Lost (5.07) February 25, 2009 [Spoilers]

[DoctorFinger]

This week's episode - "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham"Locke's fateful mission off the island as Jeremy Bentham is revealedFun fact, this was actually the sixth episode produced this season, but they switched it in the order with last week's episode.

I'm going to ask everyone not to discuss anything seen in the previews for the following episode, since some people studiously avoid them.

[biosc1]

I keep forgetting who Bentham is...

[DoctorFinger]

Jeremy Bentham is the name Locke used when visiting the Oceanic Six.

[biosc1]

Right, but before that (thanks to Google)

Sawyer used the name as an alias

[Smoof]

Failed a fort save versus disease this week which caused me to miss work and school. The good thing is, I managed to catch-up with all six episodes of Lost so far. Really looking forward to tonights episode.

[rein]

Yay! I finally get to watch during the normal viewing time instead of after midnight. They also boosted the signal to the one local channel I could not get in HD and I get the bonus of viewing it in HD. It's a win/win for me. Pretty slow episode so far tonight.

[Widgetcraft]

I totally knew what Ben was going to do... The moment he understood the key to getting back, he no longer had a use for Locke.

[inmostlight]

I totally knew what Ben was going to do... The moment he understood the key to getting back, he no longer had a use for Locke.

He did have a use for Locke, otherwise he would not have stolen the body. Locke just needed to be dead for Ben's uses. :)

The real question raised is - what's up with Ben and Eloise? That's the second time he's shown cracks in his facade when she comes up in conversation (the first was the time Desmond said she was Daniel's mother).

[cp#]

Called fucking everything.

John was going to die one way or another... but I don't know why Ben did it. Probably out of jealousy again (he already tried to kill John in S4). But I would think that Ben would know someone special like John would not be gone for good.


Either way, Ben can no longer be trusted (he had gained some trust). He is working only for himself and I have a feeling that Charles Widmore is telling the truth.

[BlackPete]

While watching this episode I had a couple of epiphanies:

1) I feel like I could watch any Lost episode in any random order and it'd still make as much sense. Before last week I hadn't seen Lost for about a year (around when the freighter first showed up at the island and everyone was happy to get off the island).

2) Locke and Starbuck suffered the same fate... could Locke be Starbuck's father? :eek:

[Banacek]

There is no way Widmore is the good guy. Both him and Ben are evil. It seems that the island doesn't want Ben back. I'm betting that it feels the same about Wimore.

1) I feel like I could watch any Lost episode in any random order and it'd still make as much sense. Before last week I hadn't seen Lost for about a year (around when the freighter first showed up at the island and everyone was happy to get off the island).

Um, you've missed a shitload.

[Widgetcraft]

He did have a use for Locke, otherwise he would not have stolen the body. Locke just needed to be dead for Ben's uses. :)

He needed the body to get back. If he just needed Locke to be dead, why wouldn't he have let him kill himself? Why murder him as he did, without telling Locke? He killed Locke the moment he heard Hawking's name.

[Banacek]

He needed the body to get back. If he just needed Locke to be dead, why wouldn't he have let him kill himself? Why murder him as he did, without telling Locke? He killed Locke the moment he heard Hawking's name.

Rewind the tape. Ben was making a weapon out of the cord before he even said Hawking's name. It was Locke saying that Jin was alive that started Ben's turn. It seems that he wanted to get Sun on the plane more then he wanted Locke to be alive.

Who wants to bet Widmore got Walt on the plane?

[Urizen]

There is no way Widmore is the good guy. Both him and Ben are evil. It seems that the island doesn't want Ben back. I'm betting that it feels the same about Widmore.

Widmore has got to be the lesser of two evils, though. We know a lot more about Ben, sure. But what's the most evil thing Widmore has personally done? He's hired goons to do dirty work, but what about the man himself?

I find it strange Locke didn't call Widmore when Abbadon got gunned down.

The island definitely does not want Ben back. That's why he crashed and everyone else got zapped. He's not supposed to be here - not now, anyway. We know as much because Christian told Locke to specifically not listen to Ben.

I found myself wishing Locke would have gone ahead and jumped off the table even as Ben talked him out of it, but this makes more sense.

[Banacek]

Widmore has got to be the lesser of two evils, though. We know a lot more about Ben, sure. But what's the most evil thing Widmore has personally done? He's hired goons to do dirty work, but what about the man himself?

I find it strange Locke didn't call Widmore when Abbadon got gunned down.

The island definitely does not want Ben back. That's why he crashed and everyone else got zapped. He's not supposed to be here - not now, anyway. We know as much because Christian told Locke to specifically not listen to Ben.

I found myself wishing Locke would have gone ahead and jumped off the table even as Ben talked him out of it, but this makes more sense.

Agreed. I thought that Widmore would be the first person Locke contacted. I think Widmore sent mercs to the island, and faked the plane crash. He isn't good by any means. But Ben is probably worse. I think both men want to use the island, while Jacob speaks to Locke because he actually believes in the island. I think we're going to find out that the Others were the same way (pure faith in the island) before being tainted by Ben.

As an aside, how does anyone trust someone with the name Abbadon? :)

[pomeroy]

Was anyone else shocked that Abbadon was killed? For some reason, I always thought of Abbadon as being like Alpert. Basically omniscient/unaging. When he got plugged, my jaw dropped.

And Ben remains my favorite character. What a bastard.

[Banacek]

Was anyone else shocked that Abbadon was killed? For some reason, I always thought of Abbadon as being like Alpert. Basically omniscient/unaging. When he got plugged, my jaw dropped.

And Ben remains my favorite character. What a bastard.

I think they had more plans for him, but then he got a role on Fringe. Might have had something to do with it.

[pomeroy]

Oh, fucking Fringe. Goddamn you Pacey.

[BlackPete]

Um, you've missed a shitload.

And yet it doesn't feel like it.

[Banacek]

And yet it doesn't feel like it.

I guess if you enjoy skipping around books while you read them then more power to you.

[BlackPete]

I guess if you enjoy skipping around books while you read them then more power to you.

I've watched season one, largely skipped over two, and picked it back up in season 3, and found that I didn't miss season two at all.

I then skipped another huge chunk, and I'm finding it still doesn't take much to pick it up again.

The thing about Lost is this: They insist on retelling the same story/time period over and over again from different POVs of different characters so the main story itself really doesn't move forward a whole lot until you look at it over the span of years.

[Siraris]

Well, if you remember, Dax, Ben was not supposed to have turned the wheel, Locke was.

I think both Widmore and Ben are bad people. Perhaps Widmore is lesser of two evils, I don't really know. The thing I want to know is, are most of the losties in the time period with Dharma, or are they in the future with the plane crash? I ask this, because Locke and Ben are with the crash victims, and no one else is. Why would Locke not be with the others?

[Banacek]

I've watched season one, largely skipped over two, and picked it back up in season 3, and found that I didn't miss season two at all.

I then skipped another huge chunk, and I'm finding it still doesn't take much to pick it up again.

The thing about Lost is this: They insist on retelling the same story/time period over and over again from different POVs of different characters so the main story itself really doesn't move forward a whole lot until you look at it over the span of years.

Well, A chunk of season 2 and 3 were stinkers. I quit watching midway through season 3 because the show was getting so bad. It really wasn't until the writers locked in the show arc with ABC and stopped having to write the filler episodes it got good again.

If you watched from the mid-season 3 till this weeks episode you'd see that your complaint isn't valid anymore. There's a really good show in the chunk you've missed.

[Banacek]

Well, if you remember, Dax, Ben was not supposed to have turned the wheel, Locke was.

I think both Widmore and Ben are bad people. Perhaps Widmore is lesser of two evils, I don't really know. The thing I want to know is, are most of the losties in the time period with Dharma, or are they in the future with the plane crash? I ask this, because Locke and Ben are with the crash victims, and no one else is. Why would Locke not be with the others?

Remember, Locke left the island the same way Ben did. It's either that or the fact that he was dead made him different than the other losties.

[Siraris]

Remember, Locke left the island the same way Ben did. It's either that or the fact that he was dead made him different than the other losties.

I know how he left the island. It's just strange to me, since he's basically followed the rules.

[pomeroy]

I know how he left the island. It's just strange to me, since he's basically followed the rules.

I think it's because Jacob wants him with those people on the plane (perhaps as some new Others?).

[Banacek]

I know how he left the island. It's just strange to me, since he's basically followed the rules.

Hmm, I wasn't being condescending in my post.

[Cyndair]

All I know is that I'm really excited to see where the show will go from here. I love Lost, and this season has been great so far but the return to the island has felt so contrived and even somewhat predictable to me. Now that everyone is back, I have no idea what will happen next. That makes me happy.

[Urizen]

I think it's because Jacob wants him with those people on the plane (perhaps as some new Others?).

I like that theory.

Widmore says a war is coming, and that the Others are his people, which makes you wonder what Richard is really up to. He's got Ben, Widmore and Locke all thinking they are the true leaders of the Others.

Also, I'd like to think all the shitty stuff that's happened to Locke - the constant physical abuse and mental anguish at the hands of the writers and fate - is somewhat of a vindication for what his father did to him. For a long time, it felt like his father was the root of all his misery, but that's not necessarily true. Locke has to endure a lot of pain and suffering because he's meant to. He would have gone through all that discomfort as someone else's victim if it wasn't his father because that's hit lot in life. These are the steps he must take.

[Siraris]

I think it's because Jacob wants him with those people on the plane (perhaps as some new Others?).

Remember what Walt said...

[boratika]

I can totally see how this episode and the other we're meant to be the other way. Especially the last scene, which would have been a bit punchier.

Widmore has got to be the lesser of two evils, though. We know a lot more about Ben, sure. But what's the most evil thing Widmore has personally done? He's hired goons to do dirty work, but what about the man himself?

I think Widmore just seems that way because we've seen less of him doing his thing. That and he can just sit behind a desk and order others to do his nasty.

Young Widmore sure wasn't a pleasant chap. And assume he knew just the sort of person he was consorting with when he hired Keemy (the sort of guy who would shoot a 17 year old girl in the head just to piss off her father.)

I almost think we the writers are trying to make Widmore look more civil than Ben, but it's a bait-and-switch.

[KSmitty]

Well, A chunk of season 2 and 3 were stinkers. I quit watching midway through season 3 because the show was getting so bad. It really wasn't until the writers locked in the show arc with ABC and stopped having to write the filler episodes it got good again.

If you watched from the mid-season 3 till this weeks episode you'd see that your complaint isn't valid anymore. There's a really good show in the chunk you've missed.
I remember a thread back on EvAv after the end of season 2, where I got royally wailed on for stating that S2 was bullshit. Then I got lumped into the "need to be spoonfed the plot/Lost haters" group when I said that S3 was weak sauce. S2 and S3 could have been combined into a 26 episode season and the show would be none the worse for it. I was SO VERY glad when they finalized the deal with ABC for the remaining episodes (which conveniently places them at a great number of episodes for syndication), well that and when they announced Brian K Vaughn was coming on to the show.

[Urizen]

I remember a thread back on EvAv after the end of season 2, where I got royally wailed on for stating that S2 was bullshit. Then I got lumped into the "need to be spoonfed the plot/Lost haters" group when I said that S3 was weak sauce. S2 and S3 could have been combined into a 26 episode season and the show would be none the worse for it. I was SO VERY glad when they finalized the deal with ABC for the remaining episodes (which conveniently places them at a great number of episodes for syndication), well that and when they announced Brian K Vaughn was coming on to the show.

Got to say, I don't envy you. My wife got me hooked on Lost when she bought the S3 of the DVD set. I started at the beginning, obviously, but the fact that I ran through everything I missed in a couple weeks just to catch up meant the bad episodes weighed less on me.

I'm still pissed as hell they killed Mr. Eko. And I can't shake the feeling that this Caesar guy is going to be A LOT like Ana-Lucia. I heard Michelle Rodriguez got written out of the show because of her legal troubles at the time.

[KSmitty]

Got to say, I don't envy you. My wife got me hooked on Lost when she bought the S3 of the DVD set. I started at the beginning, obviously, but the fact that I ran through everything I missed in a couple weeks just to catch up meant the bad episodes weighed less on me.

I'm still pissed as hell they killed Mr. Eko. And I can't shake the feeling that this Caesar guy is going to be A LOT like Ana-Lucia. I heard Michelle Rodriguez got written out of the show because of her legal troubles at the time.
I was in the minority in that I actually liked the Ana Lucia character. I thought her death was worked into the story very well and it was a good end to her character arc, but I wasn't part of the Ding Dong the Witch is Dead chorus.

Yes Michelle Rodriguez was written out for her off screen antics. Sadly Mr Eko asked to be written out of the show. He wanted some personal/family time (or something to that effect), and the writers had to scramble for a way to write him off. That is why I have never been too sad about his death or too critical about the awkward way it was handled. I wish he could have been around longer, but I think the writers did the best they could under the circumstances.

[DoctorFinger]

Pretty much the minute the end was announced, the show got better. But even the producers admit that they spent too much time on the hatch and with Jack, Sawyer & Kate in the Zoo.

[Urizen]

Did you ever catch this gem (http://www.hollywood.com/news/Lost_Star_Alan_Dale_Got_Sick_of_Show_by_Third_Seas on/5307282) by Alan Dale (the actor who plays Widmore)?

Eko was the man.

[Widgetcraft]

Did you ever catch this gem (http://www.hollywood.com/news/Lost_Star_Alan_Dale_Got_Sick_of_Show_by_Third_Seas on/5307282) by Alan Dale (the actor who plays Widmore)?

Eko was the man.

I think everyone got sick of it in the third season; the third season sucked ass. I ended up dropping the show, and didn't watch the fourth season until Scifi did a marathon of it before this season started. I'm glad I gave it another chance, because outside of season 3, it is a really good show.

[biosc1]

I think everyone got sick of it in the third season; the third season sucked ass. I ended up dropping the show, and didn't watch the fourth season until Scifi did a marathon of it before this season started. I'm glad I gave it another chance, because outside of season 3, it is a really good show.

I think my advantage was that we borrowed seasons 1-3 on DVD and just plowed through it and I had season 4 ready and waiting for me (Tivo'd), so we were able to look over the crappy episodes by just firing up the next one.

[Banacek]

I think my advantage was that we borrowed seasons 1-3 on DVD and just plowed through it and I had season 4 ready and waiting for me (Tivo'd), so we were able to look over the crappy episodes by just firing up the next one.

Imagine waiting up to four weeks at a time between those shitty episodes. It was awful. I don't think the ratings have recovered from season 3.

[cp#]

The thing I want to know is, are most of the losties in the time period with Dharma, or are they in the future with the plane crash? I ask this, because Locke and Ben are with the crash victims, and no one else is. Why would Locke not be with the others?

My best guess

Locke, Ben, Sun, and Frank are in 2007 (a new survivor said that "the pilot and some woman" took the third boat to the main Island)

Jack, Kate, and Hurley are in the 1970s with Jin. I will go ahead and say that Daniel, Miles, Sawyer, and Juliet are also in this time period. Rose and Bernard, too.

But where is Sayid?

[inmostlight]

Sadly Mr Eko asked to be written out of the show. He wanted some personal/family time (or something to that effect), and the writers had to scramble for a way to write him off. That is why I have never been too sad about his death or too critical about the awkward way it was handled. I wish he could have been around longer, but I think the writers did the best they could under the circumstances.

Yeah, I miss Mr Eko and where his character could have gone. The reason the actor (Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje) left is that both of his parents died suddenly and he returned home to be with the rest of his family and take a break from acting for a while. Looks like he's starting to come back, though, he's going to be in the GI Joe movie.