Finally, an upgrade for my computer!

[harle]

Old Rig:
Opteron 180
1GB DDR1 Ram 400mhz
Asus A8n Sli
Antec 500W
Geforce 7800GT


New Hotness: (with a $500 budget)
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115036)
XIGMATEK HDT-S1283 120mm Rifle CPU Cooler (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233003)
XIGMATEK ACK-I7751 Retention Bracket (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233019)
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166)
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358)
CORSAIR 620w HX Series Modular Cable Design 80 Plus Certified Power Supply (http://www.amazon.com/CORSAIR-Modular-Design-Certified-Supply/dp/B000I54FG2/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1234945119&sr=8-1)
PNY - Verto NVIDIA GeForce 9600 GSO 768MB DDR3 PCI Express Graphics Card (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8968101&type=product&id=1217029964838&ref=06&loc=01&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=8968101)

Total: $545 after rebates

Parts I am going to use from my old rig:
Antec P182
WD 640GB SATA II
WD 250GB SATA I
Samsung DVD RW

[Whunpo]

That rig is hawt, harle. A nice price, too.

[muddi900]

Get a better graphic card and your rig will be perfect.

[harle]

Get a better graphic card and your rig will be perfect.I knew this comment was coming sooner or later. :) I was actually somewhat content with my old rig until two of the ram slots on my motherboard decided to die. I think there were several issues with my motherboard, this being the latest one.

Anyways, on topic. Before this last issue with the motherboard, I decided to do a small upgrade and bought the graphics card about two weeks ago. So, I am having issues justifying the extra $200 (I was thinking a GTX 260 Core 216). The 9600GSO is a great card for $30, but it definitely will not handle some of the latest games I want to play.

[H.Bogard]

Get a Radeon 4850. You can find one for less than $120 if you try hard enough.

[Whunpo]

I'm with you harle. Stick with the 9600 till it won't play what you want it to anymore. Then you can buy a new and fancy video card.

[harle]

Get a Radeon 4850. You can find one for less than $120 if you try hard enough.I was thinking that it might be better to get something like the GTX 260 just because I play at 1680x1050. Do you know how well the 4850 does at higher resolutions?

[harle]

I'm with you harle. Stick with the 9600 till it won't play what you want it to anymore. Then you can buy a new and fancy video card.It is such a difficult decision. :) On the one hand, I do not regularly play all the newest games. The last two games I played a lot were Left 4 Dead and STALKER. The 9600GSO does a pretty great job with almost everything maxed out on both games. My main reason for a card like the GTX 260 or 4850 would be to upgrade my whole computer. I am assuming that my graphics card will now be the bottleneck. I was originally aiming for a $500 budget, but we will see what happens. :)

[Ancalagon]

It is such a difficult decision. :) On the one hand, I do not regularly play all the newest games. The last two games I played a lot were Left 4 Dead and STALKER. The 9600GSO does a pretty great job with almost everything maxed out on both games. My main reason for a card like the GTX 260 or 4850 would be to upgrade my whole computer. I am assuming that my graphics card will now be the bottleneck. I was originally aiming for a $500 budget, but we will see what happens. :)

If your 9600 GSO does okay for now, leave it as is. Your new CPU and RAM will give you a large performance boost anyway. Rather wait until you really really need a new graphics card, there will be better cards available by then anyway.

I'd probably get the 4870 1GB cos I hear its more power efficient than a GTX 260. But not sure of that, been a while since I looked at benchies. To be honest a 4850 would probably do you okay, but I think the 512mb of RAM might hurt you in some games at your resolution.

[LiquidRain]

A Q6600? Really? That processor is really old and stale, I'm surprised it's still kicking around in the numbers it is.

For an extra $30 you could have gotten a MUCH better deal by going with a AMD Phenom II (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471). Cooler, faster, you name it.

You also don't need a 620W power supply. One in the 500W range would have done you well - I'd have skimped on the RAM and gotten DDR2-800 instead of 1066. Both of those cuts would have let you had a much better graphics card, as well as the Phenom II, for about the same price. Overall your system performance would have been MUCH better.

The 4870 is definitely more power efficient than the GTX 260. It also is only 9.5" long instead of 10.5", meaning it's much more likely to fit in your case than a GTX 260.

[Ancalagon]

A Q6600? Really? That processor is really old and stale, I'm surprised it's still kicking around in the numbers it is.

For an extra $30 you could have gotten a MUCH better deal by going with a AMD Phenom II (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471). Cooler, faster, you name it.

You also don't need a 620W power supply. One in the 500W range would have done you well - I'd have skimped on the RAM and gotten DDR2-800 instead of 1066. Both of those cuts would have let you had a much better graphics card, as well as the Phenom II, for about the same price. Overall your system performance would have been MUCH better.

The 4870 is definitely more power efficient than the GTX 260. It also is only 9.5" long instead of 10.5", meaning it's much more likely to fit in your case than a GTX 260.

Hmmm, I probably agree about the Q6600, a Q8300 would probably be better. However, I'm not sure I agree about the Phenom II - from what I've seen, those things arent power friendly at stock speeds, and drain nuclear power plants when over clocked. I mean, the problem is that they have a similar transistor count to the Core i7 while offering drastically lower performance. More transistors = more power drain (when using the same process node).

[harle]

A Q6600? Really? That processor is really old and stale, I'm surprised it's still kicking around in the numbers it is.

For an extra $30 you could have gotten a MUCH better deal by going with a AMD Phenom II (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103471). Cooler, faster, you name it.

You also don't need a 620W power supply. One in the 500W range would have done you well - I'd have skimped on the RAM and gotten DDR2-800 instead of 1066. Both of those cuts would have let you had a much better graphics card, as well as the Phenom II, for about the same price. Overall your system performance would have been MUCH better.

The 4870 is definitely more power efficient than the GTX 260. It also is only 9.5" long instead of 10.5", meaning it's much more likely to fit in your case than a GTX 260.I read about the Phenom II, but was not that interested. I know the 940 can overclock like crazy, but I am not going to be doing anything too process intensive such as video encoding, so I was thinking an overclocked Q6600 at 3.2Ghz would give me more than enough to work with. I used the following two articles to check out the CPU differences: Article 1 (http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-phenom-ii-x4-920-and-940-review-test/1) | Article 2 (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/phenom-ii-940,2114.html).

My order will probably not ship for another day or two, so I am still definitely open to some good suggestions on a Phenom II CPU / MB deal. Here is one I just found:
AMD Phenom II X4 940 $229.99
GIGABYTE GA-MA790X-UD4 AM2+/AM2 AMD 790X ATX (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128381) $114.99

As far as power supplies, I wanted a modular Corsair PS and the difference in price between the 520w and 620w was $10, so I went with it. :)

The difference in price between the DDR800 and DDR1066 I looked at was also $10, so I splurged a bit on that also. (I dont know if the Q6600 at 1066FSB and the ram at 1066 would give me an advantage when overclocking or not)

[Wraith]

I am still contemplating whether or not to cancel my order for the Q6600 and get the E8500. The higher clock speed on the E8500 is nice, but I keep seeing more instances of programs or games taking advantage of multi core technology. I would also like to overclock a bit (this is my first time doing this), and I have heard the Q6600 can get around 3.2Ghz with little effort, and the E8500 gets around 3.8Ghz.

So, my next question is what CPU cooler should I get?

...

If you guys have any comments, I would love to hear it. The CPU and cooler are my biggest concerns at this point.One thing to think about, the E8500 (like the rest of the desktop Core 2 Duo line) has a TDP of 65W, while the Q6600 has a TDP of 95W. A C2D should run somewhat cooler than a C2Q.

[LiquidRain]

The ASUS M3N78 series is the recommended AM2+ mobo right now . I picked it up, and it seems great.

And, uh, nuclear power required (http://techreport.com/articles.x/16382/12)? Sure, if nuclear power to you is a whopping 15W extra under full load. Check out the idle CPU numbers - 20W less for an X4 on idle compared to the Q6600 on idle. How much more time is your computer going to spend in idle than going full throttle? Wouldn't the idle save you more money/power?

Trust me. I spent 2 days researching my products. The X4 is an awesome buy or I would not have bought one yesterday. (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showpost.php?p=183147&postcount=187) And if you don't want quad core power, the X3 720 is mighty appealing as well, especially at its price.

This is why I spend days on end researching my PC parts before buying. :)

[Ancalagon]

The Asus M3A78 T is also a good choice, so I hear.

[LiquidRain]

Yes, but AMD boards have broken AHCI. (e: that is the advanced mode functionality for SATA drives, it helps a little sometimes) HDD throughput on nVidia chipsets are way better. (though, I believe the AMD boards suck down less power)

Don't forget that the X4 940 is faster (and I don't mean in raw MHz, I mean in benchmarks) than the Q6600 and the Q8300. So the extra power consumed is because it's more powerful. Look at the total energy consumed graphs from that TechReport article I linked.

[total]

I was thinking that it might be better to get something like the GTX 260 just because I play at 1680x1050. Do you know how well the 4850 does at higher resolutions?

I am running a E7300 (not overclocked at all) with a 4850 and my native resolution is 1680x1050. The only game I can't play cranked all the way up so far is Farcry 2. Fallout 3, L4D and Shadowrun all run great on it.

[biosc1]

I am running a E7300 (not overclocked at all) with a 4850 and my native resolution is 1680x1050. The only game I can't play cranked all the way up so far is Farcry 2. Fallout 3, L4D and Shadowrun all run great on it.

Agreed. Heck, I used an 8800GT at 1680x1050 and it did superbly...The 4850 does an excellent job, according to all the benchmarks.

ps...I'm really liking the E7X00 chips for a CPU choice.

[LiquidRain]

The E7200 processors are excellent budget choices.

But if you're getting a quad core and you want gaming performance, I'd consider a Phenom II the minimum. The next I'd buy is a Q9550. If you don't want to shell out that cash, get an E8400 or E8500 instead.

e: I really hope Harle's listening and canceling his order, or he's in for a world of hurt as he realizes he can get way better performance, better efficiency, better idle power consumption, at a much better bang:buck by listening to me.

[total]

Agreed. Heck, I used an 8800GT at 1680x1050 and it did superbly...The 4850 does an excellent job, according to all the benchmarks.

ps...I'm really liking the E7X00 chips for a CPU choice.

I paid a total of like $500 for this entire rig and I couldn't be happier. No instant rebates or any of that BS either. I was a bit hesitant at first, thinking that I wouldn't be able to run games cranked all the way up. Man was I wrong.

[harle]

I really hope Harle's listening and canceling his order, or he's in for a world of hurt as he realizes he can get way better performance, better efficiency, better idle power consumption, at a much better bang:buck by listening to me.Well it shipped as of a couple hours ago, so it looks like there is no turning back now. :) I was looking at your article beforehand, and the Phenom II 940 only looked like it significantly beat the Q6600 in rendering tests, not general computing or games. I will be using this for mainly for general computing and games. I will not be doing any rendering, graphic design, or anything like that.

Now, I can STILL return the motherboard and processor for a refund if I change my mind. Are you sure that that the difference in power is that much to justify me returning it? If I can get the Q6600 to 3.2 Ghz or above, am I going to see a big difference if I get the Phenom around 3.8Ghz (assuming I overclock either one)?

[LiquidRain]

I don't know what article you read. From the benchmarks themselves on that article I linked:

Unreal Tournament 3:
Phenom II 940: 128.6fps
Q6600: 90fps

Half-Life 2 Episode 2:
Phenom II 940: 167.9fps
Q6600: 138.2fps

The differences in Far Cry 2 and Crysis were less pronounced, since those also stress the GPU, but in general the Phenom II leads the way the whole time.

If we use that admittedly small sample set I posted above, you are getting approximately 1.4x the performance in UT and 1.2x the performance in Episode 2 (which is not multi-core optimized) for 1.04x the power consumption on load. For 1.15x the price.

The Q6600 is a 2 year old processor. It has no chance of beating the Phenom II. It was one of the very first quads and it shows in the synthetic benchmarks such as memory bandwidth and latency. The Phenom II's lead will continue to pull away as it overclocks since it is not hobbled the same way a Q6600 by such things, and not to mention the Phenom II 940 has an unlocked multiplier - meaning your motherboard and memory do not limit you in any way.

At the very least, for gaming, an E8400 or E8500 would have kicked the crap out of that Q6600 and overclocked way more. Again, refer to the benchmarks, and my general advice that if you don't have a need for the multi-threaded processing power of a quad core, and want gaming, head for the E8500.

I'd return that Q6600 and get the E8500 instead in a heart beat if I were you if your primary concerns are cooling and gaming.

[harle]

I'd return that Q6600 and get the E8500 instead in a heart beat if I were you if your primary concerns are cooling and gaming.I was actually going to do exactly this until I learned that my order had shipped. :) I definitely see your point with the Phenom II's, but I have kind of turned into an Intel fanboy after working around so many computers with it.

Edit: Well Newegg is a little bitch. It's just shipped and I went to RMA the processor. A nice $29.55 restocking fee is attached! So much for ordering with them again. I will just go with Zipzoomfly or some other place that offers a 30 day satisfaction guarantee without the 15% restocking fee.

[cp#]

4850 has no problem with 1680x1050, 8xAA, 16xAF. My CPU is an overclocked E8400

[LiquidRain]

I was actually going to do exactly this until I learned that my order had shipped. :) I definitely see your point with the Phenom II's, but I have kind of turned into an Intel fanboy after working around so many computers with it.
Being a fanboy is generally a very bad thing when it comes to computer hardware. Ask nVidia fanboys during the GeForceFX days, or AMD fans until last month. You're lining yourself up for a poor choice by sticking to one brand exclusively.

This is coming from a self-admitted mild AMD fanboy. :) I would never have bought the original Phenom series, but when the Phenom II came out I knew I wanted it. The benchmarks just made it so I could buy a Phenom II knowing I actually was getting a good deal, the fact that it was only 30 bucks more than an E8500 for me was great. (Canadian) That, in combination with nVidia's Hybrid Power SLI (only available on AMD platforms) made me take the jump.

[Spectre-7]

Being a fanboy is generally a very bad thing when it comes to computer hardware. Ask nVidia fanboys during the GeForceFX days, or AMD fans until last month. You're lining yourself up for a poor choice by sticking to one brand exclusively.

Yeah, that one still stings. Alas, I've hated ATI so long (since the days of the original 3D Rage) that I just don't know any other way.

[harle]

Being a fanboy is generally a very bad thing when it comes to computer hardware. Ask nVidia fanboys during the GeForceFX days, or AMD fans until last month. You're lining yourself up for a poor choice by sticking to one brand exclusively.

This is coming from a self-admitted mild AMD fanboy. :) I would never have bought the original Phenom series, but when the Phenom II came out I knew I wanted it. The benchmarks just made it so I could buy a Phenom II knowing I actually was getting a good deal, the fact that it was only 30 bucks more than an E8500 for me was great. (Canadian) That, in combination with nVidia's Hybrid Power SLI (only available on AMD platforms) made me take the jump.Well I guess we both are fanboys then. :)

Everything should ship tomorrow, so I will give some impressions on the new rig next week! I still need to order a CPU cooler so I can finally try out overclocking.

You got the Thermalight HR 01, right Liquid? I see that it did not come with a fan. Are you going to use one of the nexus fans? I am still contemplating whether to get that cooler or the Xigmatech 1283.

[Grifter]

Just ordered the following parts for a friend which I'll be putting together on Tuesday.

Tower
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147083

PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341018

Motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358

CPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037

RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166

Video Card
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130448

Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136298

It all came to $847.10 (after shipping) with $85 in mail in rebates so after all is said and done you are looking at a very competent and overclockable gaming rig for about $770. I'll let you know how the build goes when we are done. It'll be my first time working with a Rosewill case so hopefully it all goes smoothly.

[LiquidRain]

Well I guess we both are fanboys then. :)

Everything should ship tomorrow, so I will give some impressions on the new rig next week! I still need to order a CPU cooler so I can finally try out overclocking.

You got the Thermalight HR 01, right Liquid? I see that it did not come with a fan. Are you going to use one of the nexus fans? I am still contemplating whether to get that cooler or the Xigmatech 1283.

I am using the Thermalright HR-01 Plus. It's a beast alright, and bloody expensive to boot. I intend to use a Scythe fan as reviewed here at SPCR (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article832-page3.html#SS-M) since I can buy those locally. (the Nexus fans I have are the orange kind with closed ends that stop them from working with Thermalright's fan clips, and the Scythe fan is actually rated better than Nexus by the SPCR guys!)

And, in my defense, while I may be an AMD fan, there are plenty of situations where Intel chips are called for. If my home server broke 2 months ago I'd be sporting an E8500 and an ASUS P5Q, I guarantee it. If I was building a brand new HTPC I'd use an E5200. If I wanted high-end quad core performance I'd go Q9550. I was actually going to hold out for Core i5 (desktop version of i7) but that isn't coming till much later this year, and I needed to replace my home server since it was dying. AMD was my best value for my budget today, so I picked it up.

[harle]

I am using the Thermalright HR-01 Plus. It's a beast alright, and bloody expensive to boot. I intend to use a Scythe fan as reviewed here at SPCR (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article832-page3.html#SS-M) since I can buy those locally. (the Nexus fans I have are the orange kind with closed ends that stop them from working with Thermalright's fan clips, and the Scythe fan is actually rated better than Nexus by the SPCR guys!)

And, in my defense, while I may be an AMD fan, there are plenty of situations where Intel chips are called for. If my home server broke 2 months ago I'd be sporting an E8500 and an ASUS P5Q, I guarantee it. If I was building a brand new HTPC I'd use an E5200. If I wanted high-end quad core performance I'd go Q9550. I was actually going to hold out for Core i5 (desktop version of i7) but that isn't coming till much later this year, and I needed to replace my home server since it was dying. AMD was my best value for my budget today, so I picked it up.I was looking at Silentpcreview and found a few nexus fans that sounded like the were the most ambient out there: Scythe (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article832-page3.html#SS-M) | Nexus (http://www.silentpcreview.com/article695-page2.html). Is this the nexus fan that you were referring to? Are you going for cooling power or ambience? It looks like at 12v, the Nexus is at 22dba while the scythe is at 28dba. I personally am going for ambience, and that was why I wanted the nexus fan. :)

Edit: It looks like there are some scythe fans in that same article that reach 21dba at 12v. I guess I should have read ahead. :)

[LiquidRain]

The Nexus may be 22dba and the Scythe 28dba, but look at their CFM (cubic feet per minute - a measurement of moving air) numbers. The Scythe pushes more, as well as undervolting better. If you really want quiet, you'll be undervolting. :)

I have the orange flavour of Nexus fans as well as one Scythe SL12M, the one I linked. I haven't undervolted the Scythe but once I do I'll let ya know how it goes. The Nexus fans have always been champs for me, though.

[Jackel]

I picked up the Zalman 9700. It does a really good job of cooling (albeit it is a tad loud).

[LiquidRain]

I picked up the Zalman 9700. It does a really good job of cooling (albeit it is a tad loud).
The problem with a lot of Zalman coolers is that their fans are sub-standard, from a noise perspective. The Zalman fan was easily the loudest component on my old Socket 939 desktop.