Nvidia Boosts Graphics Support For Millions Of Windows 7 Beta Users [Archive]

violent

03-02-2009, 09:23 PM

New GeForce Graphics Drivers for Windows 7 Beta Now Available Directly from NVIDIA.com

SANTA CLARA, CA—MARCH 2, 2009—NVIDIA today announced the immediate availability of new graphics drivers from www.nvidia.com for NVIDIA® GeForce® GPU owners running the new Windows 7 Beta. Today’s availability represents the start of regular NVIDIA driver updates for the forthcoming operating system from Microsoft. Windows 7 will be the first Windows operating system to fully integrate and take advantage of the GPU for both graphics and parallel computing.

“Since its release last month, the Windows 7 Beta has been eagerly tested by hundreds of thousands of NVIDIA GeForce owners, who are excited about the many graphical improvements Microsoft has added into the upcoming operating system,” said Ujesh Desai, vice president of GeForce desktop business at NVIDIA.

GeForce version 181.71 graphics drivers, released today on NVIDIA.com, support the new Windows Display Driver Model (WDDM) v1.1 from Microsoft. Powered by NVIDIA DirectX 10 GPUs, WDDM v1.1 drivers provide an optimal visual experience in Windows 7. These drivers offer increased performance and reliability in both 2D and 3D applications, including the 3D Windows Aero desktop.

“We expect that all of our hard work teaming with Microsoft over the past two years will pay off for GeForce GPU owners when Windows 7 officially launches,” said Dwight Diercks, vice president of software engineering at NVIDIA. “Our customers are demanding an experience that is faster and more visual, and with the addition of many new GPU-accelerated features, including DirectX Compute, we believe Windows 7 will be well positioned to meet those needs.”

To download the new Windows 7 Beta drivers for NVIDIA GPUs, please visit: http://www.nvidia.com/object/windows_7.html

bapenguin

03-03-2009, 05:48 AM

I'm so glad you don't have to reboot anymore to install drivers on Win7. So awesome.

squirrelTactics

03-03-2009, 07:03 AM

I'm so glad you don't have to reboot anymore to install drivers on Win7. So awesome.

O rly? This could be the tipping point that causes me to bite the bullet and install the beta...

GigaFuzz

03-03-2009, 07:23 AM

The nVidia installer asked me to reboot my computer, but when I first installed Windows 7 and downloaded the driver through Windows Update, it installed it without a restart. I was impressed. Of course, Linux was there years ago :p

Ancalagon

03-03-2009, 07:31 AM

I'm so glad you don't have to reboot anymore to install drivers on Win7. So awesome.

I read the Wikipedia entry on 7, out of curiousity, and found that it contains an abomination, an evil menace, an affront to all that is good an holy. I present a quote:

Removed features

While Windows 7 contains many new features, a number of capabilities and certain programs that were a part of Windows Vista are no longer present or have changed, resulting in the removal of certain functionality. The following is a list of features that were present in Windows Vista but have been removed in Windows 7.

* Several shell features[40] including:
o Classic Start menu user interface
o Floating Deskbands (was deprecated in Windows Vista, now deskband can be only pinned to taskbar)
o Windows Media Player Mini-player (replaced with the new Jump list feature)
o Pinning default Internet Browser and E-mail client software programs on Start menu by default (programs can be manually pinned)
o The ability to disable grouping (placing next to each other) similar taskbar buttons

Yes, the evil engineers of Microsoft have removed my most used feature in any windows version since XP come out - the ability to stop that damn annoying window grouping feature. So I want multiple windows of the same type, let me switch between them using one click rather than two! Bloody bastards.

Seriously, this is so bad its almost enough to make me keep using Vista.

total

03-03-2009, 07:34 AM

Of course, Linux was there years ago :p

Zuh? At the CLI maybe but not in X. You still need to restart X to change drivers. Hell most distros just started using HAL in place of xorg. Unless I am completely off base? Am I? Is this in jest? Am I drunk?

total

03-03-2009, 07:36 AM

I read the Wikipedia entry on 7, out of curiousity, and found that it contains an abomination, an evil menace, an affront to all that is good an holy. I present a quote:

Yes, the evil engineers of Microsoft have removed my most used feature in any windows version since XP come out - the ability to stop that damn annoying window grouping feature. So I want multiple windows of the same type, let me switch between them using one click rather than two! Bloody bastards.

Seriously, this is so bad its almost enough to make me keep using Vista.

You can still get to them with one click. You hover over the program in the new task bar and it will show you multiple screenshots of the application if there are multiple instances. I'm with you, I absolutely hate grouping...but honestly what they have in 7 in pretty damn nice.

Ancalagon

03-03-2009, 08:06 AM

You can still get to them with one click. You hover over the program in the new task bar and it will show you multiple screenshots of the application if there are multiple instances. I'm with you, I absolutely hate grouping...but honestly what they have in 7 in pretty damn nice.

Sigh, but why not let me just ungroup them? I still have to hover, thats like 1 second slower than just clicking? Change for the sake of change is pointless.

total

03-03-2009, 08:12 AM

Sigh, but why not let me just ungroup them? I still have to hover, thats like 1 second slower than just clicking? Change for the sake of change is pointless.

Have you tried it out yet? I didn't think I would like it but I think it is actually quite nice. Honestly the way the new task bar is set up I don't think ungrouping would be wise. You would end up with a lot of icon clutter sitting at the bottom of your screen.

Goronmon

03-03-2009, 08:20 AM

Sigh, but why not let me just ungroup them? I still have to hover, thats like 1 second slower than just clicking? Change for the sake of change is pointless.Maybe they have some user interface goals that they are aiming for that options like ungrouping would cause issues with?

GigaFuzz

03-03-2009, 08:21 AM

Zuh? At the CLI maybe but not in X. You still need to restart X to change drivers. Hell most distros just started using HAL in place of xorg. Unless I am completely off base? Am I? Is this in jest? Am I drunk?

Sure, you're restarting X, but it's a heck of a lot quicker than rebooting the whole machine.

Hopefully this also means that there'll be a lot less rebooting going on in general.

total

03-03-2009, 08:33 AM

Sure, you're restarting X, but it's a heck of a lot quicker than rebooting the whole machine.

Hopefully this also means that there'll be a lot less rebooting going on in general.

I suppose but I just end up doing a system reboot anyway. I mean it is 30 seconds versus 45 seconds. Most of the time I install new drivers in Ubuntu I am installing a new kernel to go with them so I am going to have to reboot anyway. But yeah, I suppose you are right to an extent.

Slack3r78

03-03-2009, 09:16 AM

Sigh, but why not let me just ungroup them? I still have to hover, thats like 1 second slower than just clicking? Change for the sake of change is pointless.
Microsoft is finally moving Windows from being window-centric to being app-centric. This is a very, very good thing in the long run. 7's not 100% there yet (they need something akin to OS X's CMD-`), but it's a HUGE improvement over traditional window management in Windows.

And this is somebody who hated taskbar grouping in XP/Vista.

Seriously, the new taskbar is completely different from what you're used to and it is awesome.

BlackPete

03-03-2009, 01:47 PM

I'm so glad you don't have to reboot anymore to install drivers on Win7. So awesome.

I'm running the Win7 beta and I was recently prompted to reboot because of an Adobe Reader update.

Yeah... I don't know why either.

total

03-03-2009, 03:25 PM

Seriously, the new taskbar is completely different from what you're used to and it is awesome.

I agree, it is pretty damn awesome. If you haven't tried it give it a shot before you decide you dislike it.

JayVe

03-03-2009, 03:32 PM

I'm running the Win7 beta and I was recently prompted to reboot because of an Adobe Reader update.

That's because Adobe writes the shittiest code in the known universe. Each version is more bloated, resource-intensive, and slower than the previous. I recently made the move away from PhotoShop to Corel PhotoPaint and can't express how happy I am. I uninstalled every Adobe product, and found an alternative.

total

03-03-2009, 03:42 PM

JayVe

03-03-2009, 03:51 PM

Yeah Adobe has been turning out shit products for years. Nothing new there.

I can't believe how much happier I am without Adobe products on my machine. Did you know even the lowly Acrobat Reader runs all kinds of bullshit AT SYSTEM STARTUP? Just in case you happen to open a PDF, it will help Acrobat Reader launch faster. Yet that means I have to wait longer for my system to boot, and have memory/processor occupied in the off-chance that I'll open a PDF today.

Fuck that!

BlackPete

03-03-2009, 03:57 PM

I can't believe how much happier I am without Adobe products on my machine. Did you know even the lowly Acrobat Reader runs all kinds of bullshit AT SYSTEM STARTUP? Just in case you happen to open a PDF, it will help Acrobat Reader launch faster. Yet that means I have to wait longer for my system to boot, and have memory/processor occupied in the off-chance that I'll open a PDF today.

Fuck that!

Out of curiousity, what do you use to open a PDF nowadays? I'm always looking for an alternative.

Come to think of it... I don't remember actually installing Adobe Reader when I installed Win 7. :confused:

I should uninstall that, STAT!

H.Bogard

03-03-2009, 03:58 PM

Out of curiousity, what do you use to open a PDF nowadays? I'm always looking for an alternative.

Come to think of it... I don't remember actually installing Adobe Reader when I installed Win 7. :confused:

I should uninstall that, STAT!

Try Foxit Reader LITE.

I need a Photoshop alternative too. Not much into drawing as much as manipulating. Any suggestions?

Oh, and fuck grouped windows!

Wraith

03-03-2009, 03:59 PM

I recently made the move away from PhotoShop to Corel PhotoPaint and can't express how happy I am.What version of PHOTO-PAINT / DRAW Suite are you using?

Slack3r78

03-03-2009, 04:02 PM

JayVe

03-03-2009, 04:05 PM

What version of PHOTO-PAINT / DRAW Suite are you using?

I'm using Foxit Reader instead of Acrobat Reader. Damn, can't believe how FAST it is!

For graphics I'm using the Corel X3 suite. It took getting used to at first, but now that I'm familiar with it, I'm faster with it than I was in PhotoShop. The interface is much easier to learn for newbies, but it is always difficult to un-learn PhotoShop. PhotoPaint allows you to re-map any key command, or create your own button bars (even make your own drop-down menus!). As such, there is a whole PhotoShop set of key commands and toolbars, making the transition easier.

Edit: Gotta say I was REALLY impressed with Corel Draw. I'm upset I didn't bail on Illustrator a long time ago.

torrefaction

03-03-2009, 04:05 PM

Try Foxit Reader LITE.

I need a Photoshop alternative too. Not much into drawing as much as manipulating. Any suggestions?

Oh, and fuck grouped windows!

The Gimp
http://www.gimp.org/

Paint.net
http://www.getpaint.net/

And Slack3r and I have discussed how wrong he is about AIR.

Wraith

03-03-2009, 04:15 PM

For graphics I'm using the Corel X3 suite. It took getting used to at first, but now that I'm familiar with it, I'm faster with it than I was in PhotoShop. The interface is much easier to learn for newbies, but it is always difficult to un-learn PhotoShop. PhotoPaint allows you to re-map any key command, or create your own button bars (even make your own drop-down menus!). As such, there is a whole PhotoShop set of key commands and toolbars, making the transition easier.

Edit: Gotta say I was REALLY impressed with Corel Draw. I'm upset I didn't bail on Illustrator a long time ago.I've been using PHOTO-PAINT and (to a lesser extent) DRAW for quite a while, but I'm still using version 10, while the most recent is X4 (14). Nice to hear positive experiences from someone moving from Photoshop/Illustrator to DRAW suite. I'll probably end up upgrading one of these days...

MagGnome

03-03-2009, 04:15 PM

That's because Adobe writes the shittiest code in the known universe. Each version is more bloated, resource-intensive, and slower than the previous. I recently made the move away from PhotoShop to Corel PhotoPaint and can't express how happy I am. I uninstalled every Adobe product, and found an alternative.

Don't forget Creative. I think they edge out Adobe for shitty code.

What is this "grouping" that you guys are talking about? Is that the term for what happens when you have several Firefox windows open, for example, and they all move into one list at the bottom of the screen?

JayVe

03-03-2009, 04:17 PM

What is this "grouping" that you guys are talking about? Is that the term for what happens when you have several Firefox windows open, for example, and they all move into one list at the bottom of the screen?

Yep

*shudder*

I turn off grouping as one of the first things I do when I set up a new machine. Ugh.

I have a big problem with separating a user from their destination. When a user moves to the bottom of the screen, their eyes get there before their mouse. They are looking for what they want to click on. If you 'hide' what they are going to click on under another menu, that's bad UI.

Most programs already allow multiple windows within a single shell. Browsers, for example, allow multiple pages to be open in a single instance of the program. Most programs work the same way. Even Microsoft Word USED to only have a single instance open, with multiple documents inside. That has since changed, so that every Word document you have open spawns a new slot on your taskbar... adding to the clutter and requiring the dreaded 'grouping'.

Wraith

03-03-2009, 04:19 PM

What is this "grouping" that you guys are talking about? Is that the term for what happens when you have several Firefox windows open, for example, and they all move into one list at the bottom of the screen?Exactly. Windows 7's taskbar is quite a bit different than Vista's (or XP's). You have an icon in the taskbar, much like OS X's dock, representing an app you're running. You can hover over the icon to see a preview of all the currently open windows for the app. Like this:

http://i39.tinypic.com/28gxxqh.png

In Vista and XP, you have separate buttons for each window, or you use grouping and click one button to get a list of all the open windows for an app. Like this:

http://www.macvswindows.com/images/thumb/4/47/vista_taskbar_group.png/500px-vista_taskbar_group.png

Slack3r78

03-03-2009, 04:29 PM

Exactly. Windows 7's taskbar is quite a bit different than Vista's (or XP's). You have an icon in the taskbar, much like OS X's dock, representing an app you're running. You can hover over the icon to see a preview of all the currently open windows for the app. Like this:

In Vista and XP, you have separate buttons for each window, or you use grouping and click one button to get a list of all the open windows for an app. Like this:
The other big thing you left out is that W7 allows you to pin apps to the taskbar, causing the icon to stay put even when the app is closed, much like the Dock in OS X. You can also (finally) arbitrarily drag and drop apps around the taskbar and put them in any order you'd like. This means, for example, that Firefox always sits directly next to my start menu, which means allows you to develop muscle memory as you get used to it.

Seriously, I have a hard time going back to XP/Vista since I've adjusted to this during daily use.

EDIT:

You'll also notice that the W7 taskbar gives you a subtle indication of how many windows a particular app has open. The system works really well, and I'm someone who's found similar window previews like in Vista or KDE completely worthless in the past.

total

03-03-2009, 04:31 PM

Thank you Wraith for posting screenshots before I could get home and do it (dick). I also use Foxit and the Gimp. Both are great alternatives to Acrobat and Photoshop respectively. I don't really do much in Gimp so the hardcore might not like it. I hear there is some plugin or what not to make it look exactly like Photoshop though. My buddy keeps pimping it to me like I would know what the difference is. I haven't used Photoshop since like...5.

Slack3r78

03-03-2009, 04:33 PM

The Gimp is a UI nightmare. I generally stick to Paint.NET on Windows when Photoshop's not available and I don't have to do any major editing.

MagGnome

03-03-2009, 04:34 PM

Yep

*shudder*

I turn off grouping as one of the first things I do when I set up a new machine. Ugh.

Isn't the mess that comes from turning grouping off even worse though? I can't imagine having all of those programs filling up the taskbar would make things any easier.

Thanks for the images Wraith! That Windows 7 taskbar looks pretty good, although I still prefer the Dock in OSX. Still, it appears to be a big improvement over the current taskbar in XP and Vista.

MagGnome

03-03-2009, 04:37 PM

Wraith

03-03-2009, 04:39 PM

The other big thing you left out is that W7 allows you to pin apps to the taskbar, causing the icon to stay put even when the app is closed, much like the Dock in OS X. You can also (finally) arbitrarily drag and drop apps around the taskbar and put them in any order you'd like. This means, for example, that Firefox always sits directly next to my start menu, which means allows you to develop muscle memory as you get used to it.

Seriously, I have a hard time going back to XP/Vista since I've adjusted to this during daily use.I still haven't figured out how I want to have my 7 taskbar set up. In XP, I have QuickLaunch (or a custom toolbar) with small icons/no text for all my frequently used apps. In 7, the taskbar and its icons are a lot bigger. And I like the big taskbar for running apps, but not sure if I want to clutter it up with a slew of app icons. I've added Firefox, as I use it every day, but that's it. There is a small icons setting, but not sure how I like that yet...Thank you Wraith for posting screenshots before I could get home and do it (dick).I do what I can.

Slack3r78

03-03-2009, 05:00 PM

I still haven't figured out how I want to have my 7 taskbar set up. In XP, I have QuickLaunch (or a custom toolbar) with small icons/no text for all my frequently used apps. In 7, the taskbar and its icons are a lot bigger. And I like the big taskbar for running apps, but not sure if I want to clutter it up with a slew of app icons. I've added Firefox, as I use it every day, but that's it. There is a small icons setting, but not sure how I like that yet...I do what I can.
http://www.thescoundrelcollective.com/slacker/w7taskbar.jpg
This stuff I keep pinned, everything else is Win+[type its name + enter] and gets arranged arbitrarily. Filezilla spends a lot of time at the right edge there.

Really, I've not had clutter become an issue and I'm using this on a 1024x600 netbook.

JayVe

03-03-2009, 05:00 PM

Isn't the mess that comes from turning grouping off even worse though? I can't imagine having all of those programs filling up the taskbar would make things any easier.

How many programs do you usually have open at once? I tend to run a fairly tight ship, free of clutter. I've got enough room to keep my necessary programs open, and have lots of space leftover. Things like photo-editing web browsing and others rarely need more than one window, since multiple 'dopcuments' can be open in a single instance. Rarely do I have more than 2 Chrome windows open. Why? Cause they have tabs!

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa55/goodavatar/corelcap000.png (http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa55/goodavatar/corelcap000-1.jpg)

Fairly clean... click for full version.

Edit: Looks like my screen cap isn't capturing my title bars...

Slack3r78

03-03-2009, 05:04 PM

How many programs do you usually have open at once? I tend to run a fairly tight ship, free of clutter. I've got enough room to keep my necessary programs open, and have lots of space leftover. Things like photo-editing web browsing and others rarely need more than one window, since multiple 'dopcuments' can be open in a single instance. Rarely do I have more than 2 Chrome windows open. Why? Cause they have tabs!

Fairly clean...
Me having only one Explorer window open like in that screenshot is incredibly rare for me. I usually have at least 3-5 open at any given time because it's far more time efficient for me to leave any working folders open and switch between windows than it is for me to continuously navigate the filesystem. Firefox I usually have at least a browser window and the downloads window open. Pidgin has my buddy list and an IM window. Twhirl uses up a window. That's a minimum of 7-9 different windows open at any given time for me, and that's just the bare essentials, nevermind apps that I'm opening and closing on a regular basis.

Crittias

03-03-2009, 05:16 PM

Out of curiousity, what do you use to open a PDF nowadays? I'm always looking for an alternative.

Try Foxit Reader LITE.I'm going to have to give this a shot. I also author PDF documents for my classes, so I may try Foxit PDF Creator.

Any alternatives to Adobe Flash?

BlackPete

03-03-2009, 05:51 PM

BlackPete

03-03-2009, 05:55 PM

In addendum... I just wanted to throw in a +1 for the grouping feature in Win 7. I actually find it pretty useful and more logical than the XP + Vista solutions. When writing code, I often have a kazillion explorer windows that I open and close often in addition to others so the windows on the taskbar got out of order very quickly.

In Win 7, if I'm looking for an explorer window I have open, then I just click on the Explorer icon, and I'm able to find the window I want more quickly than button-hunting on a crowded task bar.

The fact that I can pin icons and assign them a unique Win+# hotkey is icing on the cake.

JayVe

03-03-2009, 05:58 PM

Umm... is that chick in middle right pic your wife? :D

Uh. Yeah. Snap. Forgot that was there.
:o

Heh. You called Mrs. Kamalot a chick. :D

May as well upload the whole damn photo (http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa55/goodavatar/Sunday.jpg)now.

JayVe

03-03-2009, 06:04 PM

That's a minimum of 7-9 different windows open at any given time for me, and that's just the bare essentials, nevermind apps that I'm opening and closing on a regular basis.

I have 7 open now, with room for more. I'd have even more room if I rotate the monitor.

For me, it is a personal preference. Eyes go to the taskbar before the mouse cursor gets there. By the time my eyes reach the taskbar, they already know exactly where to stop the mouse cursor. There is no hunting through lists of grouped windows, or waiting for screenshots.

I make an active point to keep things running clan and optimized. As an interface designer, it pains me to see people clutter their workspace with noise and it pains me even more to watch Microsoft impede people's efficiency.

I realize not everyone works the way I do. That's why the program grouping is a personal preference, and an OPTION. The idea of Microsoft taking away that option from me is another reason I'm hesitant to move to Windows 7.

BlackPete

03-03-2009, 06:11 PM

For me, it is a personal preference. Eyes go to the taskbar before the mouse cursor gets there. By the time my eyes reach the taskbar, they already know exactly where to stop the mouse cursor. There is no hunting through lists of grouped windows, or waiting for screenshots.

You don't have multiple instances of an app running? When I have multiple explorer windows, then looking down at the taskbar isn't enough because all the explorer buttons look the same -- I'd have to mouse over each one to get the full path to show up in a tool tip in order to find out which led to what directory.

Same deal for command prompt windows -- multiple instances means I don't know which goes where just by looking at them.

Finally I sometimes have 2 or 3 instances of Visual Studio running -- same project with different build targets means even the tool tip doesn't work -- I have to actually tab through each instance to figure out which one is the build target I'm looking for.

All this meant that the XP/Vista way was almost useless for me.

But still yes I do agree with you on the core point: Taking away the option to choose either way is dumb. I suspect that Microsoft is trying to dumb down their interface and trying to avoid confusing the customers by giving them too many options that end up freezing them into indecision. I generally support this approach, although I think the grouped windows toggle should've been left in.

JayVe

03-03-2009, 06:16 PM

You don't have multiple instances of an app running?

Rarely any more. I find myself cleaning as I go, closing unused windows. Just about all my programs allow me to open multiple documents in a single instance of the program. Why open two when one works? Also, I rarely need more than 2 Explorer windows open. I use the full explorer, and not the shitty "open" function that Windows defaults to. With a full tree view on the left, I can quickly get around just about anywhere. Like I said though, personal preference.

I just opened 16 windows, and can see their icons, and the first three letters of the title. That's enough for me to pick between several Explorer windows, and still have lots going on in the background.

I also find that I live almost exclusively in the browser these days. No longer do I need to have Outlook constantly running, and a separate IM window always open. I've got a permanent Gmail tab for 99% of my communications... other than communications with you good folks on CoG! :D Working in the cloud is fun and easy.

Different strokes for different folks... which is why removing options is a bad idea.

MagGnome

03-03-2009, 08:36 PM

How many programs do you usually have open at once? I tend to run a fairly tight ship, free of clutter. I've got enough room to keep my necessary programs open, and have lots of space leftover. Things like photo-editing web browsing and others rarely need more than one window, since multiple 'dopcuments' can be open in a single instance. Rarely do I have more than 2 Chrome windows open. Why? Cause they have tabs!

That's sort of what I was getting at, in a way. Why turn off grouping if you never have enough windows open for it to be a problem? I'm just curious.

Anyway, am I right in assuming that the new Windows 7 taskbar works much like the OSX dock? You can pin items, click on icons to quickly bring up all of that apps windows, etc.?

Mot Wakorb

03-03-2009, 08:48 PM

Anyway, am I right in assuming that the new Windows 7 taskbar works much like the OSX dock? You can pin items, click on icons to quickly bring up all of that apps windows, etc.?

It's a little different - with the peek feature, you mouse-over your grouped icon and it'll show views of your windows - I haven't found an expose-like item yet, but I'm sure it's there.

Slack3r78

03-03-2009, 08:54 PM

Rarely any more. I find myself cleaning as I go, closing unused windows. Just about all my programs allow me to open multiple documents in a single instance of the program. Why open two when one works? Also, I rarely need more than 2 Explorer windows open. I use the full explorer, and not the shitty "open" function that Windows defaults to. With a full tree view on the left, I can quickly get around just about anywhere. Like I said though, personal preference.
Take a minute and examine your behavior -- your work flow is specifically working around deficiencies in the window management behavior of Windows. There's no good reason you should have to constantly close and reopen applications or avoid running multiple instances because it leads to clutter other than the fact that the way Windows has traditionally handled application instances is cumbersome.

It's a relic of insufficient system memory and memory managers and poor window management systems. It was fine for when we had low resolution displays and systems that only had enough system memory to run a handful of applications well at once, but in the age of high resolution LCD displays and systems that routinely ship with 4GB or more of RAM (meaning there's sufficient surplus memory to make technologies like Superfetch not only feasible but a huge improvement), manually juggling which applications are running is just starting to seem a bit passe.

You're using a window-centric workflow; W7 is moving toward an application-centric workflow more akin to what's been available in OS X in the past.

EDIT:

For the record, a tree view with customizable favorites is the default Explorer view in W7. It's still faster to just leave multiple instances open to commonly used folders than to attempt to navigate the tree.

Slack3r78

03-03-2009, 08:58 PM

Anyway, am I right in assuming that the new Windows 7 taskbar works much like the OSX dock? You can pin items, click on icons to quickly bring up all of that apps windows, etc.?
It's actually a slightly better take on the concept, IMO. With OS X, when you select an application it brings ALL of that application's windows to the foreground. If you're looking for a specific instance of an application, that means you end up having to either use Expose or CMD-` to find the specific window you want.

With W7's taskbar, hovering over the application's for an instant brings up a preview of all its windows. If you move your mouse up over one of the previews, it uses the new peek feature to hide all other windows and show you the one you're looking at. This makes finding a specific instance a little bit more efficient than it sometimes is in OS X.

Not many applications support it yet, but the new taskbar also adds the ability for apps to present functionality by right-clicking on their taskbar icon, much like OS X already does if you hold-click or right-click a dock icon. It's a feature that's not getting much attention yet simply because it's not supported by legacy applications, but is huge step forward for the future of Windows usability.

Slack3r78

03-03-2009, 09:13 PM

On a side note, it wouldn't entirely surprise me if we see a particularly ballsy OS team entirely rethink the concept of 'closing' applications in the next ~5 years.

MagGnome

03-04-2009, 04:14 AM

Thanks for the responses guys.

I'm hoping to try the Windows 7 beta myself before too long.

JayVe

03-04-2009, 07:08 AM

That's sort of what I was getting at, in a way. Why turn off grouping if you never have enough windows open for it to be a problem? I'm just curious.

Cause if I leave grouping on, when I go to find my program, Windows has moved it. Instead of leaving something where I've left it, Windows comes along and 'cleans up' after me. That means when I go to look for my program, it isn't there. I have to switch from a "I know where I'm going" mode into a "Where should I be going?" mode. That slows me down. Compound that behavior with the thousands of times a day I go to the taskbar, and it becomes a real drain of time.

JayVe

03-04-2009, 07:12 AM

On a side note, it wouldn't entirely surprise me if we see a particularly ballsy OS team entirely rethink the concept of 'closing' applications in the next ~5 years.

This needs to happen.

I've been a long time Palm user, and love how there is no 'saving' or 'closing' necessary. Simply switch to the app you want, and leave when you are done.

With Palm's upcoming Pre phone and the WebOS, you'll be able to multitask all day long, and never have to worry about managing memory, or closing applications. It is the future, and managing memory is something humans should never have to do.

Also, about your other post concerning how I am working around Windows inefficiencies. It is true. Yet each of us when we work with any OS works around its inefficiencies. I've established a workflow that works for me, and the type of tasks that I do on a regular basis. I've established paths that allow me to get to my programs quickly, and that option of working has been removed from Windows 7... meaning I'm less likely to change to Windows 7.

Goronmon

03-04-2009, 07:34 AM

I do all my task switching through Alt-Tab. I don't even have a taskbar displayed on my work computer.

Slack3r78

03-04-2009, 07:36 AM

Cause if I leave grouping on, when I go to find my program, Windows has moved it. Instead of leaving something where I've left it, Windows comes along and 'cleans up' after me. That means when I go to look for my program, it isn't there. I have to switch from a "I know where I'm going" mode into a "Where should I be going?" mode. That slows me down. Compound that behavior with the thousands of times a day I go to the taskbar, and it becomes a real drain of time.
I agree with you on this with the way XP/Vista handled grouping, but the way W7 pins applications to the taskbar eliminates that. Like I said, in a month's time I've already developed enough muscle memory to basically sling the mouse at Firefox on my taskbar without having to think about it. Again, W7 lets you arrange applications on the taskbar however you'd like, which is something that the taskbar has been solely lacking in the past.

Also, about your other post concerning how I am working around Windows inefficiencies. It is true. Yet each of us when we work with any OS works around its inefficiencies. I've established a workflow that works for me, and the type of tasks that I do on a regular basis. I've established paths that allow me to get to my programs quickly, and that option of working has been removed from Windows 7... meaning I'm less likely to change to Windows 7.
Sure, that's understandable up to a point from an end user perspective. From the perspective of an OS UI designer though, you can't leave options in forever.

Microsoft has completely dumped the option of using the classic style start menu in W7, for example. Is that going to piss some people off? Absolutely. But the thing is that the newer iterations have been more efficient in nearly every way, but there are users who will continue to use the nearly 15 year old design of the classic start menu simply because it's what they're used to if given the option.

I'm not saying that the desires of these users should be ignored entirely. Rather what I'm getting at is that there is a definite class of user who will stick to the learned behavior of working around inefficiencies that have been fixed if they're given the option.

The UI is an application's public face, and companies have a vested interest in getting users on board with new interface approaches because the UI is the place where a user is going to get the most tangible benefit from the product. If they insist on sticking with decade-plus old user mechanics, any improvements are less tangible and you have a less compelling product on your hands.

JayVe

03-04-2009, 07:38 AM

...good stuff...
You make a number of excellent points. I love it here! :D

total

03-04-2009, 07:54 AM

Uh. Yeah. Snap. Forgot that was there.
:o

Heh. You called Mrs. Kamalot a chick. :D

May as well upload the whole damn photo (http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa55/goodavatar/Sunday.jpg)now.

Jesus lord man. Your wife has outstanding legs (I'm not a boob guy but definitely an ass and legs kinda guy)! You are one lucky bastard. I am so keeping you as a friend.

Anywho back on topic. I am right there with Slacker on the taskbar. It is a huge improvement in the Windows UI. I'm not really versed with Macs so I can't say how it is comparatively. I can say that is the most functional eye candy I've seen in an OS yet. I'm a huge fan of Compiz in Linux but this is slightly more functional but with less bells and whistles. I do wish there was some sort of window picker for all applications open (in Compiz you can toss your mouse up to a side of the screen and it will pop up a bunch of little previews of all applications running, even minimalized ones, then you can click on one to bring it into focus). I'm assuming this is what Expose does. I haven't really found anything equivalent in Windows yet.

JayVe

03-04-2009, 07:57 AM

Jesus lord man. Your wife has outstanding legs (I'm not a boob guy but definitely an ass and legs kinda guy)! You are one lucky bastard. I am so keeping you as a friend.Thank you my good man. She does not have a lot in the boob category, but i'm completely cuckoo for her just as she is.

Man oh man. I'm glad she does not read CoG. :D Posting Sunday-morning cellphone pics may get me spanked!

muddi900

03-04-2009, 08:01 AM

Anybody thinking about clutter, look at this:
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo299/muddi900/winspace.jpg

Yes, I know Kam, you think I'm a slob.

And the new alt-tab is cool:
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo299/muddi900/alttab.jpg
so clutter is a non issue.

It feels so snappy!

I used the new Paint, which is just the old paint with the ribbon interface. Makes a little difference, but not much:
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo299/muddi900/paint.jpg

Gonna install Paint.net.

Also, I installed the Vista x64 drivers for my 4850. No restart required.

total

03-04-2009, 08:06 AM

Thank you my good man. She does not have a lot in the boob category, but i'm completely cuckoo for her just as she is.

Man oh man. I'm glad she does not read CoG. :D Posting Sunday-morning cellphone pics may get me spanked!

You sir have much better Sunday mornings than me apparently. I spend them hungover with coffee and cigarettes. Well I guess that isn't entirely true. I did have a young lady in my bed this past Sunday morning. I took her out for breakfast and then we went and hung out at the Ax-Man...which is basically a huge store of junk. I can't believe I got a girl to go there with me actually.