Ready to give a jRPG a shot... [Archive]

carnage11

02-26-2009, 09:17 PM

So I've been playing through Phantasy Star recently and I'm having a lot of fun. So, now I'm looking to maybe move on to something next gen when it comes to the jRPG. A little background info: I've never been into jRPGs, I really don't get what's so great about Final Fantasy. So I've never played one. I absolutely LOVE RPGs otherwise. Mass Effect, Fallout 3, KotOR, Fable, etc. I've been having a lot of fun with Phantasy Star, so I was thinking about giving one of the newer ones a try. Maybe I've been missing something great all this time? I was looking at Star Ocean 4, and it looks promising. It is getting pretty good reviews, and I think I'd be into the story. My question is: For someone who has never played a jRPG before, what's a good one to start with? Something that won't turn me off and give me a bad taste for the genre. I've been looking at Tales of Vesperia (sp?) and also The Last Remnent, though those didn't get as good reviews as Star Ocean. I really like the story and feel of Phantasy Star, but the newest iterations of those games got really bad reviews.

Somethings you should know:
I own an Xbox 360, PS2, Gamecube. Of those, I especially want one for the 360 because I like getting achievements, and now playing PS2 games seems like such a waste of time.:p Though, I know the PS2 has a HUGE library of really great RPGs. So while 360 is preferable, PS2 isn't out of the question. What's a good one to start with? Star Ocean? Xenosaga maybe?

One more catch. No one can mention Final Fantasy. I will try anything but Final Fantasy. Sorry.:p

Mot Wakorb

02-26-2009, 09:25 PM

Lost Odyssey. that is all.

divinechaos

02-26-2009, 09:44 PM

I recently got Dragon Quest VIII for PS2 for only $5 and it's pretty fun. Also, Lost Odyssey has some great writing.

TheEpicOfTyler

02-26-2009, 09:44 PM

I don't get why you dislike Final Fantasy so much without ever having played one?

carnage11

02-26-2009, 09:52 PM

I don't get why you dislike Final Fantasy so much without ever having played one?

I've seen enough people play it that I just don't like the characters or the story. It also might be one of those, 'I hate it because it's popular' type deals. I'm more into the space/sci-fi type games (at least as far as the jRPG goes).

One other thing I'm not too sure about, turn based? or real time? I actually prefer turn based, like KotOR. ME and Fallout 3 both were real time, but had the ability to pause and think. So I'm thinking I'm looking for a turn based game, which Star Ocean is not.

So Lost Odyssey? I might check out some videos of it online.

I'll add an updating roster to the first post to see what gets the most votes.

nnanji

02-26-2009, 10:12 PM

If you liked the sci-fi feel of the Phantasy Star games, might I suggest Rogue Galaxy for the PS2.

Widgetcraft

02-26-2009, 10:15 PM

I've seen enough people play it that I just don't like the characters or the story. It also might be one of those, 'I hate it because it's popular' type deals. I'm more into the space/sci-fi type games (at least as far as the jRPG goes).

All of the characters and stories are different from game to game. If you say "I don't like Final Fantasy" you might as well say "I don't like jRPGs" because they span the entire genre in terms of themes and character archetypes. Just look at FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII and FFIX: Four jRPGs couldn't be more different.

One other thing I'm not too sure about, turn based? or real time? I actually prefer turn based, like KotOR. ME and Fallout 3 both were real time, but had the ability to pause and think. So I'm thinking I'm looking for a turn based game, which Star Ocean is not.

If you want a turn-based next-gen RPG, I think you might be stuck with Blue Dragon. I'm not sure, really, but I think there has been a big push for real-time over the past few years. Even the last Final Fantasy (XII) was basically real time.

If you're cool with last-gen, check out Persona 4. Though, you should keep in mind that the Persona games base a lot of their gameplay around building relationships with people, rather than being solely focused on combat.

If you have a PSP or DS, your options open up quite a bit more.

Gorvi

02-26-2009, 10:34 PM

Persona 3 FES if you can find it. It's better than any of the current gen JRPGs by far. Persona 4 would also probably do nicely as well.

Troggles

02-26-2009, 10:36 PM

Shadow Hearts. Full series. Covenant being my favorite if I had to choose one.

Gorvi

02-26-2009, 10:37 PM

Shadow Hearts. Full series. Covenant being my favorite if I had to choose one.
You have great taste. ;) That last boss in Covenant is a cheating bastard, though. :p

Alkanos

02-26-2009, 10:42 PM

If you liked the sci-fi feel of the Phantasy Star games, might I suggest Rogue Galaxy for the PS2.

I agree, if you're going for a scifi jrpg Rogue Galaxy was a pretty good one. Though if you're willing to branch out into fantasy Lost Odyssey is also great. Except the boss fights, those are just cheap. :P

carnage11

02-26-2009, 10:56 PM

Persona sounds interesting. This might be my best bet.

Though, you should keep in mind that the Persona games base a lot of their gameplay around building relationships with people, rather than being solely focused on combat.

Actually, that's a turn-on for me and not a turn-off. As far as Persona 4, would I be missing anything if I skipped right to the 4th? Are they all separate stories or sequels? Gorvi mentioned 3....is 4 better than 3?

Also, Rouge Galaxy sounds interesting, and I've never heard of it.

I'ma go search some videos on both of these games and see what I turn up.:)

edit: As far as Final Fantasy goes, let's just say I'm stubborn and leave it at that. :p

Widgetcraft

02-26-2009, 10:59 PM

Persona sounds interesting. This might be my best bet.

Actually, that's a turn-on for me and not a turn-off. As far as Persona 4, would I be missing anything if I skipped right to the 4th? Are they all separate stories or sequels? Gorvi mentioned 3....is 4 better than 3?

Also, Rouge Galaxy sounds interesting, and I've never heard of it.

I'ma go search some videos on both of these games and see what I turn up.:)

No, the Persona games aren't so closely related that you'll be missing out on anything important. There are some consistencies between the games, and 4 does make a few references to 3, but that is about it. Personally, I liked 4 better than 3, but I haven't finished either. Gametrailers has reviews for both:

23708

44007

Purple Santa

02-26-2009, 11:02 PM

carnage11

02-26-2009, 11:12 PM

Well, after checking out some videos, it looks like I might check out Persona 4 and Rogue Galaxy. Both of these games look pretty promising as far as what I'm looking for.

I also might run to Blockbuster and give Lost Odyssey a rental. I'm not too sure about the fantasy bit, so I'm gonna rent it first, and judge from there. Damn, and I almost ran out and bought Star Ocean 4 on my way home from work tonight. I may have just saved myself some money. It looks like the PS2 games are a good bit cheaper, and maybe I can find them used. I really wish they had achievements though. lol!:D

Thanks everyone who's given me advice. I might just turn into the very thing I thought I would never......a jRPG fan. :p

LongStepMantis

02-26-2009, 11:13 PM

Persona series, no question. Persona 4 seems to be the best choice from other opinions, I simply can't say because I've only played 2 and 3.

If you were willing to go back that far, and since PS2's are backwards compatible, I'd also suggest Suikoden (PS1). It's a PSN download for PS3 now, but it might be more effort than it's worth to find a PS1 copy. I just have a soft spot for Suikoden 1 and 2. But I'd say start with 1 if you've never played the series. I'd avoid most of the PS2 entries though.

Banacek

02-26-2009, 11:43 PM

You have great taste. ;) That last boss in Covenant is a cheating bastard, though. :p

Are we talking the last boss or the secret last boss? ;)

Banacek

02-26-2009, 11:44 PM

Oh, and some of us still love Final Fantasy.

LiquidRain

02-27-2009, 12:06 AM

As a jRPG newcomer, I'd stay away from 360 jRPGs. Star Ocean: The Last Hope (which i'm a few hours into) will very likely put you off immediately with the voice acting and the 3D modeling and animations on the characters. Vesperia would be a better bet if you don't mind the more anime style, but really, you're probably better off with Persona. (can't say I've played the series but I sure have heard enough about em)

BlackPete

02-27-2009, 01:25 AM

Sounds like Final Fantasy may be right up your alley. :D

I too found it odd that you'd refuse to play it as each game has been wildly different that they're all only connected by name.

MelbaToast

02-27-2009, 01:38 AM

Lost Odyssey all the way.

J Arcane

02-27-2009, 02:22 AM

I keep saying this, because people keep asking for JRPGs, but the truth is, Dragon Quest 5 is the finest JRPG I have ever played. (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showthread.php?t=5243) It is a goddamn masterpiece in every way, from the music, to the story, to the simple yet deceptively so combat system. Get ZSNES, get the DQ5 translation, prepare to be lost to the world for several days. I would recommend the DS version, but I haven't gotten a chance to play it yet, so I can't vouch for the quality of the remake. The stuff I've heard about it gives me mixed feelings.

I also recommend Pokemon Diamond/Pearl. Yes, I said Pokemon. You can scoff at the series all you want, deride it as kid's stuff, but what they have done with the latest games in the series is produce a very tightly balanced and well made little RPG that will absolutely and positively suck you in. While previous games in the series tended to be rather on the grindy side, with D/P they have created the WoW to the previous games' EQ. The story is simple, and gleefully takes a back seat for much of the game, there's a freedom of direction and goal that, while obviously not on par with an FO3 or Oblivion, is largely unparalleled in JRPG games (except perhaps for some parts of DQ5).

menage

02-27-2009, 02:29 AM

Lost Odyssey is the best JRPG I played since , well, the PS1 days. It takes a while to get started (lot's of story, but a greta one at that), but the battles are great, music excellent and characters quite phenomenal. It also steers away form the usual "young boy in village saves the world with his whining friends" stuff.

Persona is great as well, can't go wrong with that. Although I did find the actual gameplay getting rather samey after a while. The story and school bits are way more fun.

Uniqueusername

02-27-2009, 03:58 AM

I really liked Lost Odyssey. Be aware that it has a slightly slow start, and some of the the early graphics and animations aren't as good as later in the game.

I also picked up Enchanted Arms ultra cheap, and thought that was a fun time-waster, although it's not really an AAA title.

Chris_D

02-27-2009, 05:43 AM

I'd say Tales of Vesperia for it's slick graphics and presentation along with it's fun action oriented combat. The difficulty is not going to stress you and there is even an easy setting if you need it (or hard!). Highly recommended, probably the best on the 360 at the moment. My second recommendation would be one of the Persona's, 3 FES, or 4. This may be a little hardcore at first though but give them a shot down the road. Interesting settings and stories.

Narradisall

02-27-2009, 06:05 AM

Lost Odyssey is a great example of a old school JRPG, warts and all.

Slow start and disappointing ending (to me), but a great story that differs from the usual JRPG stories.

Stick to Persona if you prefer the sci-fi setting.

Gorvi

02-27-2009, 06:22 AM

Persona sounds interesting. This might be my best bet.

Actually, that's a turn-on for me and not a turn-off. As far as Persona 4, would I be missing anything if I skipped right to the 4th? Are they all separate stories or sequels? Gorvi mentioned 3....is 4 better than 3?

Also, Rouge Galaxy sounds interesting, and I've never heard of it.
"The biggest reason I'd go recommend playing Persona 3 over 4 first is that some of the gameplay refinements made in 4 (from what I've heard, I'm still playing 3) would make it hard to go back to 3. So that way, if you like it, you'll have 2 games to play through. :)

Rogue Galaxy is a fun game, with the only complaint I really had being that the dungeon design blows. Otherwise, the combat is pretty fun and the story is at least interesting, as weird as it gets in the end. Also, it's very pretty for a PS2 game.
Are we talking the last boss or the secret last boss? ;)
Secret last boss? Man, it's been too long since I played, so I can't remember. I think I mean the real last boss, he was cheap as hell.

Panthera

02-27-2009, 07:59 AM

I find it really odd that you'd be so turned off by Final Fantasy games when the Phantasy Star and Persona games are much more.... uh... Japanese.

TheFlyingOrc

02-27-2009, 08:02 AM

Get a DS. Play Chrono Trigger.

This is the only correct choice.

Banacek

02-27-2009, 09:10 AM

Secret last boss? Man, it's been too long since I played, so I can't remember. I think I mean the real last boss, he was cheap as hell.

Haha, I know what you mean. I just remember there was a seriously hard secret boss in that game. But there were so many side quests that I don't really remember now.

Xydarc

02-27-2009, 10:16 AM

Dark Cloud 2 for PS2: Sim City elements mixed with action-JRPG goodness.
Mana Khemia PS2
Ar Tonelico PS2
Atelier Iris series PS2
Disgaea 1 and 2 PS2
Final Fantasy Tactics remake on PSP. I know you said no FF, but Tactics is enough of a departure from the FF norm that I think you'd like it.
dot Hack series PS2

Spigot

02-27-2009, 10:25 AM

I'd recommend Persona 4 but you're a JRPG newbie, so you might want to try it after you try something else.

That something else should really be Lost Odyssey. It's a completely traditional JRPG with just enough extra stuff to keep you interested AND it looks and sounds amazing. Plus the story was quite decent, if I do say so myself.

Start with Lost Odyssey and then we'll get you going on some real classics.

Crap, I forgot about Chrono Trigger. I thought we were just going with that list at the top.

Start with Chrono Trigger, THEN Lost Odyssey and then Persona 4.

carnage11

02-27-2009, 01:28 PM

Gorvi

02-27-2009, 02:05 PM

Well I bought Persona 4 today on my way home from work. I have to go to my next job, so I can't try it out until tonight when I get home.

I think I might see if I can't find a used copy of Lost Odyssey. Enough people here seem to think it's great, that I might just give it a go.

The exact reason why I don't like Final Fantasy played out perfectly in this thread. I specifically said, don't mention the damn game, yet no one could go 3 posts without mentioning it. lol! I don't know, but I refuse to play Final Fantasy just simply because everyone wants me to play it so damn bad. Yeah, I'm a jerk I guess.:p
I hope you enjoy it!

About the whole FF thing, most of them really are great games, that's why they get so much praise. They're some of the most polished games in any genre, so they get more attention than most other RPGs. I wouldn't just write them off, or else you'll be missing out on some of the greats. If you do decide to give them a shot, Final Fantasy XII is a great one to try out.

Spigot

02-27-2009, 02:43 PM

Hell, playing Lost Odyssey is, in my mind, what FFXII would have been if they hadn't changed up how FF games play when they made FFXII.

It's essentially a next-gen paint job on classic Final Fantasy gameplay and storytelling. Works for me!

Johan

02-27-2009, 03:07 PM

You have my sympathies.

Uh...I mean...go play Blue Dragon! :D

Spigot

02-27-2009, 03:10 PM

You have my sympathies.

Uh...I mean...go play Blue Dragon! :DYou either really want to scare him away from JRPGs or want to set the bar so low that everything else looks like a masterpiece...

LongStepMantis

02-27-2009, 03:19 PM

I hope you enjoy it!

About the whole FF thing, most of them really are great games, that's why they get so much praise. They're some of the most polished games in any genre, so they get more attention than most other RPGs. I wouldn't just write them off, or else you'll be missing out on some of the greats. If you do decide to give them a shot, Final Fantasy XII is a great one to try out.

I think most people, even those (like me) that hate FF can't claim the games aren't good. Unless you just really, really dislike RPGs and/or jRPGs.

The problem I have with FF is that it's been done...to death. I'm simply tired of the FF universe. I still think many of the FF games are among the best RPGs ever made. But after playing FF 1-12 over many years, I just can't pretend that I'm not tired of it. I even played so much FF tactics it was sickening, I'm just ready to move on. I'd think they would be wonderful for people who aren't as, I guess jaded, as I am.

Banacek

02-27-2009, 03:20 PM

You either really want to scare him away from JRPGs or want to set the bar so low that everything else looks like a masterpiece...

If he wants to really set the bar low he could go find a copy of Beyond The Beyond ;)

J Arcane

02-27-2009, 03:27 PM

I think most people, even those (like me) that hate FF can't claim the games aren't good.

I sure as shit can.

LongStepMantis

02-27-2009, 03:27 PM

If he wants to really set the bar low he could go find a copy of Beyond The Beyond ;)

"That's lower than a limbo stick...at carnival time!
And that's as low as limbo sticks get!"

Seriously, that game was so damn painful we should never even mention it again. I know from my own foolish experience.

Wasson_

02-27-2009, 03:28 PM

Xenogears.

that's my jRPG suggestion. It's pretty damn good.

LiquidRain

02-27-2009, 03:33 PM

"That's lower than a limbo stick...at carnival time!
And that's as low as limbo sticks get!"

Seriously, that game was so damn painful we should never even mention it again. I know from my own foolish experience.
Does Quest64 count?

Widgetcraft

02-27-2009, 03:33 PM

I think most people, even those (like me) that hate FF can't claim the games aren't good. Unless you just really, really dislike RPGs and/or jRPGs.

The problem I have with FF is that it's been done...to death. I'm simply tired of the FF universe. I still think many of the FF games are among the best RPGs ever made. But after playing FF 1-12 over many years, I just can't pretend that I'm not tired of it. I even played so much FF tactics it was sickening, I'm just ready to move on. I'd think they would be wonderful for people who aren't as, I guess jaded, as I am.

What "FF Universe" are you talking about? Virtually none of the numbered series take place in the same setting.

DarkDay

02-27-2009, 03:38 PM

Lost Odyssey. End Thread.

LongStepMantis

02-27-2009, 03:39 PM

What "FF Universe" are you talking about? Virtually none of the numbered series take place in the same setting.

I'm aware of that. but every FF game still feels the same to me, similar styles, designs, creatures, etc. They incorporated sci-fi elements around 6/7 and went with that for a while....but it's still the same thing with new coats of paint/setting to me. As I've said before as well, I'm burnt out on fantasy settings in general. I don't want any more RPGs with dragons and swords and skeletons and magic set in verdant green fields and dark cave dungeons.

That's part of why I like Persona. It still has mythical creatures and the rest of it, but at least it isn't set in "typical fantasy setting #372". I've been playing RPGs as long as they've been around, and I'm just burnt out on the "swords and sorcery" environment.

Maybe you understand what I'm getting at, maybe not.

Widgetcraft

02-27-2009, 04:35 PM

I'm aware of that. but every FF game still feels the same to me, similar styles, designs, creatures, etc.

I don't get that at all. I mean, the first five, I'll give you. But VI was set in a steampunk universe modeled after the 19th century. VII was set in a fantasy/cyberpunk hybrid world. VIII was some kind of weird 1930's-ish setting, but with swords, magic, and a system of government that I still don't understand. IX was high fantasy again. X was just weird and random, but it certainly wasn't like any of the others in terms of thematics.

I mean, if those games are too similar for you, what is really left for you to play?

torrefaction

02-27-2009, 04:43 PM

I honestly wish I could still play JRPGS :(

*Edit*

And I'm with Heretic, saying FF's feel the same just strikes me as batshit insane.

J Arcane

02-27-2009, 04:53 PM

I honestly wish I could still play JRPGS :(

*Edit*

And I'm with Heretic, saying FF's feel the same just strikes me as batshit insane.
From about FFII until FFX, pretty much every damn one of them uses the same combat system, the same spell lists, just one new additional new gimmick subsystem to learn for each game.

In FFX, they dropped the ATB portion, but the remainder of the combat system was almost identical in function.

In FFXI obviously, things changed, somewhat, to accommodate the MMO-ness, and that then got combined with a bastardized standard FF combat system for FFXII.

Besides the combat system, what else have you got? An overwrought story full of unlikeable characters, and a lot of grindy random battles over and over again.

I think FFXII was the first game in the series that actually felt genuinely different, and that was only because, as mentioned, it's basically just a hacked offline MMO.

Chris_D

02-27-2009, 05:11 PM

I like FF quite a bit, but generally my opinions are out of line with most I think. FFXII is definitely my favorite even though I never finished it. It was an extremely slick and beautiful game. Also, I loved the combat and setting up the gambits. It did get dull towards the end once you had the "perfect" setup but still I had way more fun with the combat than I did with any other FF game. Apart from that, I enjoyed FF7 as my first FF with it's really cool sci-fi / fantasy setting. Then FF8, well it had problems, but very stylish and interesting. I probably like it better than 7. Then 9, well that was a bit of a turd. The whole story, characters, and settings, just so dull. Usually these elements are the most important thing to me in a JRPG. Apart from that, FF10 was OK as a first effort on PS2 but the story didn't grab me and the voice acting was horrible.

For the crossover between games, well actually, I'm pretty sick of chocobos and moogles. Happy to never see them again in another FF game. I don't mind the re-use of monsters so much, some of them are pretty cool, like the Marlboras.

LongStepMantis

02-27-2009, 05:15 PM

Damn guys, I'm not campaigning to end the FF franchise or anything. :p

It's just not for me anymore. I'm certainly not isolating FF, that's the same reason I've stopped playing a lot of RPGS. I've already stated that they're good games. It's just my opinion. I do find most of them to be the same, aside from obvious graphical updates and varying the setting a bit. If that makes me batshit insane, so be it.

Alkanos

02-27-2009, 06:01 PM

I don't get that at all. I mean, the first five, I'll give you. But VI was set in a steampunk universe modeled after the 19th century. VII was set in a fantasy/cyberpunk hybrid world. VIII was some kind of weird 1930's-ish setting, but with swords, magic, and a system of government that I still don't understand. IX was high fantasy again. X was just weird and random, but it certainly wasn't like any of the others in terms of thematics.

I mean, if those games are too similar for you, what is really left for you to play?It's true, almost all of the FF games have quite different settings, but the core gameplay is pretty much the same. FFXII mixed it up a bit, that is true. However, most FF games reuse the same magic, monsters, skills, etc in each iteration, but with a different setting and story.

Actually, the stories are quite similar too, at least in the last few games. Main character is part of some sort of rebellion against an evil superpower, only to find that said superpower is being manipulated behind the scenes by some superevil bent on world domination/destruction. And only your group of plucky heroes can save the world! I haven't played FF 1-4 and don't remember much about 5, but 6-12 all seem to have this overarching theme.

Now don't get me wrong, I actually like Final Fantasy games. However, I can see how someone can get sick of them. Each game is similar to the previous, but with some gimmick thrown in to kinda spice it up. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Anyway, back on topic. Another scifi jrpg you might want to try out is Xenosaga on PS2. It's spread through 3 games, and the story can really drag on sometimes, but it's still pretty good. Plus, you can get the first game used on Ebay or Amazon for $5.

Hyperglide

02-27-2009, 08:38 PM

If you don't buy Lost Odyssey you fail at life.

Lots of suggestions for it but no ones mentioned the 1000 years of dreams which is best part of this game. They are short novella's based on the main character Kaim's arduous journey through life (SPOILERISH:there's also a couple with the other main characters who are immortal) of being an immortal experiencing living through countless ages and deaths and life. It's such an introspective and emotionally charging experience you will warrant the purchase just for those, which is great food for thought. Also the music is just amazing and really lends itself to the backstory. Nobuo Uematsu's best work since FFVII.

Also the developer Mistwalker is a lot of former employee's of Square-Enix and worked on the Final Fantasy Series before it went to Viera, Bangaa, and all other sorts of oddities for the series. My point is the pedigree is there and they aren't resting on their laurels with this game. If you are not a Final Fantasy series fan, don't take that as a knock there's not a lot of cutesy or oddities in the LO universe (if that's what turned you off from them). Except for Kelolons maybe hehe..

Don't rent this. Again BUY IT! NOW! Stop reading this and go now!

EternalGamer

02-27-2009, 08:51 PM

Lost Odyssey is by far the best choice for you. It is the best looking of all the next gen RPGs and has the best production values (cutscenes, voice work, and translation). It's also got a pretty easy to understand battle system but one that will keep you on your toes (just make sure to keep up with those ring accessories!).

EternalGamer

02-27-2009, 08:56 PM

What "FF Universe" are you talking about? Virtually none of the numbered series take place in the same setting.

Yeah, the series does have some reoccuring elements but these are generally more abstract qualities. For example, I think it is pretty much a universal that the storylines that modern day FF games unravel to engage in cosmic sci-fi technobabble by the end. And you will always have Chocobos.

Other than that, though, there isn't much similarity between the entries. Regardless of what people might say about individual entries in the series, it certainly is one of the most radically changing of all gaming series. The storylines and characters are always completely new. Even the battle systems are usually pretty radically different. Final Fantasy XII in particular was pretty radically different from any previous game in the series.

carnage11

02-27-2009, 09:25 PM

I love how I said, in Post #1, not to mention Final Fantasy, and somehow......the thread turned into a discussion about.....none other than the very game I said not to mention.:mad:

*sigh* :(

I'm gonna give Lost Odyssey a try, not sure if I'll rent it first though. Well at the very least I'm gonna play through Persona 4 for a while.:)

Spigot

02-27-2009, 09:29 PM

It only became that because a) you stipulated NOT to talk about it (big mistake) and b) your reason for not wanting to talk about it (or play it) is simply a contrarian position. It's like saying you've heard oxygen is great and all, but you don't feel like breathing just to spite everyone who tells you how great it is to breath.

Banacek

02-27-2009, 10:32 PM

Yeah, the series does have some reoccuring elements but these are generally more abstract qualities. For example, I think it is pretty much a universal that the storylines that modern day FF games unravel to engage in cosmic sci-fi technobabble by the end. And you will always have Chocobos.

Other than that, though, there isn't much similarity between the entries. Regardless of what people might say about individual entries in the series, it certainly is one of the most radically changing of all gaming series. The storylines and characters are always completely new. Even the battle systems are usually pretty radically different. Final Fantasy XII in particular was pretty radically different from any previous game in the series.

It seems that a lot of people dislike the familiarity of the FF games, but for me that's one of the things I love. I don't have to guess what firaga does. I know a Tonberry is probably going to slaughter my party if I happen to run into one. I know all the mechanics, so I don't have to worry about them. It frees the developers to focus on epic story lines and changes to the battle system. The only thing that pisses me off about FF games is the fact that the International version always blows the US version out of the water. I think if more people played FFX-Int they would like that game a lot more.

Xerxes

02-27-2009, 10:52 PM

Pokemon Diamond. It's simple, fun, and you gotta catch em all. :)

Widgetcraft

02-28-2009, 03:35 AM

I love how I said, in Post #1, not to mention Final Fantasy, and somehow......the thread turned into a discussion about.....none other than the very game I said not to mention.:mad:

Look, just do me a favor and check out this video:

6m0SREeljVQ

It features the uninterrupted opening of FFVI. The guy who posted it lingers on the menu for a bit too long, but the video is only five minutes long. If that doesn't interest you at all, fair enough, but just ignoring a franchise (for no good reason) that basically defines the genre is simply a mistake.

EDIT: Just noticed that this isn't any of the official translations. It is a romhack-retranslation, so the writing is a bit iffy... I dunno, I couldn't find any playthroughs without some annoying dingus mouth-breathing into a mic.

EDIT2: Replaced it with a different video, that is better, and includes actual gameplay. You can watch more if you like, as he is apparently doing a full playthrough. It is the shitty PSX version, so there is a pause between entering battle and exiting battle, and the music isn't as good as the SNES version, but whatev.

Spigot

02-28-2009, 06:10 AM

It seems that a lot of people dislike the familiarity of the FF games, but for me that's one of the things I love. That's the way I feel about the FF games. I might like what other JRPGs do in certain areas and so forth, but I always feel like I'm slipping into a comfy pair of slippers when I fire up a Final Fantasy game.

LongStepMantis

02-28-2009, 03:05 PM

That's the way I feel about the FF games. I might like what other JRPGs do in certain areas and so forth, but I always feel like I'm slipping into a comfy pair of slippers when I fire up a Final Fantasy game.

I used to share the sentiment. I just don't anymore. I certainly don't think anyone else is "wrong" for thinking so. In a way I actually wish I did still find the series interesting. They're damn good games. It's just one of those "I got older and my tastes changed" situations I guess.

Gorvi

02-28-2009, 03:08 PM

That's the way I feel about the FF games. I might like what other JRPGs do in certain areas and so forth, but I always feel like I'm slipping into a comfy pair of slippers when I fire up a Final Fantasy game.
Yep, that's pretty much how I feel. It really doesn't hurt that they're all, for the most part, excellent games even if you removed the FF trappings.

Spigot

02-28-2009, 03:31 PM

Yep, that's pretty much how I feel. It really doesn't hurt that they're all, for the most part, excellent games even if you removed the FF trappings.Aye. I will say that I'm starting to feel a little like Longstepmantis, esp. when it comes to FFXIII. I've got so many other great JRPGs (and some that are just good instead of GREAT) gathering dust as it is... it's hard to really get excited for the oft-delayed FFXIII. Not to say I won't buy it day one, but I don't really bother following anything about it and don't feel that ol' tingle in my tummy that I used to.

To put it another way, I'd feel a lot more excited if they were to announce Persona 5 than I would about hearing the FFXIII release date.

Gorvi

03-01-2009, 05:40 AM

Aye. I will say that I'm starting to feel a little like Longstepmantis, esp. when it comes to FFXIII. I've got so many other great JRPGs (and some that are just good instead of GREAT) gathering dust as it is... it's hard to really get excited for the oft-delayed FFXIII. Not to say I won't buy it day one, but I don't really bother following anything about it and don't feel that ol' tingle in my tummy that I used to.

To put it another way, I'd feel a lot more excited if they were to announce Persona 5 than I would about hearing the FFXIII release date.
I can see that. I guess I just look at them differently, they're both JRPGs, but wildly different. Persona isn't going to scratch my itch for something with an epic feel, but Final Fantasy is never going to have that deep social interaction and dungeon crawling. I love both for different reasons and I can't wait to play more of each. :)

Spigot

03-01-2009, 07:15 AM

I guess it's also the case that I've played Final Fantasies and Dragon Warriors/Quests for nigh on 20 years or so (ever since they first reared their ugly heads on our Western shores) but my time with games like Persona or the SMT games has been quite short, relatively speaking. It doesn't help that 80% or so of JRPGs ape the FF/DQ format, which makes anything that isn't a bunch of fantasy warriors saving the world super refreshing.

That said, FF games have such a level of polish on them and you know you're in for a crazy ride, so I always enjoy playing them.

Mr. Murphy

03-01-2009, 07:52 AM

I don't know, but I refuse to play Final Fantasy just simply because everyone wants me to play it so damn bad. Yeah, I'm a jerk I guess.:p

Being a jerk is when you are mean to other people. The only person missing out here is you.

J Arcane

03-01-2009, 11:03 AM

Being a jerk is when you are mean to other people. The only person missing out here is you.
Then allow me to offer him my personal assurance that despite the protestations of fanboys, he really isn't missing a damn thing he couldn't get better of with other games.

Banacek

03-01-2009, 11:07 AM

Then allow me to offer him my personal assurance that despite the protestations of fanboys, he really isn't missing a damn thing he couldn't get better of with other games.

At this point I really have to wonder why you enter jRPG threads.

J Arcane

03-01-2009, 11:10 AM

At this point I really have to wonder why you enter jRPG threads.
Normally I don't, but this was a special circumstance for one, I.E., the introduction of one otherwise unversed in the genre.

But mainly when I do, it's to steer people clear from the usual mediocre suggestions, toward games in the genre that are actually good, like DQ, Pokemon, Persona.

Thankfully Persona these days is getting as much recognition as FF or DQ, so you all do that part of the work for me. ;)

Banacek

03-01-2009, 11:22 AM

I really need to get a PS2 and try these Persona games. I just don't feel like spending money for a PS2 again.

Gorvi

03-01-2009, 11:38 AM

Then allow me to offer him my personal assurance that despite the protestations of fanboys, he really isn't missing a damn thing he couldn't get better of with other games.
I know acting like one of the more popular series from the genre isn't that great may seem "cool", but you're still wrong, especially when you point out Pokemon as one of "the good ones" in the next breath. That doesn't mean that it's a bad thing to point out other games in the genre that should be played, like the woefully under appreciated Shadow Hearts series, but the Final Fantasy games are largely popular for a reason: they're, for the most part, very good.

Could they have used a bit more innovation when it comes to their battle systems? Sure, but then again, you could levy the same complaint against Dragon Quest, and it's still a very good series.
I really need to get a PS2 and try these Persona games. I just don't feel like spending money for a PS2 again.
You really should. I couldn't understand what all the fuss was about until I finally started P3 2 months ago. It's a breath of fresh air for RPGs, just an all around great game.

J Arcane

03-01-2009, 12:00 PM

I know acting like one of the more popular series from the genre isn't that great may seem "cool", but you're still wrong, especially when you point out Pokemon as one of "the good ones" in the next breath.

I had more fun just in the first few hours of Pokemon Diamond than I've had logging countless hours in God knows how many FF games at this point trying to find some redeeming quality.

And put bluntly, the Pokemon games win merely by, well, still resembling games, instead of barely interactive visual novels.

Xerxes

03-01-2009, 01:28 PM

Golden Sun on GBA. Plays in your DS at that.

carnage11

03-01-2009, 02:45 PM

Don't have any portables at the moment. I did stop and grab Lost Odyssey today. 4 discs?! Wow....well I have high hopes for it.

I've barely put 2 hours into Persona 4, but yeah, I'm liking it so far. It's a very interesting and fun game. Though, I haven't even gotten into any kind of fight or battle yet.

@Banacek - Dude, I picked up a slim line PS2 when my old, big clunky PS2 finally died. I grabbed it off of Ebay with 14 games for $200. The games alone were worth that. There were some good games in there that I didn't have. Check Ebay or maybe even Craig's List. You can find PS2s for pretty cheap now a days, and there's such a HUGE library for it that you can't really call yourself a gamer unless you own a PS2.

Spigot

03-01-2009, 03:08 PM

carnage11

03-01-2009, 04:06 PM

P4 is tied with Lost Odyssey for my favourite JRPG for last year. It does take a while to get going though. You'll spend the first 4-5 hours with the game laying the groundwork for the story and some of the systems. I was still getting 'help' dialogue windows 20 hours into it... Not that they were really needed, but that just shows how long it takes for most of the systems to be introduced.

Good, because I'm looking for a game that I can really sink my teeth into and play for a while. Games like Oblivion, Fallout 3, GTA4, I've put on average 90-100 hours into each. Though, I'm not sure if I want to start LO right away, or wait until I'm finished with P4 first. I don't like playing multiple games at one time.

evilgoodwin

03-01-2009, 04:46 PM

Good, because I'm looking for a game that I can really sink my teeth into and play for a while. Games like Oblivion, Fallout 3, GTA4, I've put on average 90-100 hours into each. Though, I'm not sure if I want to start LO right away, or wait until I'm finished with P4 first. I don't like playing multiple games at one time.

That's the thing that sucks with jRPG's. If you start on one, then take too long a break from it, you might forget exactly what the hell you were supposed to be doing. I remember booting up an old save from Wild Arms 2 after about 18 months of not playing due to moving, starting school, and not having an actual copy until I saw it for sale and realized that I hadn't finished it.

....had no idea what was going on. Just saved outside some tower next to my flying thing. Vaguely remembered having to go through the towers, but didn't know where the others were, if I'd gone through them all, if I'd gone through the one I was in front of.... Just ended up scrapping the game.

...so yeah. Don't take too long a break from them or you might have to start over for clarity's sake.

Oh, and FF gets brought up because it's a well-known jRPG series. Can't stop it, so if you're really adamant on not playing it, just try to ignore it. It's inevitable in every jRPG discussion that it's brought up, so yeah. I love it though :)

LongStepMantis

03-01-2009, 05:12 PM

That's the thing that sucks with jRPG's. If you start on one, then take too long a break from it, you might forget exactly what the hell you were supposed to be doing. I remember booting up an old save from Wild Arms 2 after about 18 months of not playing due to moving, starting school, and not having an actual copy until I saw it for sale and realized that I hadn't finished it.

....had no idea what was going on. Just saved outside some tower next to my flying thing. Vaguely remembered having to go through the towers, but didn't know where the others were, if I'd gone through them all, if I'd gone through the one I was in front of.... Just ended up scrapping the game.

...so yeah. Don't take too long a break from them or you might have to start over for clarity's sake.

Oh, and FF gets brought up because it's a well-known jRPG series. Can't stop it, so if you're really adamant on not playing it, just try to ignore it. It's inevitable in every jRPG discussion that it's brought up, so yeah. I love it though :)

That always happened to me. Especially on older systems before the PS eras.
Like loading a saved game from a NES or even most SNES RPGs and figure out what to do without a walkthrough. It's either futile or eventually you'll get lucky after you just start visiting every place you find, hoping to trigger some sort of cutscene or dialogue that lets you know you're in the right place.

They're better about it now, but a some of them still suffer from this. All RPGs need something that gives you at least a general idea of what to do, even as simple as a status screen entry that just says something like Quest or Log or Journal, whatever, that could just tell you generic, non hand-holding information like "So and so asked us to check out the sewers in X city." You'd know who to ask for more info and where you are supposed to be headed. Or even just half of that with "So and so wants us to do something for him" so you would at least know who to talk to.

evilgoodwin

03-01-2009, 05:29 PM

That always happened to me. Especially on older systems before the PS eras.
Like loading a saved game from a NES or even most SNES RPGs and figure out what to do without a walkthrough. It's either futile or eventually you'll get lucky after you just start visiting every place you find, hoping to trigger some sort of cutscene or dialogue that lets you know you're in the right place.

They're better about it now, but a some of them still suffer from this. All RPGs need something that gives you at least a general idea of what to do, even as simple as a status screen entry that just says something like Quest or Log or Journal, whatever, that could just tell you generic, non hand-holding information like "So and so asked us to check out the sewers in X city." You'd know who to ask for more info and where you are supposed to be headed. Or even just half of that with "So and so wants us to do something for him" so you would at least know who to talk to.

I think Tales of Symphonia had a journal that told you what you just did and where you were going, and I KNOW I've played a game that gave me a brief synopsis of what I was doing after loading a save. I just can't remember what it was. But it's a nice feature.

J Arcane

03-01-2009, 05:47 PM

I think Tales of Symphonia had a journal that told you what you just did and where you were going, and I KNOW I've played a game that gave me a brief synopsis of what I was doing after loading a save. I just can't remember what it was. But it's a nice feature.
The Pokemon games have done this since at least Fire Red/Leaf Green. In FR/LG it was actually like a little cut scene even, showing you a replay of the last 5 recent events before you saved.

Purple Santa

03-01-2009, 06:06 PM

I really need to get a PS2 and try these Persona games. I just don't feel like spending money for a PS2 again.
It's worth getting a PS2 for the Persona series. If you really are a fan of JRPGs then you owe it to yourself to play P3&4.

I've barely put 2 hours into Persona 4, but yeah, I'm liking it so far. It's a very interesting and fun game. Though, I haven't even gotten into any kind of fight or battle yet.

I think this might be a trademark of the Persona series. When I started P3, it took me about 2 hours before I saw my first real battle. I didn't even mind that it took that long...but it was weird not doing the usual leveling up from the get go.

Spigot

03-01-2009, 07:45 PM

I think Tales of Symphonia had a journal that told you what you just did and where you were going, and I KNOW I've played a game that gave me a brief synopsis of what I was doing after loading a save. I just can't remember what it was. But it's a nice feature.Rogue Galaxy had that feature where it would give you a little recap after you load up a save.

I actually have a pretty decent ability to pick up a game long after I have put it down and be able to get right back into things. That said, I really like the games like Rogue Galaxy, Tales of Symphonia and others (the FFIV remake on DS had a nice, gentle hint system if you got stuck or forgot the next plot point) that help you remember what was going on when you got distracted the last time.

Stoke

03-01-2009, 07:46 PM

Spigot

03-01-2009, 07:53 PM

Stoke

03-01-2009, 07:58 PM

I couldn't tell ya. It looked nice on my HDTV upscaled on the PS3 over HDMI. It looks fine on my SDTV over S-Video...

Glad to see you took the plunge though. If some of the quirks of P3 bother you, be assured that most of the annoying parts of P3 were altered in P4 and that makes the game a lot less of a pain to play. That said, P3 had a much quirkier plot and social link system.

Yeah, I decided to go with P3 because it was 1. Cheaper and 2. Because of Gorvi's post about P4 being more refined. I want to save the best for last so if I like it I don't have to worry about coming back to a "lesser" game.

Rakael

03-01-2009, 08:00 PM

I really need to pick up another PS2, especially since my 360 was stolen. I just can't justify the price on another 360 right now, especially since I got myself a bangin' new desktop to replace my stolen laptop. The PS2 though, I could afford and thoroughly enjoy with that huge backlog of (cheap!) games.

Gorvi

03-01-2009, 08:10 PM

Thanks to this thread I finally picked up P3. I've been staying away from the series because the idea of going to school in a game didn't sound appealing but you guys have cracked me. It will be a pain dragging out the PS2 again though. Anyone know how this looks on a HDTV through normal composite cables?
Through composite? Ewww...... Nothing looks good over composite even on an SDTV, I can't imagine what that would look like on an HDTV. I'm normally playing it on my PS3, but even on my PS2 on an SDTV via Componant the game looks quite nice.

I'd just suggest springing for some componant cables, or at the very least S-Video, they really do make all the difference.

Stoke

03-01-2009, 08:34 PM

Through composite? Ewww...... Nothing looks good over composite even on an SDTV, I can't imagine what that would look like on an HDTV. I'm normally playing it on my PS3, but even on my PS2 on an SDTV via Componant the game looks quite nice.

I'd just suggest springing for some componant cables, or at the very least S-Video, they really do make all the difference.

Yeah, composite's all I have. It is more than 5 years old after all. :(

I don't know if I'm willing to spring for S-video cables since it's just one game. I guess if it's really bad I'll change my mind though. Component isn't really an option since my 360 doesn't have HDMI and the jaggies would actually have to start cutting me before I go through the trouble of swapping out the cables all the time. This'll be the first time I hook up my PS2 since I bought an HDTV though so again, the visuals could be very persuasive.

LiquidRain

03-01-2009, 09:46 PM

Spigot

03-01-2009, 09:55 PM

Kiddie anime cartoons, eh? Are we talking high quality like Pokemon or low brow fare like Bakugan? :)

I'll definately rent SO4 just to take it for a spin but I was so let down by SO3 that I think I'll invest the time I'd put into SO4 and try to finish up Xenosaga 2 & 3...

BLeeP

03-01-2009, 09:59 PM

Ugh, 7 hours in, I give up.

Everyone stay far away from Star Ocean 4. Terrible. Broken battle system in my opinion (not nearly as fun as Tales, not nearly as manageable, awesome, and strategic as Grandia, a horrible camera system, no way to queue events to others in your party, blah blah blah...) and story direction and voice acting directly aimed at people who still watch kiddie anime cartoons for fun. Unbearable, absolutely unbearable. Augh. Even the field camera stinks to high hell, I'm constantly fighting it.

I'm five hours in and loving it. To each their own, though.

I do agree about the field camera, but it is worlds better than the one in Star Ocean 3, and if I'm having problems I just click the stick in and it goes back to where I need it. Battle system is great, though, and I love the invention and item creation stuff ^_^. Voice acting is definitely par for the course, and the story hasn't even begun yet (and I'm not expecting much, really), but the games systems are so fun that none of it really bugs me.

Banacek

03-01-2009, 10:05 PM

I'm five hours in and loving it. To each their own, though.

I do agree about the field camera, but it is worlds better than the one in Star Ocean 3, and if I'm having problems I just click the stick in and it goes back to where I need it. Battle system is great, though, and I love the invention and item creation stuff ^_^. Voice acting is definitely par for the course, and the story hasn't even begun yet (and I'm not expecting much, really), but the games systems are so fun that none of it really bugs me.

So it's better then the lizard-raping simulator that was Star Ocean 3? :)

Seriously though, there is no way I'd pay full price for a Star Ocean game again. SO3 was one of the worst gaming experiences I've had. I was so mad I paid for that game.

evilgoodwin

03-01-2009, 10:09 PM

So it's better then the lizard-raping simulator that was Star Ocean 3? :)

Seriously though, there is no way I'd pay full price for a Star Ocean game again. SO3 was one of the worst gaming experiences I've had. I was so mad I paid for that game.

I tried to play through it 3 times. I tried to like it, and got really pulled into the story.

Then, at the same part every time, all of my characters would just flee the monsters in battle. They'd have full health and magic, but would just run along the edges as far away from the mobs as possible, leaving me to be beaten to death while they cried in the corner. I have no idea why, or how this started happening, but it would cause me to stop playing. I probably would have finished this game the month it came out, now it's doomed to "Maybe I'll start it again one day."

BLeeP

03-01-2009, 10:15 PM

I didn't play Star Ocean 3 further than the first town or two, but I've already enjoyed 4 a great deal more. It has a long way to go before it lives up to 2, but the battle system is already at least on par.

Spigot

03-01-2009, 10:24 PM

I really tried to like SO3 but I got so fed up with that stupid fantasy planet you ended up on and then they had the gall to let me get off after an insanely long trudge around the place only to dump me right back on it.

I read about what happens at the end of SO3 and I actually would have enjoyed that more than the banality of wandering around the stupid fantasy planet for another 10 minutes.

Which makes me think I really need to fire up Rogue Galaxy again and finish it up before I even think of starting Star Ocean 4... Rogue Galaxy or the last two Xenosaga games...

Virtual Machine

03-01-2009, 10:30 PM

I'm about 2 hours into Star Ocean 4 and actually kind of enjoying it. I'm far from a Star Ocean veteran though. 3 still sits on my shelf, sealed.

Gorvi

03-02-2009, 06:22 AM

Which makes me think I really need to fire up Rogue Galaxy again and finish it up before I even think of starting Star Ocean 4... Rogue Galaxy or the last two Xenosaga games...
Do it! How far did you get in RG anyway?

Spigot

03-02-2009, 06:44 AM

Do it! How far did you get in RG anyway?I remember a factory. A really long, really cut-and-paste factory.

You know what? I think Rogue Galaxy will be the next JRPG on my consoles once I either tire of Fallout 3, beat Valkyria Chronicles or beat Yakuza. I need to do one of those three things first...

Gorvi

03-02-2009, 06:46 AM

I remember a factory. A really long, really cut-and-paste factory.

You know what? I think Rogue Galaxy will be the next JRPG on my consoles once I either tire of Fallout 3, beat Valkyria Chronicles or beat Yakuza. I need to do one of those three things first...
Well, sadly, cut and paste is the level design model for RG, it's the biggest flaw with the game. I believe you're still pretty early on, that's either right before or right after you get the robot in your party.

Spigot

03-02-2009, 06:55 AM

Well, sadly, cut and paste is the level design model for RG, it's the biggest flaw with the game. I believe you're still pretty early on, that's either right before or right after you get the robot in your party.Yeah, I know it's rather early in the game. It's after you get off of the jungle planet and end up on a sufficiently high-tech place. I think I might have actually finished the factory before I stopped playing, but I honestly can't remember as it's probably been pushing 2 years now since I played it last.

And it's a Level 5 game. As much as I love those guys, I don't think I've played a dungeon-crawlery game by them that DIDN'T have cut & paste level design to the dungeons. I don't usually mind that in jungles or whatever, but in a factory where everything looks the same? Yerk.

Actually, now that I think about it, I think I got off of that planet and was in some Mining planet/asteroid place. Man, now I REALLY need to start working on the game again.

Gorvi

03-02-2009, 07:01 AM

Yeah, I know it's rather early in the game. It's after you get off of the jungle planet and end up on a sufficiently high-tech place. I think I might have actually finished the factory before I stopped playing, but I honestly can't remember as it's probably been pushing 2 years now since I played it last.

And it's a Level 5 game. As much as I love those guys, I don't think I've played a dungeon-crawlery game by them that DIDN'T have cut & paste level design to the dungeons. I don't usually mind that in jungles or whatever, but in a factory where everything looks the same? Yerk.
Well, at least in Dark Cloud they were randomly generated, so it made sense, but in RG, so far as I know, they're set levels, so it's really just lazy design.
Actually, now that I think about it, I think I got off of that planet and was in some Mining planet/asteroid place. Man, now I REALLY need to start working on the game again.
Ahh, ok. You stopped where I took a break at first, then. The story really starts to drag there. It does pick up again, though, so there is that to look forward to.

torrefaction

03-02-2009, 08:43 AM

lol. I love how wrong J Arcane usually is.

Let's make it clear...Final Fantasy is significantly more refined, and by far the better choice for new-comers to the genre.

The other games are NOT bad, but Final Fantasy IS great. Some people have tired of some of the core concepts over the years (Which I don't get.) But it's the only series that fundamentally changes things about the gameplay iteration after iteration.

Also, whoever told you to play Xenosaga doesn't actually want you to play any games.

LiquidRain

03-02-2009, 09:58 AM

Kiddie anime cartoons, eh? Are we talking high quality like Pokemon or low brow fare like Bakugan? :)
I don't know if there's a difference, so I'll assume this is sarcasm and there *is* no difference. :)

"Hee hee we get to go on a big adventure and this is great! *turns around* ahem, I mean uh *voice drops 5 octaves* I ACCEPT THIS MISSION, SIR."

auuuuurgugugueruarhgu

Battle system is great, though.
I just have a hard time understanding this opinion. Did you play Grandia 3? (equally horrible cutscenes and story, but the battle system was light years beyond Star Ocean) How about Vesperia? (which, while simpler, was at least a whole lot more fun and understandable) In my opinion, SO4 can't come close in depth or just plain fun-to-play values to those.

The biggest, absolute biggest problem I have with SO4 is: why can I not select my target and why do I have to constantly swing the damned camera to find one. I shouldn't have to constantly check radar to make sure I move in the right direction. (if you suggest "press A to make him run to the target", well, you should know better - I've tried that only to have Edge ignore a guy next to him to run across the battlefield to somebody else) Then there's the lack of ability to queue commands to other party members, which really pisses me off. I don't care if other members are currently busy, as long as they do what I want them to after they're done their move. Augh.

Don't even suggest full control of all 4 characters. In my opinion that's not fun, that's tedious, boring work.

I'd love to know what I'm missing here, because I really would like to get my 60 bucks worth.

e: don't get me started on the total lack of control you have over your character when your enemy is air-born.

So it's better then the lizard-raping simulator that was Star Ocean 3? :)

Seriously though, there is no way I'd pay full price for a Star Ocean game again. SO3 was one of the worst gaming experiences I've had. I was so mad I paid for that game.
I never touched or bought SO3, only SO2. Reviews and talk of the game led me to believe this was possibly of SO2 calibre, or at least a moderately good RPG, which is why I picked it up. I just disagree.

Spigot

03-02-2009, 12:00 PM

I just traded in my SFIV rental for a SOIV rental instead. I've only done the battle simulator and watched the opening cinematics, so we'll see how it goes. Part of me really thinks the game has potential but as much as I'm resilient to a lot of the anime/JRPG cliches, Liquidrain's criticisms of the dialogue are pretty spot on so far. I wish they'd just include the Japanese language tracks in some of these games if they're not going to spend the extra bucks to do a good dub to English.

I've got the game for a week and I'll try to put in a few hours over the next few days to at least get a good flavour of the game. It hasn't offended my sensibilities or anything, but I'm feeling glad that I didn't bother to use my store credit to purchase it. I've got too much on my plate to really get into the game.

Gorvi: Yeah, the story was dragging a bit there. I think I also got my 360 right around the time I got to that spot, at which point almost all of my PS2 JRPG playing came to an abrupt halt for some time...

torrefaction: I hope you weren't seeing my chatter about Xenosaga as a recommendation for someone just starting into the genre. I like the games but I know it takes a very particular person to enjoy them for what they are :)

torrefaction

03-02-2009, 01:41 PM

torrefaction: I hope you weren't seeing my chatter about Xenosaga as a recommendation for someone just starting into the genre. I like the games but I know it takes a very particular person to enjoy them for what they are :)

A type of person who likes to watch cutscenes for hours on end? ;)

Gorvi

03-02-2009, 01:43 PM

A type of person who likes to watch cutscenes for hours on end? ;)
Me? :)

Yeah, I liked those, those games, but the second was a struggle to get through.

Spigot

03-02-2009, 01:43 PM

A type of person who likes to watch cutscenes for hours on end? ;)Hey, I'm proud of my cutscene watching history. It's like they distilled the genre to its essence and got rid of all the pesky gameplay that gets in the way of the next cutscene :)

Widgetcraft

03-02-2009, 01:57 PM

Also, whoever told you to play Xenosaga doesn't actually want you to play any games.

I would go so far as to say that they don't want you to live. Five hours into the first cutscene you're likely to just keel over from boredom and bad-game syndrome.

Xydarc

03-02-2009, 02:30 PM

From about FFII until FFX, pretty much every damn one of them uses the same combat system, the same spell lists, just one new additional new gimmick subsystem to learn for each game.

In FFX, they dropped the ATB portion, but the remainder of the combat system was almost identical in function.

In FFXI obviously, things changed, somewhat, to accommodate the MMO-ness, and that then got combined with a bastardized standard FF combat system for FFXII.

Besides the combat system, what else have you got? An overwrought story full of unlikeable characters, and a lot of grindy random battles over and over again.

I think FFXII was the first game in the series that actually felt genuinely different, and that was only because, as mentioned, it's basically just a hacked offline MMO.
Wait, what? You're complaining about the FF series not changing it's battle system very often, when every single Pokemon game plays the same? In addition, each Pokemon game combo shares the exact same Pokemon, except for, what...5 or 6 of the lil bastards? Yeah, Pokemon is a hallmark of gameplay and character differentiation.

Hello kettle, there's a pot I'd like you to meet.:p

Back on topic, the 3 Xenogears games are quite good.

J Arcane

03-02-2009, 02:44 PM

Wait, what? You're complaining about the FF series not changing it's battle system very often, when every single Pokemon game plays the same? In addition, each Pokemon game combo shares the exact same Pokemon, except for, what...5 or 6 of the lil bastards? Yeah, Pokemon is a hallmark of gameplay and character differentiation.

Hello kettle, there's a pot I'd like you to meet.:p

Back on topic, the 3 Xenogears games are quite good.
Well, but Pokemon's combat system is actually good, so there's that. ;) Don't fix what ain't broke and all, which as far as I'm concerned isn't a valid excuse for FF because the ATB system sucks balls.

And the system has changed from game to game, just in specifics, not in the general mechanics.

And as far as the number of new creatures, in it's life span so far the series has expanded from the original 151 to almost 500. I'd say that's a lot fucking more than "5 or 6 per game".

And given this thread just got done complaining about the sameness of FF's monster list from game to game, I could just as easily start throwing around cliches about cooking vessels as well.

Spigot

03-02-2009, 02:45 PM

You mean Xenosaga games...

And yeah, it's funny to see someone complaining about how the FF series never changes while championing the wide variety of systems in the Pokemon games...

J Arcane

03-02-2009, 02:45 PM

You mean Xenosaga games...

And yeah, it's funny to see someone complaining about how the FF series never changes while championing the wide variety of systems in the Pokemon games...
You're putting words in my mouth I'd never said.

Stop that. It's dishonest.

carnage11

03-02-2009, 02:47 PM

Widgetcraft

03-02-2009, 02:47 PM

Well, but Pokemon's combat system is actually good, so there's that. ;)

==========
Final Fantasy
==========
Fight
Magic
Defend
Item

==========
Pokemon
==========
Fight
Ability
Defend
Item

Don't fix what ain't broke and all, which as far as I'm concerned isn't a valid excuse for FF because the ATB system sucks balls.

First: ATB isn't in all of the games. Hell, it isn't even in the newest iteration of the main series.

Second: All of the games with ATB have the option to just go to turn-based gameplay.

Spigot

03-02-2009, 02:48 PM

You're putting words in my mouth I'd never said.

Stop that. It's dishonest.
Oh, pish posh. You're splitting hairs at this point.

J Arcane

03-02-2009, 02:51 PM

First: ATB isn't in all of the games. Hell, it isn't even in the newest iteration of the main series.

I'm aware of that, and already mentioned it's lack of presence in FFX. Thanks for informing me of shit I already know.

Second: All of the games with ATB have the option to just go to turn-based gameplay.

This is a lie. The only option in FF6/FF7 that made it remotely resemble a turn based game is the one that telsl it to pause the ATB timers when in a sub-menu. That's not really all that "turn-based" to me, and it doesn't fix the fundamental flaw of the ATB system, which is that sitting there waiting for those fucking meters to fill up before you can do anything is fucking boring as shit, and endemic of the "don't play the game, watch it" philosophy that makes the series so fucking dull.

Panthera

03-02-2009, 02:55 PM

I have to admit, I'm amazed by how J Arcane can be so frequently factually wrong. It must take effort to keep that up.

J Arcane

03-02-2009, 02:57 PM

I have to admit, I'm amazed by how J Arcane can be so frequently factually wrong. It must take effort to keep that up.
Yeah, you know what? Go fuck yourselves, the lot of you.

I'm not here to be any one's punching bag, so have fun with your circle jerk.

Chris_D

03-02-2009, 03:01 PM

Ouch.... oh by the way, did I already mention how great Tales of Vesperia is? ;)

Also, Suikoden 2 PS1 is my favourite JRPG, but it's hard to get these days. Hopefully it will come out on the PSN store at least (Suikoden 1 is already out I believe).

Widgetcraft

03-02-2009, 03:19 PM

This is a lie. The only option in FF6/FF7 that made it remotely resemble a turn based game is the one that telsl it to pause the ATB timers when in a sub-menu. That's not really all that "turn-based" to me, and it doesn't fix the fundamental flaw of the ATB system, which is that sitting there waiting for those fucking meters to fill up before you can do anything is fucking boring as shit, and endemic of the "don't play the game, watch it" philosophy that makes the series so fucking dull.

Tell it go to to Wait mode for the ATB, and then crank the battle speed. There you go, enjoy your turn-based gameplay. I'm playing through FF7 right now with the battle speed cranked all the way, and there is virtually no down time.

LongStepMantis

03-02-2009, 03:28 PM

I asked about the Xenogears, because I had a friend that use to play them and he was pretty fanatical. However, hearing about how they are just long winded cut scenes, I probably wouldn't like them. I'm glad I picked the games that I did though, as I'm having a lot of fun with them now. Thanks to those that recommended them. Lost Odyssey I fucked with a little last night, but I think I'm going to shelf it until I can devote more time and when I'm done with P4. Persona is excellent so far, very involved story and I'm enjoying the characters. It even had me laughing quite a bit last night. I did have one question though, maybe I'm not far enough into it or just don't know how jRPGs run, but are you supposed to just spam the same attack over and over again? That's pretty much what I've been doing. It seems to work fine, but I didn't know if that's how it should be or not. Most other RPGs I've played you can kind of switch it up a bit. Is this something to be expected from jRPGs? I noticed this in LO as well, just spam over and over and over the same attack until the enemy was dead. Every now and then I'll guard or just throw a weak attack but for the most part I just use the same special attack all the time.

That depends on the title. I'm going purely off memory here, but I seem to recall most rpgs give you a couple basic options, maybe even only one at first. They never stay that way though.

Take the older Persona 2 for instance. When the game starts you can't do shit except attack, more or less. It isn't until you start getting into the Personas aspects that you start getting magic and special attacks/combos. This will continue to build up and up until you reach a point where you feel like you have too many attack options, with multiple Personas set aside for each character, and so on.. How far are you into the game, time wise?

Xydarc

03-02-2009, 04:12 PM

Well, but Pokemon's combat system is actually good, so there's that. ;) Don't fix what ain't broke and all, which as far as I'm concerned isn't a valid excuse for FF because the ATB system sucks balls.

And the system has changed from game to game, just in specifics, not in the general mechanics.

And as far as the number of new creatures, in it's life span so far the series has expanded from the original 151 to almost 500. I'd say that's a lot fucking more than "5 or 6 per game".

And given this thread just got done complaining about the sameness of FF's monster list from game to game, I could just as easily start throwing around cliches about cooking vessels as well.
You miss my point. Pokemon Palladium and Pokemon Tungsten will share the same 300 Pokemon, while Palladium will have 5 or 6 that Tungsten won't; Tungsten will then have 5 or 6 that Palladium won't. It's an awesome money grab, but boy there are a lot of the lil bastards that are awfully similar to each other.

Regardless, it's the same "rock-paper-scissors" gameplay since Pokemon began. At least FF has changed it up a bit with each game.

Xydarc

03-02-2009, 04:18 PM

I asked about the Xenogears, because I had a friend that use to play them and he was pretty fanatical. However, hearing about how they are just long winded cut scenes, I probably wouldn't like them. I'm glad I picked the games that I did though, as I'm having a lot of fun with them now. Thanks to those that recommended them. Lost Odyssey I fucked with a little last night, but I think I'm going to shelf it until I can devote more time and when I'm done with P4. Persona is excellent so far, very involved story and I'm enjoying the characters. It even had me laughing quite a bit last night. I did have one question though, maybe I'm not far enough into it or just don't know how jRPGs run, but are you supposed to just spam the same attack over and over again? That's pretty much what I've been doing. It seems to work fine, but I didn't know if that's how it should be or not. Most other RPGs I've played you can kind of switch it up a bit. Is this something to be expected from jRPGs? I noticed this in LO as well, just spam over and over and over the same attack until the enemy was dead. Every now and then I'll guard or just throw a weak attack but for the most part I just use the same special attack all the time.
Depends on the battle system. Many JRPG battle systems are element based. For example, if you are spamming a fire-based attack against a fire-based monster (depending on the battle system), the attack may be negated or may even heal the monster. Another example is if you use a fire-based attack on an ice-based monster, you may do double-damage to that monster.

Thanks Spigot, I did mean the Xenosaga games. Right now, the PS2 is still the place for JRPGs. If you can find it, Dark Cloud 2 is a fun one...although I may have mentioned it already. It has a fun Sim City aspect to it.

Purple Santa

03-02-2009, 04:20 PM

Also, Suikoden 2 PS1 is my favourite JRPG, but it's hard to get these days. Hopefully it will come out on the PSN store at least (Suikoden 1 is already out I believe).

I was just reading in Play magazine that Suikoden 2 should be out by now in the PSN store. Is this suppose to be coming to the PSN store? I hadn't heard about the second one. Anyone know?

Spigot

03-02-2009, 05:27 PM

Hee hee. We broke J Arcane.

And I'll heartily recommend Dark Cloud 2. Dark Cloud was a good start but Level 5 really seemed to come into their own with DC2. My only gripe is that both of the Dark Cloud games suffered from the syndrome where you spend the entire game working with one particular kind of weapon only to get to the end of the game and find that you need to have the other type of weapon buffed up to the hilt as well. I put both games down when I reached the end boss because I would have had to grind my brains out to level up the secondary weapons.

Outside of that though, I loved the games.

Suikoden 1 is out on the PSN store. My copy of Suikoden 2 had a giant circular scratch in the disc that prevented me from progressing once I reached the 25-30 hour mark. Sigh. It's a shame. I played it after beating Suikoden 3 and really enjoyed both.

Xydarc

03-02-2009, 09:24 PM

carnage11

03-02-2009, 09:45 PM

That depends on the title. I'm going purely off memory here, but I seem to recall most rpgs give you a couple basic options, maybe even only one at first. They never stay that way though.

Take the older Persona 2 for instance. When the game starts you can't do shit except attack, more or less. It isn't until you start getting into the Personas aspects that you start getting magic and special attacks/combos. This will continue to build up and up until you reach a point where you feel like you have too many attack options, with multiple Personas set aside for each character, and so on.. How far are you into the game, time wise?

I just received my first Persona, and I believe my little buddy has his now too. So.....not very far.:p I'm glad to hear that you get most stuff later on. I thought I'd really get bored if I have to see the same little cut scene of him doing the same move for the entire game.

In LO, I basically played through the intro, got to my first save spot and then quit, cause I wanna hold off on that until I get through Persona, but while I was fighting the big robot thing it seemed like it took forever to do anything and he just kept killing me, then I realized you had to go back and forth between the arms to get them to disable their defense...lol...it was fun though. I think I'm gonna like that game.

As far as Final Fantasy goes......I just think it's gay....that's all. lol!

I understand it's hard to accept the fact of someone not liking something you love so much, but just please get over it already. You're not gonna change my mind.

As far as the derailment of the thread goes.....well I don't care anymore cause I got what I wanted from this thread anyways, so continue your argument about Final Fantasy, none of which I understand because I've never played.;)

Spigot

03-02-2009, 09:50 PM

I understand it's hard to accept the fact of someone not liking something you love so much, but just please get over it already. You're not gonna change my mind.

...so continue your argument about Final Fantasy, none of which I understand because I've never played.;)Sigh. I know I'm just talking for the sake of hearing myself talk, but we're not upset about you not liking Final Fantasy. You've said yourself that you've never played them, hence you can't possibly not like them. For all you know you might love them. You're just being contrarian.

We're more upset that you've decided to wall yourself away from one of the pillars of the genre without even taking any of the games in the series for a spin to see whether you'd like it or not. It would be one thing if you said, "I've tried them and don't like them. I need something else!" We'd probably have kept the moaning and kvetching to a minimum (outside of the Pokemon vs. FF debate).

But at least you're playing some good games instead. I'd be upset if you decided to start your JRPG journey with something like Enchanted Arms or Infinite Undiscovery, which take someone with really low standards (me) to enjoy to any degree :)

mister slim

03-02-2009, 10:06 PM

And it's a Level 5 game. As much as I love those guys, I don't think I've played a dungeon-crawlery game by them that DIDN'T have cut & paste level design to the dungeons. I don't usually mind that in jungles or whatever, but in a factory where everything looks the same? Yerk.

For me it wasn't so much the levels that bothered me (though they certainly didn't fill me with enthusiasm) but the sloppy enemy placement. It seemed like the first time you came to a level each battle would be an annoying pain in the ass until you leveled a couple of times, there would be a brief period where the battles were balanced enough to be fun, and then they were way too easy for the rest of that area. Then you'd go on to another area and it would repeat.

Chris_D

03-02-2009, 10:14 PM

As far as Final Fantasy goes......I just think it's gay....that's all. lol!

I understand it's hard to accept the fact of someone not liking something you love so much, but just please get over it already. You're not gonna change my mind.

You got it a little wrong.. In fact I don't see too many obsessed FF fans in this thread. Most of us have favourites like Persona, Suikoden, Dragonquest, Xenogears/saga, among others. However, we know that many of the Final Fantasy games (particularly in the main series) are actually very good. If you choose to pass on that it's your own choice of course. But if you're looking for obsessed FF crazies you're in the wrong place.

mister slim

03-02-2009, 10:30 PM

Consider yourselves lucky. I just deleted a multi-paragraph treatise on the problems of designing JRPG difficulty and how that devalues player decision-making.

Banacek

03-02-2009, 10:32 PM

But if you're looking for obsessed FF crazies you're in the wrong place.

Hey, Gorvi, Spigot, Troggles and I are still here... :)

Troggles

03-02-2009, 10:33 PM

Hey, Gorvi, Spigot and I are still here... :)

Don't leave me out! The FF games are pretty much the only jRPGs I play to completion. (I unfortunately have a bad habit of not finishing my games.)

evilgoodwin

03-02-2009, 10:43 PM

I so wish I had time to spend on a jRPG again.

Stupid responsibility. As soon as I get really into one, I always get pulled away and never have time to sit down and mess with it again until a few weeks later. Bah.

Banacek

03-02-2009, 10:44 PM

Consider yourselves lucky. I just deleted a multi-paragraph treatise on the problems of designing JRPG difficulty and how that devalues player decision-making.

Why? I would have read it. It's a very interesting topic. I think that Oblivion proved that auto-leveling enemies is just a bad idea, but maybe it's not a total bad idea?

You have to reward players for grinding at some point. If the game is consistently too difficult with no way for the player to improve his team then players are just going to stop playing the game. On the other hand, making the game too easy makes the game unrewarding. I personally like games that you can "grind with a purpose". FFXII Hunts are a perfect example of that. You didn't have to do them, but they make the game more enjoyable to play. Where FFXII failed was the endgame, since if you played too long your characters were all the same person. You were punished for leveling too much.

I think the last game I played that hit it perfectly was DQVIII. I think I enjoyed every aspect of that game. I never felt too aggravated while leveling up (ok, so maybe the metal slimes pissed me off a bit). I only really grinded in the game to fight the optional dragon battle.

Troggles

03-02-2009, 10:44 PM

I've been thinking of picking up either Suikoden or Wild Arms from the PSN Store. Can anyone chime in on what the better choice would be?

Banacek

03-02-2009, 10:45 PM

Don't leave me out! The FF games are pretty much the only jRPGs I play to completion. (I unfortunately have a bad habit of not finishing my games.)

Fixed it :)

carnage11

03-02-2009, 10:53 PM

Sigh. I know I'm just talking for the sake of hearing myself talk, but we're not upset about you not liking Final Fantasy. You've said yourself that you've never played them, hence you can't possibly not like them. For all you know you might love them. You're just being contrarian.

We're more upset that you've decided to wall yourself away from one of the pillars of the genre without even taking any of the games in the series for a spin to see whether you'd like it or not. It would be one thing if you said, "I've tried them and don't like them. I need something else!" We'd probably have kept the moaning and kvetching to a minimum (outside of the Pokemon vs. FF debate).

But at least you're playing some good games instead. I'd be upset if you decided to start your JRPG journey with something like Enchanted Arms or Infinite Undiscovery, which take someone with really low standards (me) to enjoy to any degree :)

Now wait a second, don't get it twisted. I myself have never played a Final Fantasy game, but that isn't to say that I haven't watched enough of my friends playing them to say that I don't have a full understanding of what the games are and why I don't like them. If I summed up all the hours I've spent watching friends playing the games, I probably could have at least one full play through myself. Trust me when I say, I know exactly what I'm missing.;)

Chris_D

03-02-2009, 10:54 PM

I've been thinking of picking up either Suikoden or Wild Arms from the PSN Store. Can anyone chime in on what the better choice would be?

Suikoden by a mile I would say.

Spigot

03-02-2009, 11:10 PM

I've been thinking of picking up either Suikoden or Wild Arms from the PSN Store. Can anyone chime in on what the better choice would be?I've always enjoyed the Suikoden games more than Wild Arms. In that I actually beat Suikoden 3 and came bloody close with Suikoden 2, whereas I've never made it past about the 10-15 hour mark with a Wild Arms game.

Troggles

03-02-2009, 11:12 PM

I was leaning toward Suikoden anyway. I have had Wild Arms 3 for a long time now and I just haven't played it. I had a knack for buying cheap jRPGs back in the day.

Spigot

03-02-2009, 11:13 PM

Now wait a second, don't get it twisted. I myself have never played a Final Fantasy game, but that isn't to say that I haven't watched enough of my friends playing them to say that I don't have a full understanding of what the games are and why I don't like them. If I summed up all the hours I've spent watching friends playing the games, I probably could have at least one full play through myself. Trust me when I say, I know exactly what I'm missing.;)Ah, ok. Now that makes more sense. From your previous posts it seemed like you were basically shunning FF games because they were popular.

Now that being said, I wouldn't draw a direct parallel between your watching your friends play a FF game and playing it yourself. Why? Because JRPGs are the most boring genre of game to watch someone else play. Everyone knows that I'm a JRPG nut but you'd have to put a gun to my head to get me to watch someone else play a game in the genre for longer than about 10 minutes.

TheEpicOfTyler

03-02-2009, 11:14 PM

I initially questioned your FF comments because I think that FF games are a great introduction to JRPG's. I can't remember if I played FFVII or Pokemon first, but they were my first exposures to the genre.

I really wanted to like Xenosaga. I was really into the story and I quite enjoyed the cutscenes, but the battle system was slow and stupid IMO. After awhile I just borrowed a game shark from a friend and maxed out my characters so I could just play for the story.

Xenosaga II I again tried to like, but I remember just getting to a point (kind of early on if I remember) where I was just getting killed constantly by the normal encounters and I quit. Would still like to play through them to get the story, I really liked that portion of the games.

Spigot

03-02-2009, 11:18 PM

My favourite part of the Xenosaga games is the in-game encyclopedia. I'm such a whore for lore...

Chris_D

03-02-2009, 11:31 PM

My favourite part of the Xenosaga games is the in-game encyclopedia. I'm such a whore for lore...

A whore for lore? Sorry, but I love that line!

Spigot

03-03-2009, 12:04 AM

A whore for lore? Sorry, but I love that line!As soon as I typed that I knew someone would like it :)

But seriously, I could just sit and read in-game books, encyclopedia, terminals for days. You name it, I'll read it!

It's complete ephemera 90% of the time but it can make me enjoy even the shoddiest game if they've taken the time to craft a universe around the nugget of gameplay in the middle.

TheEpicOfTyler

03-03-2009, 12:08 AM

As soon as I typed that I knew someone would like it :)

But seriously, I could just sit and read in-game books, encyclopedia, terminals for days. You name it, I'll read it!

It's complete ephemera 90% of the time but it can make me enjoy even the shoddiest game if they've taken the time to craft a universe around the nugget of gameplay in the middle.

I'm much the same way. I always love learning about the world that games take place in. I actually get frustrated with games/movies/books that tell little about the rest of the world it takes place in because I always want to know more even though it has nothing to do with what you're presented.

Gorvi

03-03-2009, 06:32 AM

I've been thinking of picking up either Suikoden or Wild Arms from the PSN Store. Can anyone chime in on what the better choice would be?
I'd say neither. ;)

Seriously, Suikoden would probably be the better choice, but there are many, many, many other RPGs that would deserve your time a lot more. Both series improved with later installments, but the first games are both pretty underwhelming. Of course, being downloadable is a great convenience, but if you're looking for PS1 RPG suggestions in general, well, that would almost be another thread all together. :p
I initially questioned your FF comments because I think that FF games are a great introduction to JRPG's. I can't remember if I played FFVII or Pokemon first, but they were my first exposures to the genre.

I really wanted to like Xenosaga. I was really into the story and I quite enjoyed the cutscenes, but the battle system was slow and stupid IMO. After awhile I just borrowed a game shark from a friend and maxed out my characters so I could just play for the story.

Xenosaga II I again tried to like, but I remember just getting to a point (kind of early on if I remember) where I was just getting killed constantly by the normal encounters and I quit. Would still like to play through them to get the story, I really liked that portion of the games.
The battle system in Xenosaga II was just plain broken. It was a pain in the ass to use and just no fun. That, and the last boss cheats it like no other.

I'd say skip Xenosaga II altogether, read a story FAQ, then go straight on to the excellent Xenosaga III. They fixed everything in that game and close out the story arch quite nicely.

Widgetcraft

03-03-2009, 06:57 AM

Both series improved with later installments, but the first games are both pretty underwhelming.

I'm going to go ahead and point out that, despite what Gorvi just said, Suikoden II is one of the most well-thought-of and valuable jRPGs ever released. I also like III quite a bit, though IV is almost universally reviled.

Gorvi

03-03-2009, 07:01 AM

I'm going to go ahead and point out that, despite what Gorvi just said, Suikoden II is one of the most well-thought-of and valuable jRPGs ever released. I also like III quite a bit, though IV is almost universally reviled.
I only meant games in reference to the first game in each series, not the first few games in each series. Just to clarify. :)

Xydarc

03-03-2009, 08:34 AM

I've been thinking of picking up either Suikoden or Wild Arms from the PSN Store. Can anyone chime in on what the better choice would be?
I have both. But Wild Arms is a charming RPG. I admit, it is a lil bit primative. However, I liked the characters and the story. Plus you get to use some pretty cool tools for solving puzzles. I love running around maps dropping bombs and watching them blow up.;)

Troggles

03-03-2009, 10:14 AM

I'd say neither. ;)

Seriously, Suikoden would probably be the better choice, but there are many, many, many other RPGs that would deserve your time a lot more. Both series improved with later installments, but the first games are both pretty underwhelming. Of course, being downloadable is a great convenience, but if you're looking for PS1 RPG suggestions in general, well, that would almost be another thread all together. :p

I know that many other PS1 RPGs are better, but I don't really have that option. I just want to play a good jRPG now for cheap and I doubt I'll find many PS1 RPGs for 6 dollars.

Xydarc

03-03-2009, 12:30 PM

I know that many other PS1 RPGs are better, but I don't really have that option. I just want to play a good jRPG now for cheap and I doubt I'll find many PS1 RPGs for 6 dollars.
If you have a buddy with a PSN account and Wild Arms, ask him if you can log into his PSN and d/l Wild Arms to give it a spin. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

mister slim

03-03-2009, 04:48 PM

Supposedly Suikoden 2 is coming to PSN. We can hope I guess. Also, I noticed Sony is planning to support emulation for non-Sony platforms.

Chris_D

03-04-2009, 05:24 AM

Once Suikoden 2 comes out it'll be about the best ever possible use of $6.

Crowe

03-04-2009, 05:57 AM

First JRPG I played was FFXII and I totally loved it. The story was pretty great and I really enjoyed the combat. I tried to go back and play X and X-2 but the constant loading had turned me off. And the stories haven't really interested me.

I just picked up Persona 3 but I havent had a chance to give it a real go yet.

LongStepMantis

03-04-2009, 11:00 AM

I actually preferred Suikoden 1 to Suikoden 2.

Mostly because you could recruit enemy generals after defeating them as bosses. Also, you could find (Mr.) Crowley, and befitting his name, was just sick at magic use. In most other aspects, 2 was an improvement. The first one just blew me away so much at the time that even with the second being an upgrade, it simply can't top the experience I had with the first. I gave my copy to my friend for the weekend, and he told me he didn't sleep at all until he passed out Sunday morning, game still running. When he woke up on the floor, he picked the controller up and immediately got back to it.

Suikoden is one series that went way downhill after 1 and 2. The later entries all pale in comparison, imo.

torrefaction

03-04-2009, 02:55 PM

Xydarc

03-04-2009, 06:57 PM

FFXII was so different from most JRPG's that I have a hard time even classifying it as one.
It's more like an offline version of FFXI.

EternalGamer

03-05-2009, 01:03 AM

Consider yourselves lucky. I just deleted a multi-paragraph treatise on the problems of designing JRPG difficulty and how that devalues player decision-making.

See, we would have diagreed from the very premise because I don't really value player decision making that much in games. Most of the decisions games have me make are pretty arbitrary and uninteresting anyway. I just want to play around with glorified logic puzzles, enjoy a manufactured sense of discovery when I explore and find things designers intended for me to find, and mash buttons to test my reflexes all while pretty pictures flash on the screen. And I want all this to be a carefully scripted and well designed experience.

I don't care about emergent gameplay in open worlds, at least not right now when it simply means blander experiences than the ones you can get when developers fake it.

mister slim

03-05-2009, 01:11 AM

I think I'll have to try and reconstruct that post tomorrow, when I'm awake. It wasn't concerned with emergent open-world experiences. I was unpacking why it is that, as Carnage noted and asked about, most JRPG combat is a series of trivial 'decisions'.

Spigot

03-05-2009, 04:57 AM

And for the first time in a while, I completely agree with Eternal Gamer when it comes to JRPGs. Well said, my friend (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOfM7WB1ya4).

Gorvi

03-05-2009, 06:16 AM

I like all of what EG stated, but I like having some out of the way stuff to find as well. Like those chests you could find in Dragon Quest VIII if you went off the beaten path looking around for stuff or the way you could wander into places you had no right being in Final Fantasy XII. It didn't spoil the flow of the game, but left the option out there if you wanted to do a bit of exploring. I don't want straight linearity like you had in Final Fantasy X, just a bit of openness.

Spigot

03-05-2009, 06:17 AM

Gorvi

03-05-2009, 06:35 AM

Gorvi, those examples you give are fine, but they're not even coming close to what's concidered open world. I like the odd hidden weapon or what have you, but it's a rare open world game that really draws me in like a nice linear story in a JRPG does.
Oh, I agree, and something like Oblivion is tough to get really sucked into unless you just go nuts exploring like I did. I just don't want the other extreme (all the time anyway) of straight linearity with no option for deviation. It's nice in some games, but I also want at least a little bit of freedom.

Philonious

03-05-2009, 07:09 AM

Oh, I agree, and something like Oblivion is tough to get really sucked into unless you just go nuts exploring like I did. I just don't want the other extreme (all the time anyway) of straight linearity with no option for deviation. It's nice in some games, but I also want at least a little bit of freedom.

I agree with the point of exploration. Some of the most fun that I had with FFVII were hunting down the extras. Ditto for FFXII, I would often grind away so I could access areas that I wasn't supposed to be accessing and getting superior equipment early on. And while I loved Fallout 3 and Fable 2, which are more open than your traditional JRPG, the payoff from that freedom is often a little lame.

I find in Bethesda games there is a awful lot to explore, but that many of the areas you're exploring offer very little payoff other than generic equipment and some cash/gold. Even the myriad of side-quests are self-contained and have very little influence beyond themselves. So in Morrowind, when I am the head of the Legion, you think city guards would cut me some slack... But they don't because the game is too complex to keep track of everything you have accomplished.

Fable 2 (and 1) also suffers from this problem. You figure out how to open those magical face caves, enter to discover some wonderful scenery... And then find some lame weapon, clothing or dye. What is the point of freedom if there is no payoff? These games also suffer from cardboard/cookie-cutter NPCS.

Now I like both styles of games, but I think there are benefits to both. There NEEDS to be room for exploration and choice, but that freedom often comes at a cost. And don't get me started on meaningless choices. KOTOR - Light Side - Mission: Kill Darth Malak. Dark Side - Mission: Kill Darth Malak. there is NO difference.

Cyndair

03-05-2009, 07:25 AM

I find in Bethesda games there is a awful lot to explore, but that many of the areas you're exploring offer very little payoff other than generic equipment and some cash/gold. Even the myriad of side-quests are self-contained and have very little influence beyond themselves. So in Morrowind, when I am the head of the Legion, you think city guards would cut me some slack... But they don't because the game is too complex to keep track of everything you have accomplished.

I agree with this completely. I've never quite been able to put a finger on why I didn't get completely sucked into Oblivion. I went through the entire mage guild quest line, for example. It was fun but at the end of it, what did I get? A decent robe. After that, I was very disenchanted with the game.

When your world is large and open ended, you seem to risk losing a lot of personality and charm. All of the dungeons, though there are many, look the same. All of the temples in all the towns look exactly the same. The NPCs, same fate. It's big, you can tackle it in any order you want, but is it worth exploring?

Spigot

03-05-2009, 09:41 AM

That pretty much echoes my feelings on Oblivion as well. I appreciate the game, but there's just so much in there yet so much of it is utterly generic or incidental that I have a hard time caring.

I think that they did get it right in Fallout 3 though. I rarely find myself yawning as I work through a quest. It helps that they made an effort to give the NPCs a bit more personality this time around.

Panthera

03-05-2009, 10:13 AM

Oblivion really wasn't very good. Morrowind is the game worth exploring.

Spigot

03-05-2009, 10:18 AM

Oblivion really wasn't very good. Morrowind is the game worth exploring.Yeah. I loved the look and feel of Morrowind much more than the generic feel of Oblivion. I still wish both games had stronger NPC interaction though.

Panthera

03-05-2009, 10:32 AM

It's more like an offline version of FFXI.

It isn't, really, anything like. I think it shares an engine - that's about it.

Xydarc

03-05-2009, 10:36 AM

It isn't, really, anything like. I think it shares an engine - that's about it.
I've got to disagree with you. I've played both, and they are eerily similar.

Spigot

03-05-2009, 10:40 AM

I've got to disagree with you. I've played both, and they are eerily similar.I'm with you there. I wish FFXI could harness more of the fun of FFXII and dial down the punishment a bit more :)

Panthera

03-05-2009, 10:44 AM

I've got to disagree with you. I've played both, and they are eerily similar.

I've played both a ton, and I really don't see much similarity.

To be more clear:

1) The setting is different.
2) One has an open world, the other has a central city and a linear plotline that leads you from area to area.
3) The combat system doesn't have anything in common except that it's real time.
4) There is nothing in common as far as equipment, character statistics, character classes, abilities, or other gameplay systems go.

If anything, it's closer to any other pseudo-real time Final Fantasy than it is like FFXI - the difference being that the combats take place on the field instead of in a separate screen.

Gorvi

03-05-2009, 11:38 AM

It isn't, really, anything like. I think it shares an engine - that's about it.
When I initially played the FFXII demo it felt like FFXI with 2 NPCs at your side that you could control to some extent. Playing the full game, though, they only have a basic feel that is similar, they really are quite different.

I was constantly wishing for some kind of Skillchain/Magic Burst system in XII, that would have made the combat quite a bit more deep.
I'm with you there. I wish FFXI could harness more of the fun of FFXII and dial down the punishment a bit more :)
But the punishment is the fun part! ;)

And you started off as a Black Mage! That was just asking for trouble. :p

Panthera

03-05-2009, 11:53 AM

And you started off as a Black Mage! That was just asking for trouble. :p

This is so true. :eek:

Gorvi

03-05-2009, 11:59 AM

This is so true. :eek:
That's what I tried to tell him!

Warrior - Easy
Monk - Very Easy
Thief - Normal
Red Mage - Very Easy
White Mage - Kinda Tough
Black Mage - VERY HARD

Starting out in FFXI as a BLM is just asking to be destroyed. Your nukes are practically worthless (and you run out of MP after 3-4 anyway), your defense is garbage, and you really can't melee worth crap. I started as BLM myself, but that was 5 years ago (holy crap) when the game launched on PS2 in the US and people still partied in Sarutabaruta and Tahrongi. :eek:

/threadjack off

:)

Panthera

03-05-2009, 12:09 PM

Yeah, as did I. I stuck with it because I just love Black Mages in general and didn't know any better.

Going to RDM for my second class was an eye opener.

/tries to find the threadjack off switch

torrefaction

03-05-2009, 12:33 PM

I'm excited for Dragon's Age for all the reasons you guys are talking about the weakness of open games. A few games have done this right for me. The Baldur's Gates, NWN2:MoTB, The Witcher, and Planescape.

Everything I'm reading about Dragon's Age excites the hell out of me. And for those who are unaware...it is the most dialog Bioware has ever put in a game

Spigot

03-05-2009, 02:33 PM

Philonious

03-05-2009, 03:05 PM

Nice. And those are about the only western RPGs that I have really enjoyed. Go figure.

Did you know that OUR tax dollars subsidized the development of Baldur's Gate and the Infinity Engine? I take an odd pride from that fact... That and any time I play a game developed in Montreal.

Spigot

03-05-2009, 04:02 PM

Did you know that OUR tax dollars subsidized the development of Baldur's Gate and the Infinity Engine? I take an odd pride from that fact... That and any time I play a game developed in Montreal.We are a verbose bunch...

agentgray

03-06-2009, 08:20 AM

And for the first time in a while, I completely agree with Eternal Gamer when it comes to JRPGs. Well said, my friend (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOfM7WB1ya4).

Well played. Well played, indeed.

agentgray

03-06-2009, 08:22 AM

Persona 3 FES if you can find it. It's better than any of the current gen JRPGs by far. Persona 4 would also probably do nicely as well.

Puh-lease. I'd rather shoot myself.

Gorvi

03-06-2009, 08:26 AM

Puh-lease. I'd rather shoot myself.
Than play Persona 3 or 4? You've got to be literally the first person I've ever seen or heard say they didn't like the Persona games. Care to explain why? I'm really curious.

Spigot

03-06-2009, 09:48 AM

Than play Persona 3 or 4? You've got to be literally the first person I've ever seen or heard say they didn't like the Persona games. Care to explain why? I'm really curious.I think he was talking about Persona 3, Gorvi... and think about it :)

Agentgray is being witty today.

That said, he's also told me that the imagery of the crew using the evokers just rubs him the wrong way and on that basis alone, he won't touch the game.

He also thinks that Persona 4 encourages too much TV watching, but that's a whole other argument!

Gorvi

03-06-2009, 10:11 AM

I think he was talking about Persona 3, Gorvi... and think about it :)

Agentgray is being witty today.

That said, he's also told me that the imagery of the crew using the evokers just rubs him the wrong way and on that basis alone, he won't touch the game.

He also thinks that Persona 4 encourages too much TV watching, but that's a whole other argument!
Bah, I totally missed that. Now I feel dumb. :p

Spigot

03-06-2009, 11:02 AM

Bah, I totally missed that. Now I feel dumb. :pIt's ok. We all think you're dumb too ;)

Cyndair

03-06-2009, 11:10 AM

Bah, I totally missed that. Now I feel dumb. :p

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't get it either until I read Spigot's comment.

Man, this thread devolved into a FFXI discussion yesterday and I completely missed it. I've given up on MMOs for the time being but FFXI was the one that I enjoyed the most (played WoW, WAR, Conan, Guild Wars, and CoH). They've really dialed down the punishment a lot from what it was when it came out. You should go back and play a Monk, Spigot.

Speaking of jRPGs, what is coming out down the pipe in the next 1-2 years that you guys are interested in? FFXIII naturally for me as well as White Knight Story. Any others?

Spigot

03-06-2009, 12:17 PM

I'm more interested in White Knight Story than anything. Other than that, there isn't anything super awesome that I'm excited for. I am looking forward to the Devil Survivor and Devil Summoner 2 games coming out later this year, but that's about it for me on the JRPG front.

I actually did play as a monk the last time I tried getting into FFXI but I just don't have the time to devote to an MMO right now, esp. a hardcore one like FFXI. I have a WoW account that I barely play as it is, not for lack of interest, just lack of free afternoons. When I do get time to play, I have other games with definite endings that I like to chunk away at :)

Gorvi

03-06-2009, 12:21 PM

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't get it either until I read Spigot's comment.
I feel better now. :)
Man, this thread devolved into a FFXI discussion yesterday and I completely missed it. I've given up on MMOs for the time being but FFXI was the one that I enjoyed the most (played WoW, WAR, Conan, Guild Wars, and CoH). They've really dialed down the punishment a lot from what it was when it came out. You should go back and play a Monk, Spigot.
If you ever come back you should swap servers. :D
Speaking of jRPGs, what is coming out down the pipe in the next 1-2 years that you guys are interested in? FFXIII naturally for me as well as White Knight Story. Any others?
Now that I think about it, there's not a whole lot other than those. Most of what I'm looking forward to as far as JRPGs are on PSP (Parasite Eve: Third Birthday, FFXIII Agito, Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep, Persona, Class of Heroes, etc...) and DS (Dragon Quest IX, SMT: Devil Survivor, Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days, Dark Spire, etc....).

The only JRPGs that I can think of for consoles that have been announced that I want (other than the two you mentioned) are Versus XIII (PS3), Arc Rise Fantasia (Wii), and Devil Summoner 2 (PS2). There is Demon's Souls (PS3), but that's not really a JRPG. There's also Fragile (Wii), but I have my doubts that the game will come out here.

I'm not really worried, though, I've got a large part of Persona 3 ahead of me, then Persona 4, then a massive backlog of PS2 RPGs. I'm set for a looooooooooooooooooong time. :)

torrefaction

03-06-2009, 12:32 PM

I should really give Lost Odyssey a shot. I keep hearing semi-good things.

Spigot

03-06-2009, 02:26 PM

I should really give Lost Odyssey a shot. I keep hearing semi-good things.
Talk to me and I'll make sure you hear VERY good things.

Gorvi: Is Fragile a JRPG? I couldn't quite figure out what it was, exactly.

I don't mind if there isn't a lot of substantial JRPGs out this year. I've got such a backlog that I can handle a year with few releases so that I can try to get through the ones I have.

Gorvi

03-06-2009, 02:56 PM

Gorvi: Is Fragile a JRPG? I couldn't quite figure out what it was, exactly.

I don't mind if there isn't a lot of substantial JRPGs out this year. I've got such a backlog that I can handle a year with few releases so that I can try to get through the ones I have.
Yep, Fragile is. (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showthread.php?t=981&highlight=fragile) It looks pretty good, too.

And yep, I'm in the same boat with the backlog. Bring on the RPG drought, I don't want to feel like I'm missing out on stuff. :)

Spigot

03-06-2009, 04:31 PM

I always thought Fragile was more of a Zelda-type action adventure game than an RPG. Now I want it even more.

Variable Gear

03-10-2009, 04:22 AM

Oh my god. JRPGs are scary and weird. Help me!

LiquidRain

03-10-2009, 08:16 AM

carnage11

03-10-2009, 12:46 PM

No.

By the way, good job on recommending P4. I'm having fun with it so far, though I'm worried the OP might have a bit of trouble ignoring the "-kun" and "-chan" that start creeping into the dialogue after a few hours. (I'm capable of tuning it out, but..)

No actually....I've got my girlfriend calling me Jon-Kun now. It is pretty funny.:D

I'm having a lot of fun with this game, though I don't think I'm grinding enough. I'm only level 19 and it's like the end of May. I'm looking forward to the second playthrough, when I'll have the courage to tell these bitches straight up that I want to fuck. lol:D

LiquidRain

03-28-2009, 07:46 PM

Digging up this thread to graciously thank everyone for recommending Persona 4.

That was quite possibly one of, if not the, best JRPGs I have ever played. What a magnificent game from front to back. (yes, I went for the true ending)

And I'm not afraid to admit that I was choking up when (massive near-end-game spoilers) Nanako died. It got worse when she turned around, too, man that whole sequence was heartbreaking.

They did such a good job with all the characters in this game. Every single one of them was truly memorable, I was honestly really sad when it was all over. :(

Spigot

03-28-2009, 09:37 PM

There's a reason I was ranting and raving about Persona 4 for so long. Did you get all of the endings of just shoot for the True ending on the first go? That sequence is even worse if you get the bad ending. I was like, "NO!!!"

Yet it was still satisfying, no matter which ending you got. That takes some skill.

LiquidRain

03-29-2009, 11:14 AM

I went for the true ending first. I don't think I could have taken the bad ending. :(

BlackPete

03-29-2009, 11:43 AM

Heh thanks for the necro thread... I finally got around to playing Lost Odyssey, and I'm enjoying it. The character interactions seem way more polished than other games that have odd silences in dialogue between characters (Eternal Sonata, I'm looking at you).

Spigot

03-29-2009, 06:08 PM

Hooray for Lost Odyssey love. The worst part of that game was when I got the achievement for the last 1000 Years Of Dreams entry and realized I wouldn't have another story to read.

torrefaction

03-30-2009, 09:31 AM

Damnit. Don't make me play Lost Odyssey. I don't want to get my hopes up for another jRPG.

Gorvi

03-30-2009, 09:58 AM

Damnit. Don't make me play Lost Odyssey. I don't want to get my hopes up for another jRPG.
Then play Persona 3 or 4, you won't be let down. :D

torrefaction

03-30-2009, 11:29 AM

Then play Persona 3 or 4, you won't be let down. :D

I can no longer play PS2 games.

I apologize to the community and my younger self for becoming a graphics whore.

Funny thing is I can still play sprite-based SNES RPG's. It holds up better for some reason.

TheFlyingOrc

03-30-2009, 11:30 AM

RPGs are for children. There, I said it.

Banacek

03-30-2009, 11:32 AM

I can no longer play PS2 games.

I apologize to the community and my younger self for becoming a graphics whore.

Funny thing is I can still play sprite-based SNES RPG's. It holds up better for some reason.

NES and SNES games hold up well in the HD era. Playstation games (especially PS1) are horrible. They look so bad it's hard to even look at the screen. It sucks because I'd love to play SotC again, but it looks like utter garbage.

If you did want to play a PS1 game, I'd recommend picking up ePSXe and using the custom filters. They can make a PS1 game look better than a Dreamcast game.

TheFlyingOrc

03-30-2009, 11:33 AM

NES and SNES games hold up well in the HD era. Playstation games (especially PS1) are horrible. They look so bad it's hard to even look at the screen. It sucks because I'd love to play SotC again, but it looks like utter garbage.

Same for 64 games.

Banacek

03-30-2009, 11:42 AM

Same for 64 games.

True. It's interesting to see how developers used the technology of SD televisions to make 3D games look better. It's like someone pulled back the curtain.

TheFlyingOrc

03-30-2009, 11:52 AM

True. It's interesting to see how developers used the technology of SD televisions to make 3D games look better. It's like someone pulled back the curtain.

It's really funny how being washed out makes them look better.

Gamecube fared better than the PS2, but man - I hated playing Resident Evil 4 on my new, shiny, big TV. It looked AMAZING on the 19" RCA piece of crap I had. Now there's huge jaggies everywhere. :(

Panthera

03-30-2009, 12:15 PM

One thing that's often missed about that is that CRT TVs often actually do have better contrast and colour quality. So, when you bring a PS2 game onto a big LCD, you're getting worse contrast and bigger pixel edges.

Gorvi

03-30-2009, 12:31 PM

I can no longer play PS2 games.

I apologize to the community and my younger self for becoming a graphics whore.

Funny thing is I can still play sprite-based SNES RPG's. It holds up better for some reason.
P3/4 have a very stylized look, they're games that hold up really well. Granted, I'm playing P3 upscaled to 1080p, but still, even on an SDTV it looks pretty damn good, especially considering the system it's on.
RPGs are for children. There, I said it.
You're for children. o.O

Cyndair

03-30-2009, 12:46 PM

It's kinda funny that this discussion came up. My 50" plasma blew up (literally, it had smoke pouring out the back) over the weekend. I pulled my old 27" CRT out of storage to fill in while I wait for repairs and hooked my shiny new systems up to it. One thing that really struck me was the input lag. I hadn't really realized how much there was until I started playing things on the old TV again. Twitch games feel so much more responsive on the CRT.

carnage11

03-30-2009, 12:50 PM

I can no longer play PS2 games.

I apologize to the community and my younger self for becoming a graphics whore.

Funny thing is I can still play sprite-based SNES RPG's. It holds up better for some reason.

Dude, do yourself a favor and play Persona 4. Even for a PS2 game, it looks nice. I'm kinda the same way with graphics, which is why I initially wanted a 360 game. I'm pleasantly surprised playing P4 though. It's a lot of cell shaded animation, and it works well.

Spigot

03-30-2009, 01:36 PM

Yeah. Of the variety of PS2 JRPGs you could play, the Persona games are so stylized and nice looking that you almost forget you're playing a PS2 game. P4 looked fantastic upscaled on the PS3 too.

I can't say that about a lot of other games (it made me sad when I saw how nasty Yakuza looked on my HDTV) but boy howdy, do the Persona games look nice.

Banacek

03-30-2009, 01:57 PM

Spigot

03-30-2009, 03:23 PM

Please, like you could say anything bad about Persona ;)Um... They're too long? Tartarus sucks giant monkey nuts?

Don't get me wrong... I really hope the next Persona game is on the PS3. It's hard to complain about the PS2 installments though.

Purple Santa

03-30-2009, 05:16 PM

Um... They're too long? Tartarus sucks giant monkey nuts?

As much as I am loving P3...yeah, the length of the game is a tad ridiculous. At this point...yes, Tartarus does suck giant monkey nuts. At 90+ hours...yeah, it begins to grate some. But I know i'm near the end...so dammit I am finishing this game...

LiquidRain

03-30-2009, 05:18 PM

P3/4 have a very stylized look, they're games that hold up really well. Granted, I'm playing P3 upscaled to 1080p, but still, even on an SDTV it looks pretty damn good, especially considering the system it's on.
Gonna agree with Gorvi and Spigot here. You won't confuse it for a 360 or PS3 game anytime soon, but I forgot I was staring at large pixels most of the time on my 40" LCD. The stylization and simple geometry/shapes works really well for the game.

You want to hear some bad stuff about P4?

- It does tend to drag on a bit too long.
- I could definitely do without the Japanese honourifics. They become a bit too heavily used by the end.
- The battle helper, I wish there was an option to turn off Teddie during battle. and Rise
- Sometimes the day alignment stinks, resulting in wasted time, a huge problem towards the end unless you're playing by a strict guide.
- Some grinding involved
- There were a good number of cutscenes that were typical JRPG lameness, or just plain too stupid/frivolous (though for me, they were largely worth it just to hear Yosuke freak out - but compared to some of the other tripe this genre tends to spit out, I found these to be *ahem* bearable, though really that's no excuse)
- Some of the dungeons are just plain too long. 11 floors? Gimme a break.

Spigot

03-30-2009, 05:28 PM

The cooking scenes/subplot alone made P4 awesome.

And I actually really like the honourifics. They give it that special something and it was funny to have my kid ask me who Kanji-Kun was.

Kenzington4short

03-30-2009, 06:05 PM

- There were a good number of cutscenes that were typical JRPG lameness, or just plain too stupid/frivolous (though for me, they were largely worth it just to hear Yosuke freak out - but compared to some of the other tripe this genre tends to spit out, I found these to be *ahem* bearable, though really that's no excuse)

Heh, I chuckled. I can hear Teddie all over again.

I haven't touched P4 for a number of weeks now after getting about 60 hours in. First it was Street Fighter and then Resident Evil that pulled my attention. Y'know, I want to get back into it but I also don't. It had gotten to the point it felt a bit like a grind. It is such a fantastic game, though. I'm sure one weekend, when the mood strikes, I'll throw it back into the PS3.

Anyone else watching the Giant Bomb endurance run (http://www.giantbomb.com/endurance-run-persona-4-part-01/17-219/)? Vinny and Jeff go through the game, half an hour at a time! They just hit the bathhouse. I tune in every weekday. It's amusing listening to their reactions.

LiquidRain

03-30-2009, 06:31 PM

A friend was telling me about that - it does sound really funny, but I'm in such a fanboy mode after finishing the game it'd probably just make me angry to listen to them. :) (or maybe it was my friend making fun of the game and not the Bomb guys... ah well)

Also, FINISH P4. The last few hours (especially leading up to the true ending) are awesome. When you've got a nice stack of killer Persona, the grinding becomes great because you can exact perfect revenge on every enemy that's ever made you angry in the game, and the entire final arc is both fantastic and heart wrenching.

NANAAAAAAAKOOOOOOO NOOOOOOOO

Kenzington4short

03-30-2009, 07:13 PM

Xydarc

03-30-2009, 07:47 PM

RPGs are for children. There, I said it.
Then I don't wanna grow up, I'm a RPG kid.:D

BlackPete

03-30-2009, 08:16 PM

Damnit. Don't make me play Lost Odyssey. I don't want to get my hopes up for another jRPG.

Heh, to be fair I did go into LO with pretty low expectations since I figured it'd be a pretty cookie cutter jRPG with nothing really outstanding to talk about.

But I guess I've been so used to bad dialogues with awkward pauses in other games that I was actually taken aback by the dialogues and character interaction in Lost Odyssey. It still wouldn't win a World Fantasy award, but it's definitely deeper than most jRPGs I've played.

Then again the bar of standards was set pretty low by... [longpause] Eternal [longpause] Sonata [longpause].

jpublic

03-30-2009, 08:31 PM

It's actually fairly platant in P4 where the bridge to the bad vs normal ending is. The Normal vs true is a bit obscure.

Having recently gone back to it, I can't recommend Lost Odyssey enough. Best RPG on the 360. 3rd Best jRPG released on consoles in recent history.

First off, it's actually *adult*. Yeah, there's kids, and some goofiness, but it's a very mature game, and really well done. The combat is a fun and interesting take on turn-based, and at no time did I really feel that the side-quest stuff was overdone.

And let me tell you, it looks so damn good on my HDTV - last time I played it was on my SDTV.

Chris_D

03-30-2009, 08:42 PM

Best JRPG on 360 except for Tales :p.

LiquidRain

03-30-2009, 09:18 PM

Best JRPG on 360 except for Tales :p.
Considering the competition.. :)

NOOOO! When I quoted you it showed me the spoiler text! NOOOO!!!

I know there are multiple ending to the game, but is there a specific point at which the game determines what ending you'll get? I hope I'm not past it if there is one.
Not that I spoiled anything in particular, but that really sucks. I'll have to be careful about my spoilers in the future now and remember that quote shows me spoiler content. :)

And use a guide to get the true ending. In fact you may even need it to get anything other than the bad ending - you have a lot of room to make mistakes. I used http://persona4.wikidot.com. It's spoiler-free.

jpublic

03-30-2009, 10:16 PM

Best JRPG on 360 except for Tales :p.

And here, neighbor, is where you prove your opinion is completely twisted.

Seriously? Tales better than LO? SERIOUSLY?

Give your head a shake, and hide your face in shame.

Chris_D

03-30-2009, 10:55 PM

Kenzington4short

03-30-2009, 11:41 PM

Considering the competition.. :)

Not that I spoiled anything in particular, but that really sucks. I'll have to be careful about my spoilers in the future now and remember that quote shows me spoiler content. :)

And use a guide to get the true ending. In fact you may even need it to get anything other than the bad ending - you have a lot of room to make mistakes. I used http://persona4.wikidot.com. It's spoiler-free.

Heh, it wasn't a big deal. It was pretty vague. Thanks for the link!

All this talk about LO reminds me that I haven't finished it either. Got to the third disc and other stuff came up. I need to get back to that. I definitely enjoyed that one.

zarathstra

03-31-2009, 12:24 PM

I really liked Lost Odyssey. My complaints about the ridiculous outfits and save points not withstanding, of course. now I'm working on Oblivion, and I'm enjoying that too. Its nice to be able to take to story at whatever pace I want, sometimes.

jpublic

03-31-2009, 06:07 PM

Absolutely seriously. I liked Tales better than LO. I finished it for one thing and even started the new game plus mode, 130 hours total so far. LO petered out by around the start of the fourth disc for me. Still, I thought LO was really good and would recommend it to anyone. Also, I'd put it up against most of the Final Fantasies.

Tales, like much of the series, just got tedious for me. The only character I was vaguely sympathetic to was Yuri, and as time went on even he irritated me. Also the combat got tiresome. Tales of Eternia (ToD II in NA - PS1) was probably my favorite Tales game, and none of the games since have really done anything for me. I *like* Tales, but it's not my favorite jRPG for the system.

LO has really sympathetic characters, who are interesting and above all *human*. I love how every cut scene just comes across as so geniune. Even the constant challenge of the combat keeps me going.

In other topics, what's your opinion of Star Ocean Last Hope? IMO, it's a mind-bogglingly PRETTY game, with a decent system and somewhat interesting plot (albeit juvenile), only marred by some truly horrible cutesy characters (for example Welch). OTOH, Edge's Shatner-esque tirades are things of awe.

Chris_D

03-31-2009, 06:20 PM

evilgoodwin

03-31-2009, 07:25 PM

Damn, people. Now I REALLY want to play LO. Bad. But I'm pretty sure my grades will suffer. Must... save... till... summer...

jpublic

03-31-2009, 07:45 PM

For me, some of the negatives of LO were:
- Combat was just a bit too simple, and I never died once or felt in danger. Random encounters feel a little dated these days.
- Not enough character customisation
- Side quests seemed almost non existent, at least for the first 3 discs. There didn't seem to be much to do outside the main quest.
- Too many cutscenes
- Load times weren't bad, but noticeable
- I never found a new weapon or accessory that made me go "Wow, I'm so much more powerful now!"

1) Huh. I often found combat tricky, although it was sort of like the Matador in Nocturne - once you figured the trick to the critter, it was easy.
2) Graphically? I dunno, different weapons are usually all expect these days. The additional elemental effect was a nice touch. If you mean the way that Seth/Kaim and Sarah/Ming get built identically with special abilities - yeah, I agree.
3) I liked the way the game was linear right until I got a bit annoyed, and then it was OMGWTFSIDEQUESTS in mid Disc 4. I can see why that would turn you off, though, especially if you didn't get to D4.
4) You're not going to like Star Ocean 4, then. Although, some of them are so absolutely awe-inspiringly CAMPY you'll love them.
5) Absolutely. I wonder how much copy-to-disc helps that.
6) This, amusingly, happened to me in the late game. I had a dude that I happened to get a higher-level weapon for early though some bloody mindedness, and I was impressed by how much doubling his attack stat changed things.