not allowed to question each other directly.

Is this the format McCain wanted to do with Obama across the country? Or is this a bastardization of that plan?

quidmonkey

10-07-2008, 09:03 AM

Is this the format McCain wanted to do with Obama across the country? Or is this a bastardization of that plan?

This is the three-ring circus, the political side-show the presidential race has become as our economy tumbles, Iraq drags on and we make more and more enemies worldwide.

Commissar Rob

10-07-2008, 09:05 AM

My hopes? Steel cage. Two men enter. One man leaves.

Honestly what I really want to see can't happen in a debate format...two minute sound bites don't make for a decent comparison of how either man would govern. Which leaves you with either looking a their past (long and short term views are instructive) or blindly voting the platform you believe either party supports...

Democracy is FUN!

National Kato

10-07-2008, 09:06 AM

This is the three-ring circus, the political side-show the presidential race has become as our economy tumbles, Iraq drags on and we make more and more enemies worldwide.

I was referring more to the 'Town Hall' style format McCain was championing. But I feel your pain. :p

TheEpicOfTyler

10-07-2008, 09:07 AM

I want to see an actual debate. Not questions where both men provide their answers. I want to seem them rip into each other.

Johan

10-07-2008, 10:47 AM

What are your hopes for the debate?[/I]

I was hoping it wasn't on every broadcast channel, and my hopes were dashed. I won't be watching. It's degenerated into ridiculousness, in my mind. Who hasn't made up their mind by now, anyways?

Oh, that's right. Tim, in PA. The one remaining undecided! :)

BlackPete

10-07-2008, 12:23 PM

5 mins in, McCain walks up behind Obama and tries to shiv him.

QueQueg

10-07-2008, 12:31 PM

I was hoping it wasn't on every broadcast channel, and my hopes were dashed. I won't be watching. It's degenerated into ridiculousness, in my mind. Who hasn't made up their mind by now, anyways?

Oh, that's right. Tim, in PA. The one remaining undecided! :)

QFT.

Luckily, they can't broadcast it into my game systems.

NoName

10-07-2008, 12:34 PM

There's a new Dirty Jobs on tonight. Debate? Bah, I'll catch the highlights on the Daily Show. :rolleyes:

That Darn Kat

10-07-2008, 12:38 PM

QFT.

Luckily, they can't broadcast it into my game systems.
Not yet, anyway.

And curse all you cable-having, (capable of) iron-chef-enjoying people. Sometimes, I really miss having some form of television to watch.

And if that format is really what is planned for the debate, I'm afraid it's going to be rather dull. Something more candid would be the best way to get a look at their true intentions and character.

Wraith

10-07-2008, 12:43 PM

There's a new Dirty Jobs on tonight. Debate? Bah, I'll catch the highlights on the Daily Show. :rolleyes:Oct 07, 4:00 pm

Dirty Jobs
Sewer Inspector
TV-14 (L), CC

Mike Rowe steps into the shoes of a sewer inspector in San Francisco, and enlists a disaster clean up crew after a Brooklyn toilet explodes from a sewer backup. He then joins up with a demolition company where he works as part of a deconstruction crew.Hmm.

Presidential election debates... dirty jobs... maybe not that different?

Widgetcraft

10-07-2008, 12:44 PM

Well, I'll probably be watching, even though I've already (obviously) made up my mind. I like to see these things for myself, as they are often misrepresented by the media, even moments after they have taken place.

Also, for those of you who don't want to watch, but don't have cable: South Park Studios (http://www.southparkstudios.com/).

Cyndair

10-07-2008, 12:47 PM

I was looking forward to the presidential debates but after the first one I came away feeling even more annoyed / frustrated with the candidates. When it amounts to them just spamming half truths at each other for 2 hours that you then have to go and verify to figure out who was actually making a valid point, well, it makes the whole thing very not worth it.

I'll still watch it but... yuck.

Sandman

10-07-2008, 12:52 PM

New ECW tonight at 9 on Sci-Fi....8 man tag main event looks good.

Food Nipple

10-07-2008, 01:00 PM

That Darn Kat

10-07-2008, 01:01 PM

For those that feel the debates are frustrating and somewhat useless, http://www.ontheissues.org/ seems to be a decent outlet for learning more about the candidates. Each candidate's section is organized by issue (economy, abortion, defense, etc) and lists their quotes, voting records and stances on every issue. I check it out when I don't feel like tearing through massive amounts of media spin.

Midrael

10-07-2008, 01:04 PM

I may flip this on as I'm interested in what the candidates have to say. I've already made up my mind on who to vote for though, so unless McCain mentions having a puppy omelette for breakfast or Obama says he has kitten lattes, I doubt much will change on that front.

Mmm kitten lattes.

Commissar Rob

10-07-2008, 01:09 PM

Johan

10-07-2008, 01:11 PM

The apathy in this thread is saddening.

I want to care, but I don't. I see little potential differentiation between them in future results, frankly. They talk differently on the "issues" but the results, in my mind, will be remarkably similar; gridlock in Washington, a continuing economic and foreign-policy crisis, and lots of pork and pandering to the wealthy and lobbyists.

The ship is sinking, but rather than the rats getting off the boat, they're loading taxpayer money into the luggage of the wealthy and powerful, taking the lifeboats themselves, and forcing the rest of us to go down to the murky depths.

Man, am I glad I'm not a typical American, and am free of debt. I could survive a 50% cut in my salary, and I wouldn't be surprised to see major cuts coming...

National Kato

10-07-2008, 01:14 PM

The ship is sinking, but rather than the rats getting off the boat, they're loading taxpayer money into the luggage of the wealthy and powerful, taking the lifeboats themselves, and forcing the rest of us to go down to the murky depths.

Yeah, but we get to have sex with Kate Winslet, right? Um, wait....

Johan

10-07-2008, 01:17 PM

Yeah, but we get to have sex with Kate Winslet, right? Um, wait....

I'd settle for just sketching her in person. :)

And by sketching, I mean fingerpainting body art!

I have impure thoughts sometimes, but I'm loyal to my wife!

QueQueg

10-07-2008, 01:22 PM

The apathy in this thread is saddening.

I don't care if you've already made up your mind (I certainly have), I still believe it's your duty to set aside four evenings to listen to what the candidates have to say. Record your wrestling programs, or if you absolutely have to watch Mike Rowe clean up shit tonight, record the debate and watch it when you don't have such pressing matters at hand.

I humbly disagree. Yes, my mind is made up. I'm going to vote early, October 16th to be exact, so I can get the thing done. Also, I've been going door-to-door for my candidate of choice, so I don't think it's a matter of apathy.

I just don't expect to learn anything about either candidate that I don't already know. If one of them has a major melt-down and exclaims something truly outrageous, I'll certainly hear about it the next day, either at the water cooler or on youtube.

Karmakin

10-07-2008, 01:23 PM

Well, I disagree on one point, I don't think the whole bailout thing is so much about funneling money into the lifeboats, I think they're still trying to bail out the Titanic, so to speak.

I think it'll be interesting, not so much from Obama's POV..he's Mr. Steady, to be honest, but from McCain's. He really has to come out and sell his domestic package.

Esquilax1138

10-07-2008, 01:29 PM

Food Nipple

10-07-2008, 01:36 PM

I liked the Canadian debates much more, 5 party leaders all sitting around a table going back and forth with each other in a very spirited manner. Standing at a podium and looking into cameras is not much of a debate, it's mini-speeches.

I'm shamefully ignorant about Canadian politics, but I've been trying to rectify that. I'm halfway through the latest debate, and the different format is pretty interesting. McCain has a hard enough time keeping his cool when it's just Obama debating him, I can't imagine what it's like to have four other parties all telling you why you're wrong and out of touch. I think Harper does an incredible job of keeping his cool, especially since Layton has no qualms about laying into him.

Kelegacy

10-07-2008, 01:49 PM

I'll be watching. I love this stuff.

TheEpicOfTyler

10-07-2008, 07:10 PM

McCain walks like a robot. Therefore I do not trust him.

astranoir

10-07-2008, 07:17 PM

McCain walks like a robot. Therefore I do not trust him.

It's because he's a cylon:
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/battlestargalactica/tigh.jpg

Karmakin

10-07-2008, 07:18 PM

I thought McCain did really well with the first question.

Since then?

Crash and burn. Guys. You lost the last two debates in the eyes of the people with your attacks. Stop attacking and saying what you'll do to fix things. That's what people want to hear.

Scaryfaced

10-07-2008, 07:23 PM

astranoir

10-07-2008, 07:27 PM

I don't know how i feel about that constant reaction ticker at the bottom of the screen. On the one hand, it seems that it's presence alone could sway a voters opinion about how they're reacting as opposed to how the test group if voting. On the other hand, I can't stop watching it.

I have this problem too (I can't stop watching it), but the reactions just seem useless. When they had it divided into parties for the first debate, it made a lot more sense to me, but on this one and the Vice Presidential debate, it's divided by gender, and it is mostly just boring to watch... but oh so distracting.

TheEpicOfTyler

10-07-2008, 07:31 PM

I'm watching on NBC with no ticker.

Spectre-7

10-07-2008, 07:38 PM

Wraith

10-07-2008, 07:39 PM

Try the feed on MSNBC.com, if you want it free of all the extra junk.

Scaryfaced

10-07-2008, 07:41 PM

I caught that on one of the debates. Made me want to pop open the console and do a little net_graph 0.

We need an FPS counter on this sucker, too. Cuz I sware the frame rates drop when McCain shuffles around the stage.

EDIT: I kinda like the extra junk. It's like having a ticker while you watch baseball. Only this ticker is completely pointless.
________
Soldering iron vaporizer review (http://vaporizer.org)

VerseD

10-07-2008, 09:23 PM

Just finished watching the debates. I watched it on CNN with the undecided voter reaction meter, which was fun and occasionally infuriating to watch.

I've already made up my mind this election, but I think the debates do serve an important purpose. There are a lot of independent or undecided voters out there, and a lot of people who normally would never have voted. This is an important election with all the problems the US is facing, and I think a chance to see the candidates and what they plan is what will get people to the polls.

These debates give candidates the chance to answer questions about their policy directly as well as a chance to show their presidential quality, which I thought greatly served Obama tonight.

Oh, and did anyone else think much about McCain calling Obama "that one"? I barely noticed it during the debate, since he's usually kind of condescending, but they were making a big deal about it in the after-action reports since it's one step away from "those people." In my view it's not an issue, but I'm sure some will get upset by it.

Typical Michael

10-07-2008, 09:33 PM

VerseD

10-07-2008, 09:52 PM

This whole thing really frustrated me. Jabbing at each other made them look like arguing children, and they both had problems answering the questions they were asked. And people wonder why a lot of us are apathetic.

That's just the nature of politics. If one man does it and the other refuses to play, he gets torn apart.

As a voter, you have to look past the bullshit and try and figure out what a politician actually proposes to do. Then you have to look at his record and figure out if his ability and ethics can be trusted to accomplish what he set out to do.

It's a big responsibility, and there are a lot of people out to make it really difficult for you, often including the silver-tongued candidates. I think that challenge is the source of political apathy.

Karmakin

10-07-2008, 10:02 PM

What Verse said. The problem is that everything naturally drops to the lowest common denominator, pretty fast. One person throws out attacks, the other has to respond or its seen that the attacks are true.

It's why debates are next to worthless. I'd rather read policy papers :)

Xerxes

10-07-2008, 10:03 PM

Oh, and did anyone else think much about McCain calling Obama "that one"? I barely noticed it during the debate, since he's usually kind of condescending, but they were making a big deal about it in the after-action reports since it's one step away from "those people." In my view it's not an issue, but I'm sure some will get upset by it.

That did sound a little funny to me. It was also funny watching him licking that military dudes ass. "I learned it all from a guy like you." :rolleyes:

QueQueg

10-07-2008, 10:03 PM

Oh, and did anyone else think much about McCain calling Obama "that one"? I barely noticed it during the debate, since he's usually kind of condescending, but they were making a big deal about it in the after-action reports since it's one step away from "those people." In my view it's not an issue, but I'm sure some will get upset by it.

Definitely noticed it. My wife and I both sat up at that remark. We were like... "that one!?!?!... the brown one?!?!?!"

Seriously, very poor choice of words.

Typical Michael

10-07-2008, 10:05 PM

Definitely noticed it. My wife and I both sat up at that remark. We were like... "that one!?!?!... the brown one?!?!?!"

Seriously, very poor choice of words.

McCain always seems really petty.

"Did we hear how much the fine was? Heeh Heeh".

Widgetcraft

10-07-2008, 10:13 PM

Watched the first thirty minutes, found them both to be laying out a bit too much BS, though they mostly answered the questions they were asked (mostly; both messed around a few times). A friend I haven't spoken to in years contacted me after that, and I ignored the debate after that.

Midrael

10-07-2008, 10:29 PM

Oh, and did anyone else think much about McCain calling Obama "that one"? I barely noticed it during the debate, since he's usually kind of condescending, but they were making a big deal about it in the after-action reports since it's one step away from "those people." In my view it's not an issue, but I'm sure some will get upset by it.

Overblown really, I'd imagine. I'd much rather people focus on the meat of the debate than that. If there really was any meat anyway. However, I'm not surprised that the campaign picked up on it immediately.

Lance Uppercut

10-07-2008, 10:29 PM

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/893/1223439572645rg6.jpg

QueQueg

10-07-2008, 10:31 PM

awesome pic

Awesome in every way.

Food Nipple

10-07-2008, 10:33 PM

A total waste of time. Both sides waste time repeating the same half-facts as last time, at least come up with some new talking points. I have heard enough about meeting with/without preconditions, whether or not you're cutting taxes on small businesses, and who opposed what bill and what unrelated rider got attached at the last second that made you "vote against the troops."

Repeating the same half-truths only severs to highlight how much you're twisting your opponent's words, and how both sides are more concerned with twisting each other's meaning rather than engaging in any kind of substantive debate.

Slack3r78

10-07-2008, 10:48 PM

At this point, barring any major disaster in the next 3 weeks, this campaign is over.

Andrew Sullivan has a good rundown of post debate commentary here:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/debate-reax-1.html

BlackPete

10-08-2008, 02:02 AM

I heard "That one" and I really didn't think much about it. I still don't, and it's really just a tempest in a teapot IMO. There's bigger and more outrageous things to focus on.

There was one comment that kinda came from nowhere that surprised me: McCain made a comment on how some of the $700 billion bailout (???) was going to terrorist organizations. Wait, what, did I miss something? I even paused and rewound that part on my DVR but there didn't seem to be any explanation to put it into context?

BlackPete

10-08-2008, 02:06 AM

As for the debate itself... I found it or or less even, with Obama winning some points, and McCain winning some points.

McCain needed a knockout punch but didn't land one, so the polls will probably remain in Obama's favour.

Iron Past

10-08-2008, 04:58 AM

It was also funny watching him licking that military dudes ass. "I learned it all from a guy like you." :rolleyes:

That's actually very true, though; the rank at that point in the military, and the role that Cheifs play, is very influential for up-and-coming leaders. I didn't think it was overdone, but maybe I just relate more. I also think the "that one" comment will be taken wildly out of context, it was an emotional slip, and I'm 100% possitive he didn't mean it to mean "black." That's not how media stations will be playing it, I'm sure.

Anyway, I was unaware that you could give the exact same answer to every question! In fact, the exact same answers you gave two weks ago! Whatever, I made up my mind after the first debate. Also, McCain looks like a marionette with that weird arm thing. :p

QueQueg

10-08-2008, 06:56 AM

Also, McCain looks like a marionette with that weird arm thing. :p

He just didn't look... well. In the post-analysis someone referred to his war injuries, I guess that's what it was.

He just didn't look... healthy.

Typical Michael

10-08-2008, 07:01 AM

I really try not to rag on McCain. When I start watching a debate its like watching a sports game against two teams I really don't care about. But I think McCain just made too many petty jabs for me to take him seriously. Didnt really care how he looked, I think debates should only be on the radio.

QueQueg

10-08-2008, 07:04 AM

Slack3r78

10-08-2008, 07:06 AM

He just didn't look... well. In the post-analysis someone referred to his war injuries, I guess that's what it was.

He just didn't look... healthy.
There's been a fair amount of commentary about the irony of the one that was pushing so hard for the town hall style forums, when it turns out they favor Obama.

Zero

10-08-2008, 07:14 AM

Oh, and did anyone else think much about McCain calling Obama "that one"? I barely noticed it during the debate, since he's usually kind of condescending, but they were making a big deal about it in the after-action reports since it's one step away from "those people." In my view it's not an issue, but I'm sure some will get upset by it.

My co-worker and I immediately perked up when we heard this statement. I looked at him and said "What do you mean you people?

National Kato

10-08-2008, 07:50 AM

McCain better watch out for the left.

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/3108/mccainobamapunchql1.jpg

Typical Michael

10-08-2008, 07:51 AM

Its a good thing I didnt see that picture during class. I'da lost my shit.

QueQueg

10-08-2008, 08:08 AM

That's a great move. He's disabling McCain's strong arm, and pummeling him mercilessly in the face, in an effort to break through the man's chitinous shell.

TheEpicOfTyler

10-08-2008, 09:16 AM

I was hoping for a Don Zimmer-Pedro Martinez moment during the debate last night to be honest.

http://graphics.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2004/11/17/1100706901_5904.jpg

VerseD

10-08-2008, 01:58 PM

My co-worker and I immediately perked up when we heard this statement. I looked at him and said "What do you mean you people?

The thing that caught me was when McCain answered the very first question. A black guy was asking about the economy, and McCain said something like, "It all started with Freddie Mae and Fannie Mae (sic). You've probably never heard of them."

What an asshole, and not even because the guy was black. He could have been a fucking economics professor. I don't get why McCain has to talk down to everyone when he's explaining things, including Obama.

McCain better watch out for the left.

Apparently McCain didn't shake Obama's hand after the debate was over. Out of fear?

Zero

10-08-2008, 02:49 PM

The thing that caught me was when McCain answered the very first question. A black guy was asking about the economy, and McCain said something like, "It all started with Freddie Mae and Fannie Mae (sic). You've probably never heard of them."

What an asshole, and not even because the guy was black. He could have been a fucking economics professor. I don't get why McCain has to talk down to everyone when he's explaining things, including Obama.

Apparently McCain didn't shake Obama's hand after the debate was over. Out of fear?

Well, McCain bolted immediately. He was outta the building and gone within minutes. Obama stayed for almost half an hour afterwards meeting and greeting on the debate floor.

QueQueg

10-08-2008, 03:02 PM

Obama stayed for almost half an hour afterwards meeting and greeting on the debate floor.

I think that speaks volumes about the two men. Obama took the time to sign autographs, have pictures taken, and generally ingratiate himself with everyone that was there. McCain apparently had something more important to do.

VerseD

10-08-2008, 08:15 PM

I think that speaks volumes about the two men. Obama took the time to sign autographs, have pictures taken, and generally ingratiate himself with everyone that was there. McCain apparently had something more important to do.

Let's be fair: He probably had to go to Washington to negotiate a bill that will save us all.

Deadend

10-08-2008, 11:25 PM

McCain came off as a bitter angry old man who was condescending and treated everyone like a special 10 year old.

Obama seemed much more like the kind of person to be the face of a new direction for America.

I loved how McCain did his hissyfit whining about how Obama answered the question about Bin Laden in Pakistan... how the hell else is the guy supposed to answer it?

McCain just... ugh.

Hotcod

10-09-2008, 02:05 AM

from what little i've seen, mccain came across as an surprisingly angry bitter old man. you know the kind, confused about if there are kids on his lawn but shouting at them anyway while holding a shot gun... some of what he said makes it clear he thinks Obama is a idiot, he just has no respect for him or his ideas and seems to get angry obama doesn't agree with him.... it was honestly remarkable, i've never seen such open hostility before...

Simple fact, obama has the makes of a true statesman that has a chance of making the rest of the world like you again... mccain is a bitter old man who dose don't.... if you don't pick obama the world is going to face palm