Familiarity With Best Buy Return/Exchange?

[Iron Past]

This is going to make me sound massively stupid, and rightly so, so you've been forewarned.

I went to Circuit City to look for a TV. Saw a 46" Bravia (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=9023193&st=kdl+46xbr6&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1218009475194) on sale (actually the last TV still boxed up) and thought, hey great, I'll grab it. Didn't realize till I got home that it is a 120 hz TV (some asshat had ripped part of the box, the only part that showed the 'feature'); I hate 120 hz refresh rate TVs. I've managed to bring the weirdness down to acceptable levels by tweaking the settings in both the TV and the sat box, so it's not a huge deal or anything.

However, since CC is only open for another week, they're obviously not taking returns/exchanges. The TV works fine (and is gorgeous, btw), so has anyone known Best Buy to be lenient on the need for receipts when looking for store credit? Or any other retailer, for that matter. I still have all the packaging and everything, and would love for a chance to pick up something different.

See? Stupid. Be careful with your impulse buys, kids. :p

[Stmfuller]

you're boned.
Best Buy won't touch it w/out a receipt.
Might I suggest Craigslist?

[Alkanos]

I know the feeling. It sucks when you buy something new and shiny, and realize you missed that one piece of info that makes it a big mistake. But yeah, you're definitely gonna need a receipt for Best Buy. And it looks like Walmart doesn't stock the TV (at least, not on their website).

So you're probably gonna have to either get used to the refresh rate or sell it online via ebay or craigslist.

[Troggles]

In fact, for something that expensive, I'd be surprised if anywhere took it back without a receipt.

[rinichanraar]

Hmm... have you tried Costco? Checking briefly on their site, it looks like they sell a couple of different 46" Bravias.

Actually... is it this one (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11313950&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-US&s=1)?

[Wackman3000]

I don't get what you are trying to do... Are you saying you want to return something you bought from CC to a Best Buy, in exchange for something new?

If so, it will NEVER happen. If not, I don't understand your question.

[harle]

Hmm... have you tried Costco? Checking briefly on their site, it looks like they sell a couple of different 46" Bravias.

Actually... is it this one (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11313950&whse=BC&topnav=&browse=&lang=en-US&s=1)?Unfortunately it is not. He bought the XBR series. That TV you linked to is the W series.

Iron Past, can you not just disable the 120hz? I personally love the 120hz for games, not so much for movies. If you can just disable it and get 60hz, I would definitely keep the TV. The new XBR series are very nice.

[Iron Past]

Iron Past, can you not just disable the 120hz? I personally love the 120hz for games, not so much for movies. If you can just disable it and get 60hz, I would definitely keep the TV. The new XBR series are very nice.

Oh, man, it's beautiful. You can turn off Motion Plus (or Motion Enhancer or whatever), but not really turn off the refresh rate. After watching it last night, it's not so bad. I've tweaked some more settings to make it better. After I get used it it won't an issue; even my wife says it's not very noticeable now, and she's picky.

I might actually disable 1080P output on my box, since that's where it seems to look strange. I just need to be a little more careful next time. :)

[Khrymsyn]

Iron... look for a setting that switches between "Film" and "Video" and try it either way to see if you like one better than the other... I believe that controls whether or not the TV takes 24p input and does either 3:2 pulldown or 1:1 pulldown (only available on 120MHz TVs)... this may also be called TrueCinema or Film24p or something dealing with Film and Video, and also TURN OFF AUTOMOTION PLUS (or MotionFlow or whatever the hell Sony calls it. haha). MotionFlow/AMP/Whatever looks "wierd" for everything except sports. For sports it looks AWESOME...


Also... if you're going to hook up a gaming system, make sure to put the input the console(or PC) is on into GAME MODE. Otherwise you can have "input lag" to where your TV can take upwards of .1 second to show you what you and your console have already done.

[biosc1]

What's the issue with 120HZ anyways? I really need to check this idea out...seems like I'm hearing a lot about it lately and I can't see why manufacturers are using it if it's not getting much appreciation.

[Khrymsyn]

What's the issue with 120HZ anyways? I really need to check this idea out...seems like I'm hearing a lot about it lately and I can't see why manufacturers are using it if it's not getting much appreciation.

Well the problem is 120Hz is often used to refer to 2 completely different things, and there are a lot of "subitems" that are affected by the technology...

(trying to be concise on this one... ).

The technology of 120Hz is really kind of a "refresh rate" change. Without going crazy in explanation, one of the main advantages of this technology is that the "crystals" of the LCD change picture up to twice as fast as original LCD TVs, meaning less blur, and sharper picture. A side benefit to this is that original films, filmed at 24fps, are equally divisible into 120Hz meaning films can be displayed at thier filmed framerate, instead of an approximated framerate that they typically are (1:1 pulldown vs. 3:2 pulldown).

What most consumers think is 120Hz is actually a feature known as "Motion Prediction". Different manufacturers have different names for it, AMP, MotionPlus, Cinemotion, ETC. Basically what this feature does is... (and this will explain 1:1 pulldown vs. 3:2pulldown as well...)

As earlier stated, most films are filmed at 24fps (tv at 30fps), and most TVs are 60Hz TVs. To view a 24fps movie on a 60Hz TV, the TV would display each frame like follows... 1,1,1,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,5,5,5,6,6. This is known as 3:2 pulldown.
With 120Hz TVs, since 24fps is evenly divisible, you know have the ability to show the movie as follows... 1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,5,5,5,5,5. .. This is called 1:1 pulldown, because it is evenly divisible (I've also seen it listed as 5:5 pulldown). This gives a more "true" vision of a 24fps Film.

Motion Prediction basically takes each frame of film (or video), and tries to figure out what each frame might look like BETWEEN known frames... meaning instead of seeing 1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2... what you really see is 1.0,1.2,1.4,1.6,1.8,2.0,2.2,2.4,2.6,2.8
This has 2 effects. A) it sharpens the picture (long story, but has to do with how humans see and perceive motion) and B) "smoothens" the video which gives it a "soap opera" look.
That look is not what we consider natural, so many people dislike it.

[biosc1]

Right. Thank you. I read up on the 3:2 versus the 1:1 thing. I understand that it's to prevent jitter during pans, etc...

Having yet to actually look closer at a 120HZ screen, can I assume that the major issue with 120HZ is that it looks "too clean"?

[Borthcollective]

Is that what I see on Samsungs, where it looks like it's almost cell shaded or water color?

[Khrymsyn]

Right. Thank you. I read up on the 3:2 versus the 1:1 thing. I understand that it's to prevent jitter during pans, etc...

Having yet to actually look closer at a 120HZ screen, can I assume that the major issue with 120HZ is that it looks "too clean"?

Honestly, I don't think very many people can tell the difference between 60Hz or 120Hz, unless they are playing a video game or watching something with very fast motion.

99% of the time, what people are noticing is that "motion prediction" stuff I mentioned earlier, and THAT stuff can be turned off.


Is that what I see on Samsungs, where it looks like it's almost cell shaded or water color?

Sorry Borth, have absolutely no clue what you are talking about here. I have a Sammy and it produces FANTASTIC colors. No cell shading or water coloring...

[Iron Past]

Honestly, I don't think very many people can tell the difference between 60Hz or 120Hz, unless they are playing a video game or watching something with very fast motion.

99% of the time, what people are noticing is that "motion prediction" stuff I mentioned earlier, and THAT stuff can be turned off.

I really don't notice it unless it's something that's in a high resolution. By turning off the "motion enhancer" and disabling the 1080P output for my satellite box it usually doesn't bother me very much at all now. It still bothers me when it pans in HD shows and movies from my DVD player, but that's about it.