Freaking Bicyclists! WTF is wrong with them?

[Inspector Fowler]

So here's a low-level rant. And let me start it off by saying that when the weather is warm, I bike to work. 8 miles one way, and some nasty hills - great workout for this fat guy! I have the road tires and the flat repair kit and the saddle bags and the 8 billion watt light, etc. However, I also follow the rules of the road religiously because A - I don't wanna get hit, and B - If I get hit and live I wanna sue the shit out of the guy who hit me.

With that said, what the hell is up with bike riders and their attitude? I can write a guy a $150 speeding ticket and he won't flinch. I can write a bike rider a $25 ticket for running a stop sign and making some car screech to a stop or almost hitting another student, and it's nothing but attitude. What the hell? I'm just trying to bring some order to the chaos of 25,000 students, guys. I don't even stop people unless it's flagrant.

My favorite line? "But I looked both ways!" Hmm. If you didn't see the BIG WHITE COP CAR then I'm guessing you didn't look real hard. But don't worry. You won't ever get hit (except two cyclists have already been hurt this year when they ran stop signs).

Then you have the "professional" riders. They don their spandex, and ride to work like every day is the Tour de France, only they forget that they don't have the motorcycle escorts! Lanes, stop signs, red lights, etc all mean nothing to these guys because they are "athletes" and are trying to set a personal best time or just keep up a pace. If I come to a four-way stop and one of these guys isn't going to stop (and I have the right of way, only then!) I'll pull right the hell out and make them come skidding to a halt.

Damn, just because you're on a bike doesn't mean you're the God of the roadways.

Pant...pant...slobber...

My city is considered very bike-friendly (and I can vouch for that as a cyclist who has seen some other places that are very dangerous for bikes). But there have been some wrecks lately, and a death. The death was not the bike rider's fault, the guy just got 8 years in prison for killing a professor at the college where I work.

But somehow now the cyclists are having summits and pressing for all this ridiculous legislation trying to make it safe for bikes. Safe? Uh, guys, it's not safe riding a bike, end of story. If you stay in the bike line, turn as expected (from the turn lane, not across 3 lanes of traffic!), stop when you're supposed to, and make sure you light up like a landing plane at night, you're doing everything you can.

But half the bike riders won't do these things, get livid when you hold them accountable, and then demand that the cars kowtow to them to "make it safer". I bet that 50% of the cyclists I see break a law within 100 yards of me spotting them. How the hell can these guys "demand" that new laws are passed to make things safer for them?

[Wackman3000]

Not sure about the laws where you are, but do you have to ride your bike on the streets there as well and get a ticket for riding on the sidewalk?

Personally a cop could write me 10000 tickets before I will EVER ride my bike on the roads with the rest of traffic. I do not trust drivers at ALL and sidewalks around here are always BARE.

We have started getting better with building actual bike paths along more popular streets which has been helping to avoid the stupidity of drivers hitting cyclists. Pretty sure we had at least a handful of incidents like that last year, yet I heard nothing about any cyclists hitting pedestrians on the sidewalk.

edit: Not trying to bash you or anything, just curious as to the laws around you and your actual stance on cyclists on the sidewalks. It's been a serious debate around this city for a few years now.

[Inspector Fowler]

Our city has TONS of bike paths and lanes. On my 8 miles to work, there is not a single foot where I do not have a bike lane.

State law says that you need to ride as far to the right as possible when there is no bike path. In the few places where there is a sidewalk but no bike path, you're supposed to be in the street.

Keep in mind that for me, on campus, there are thousands of kids using the sidewalks to get to classes, and if the bikes try to ride there instead of the bike lanes (campus has tons of bike lanes/paths anyway) it would get hairy fast. Out in the city? I suppose I could stop bikes and ticket them for riding on the sidewalk, but fortunately for me the city gets territorial about that.

I never ride on the sidewalks, and the reason is like I said in the first post - if I am on the sidewalk, and enter an intersection, and get hit, the first thing their insurance company is going to point out (before denying my claim) is that I was not riding within state law.

[DylonCorp]

I only travel by bike or foot, been six years since my last car. Boise is pretty good on bike commuters, but yeah, they get all kinds of attitude. I hate most people on a bike that aren't me. Ride three, four abreast, don't yield at red lights or stop signs, generally pissing me off.

[Sl1pstream]

Then you have the "professional" riders. They don their spandex, and ride to work like every day is the Tour de France, only they forget that they don't have the motorcycle escorts! Lanes, stop signs, red lights, etc all mean nothing to these guys because they are "athletes" and are trying to set a personal best time or just keep up a pace. If I come to a four-way stop and one of these guys isn't going to stop (and I have the right of way, only then!) I'll pull right the hell out and make them come skidding to a halt.

You forgot to mention that these assholes think that they're more important than us normal recreational of functional riders and that they refuse to use their bell, even though they have one. :p

I hate them so much.

[Young Al Capone]

I hate most people on a bike that aren't me.

Word, especially since this whole fixie thing happened. Unfortunately I went fixed before I knew it was trendy and now I have to deal with them trying to talk to me. Most other bicyclists, and I wish it wasn't the case but it just is, feel entitled on the road and act like assholes. I do my best to stay in neighborhoods and on bike paths, never take the main arteries and generally obey the traffic laws and it really isn't hard, and the worst part is as a biker you get lumped in with the assholes and are always getting fucked with.

[Goronmon]

I actually worry more about getting hit by a bicyclist crossing the street at a light than I do by cars. The bikes are smaller, thus harder to notice, and I have never seen one stop at a red light before. One of these times I'm going to clothesline one of those guys if they try that while I'm trying to cross.

[Everyone vs Dinosaurs]

I like to don my spandex on occasion, but the Dino abides.

I don't want to get hit again, it is terrifying as hell.

[Whunpo]

I'm a bicyclist. I ride pretty much everywhere with by bike. I probably preform some of those dangerous moves you complain about. However, I can think of one incident where a car has had to brake for me. This was my fault. I was tired, they were speeding, and I didn't look. I have to swerve out of the way of a car that cuts in front of me once a month or so.
However, I do ride in the roads (downtown, mainly) and I cut across roads. It's entirely possible to do this safely. I agree that there are bicyclist that need to be more careful, but I think that cars are just as bad, if not worse.I like to don my spandex on occasion, but the Dino abides.

I don't want to get hit again, it is terrifying as hell.
When were you hit? Are we talking about the time you ran into the stopped car, or another time?

[Everyone vs Dinosaurs]

When I was turned into on Coburg Road.

[rinichanraar]

Ugh, I get fed up with most of the bikers I encounter in San Francisco. A lot of them act as if they're above the law. I always see them speeding by stop signs and taking ridiculous wide turns that force everyone in the intersection to wait. Not to mention they get really goddamn close to cars.

Sure there are bicyclists who follow the rules, but most of the ones I see don't. They give good bikers a bad name!

[Whunpo]

When I was turned into on Coburg Road.Why do I not remember this?

Ugh, I get fed up with most of the bikers I encounter in San Francisco. A lot of them act as if they're above the law. I always see them speeding by stop signs and taking ridiculous wide turns that force everyone in the intersection to wait. Not to mention they get really goddamn close to cars.

Sure there are bicyclists who follow the rules, but most of the ones I see don't. They give good bikers a bad name!
Yeah. San Fransisco has a reputation for idiotic bicyclists. With those hills, it doesn't seem like somewhere to fuck around on a bike.

[Narradisall]

I hate the 'professional' riders and their 'I stop for nothign attitude' adding on the holier than thou I'm not killing the planet white tower bullshit.

Last year one ran down a girl in london shouting 'move, i'm not stopping' because he was doing a time trial, hit her and killed her outright.

Fucker walked free too.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

I mostly stick to sidewalks (in areas of heavy traffic) when I get to town on my bike, and the 5 miles of highway or so before I get there I'm as far right on the shoulder as I can possibly be. I don't trust other drivers when I am driving a car, there is no way I'm taking chances when I don't have 600lbs of metal around me. I don't blow stop signs or red lights either, when I'm on my bike, I consider myself a faster moving pedestrian, so I stick to those rules.

I probably wouldn't ride my bike to town if I were forced to ride in the road with other traffic.

[Johan]

But half the [insert any group of people here] won't do these things, get livid when you hold them accountable, and then demand that the [insert any OTHER group of people here] kowtow to them to "[insert former group's demands here]".

People get upset when held accountable? HOLY SHIT! I CAN'T BELIEVE IT! :)

[Inspector Fowler]

People get upset when held accountable? HOLY SHIT! I CAN'T BELIEVE IT! :)

Heh. It's just that I can write 20 speeding tickets (doing 10-19 over here is $150+ in county court) and maybe 2 of them will give me a little attitude. If I write bike tickets, I bet that half of them do!

And don't get me wrong - Like I said, I'm a cyclist and I defend them when the cars do wrong. Last week I cited a gal for careless resulting in injury when she turned in front of a bike (who was riding correctly, on the right side, parallel to traffic) and hit him. He got a head wound - good thing he was right outside the student health center! There were like 3 doctors there before somebody even called 911! :)

On that note also, please wear a helmet. This guy would have walked home (rather, I would have given him a ride) if he had been wearing one. Instead the fire department was washing his blood down the gutter for me (kinda graphic but true - he sustained no other injuries other than a nasty bump/gash on his forehead).

[GunnyMo]

I totally agree with you, Fowler. I freakin' hate cyclists that think they are a goddamn car. When I see them in left hand turn lanes it bugs the ever living shit out of me. Cross at the sidewalk, you moron! Or riding down the middle of the lane on a two lane road. I really hate them with a passion.

[mesh]

I've travelled on foot for over a decade. What I've seen from motorist, bicyclist and pedestrians alike is one thing, they don't care about anyone or any rules as long as they pass first.

That includes cars that slow down, not stop at stop signs and even lights. Bicycles that nearly deck you for 'daring' to cross the street they're on (even when they don't stop at the light you're crossing). People that walk 3 people wide and are insulted when you're one on trying to pass the other way on the sidewalk.

I've long stopped caring about signs and other official means of controlling the masses during transport. I watch them directly, I've passed the wrong way many times just so I could avoid being in front of a motorist to cross the street. I don't trust anyone, be it in a motor vehicule, bike or on foot.

Heck, one time a car would have rammed into an opposing vehicule, had to swerve into the opposing lane to 'avoid' me when they didn't bother to do a stop on a curve. Lucky for them, the opposing lane was empty.

And I've seen cops just as bad, including one that nearly ran me over in a police car -while I was walking on a dirt bicycle/pedestrian back alley. Another was going in a 1-lane, 1-way street the wrong way.

As far as I'm concerned anytime I'm outside it's a jungle and the only way I don't get to become roadkill is by making sure I'm ten feet away from anything else in movement.

[nnanji]

I totally agree with you, Fowler. I freakin' hate cyclists that think they are a goddamn car. When I see them in left hand turn lanes it bugs the ever living shit out of me. Cross at the sidewalk, you moron! Or riding down the middle of the lane on a two lane road. I really hate them with a passion.

I generally agree with the bikers are dicks sentiment, but I have to point out that the biker is obeying the law when he turns left from the left hand lane. Bikes are treated like vehicles, and follow the same rules for making turns as cars. They are not pedestrians. That's why they aren't allowed on the sidewalks, and that's why they don't use crosswalks.

[total]

Here in Saint Paul they like to ride in the middle of the road, when there is a fucking bike lane.

When I was younger I owned a couple motorcycles and did a lot of rollerblading and skating. I know what the rules of the road are. If I ever had any doubts I would do the same thing I would do if I were driving a truck (I've only ever owned trucks and Jeeps). So yielding, stopping at red lights, stopping at stop signs, that sort of thing.

So one day I am driving up by Summit Hill which is one of the richest neighborhoods in Saint Paul. I was coming to a three way stop and had it clear all ways except a biker who was riding in the middle of the road (again, bike lane is right there) coming up to a stop sign. I had the right of way so I pulled out. He runs the stop sign completely, not even a slight slow down. He runs up to the side of my Jeep and starts hitting it with his fist, no bullshit. So I pull over to the side of the road and get out of my Jeep. He bikes up to me and starts calling me an asshole and starts cussing at me and what not. I am completely blown away by this guy who is clearly in the wrong. I tell him flat out that he ran that stop sign and simply didn't have the right of way, and that if he had been riding in the bike lane in the first place there would be no issue. He starts in on me about destroying the environment with my massive SUV and how he shouldn't have the same rules applied to him as are applied to motor vehicles. I told him that we could easily call the police and that in this neighborhood they would be there in like 5 minutes. He flips me the bird and rides off.

So yeah, some bikers have some fucking issues man. If I was on my motorcycle and pulled some of the shit they did I would be dead. Plain and simple.

[Johan]

I generally agree with the bikers are dicks sentiment

I think you're unnecessarily restricting that sentiment. Expand it...to cover about 6.5 billion people. :D

[Felonous]

This may placate all of your anti-biker rage a bit:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29211423

[Deadend]

In my area, people do not ride bikes. The only places in riding distance are other people, and the roads are not bike friendly, so sometimes they use the sidewalk. Not like anyone walks either.

Yay Michigan.

[Disgustipated]

Here in Saint Paul they like to ride in the middle of the road, when there is a fucking bike lane.

When I was younger I owned a couple motorcycles and did a lot of rollerblading and skating. I know what the rules of the road are. If I ever had any doubts I would do the same thing I would do if I were driving a truck (I've only ever owned trucks and Jeeps). So yielding, stopping at red lights, stopping at stop signs, that sort of thing.

So one day I am driving up by Summit Hill which is one of the richest neighborhoods in Saint Paul. I was coming to a three way stop and had it clear all ways except a biker who was riding in the middle of the road (again, bike lane is right there) coming up to a stop sign. I had the right of way so I pulled out. He runs the stop sign completely, not even a slight slow down. He runs up to the side of my Jeep and starts hitting it with his fist, no bullshit. So I pull over to the side of the road and get out of my Jeep. He bikes up to me and starts calling me an asshole and starts cussing at me and what not. I am completely blown away by this guy who is clearly in the wrong. I tell him flat out that he ran that stop sign and simply didn't have the right of way, and that if he had been riding in the bike lane in the first place there would be no issue. He starts in on me about destroying the environment with my massive SUV and how he shouldn't have the same rules applied to him as are applied to motor vehicles. I told him that we could easily call the police and that in this neighborhood they would be there in like 5 minutes. He flips me the bird and rides off.

So yeah, some bikers have some fucking issues man. If I was on my motorcycle and pulled some of the shit they did I would be dead. Plain and simple.

You should have strangled that douche with his helmet. What a fucknugget.

[evilgoodwin]

The ones on the sidewalk have the least concern for their safety. Too many times have I almost hit one in this scenario:

I'm at the exit to a parking lot, turning right. I'm mainly looking left, but also right, to make sure I don't pull out into someone who's stopped. So far so good, not really looking at the sidewalk. Finally, I have an opening and I start to pull out when I glance left and see a biker swerve in front of me on the sidewalk coming the OPPOSITE WAY. They flip me off for almost hitting them, and I lose my opening. Not the end of the world, but frustrating.

It's just.... they seem to pick and choose the laws they obey... You're not a pedestrian, you ARE a vehicle. Don't cross just because the crosswalk's ready, cross when the light turns green (on a side note, when someone is turning right and they're in the bike lane, fucking be mindful of this and don't cut them off and get mad if they almost hit you. Be fucking mindful of your damn surroundings. Is getting a face-full of car/pavement really worth it for not taking a 10 second breather during your exercise?)

[wyeast]

Sure there are bicyclists who follow the rules, but most of the ones I see don't. They give good bikers a bad name!
This is very true. We have a lot of cyclists in this town. Some clothed, some naked. :D

Many cyclists around here follow most of the laws, but a fair number flout the laws as some attempt to exact revenge on years of oppression by motorists.

My wife, who commutes by bike every day, finds it hilarious when she'll come alongside some hipster fixie hell bent on blowing every red light (which she's stopped at) for the sake of "saving momentum", yet she'll keep catching up to him on her clunker commuter bike. :p :D

[wyeast]

It's just.... they seem to pick and choose the laws they obey... You're not a pedestrian, you ARE a vehicle.

This is exactly it. They cherry pick among pedestrian and vehicle rights. I once had this jackhole blazing along the sidewalk (illegal downtown, btw) crossing in the wrong direction, and he was pissed at *me* for blocking his way. (I was in the middle of making a right turn)

Yelled and smacked the side of my car. Fucker. :mad:

[Smoof]

Just from reading your OP, IF, I can already tell you live/work in Boulder. Ugh.

[GunnyMo]

I generally agree with the bikers are dicks sentiment, but I have to point out that the biker is obeying the law when he turns left from the left hand lane. Bikes are treated like vehicles, and follow the same rules for making turns as cars. They are not pedestrians. That's why they aren't allowed on the sidewalks, and that's why they don't use crosswalks.

I know that but when some dipshit biker gets in the left turn lane with a light that is triggered by an actual car and not timed, you spend forever waiting for the numbnut to figure it out and move.

Bike paths/side of the road are one thing but riding in the middle of a lane can be a huge impediment to legitimate traffic.

Stupid bikes.

[DylonCorp]

Stupid bikes.

Now, let's get this straight. The bikes do nothing wrong. It is simply the humans operating them.

Stupid humans.

[Disgustipated]

People don't have the balls to ride bikes like that in Southern California. They'll get lawnmowered under someone's car. Only place I can think of that has bikers like that is San Francisco.

[Savok]

rAOHhV1EFe4

[rifter]

I actually hit a guy on a bike last year. I was pulling out from work, onto a road with a decent amount of traffic. Out of nowhere, he came out in front of my car, bounced off my hood, and fell down. Freaked me out. He read me the riot act for not watching out for people on bikes... I took it, since he was going to just take off, but I REALLY wanted to point out, that he was riding FAST, across an intersection, while riding on a sidewalk, going AGAINST traffic (wrong side of the road)... He came out from behind some large SUVs, which meant I couldn't see very far down the sidewalk. Plenty of distance to see a person RUNNING ... but not a guy on a bike going at a break-neck speed. grrr

For the most part, people on bikes are not bad... at least normally, I see them from a car... when they REALLY scare me, is when I am walking through a park or down our greenbelt.

[diablopath]

This thread makes me wish I could rely on bicycle transit.
-.-

[MagGnome]

I'm mainly looking left, but also right, to make sure I don't pull out into someone who's stopped. So far so good, not really looking at the sidewalk.

Yeah, except you should be looking at the sidewalk. Pedestrians (such as myself) are not obligated to stand at a crossing and wait for every motor vehicle, unless of course there is a traffic light involved. You should always watch the sidewalks while exiting a parking lot, driveway, etc.

-----------------------

Drivers can complain about bikers all day long, but I've seen much worse behavior from drivers than I ever see from those on their bikes. Do I worry about being hit by bikers? Of course, but I've only come close to being hit by a biker a few times in my whole life. I have close calls with drivers multiple times a week, because they are impatient, don't pay attention, and always think they have the right of way.

For starters, stay out of the crosswalk! Cars are supposed to come to a stop BEFORE the crosswalk, not in the damn thing! Also, do not honk your horn at me when I am legally crossing the street. I'm sorry you have to wait in your heated vehicle while I freeze my ass off. :sarcasm:

There, now I feel better.

a huge impediment to legitimate traffic.

WTF? That's a great example of the attitude I see from drivers.

[evilgoodwin]

People don't have the balls to ride bikes like that in Southern California. They'll get lawnmowered under someone's car. Only place I can think of that has bikers like that is San Francisco.

I'm so putting a blade under my car. For science.

Yeah, except you should be looking at the sidewalk. Pedestrians (such as myself) are not obligated to stand at a crossing and wait for every motor vehicle, unless of course there is a traffic light involved. You should always watch the sidewalks while exiting a parking lot, driveway, etc.


To be fair, I admit it's impossible to look right without seeing any of the sidewalk and noting where pedestrians are. However, he was still on the sidewalk riding the wrong way, and I did not see him the first time I looked. Did he round a corner? I have no idea. Should I have checked one last time? Sure. But it's not my fault he was in the wrong.

And sure, I will admit that drivers are more prone to rage and misbehavior. There are a LOT of bad drivers out there. But there's a lot of bad cyclists too. STOP OPERATING YOUR VEHICLE BAD.

EDIT: And that video is GOLD.

[rifter]

WTF? That's a great example of the attitude I see from drivers.

Dude, are you serious? Really, you cherry pick THAT piece out of GM's quote... where he is bitching about bike riders in the middle of the FREAKING STREET, which really IS impeding traffic. You make GM out to be in the wrong, when he is complaining about bike riders that really ARE in the wrong?

After reading your response, and your attitude... and the complaints about honking... it makes me think you are THAT GUY that slowly steps out on the street, and meanders along, holding up traffic that is trying to turn... and being a pain to drivers. When I am a pedestrian, I am SNAPPY on moving, since I KNOW people in cars do not want to wait on my slow ass.

I have NO clue if you are that guy, but you make a good case for being that guy. Have a clue, everyone wants to get where they are going, with the least hold up possible. Are you part of the problem, or the solution to that? When driving, watch out for pedestrians, give them the right of way, when crossing at a cross walk. It goes the OTHER way too... don't jay walk, get out of the way, don't just slowly move across the crosswalk, since you ARE holding up traffic... whether legal or not. Don't be an Oblivion (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,252838,00.html).

[MagGnome]

To be fair, I admit it's impossible to look right without seeing any of the sidewalk and noting where pedestrians are. However, he was still on the sidewalk riding the wrong way, and I did not see him the first time I looked. Did he round a corner? I have no idea. Should I have checked one last time? Sure. But it's not my fault he was in the wrong

It does sound as if that cyclist was clearly in the wrong. I read your post as saying that you never bother to check the sidewalk, and I took issue with that. I saw a woman get knocked off of her bike a last summer because a guy pulled out of a parking lot suddenly. Five seconds later and it would have been me - scary stuff. Luckily she was mostly okay, just shaken up with some bumps and bruises.

[MagGnome]

Dude, are you serious? Really, you cherry pick THAT piece out of GM's quote... where he is bitching about bike riders in the middle of the FREAKING STREET, which really IS impeding traffic. You make GM out to be in the wrong, when he is complaining about bike riders that really ARE in the wrong?

After reading your response, and your attitude... and the complaints about honking... it makes me think you are THAT GUY that slowly steps out on the street, and meanders along, holding up traffic that is trying to turn... and being a pain to drivers. When I am a pedestrian, I am SNAPPY on moving, since I KNOW people in cars do not want to wait on my slow ass.

I have NO clue if you are that guy, but you make a good case for being that guy. Have a clue, everyone wants to get where they are going, with the least hold up possible. Are you part of the problem, or the solution to that? When driving, watch out for pedestrians, give them the right of way, when crossing at a cross walk. It goes the OTHER way too... don't jay walk, get out of the way, don't just slowly move across the crosswalk, since you ARE holding up traffic... whether legal or not. Don't be an Oblivion (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,252838,00.html).


Yeah, thanks for the lecture. :p

I walk very quickly when I am out and about, so you are wrong about me. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Goronmon]

Drivers can complain about bikers all day long, but I've seen much worse behavior from drivers than I ever see from those on their bikes.I have never seen someone on a bicycle stop at a stop sign or red light unless traffic from another direction was directly impeding their movement forward.

[MagGnome]

I have never seen someone on a bicycle stop at a stop sign or red light unless traffic from another direction was directly impeding their movement forward.

The vast majority of the bikers here obey traffic rules, at least from what I've seen. Then again Minneapolis has a huge cycling population, even during the cold winters.

[Everyone vs Dinosaurs]

I totally agree with you, Fowler. I freakin' hate cyclists that think they are a goddamn car. When I see them in left hand turn lanes it bugs the ever living shit out of me. Cross at the sidewalk, you moron! Or riding down the middle of the lane on a two lane road. I really hate them with a passion.

I hate to break it to you, but Cyclist have just as much right to the road as you do. (At least turning lanes)

[Wolvie]

Inspector, I have the same problem here in my town, only it's not bicyclists, it's pedestrians. On any given day I see people walking right down the middle of the road! They're not on the sidewalks where they belong, or even up on the curb, but sauntering right down the center of the driving lane, as if they own the friggen road.

On three separate occasions I have seen this. The first was a mother and her kids standing in the middle of the road(I'm guessing in front of their house), blocking the lane, ignoring me, and only moving after I honked and politely told them to get the fuck out of the way.

The second was a young lad, an old man, and a middle aged woman all walking right down the road, making me come to a crawl behind them. The old man turns around and has the nerve to go "what?" I gesture to the side of the road looking at him like he's retarded. They got out of the way, but acted like I was the asshole.

The last was right in front of my house. I pull out, and am forced to stop because two skater kids are walking in front of me. They turn around and one of them spreads his arms apart with a "what?" look, like he's trying to be gangster. I spew some swear words, flip the dipshit off, tell him to "get the fuck on the grass" and peel out around them, doing my best not to hit them, yet give them something to think about.

And don't get me started on the idiots that don't stop at stop signs... :mad:

I swear, there must be something in the water in my town that makes people retarded. It's a good thing I only drink bottled iced tea, and soda. :D

[Whunpo]

I know that but when some dipshit biker gets in the left turn lane with a light that is triggered by an actual car and not timed, you spend forever waiting for the numbnut to figure it out and move.

Bike paths/side of the road are one thing but riding in the middle of a lane can be a huge impediment to legitimate traffic.

Stupid bikes.

You are an idiot if you think that a car has more of a right to the road than a bike does. Bicyclists legally have just as much of a right to the road as you do.
What's the difference between a bicycle and a car that makes a car more worthy of the road?

EDIT:
http://www.massbike.org/bikelaw/
Those laws are pretty standard across the states.

[total]

The vast majority of the bikers here obey traffic rules, at least from what I've seen. Then again Minneapolis has a huge cycling population, even during the cold winters.

In uptown maybe, but in downtown I've personally seen 2 people on bikes get hit blowing stop lights on Nicollet and 12th. I used to work down there. I always asked the bus drivers if they were having problems with the bikers down there and they always had plenty to say about them. I will give you that bikers in Minneapolis in general trend towards the more law abiding bikers compared to the ones in Saint Paul. Granted most of the bikers on Summit drive nothing less than a Mercedes to work everyday quite a few have a holier than thou mindset to begin with.

[evilgoodwin]

It does sound as if that cyclist was clearly in the wrong. I read your post as saying that you never bother to check the sidewalk, and I took issue with that. I saw a woman get knocked off of her bike a last summer because a guy pulled out of a parking lot suddenly. Five seconds later and it would have been me - scary stuff. Luckily she was mostly okay, just shaken up with some bumps and bruises.

Thank you, Gnome :)
I don't want to hit people with my car unless I get to know them first. And yes, you should ALWAYS LOOK, regardless of what how you're traveling. Almost smacked into a car that just assumed it was open and stopped late exiting a parking lot, making me swerve so they didn't hit me (same type of people who have to back up at a red light because they're too far in the intersection. what the fuck, people?)

[evilgoodwin]

Inspector, I have the same problem here in my town, only it's not bicyclists, it's pedestrians. On any given day I see people walking right down the middle of the road! They're not on the sidewalks where they belong, or even up on the curb, but sauntering right down the center of the driving lane, as if they own the friggen road.

On three separate occasions I have seen this. The first was a mother and her kids standing in the middle of the road(I'm guessing in front of their house), blocking the lane, ignoring me, and only moving after I honked and politely told them to get the fuck out of the way.

The second was a young lad, an old man, and a middle aged woman all walking right down the road, making me come to a crawl behind them. The old man turns around and has the nerve to go "what?" I gesture to the side of the road looking at him like he's retarded. They got out of the way, but acted like I was the asshole.

The last was right in front of my house. I pull out, and am forced to stop because two skater kids are walking in front of me. They turn around and one of them spreads his arms apart with a "what?" look, like he's trying to be gangster. I spew some swear words, flip the dipshit off, tell him to "get the fuck on the grass" and peel out around them, doing my best not to hit them, yet give them something to think about.

And don't get me started on the idiots that don't stop at stop signs... :mad:

I swear, there must be something in the water in my town that makes people retarded. It's a good thing I only drink bottled iced tea, and soda. :D

Austin is very "Pedestrian Friendly" too. It's like hearing that they have the right of way puts away their self-preservation instinct. During some big events down here where the streets are closed to through traffic (ie, blocking off downtown for festivals), I've watched trucks trying to deliver ice and booze honk at people who cut right in front of them because they can't wait the 4 seconds for them to pass, or even walk behind them. Nope, they're in such a hurry, they take on the same thought process as the little kid in Pet Sematary. Chase the ball into street without looking, honk honk, death, indian burial ground, etc. When did people stop fearing death by cars? Is this the fault of the lawyers?

[MagGnome]

In uptown maybe, but in downtown I've personally seen 2 people on bikes get hit blowing stop lights on Nicollet and 12th. I used to work down there. I always asked the bus drivers if they were having problems with the bikers down there and they always had plenty to say about them. I will give you that bikers in Minneapolis in general trend towards the more law abiding bikers compared to the ones in Saint Paul. Granted most of the bikers on Summit drive nothing less than a Mercedes to work everyday quite a few have a holier than thou mindset to begin with.

I've seen bikers break traffic laws as well, but it's a minority. I've also seen car drivers run lights, fail to yield, etc. It's hardly something unique to bicyclists.

The cyclists in St. Paul might be entirely different. I don't go there very often, so I couldn't say. I'm sure everyone living on Summit Hill is a pretentious prick (the governor included), so I'd recommend just avoiding that area all together. :p


Thank you, Gnome :)
I don't want to hit people with my car unless I get to know them first. And yes, you should ALWAYS LOOK, regardless of what how you're traveling. Almost smacked into a car that just assumed it was open and stopped late exiting a parking lot, making me swerve so they didn't hit me (same type of people who have to back up at a red light because they're too far in the intersection. what the fuck, people?)

That's one of my biggest pet peeves with other drivers - not stopping before the crosswalk. It endangers those walking by forcing them to walk out into the road. I had a guy yell at me once for walking too close to his car, while he was blocking the entire crosswalk!

[spcialk]

I'm an avid cyclist. Some cyclists are idiots, true. The only thing I come back to is that a mistake by a cyclist only endangers himself. When a person in a car fucks up, he kills people. It is incumbent upon drivers to pull their heads from their asses and pay attention, drive safer, and quit bitching about cyclists.

[ShivaX]

I'm an avid cyclist. Some cyclists are idiots, true. The only thing I come back to is that a mistake by a cyclist only endangers himself. When a person in a car fucks up, he kills people. It is incumbent upon drivers to pull their heads from their asses and pay attention, drive safer, and quit bitching about cyclists.

Unless a motorist tries to not kill a cyclist and ends up hurting someone else.

If I run across a busy highway I'm not just endangering myself, I'm endangering every person driving down the road. Just because my corpse isn't likely to kill anyone on its own doesn't mean I'm not a danger.

In my life I don't think I've ever seen a cyclist follow a traffic law.

[Mr. Murphy]

I'm an avid cyclist. Some cyclists are idiots, true. The only thing I come back to is that a mistake by a cyclist only endangers himself. When a person in a car fucks up, he kills people. It is incumbent upon drivers to pull their heads from their asses and pay attention, drive safer, and quit bitching about cyclists.

You make it sound like a motorist killing a bicyclist is no big deal to the motorist, when in fact it would completely fuck up their lives in huge ways. My brother killed a kid in an accident, and even tho it wasn't my brothers fault at all, he's never been the same.

[Inspector Fowler]

Just from reading your OP, IF, I can already tell you live/work in Boulder. Ugh.

THOSE, SIR, ARE FIGHTING WORDS. I DEMAND A RETRACTION :p

I live and work in Fort Collins.

[spcialk]

You make it sound like a motorist killing a bicyclist is no big deal to the motorist, when in fact it would completely fuck up their lives in huge ways. My brother killed a kid in an accident, and even tho it wasn't my brothers fault at all, he's never been the same.

Exactly, and if he'd been careful, or paying more attention, or aware of a cyclist, he wouldn't have that problem.

Sound harsh? It should be. I am sorry that your brother is fucked up now, but I feel worse for the dead guy.

[cp#]

I run every stop sign. My brakes don't really work, though. My daily round trip to school and back is only about 3 miles, though.

Pedestrians cause me problems, though. Like idiots on cell phones who just walk right out onto the street without looking (not even at a crosswalk)

[spcialk]

I run every stop sign. My brakes don't really work, though. My daily round trip to school and back is only about 3 miles, though.

Pedestrians cause me problems, though. Like idiots on cell phones who just walk right out onto the street without looking (not even at a crosswalk)

Fixie rider? 'cause I DO wanna round all of them up and force them to use gears and brakes. We invented science and innovation for a reason people.

[ShivaX]

Exactly, and if he'd been careful, or paying more attention, or aware of a cyclist, he wouldn't have that problem.

Sound harsh? It should be. I am sorry that your brother is fucked up now, but I feel worse for the dead guy.

You're an idiot. Theres no nice way to say it.

Some kid drives in front of a car and dies, obviously its the fault of the car?
Theres this thing called inertia. It involves a lot of math but suffice to say a 100 lb bike+kid moving at 10-12 mph is capable of stopping a hell of a lot easier than a big slab of steel that weighs 1-2 tons moving at 30+ mph.

You sound like the exact people we're talking about. "Look out for me because I'm special and laws don't apply to me. If I do something and get hurt or killed because of it, its your fault."

[ShivaX]

Double post.

[spcialk]

You're an idiot. Theres no nice way to say it.

Some kid drives in front of a car and dies, obviously its the fault of the car?
Theres this thing called inertia. It involves a lot of math but suffice to say a 100 lb bike+kid moving at 10-12 mph is capable of stopping a hell of a lot easier than a big slab of steel that weighs 1-2 tons moving at 30+ mph.

You sound like the exact people we're talking about. "Look out for me because I'm special and laws don't apply to me. If I do something and get hurt or killed because of it, its your fault."

Ha. Easy to call names, hard to make sense.

Look; even insurance companies (the most pain in the ass people in the world) will tell you that there is never a case of 100% fault. There will never be an instance where the driver can throw his hands in the air and legitimately say "There was nothing I could have done!".

Your "math", trolling and even more dubious "logic" wont save you from not actually making a valid point. Bottom line, is someone died....the driver should feel bad.

[wyeast]

Inspector, I have the same problem here in my town, only it's not bicyclists, it's pedestrians.
This. Fucking THIS.

Downtown is rife with idjits who jaywalk. I'm not talking about those who dash across when there's no cars coming. That's one thing. I'm talking about the fucksticks who saunter against a clear red, then glare at your ass like you're the one to blame. :mad:

Right of way is one thing. Right to be a dillhole is another.

[total]

The only thing I come back to is that a mistake by a cyclist only endangers himself. When a person in a car fucks up, he kills people.

Ignorant and arrogant all in one, nice post. There are a couple posts earlier about bikers running down pedestrians. If you aren't obeying the LAWS then you are endangering everyone on the road.

[OrangePulp]

Ha. Easy to call names, hard to make sense.

Look; even insurance companies (the most pain in the ass people in the world) will tell you that there is never a case of 100% fault. There will never be an instance where the driver can throw his hands in the air and legitimately say "There was nothing I could have done!".

Your "math", trolling and even more dubious "logic" wont save you from not actually making a valid point. Bottom line, is someone died....the driver should feel bad.

Wow, dude, 54 posts and you're already making yourself out to be a complete asshole. Nice job on that one. And there are plenty of cases where a driver can say there's nothing he could have done. If you're following the rules of the road, etc. and someone jumps out in front of you and you don't have time to stop... what the fuck are you supposed to do? Predict the future, and know that someone is going to run a stop sign/red light/etc.? If I'm going 30 and have a green light, I'm not going to slow down just because someone *might* jump out into the intersection. Bottom line is, all we know about the incident in question is what Murphy told us, and yet just because his brother was in a car and the kid was on a bike, somehow it's his fault? Jesus.

Edit: As for something relating to the topic at hand, there are definitely a lot of crazies on bikes out there. A lot of them where I live (same place as EvD and Whunpo), and some of them... I mean, if you don't take it easy and be safe while on a bike, you're taking your life in your hands. Riding at night without lights, riding the opposite way in the bike lane, etc. Compound that with bad drivers, and things get ugly.

[MagGnome]

THOSE, SIR, ARE FIGHTING WORDS. I DEMAND A RETRACTION :p

I live and work in Fort Collins.

Phew. I was afraid that I was going to have to start disliking you. I'm glad to find out that you don't in fact live in Boulder. :p

Double post.

You do realize that you can delete posts, right? It's at the bottom of the "edit" screen.


This. Fucking THIS.

Downtown is rife with idjits who jaywalk. I'm not talking about those who dash across when there's no cars coming. That's one thing. I'm talking about the fucksticks who saunter against a clear red, then glare at your ass like you're the one to blame. :mad:

Right of way is one thing. Right to be a dillhole is another.

I will admit that I jaywalk nearly every day on my way to work. I do this because there are some streets downtown that don't have much traffic on them (especially the bus lanes), and I feel silly standing there waiting for a green light.

I never do this when cars are coming though, because that is just stupid and arrogant. I see people jaywalk in front of vehicles all the time, even outside of the crosswalk. They saunter across the road like they are the only person in the entire world. That gets annoying.

[MagGnome]

Wow, dude, 54 posts and you're already making yourself out to be a complete asshole. Nice job on that one. And there are plenty of cases where a driver can say there's nothing he could have done. If you're following the rules of the road, etc. and someone jumps out in front of you and you don't have time to stop... what the fuck are you supposed to do? Predict the future, and know that someone is going to run a stop sign/red light/etc.? If I'm going 30 and have a green light, I'm not going to slow down just because someone *might* jump out into the intersection. Bottom line is, all we know about the incident in question is what Shiva told us, and yet just because his brother was in a car and the kid was on a bike, somehow it's his fault? Jesus.


This is very true. The driver isn't always at fault, although in many cases he/she is. You have to look at these sorts of accidents on a case by case basis.

For example, my freshman year of high school I was driving back from my lunch break. I was going down a residential street at about 25 MPH when a small dog ran out from nowhere right in front of my vehicle. I hit the brakes, but it was too late and I went right over the poor dog. I'll never forget the feeling of my car hitting him. I pulled over and looked in the mirror. The dog rolled around in the middle of the road, obviously hurt and confused. I started to get out of the car when he got up and took off. I didn't know what to do, so I drove away. Was it the right thing to do? No, I probably could have done more. I've always been the kind of guy who stops for anything - a person, a squirrel, etc. I still think about that accident from time to time, and I hope that the little guy is okay.

Anyway, the point is that the driver isn't always at fault, and everyone suffers in an accident to some degree.

[ClannerDelta]

Roads are dicks. There simply isn't any other explanation.

Pedestrians, Cyclists, and Drivers are, for the most part, fucking retarded. I've seen people 20+ mph over the speed limit in the middle of a huge bank of icefog on roads covered in black ice. I've seen pedestrians walk across busy roads in these same conditions. Cyclists during the summer are just as stupid.

There are some days where I'll see so much rampant retardation on the road from my home to town that I'll simply decide to walk through the woods. Shunning the convenience of roads for a slight assurance of safety.

[ShivaX]

Bottom line is, all we know about the incident in question is what Shiva told us, and yet just because his brother was in a car and the kid was on a bike, somehow it's his fault? Jesus

Wasn't my brother, it was Mr. Murphy, but the point stands.

A friend of mine once got hit by a bike while he was turning. Obviously it was my friends fault that the dude slammed into the side of his vehicle while ignoring the red light. Afterall we should all assume that people on the sidewalks are going to jump in front of our vehicles at all times. Noone should go over 3 mph lest we not be able to brake in time.

Or you can play vehicular Darwinism and obey the laws and try not to feel bad when the gene pool is culled. Still sucks when its a kid though because theres a fairly good chance they were never taught any better and never got a chance to learn any different.

I'm going to run into the street and yell at the cars I jump in front of. Obviously its as much their fault as mine for not expecting me and every pedistrian to be a fucking idiot and acting accordingly.

[OrangePulp]

Wasn't my brother, it was Mr. Murphy, but the point stands.

Whoops, sorry about that. Bit of a name mixup.

And just to be clear, I'm not trying to absolve all drivers from all accidents. The claim that it's always somewhat the driver's fault, though, is completely ridiculous.

[ShivaX]

Whoops, sorry about that. Bit of a name mixup.

And just to be clear, I'm not trying to absolve all drivers from all accidents. The claim that it's always somewhat the driver's fault, though, is completely ridiculous.

Likewise. Theres plenty of moron drivers out there, but when someone gets killed because of their own stupidity its hardly the other guys fault.

Thats like blaming the cop when someone does a suicide-by-cop thing. Dude comes out waving a gun and firing and the cops put him down, its not the cop's fault that the other guy died, but he has to deal with the consequences.

[BlackPete]

I always laugh at the "athletes" who think they know everything.

I ride, but I maintain no pretense about being able to survive being hit by a car. That's really what it all boils down to. Ride safe, and watch out for idiots who might kill you if you weren't looking.

The laws weren't written in an arbitrary way to confound and frustrate you, it's meant as a foundation everyone can agree to and thus behave safely with mutual understanding between all vehicles and bicycles. When people start ignoring the laws... then that's where chaos come in. This helps simplify the traffic situation but I still have to watch out for those who decide to take shortcuts, do rolling stops, etc.

I actually don't like it when there are bike paths because it creates the illusion of safety, then they're still just as dangerous (if not more so because of that illusion) as regular roads and streets. Far too many drivers simply don't know what to do about bike paths -- some even use it as an extra lane when they're planning on making a right turn up ahead.

"Athletes" who have an attitude are the true posers IMO, and probably deserve to get hit (lightly) to smarten them up. :p

EDIT: Hmm having read the thread, I see spcialk is the type of guy I was talking about. :D

[Bad Buddha]

I still think about that accident from time to time, and I hope that the little guy is okay.
A buddy of mine and I were out on a week long motorcycle ride through Washington, Oregon, Idaho and Montana.

We were cruising through some wheat farm land and I was in the lead. A cat ran out of the bushes, probably spooked by the sound of the bikes, and hit my front wheel. I went into a nasty speed-wobble; the bike was heavily loaded for camping so that didn't help the handling any! I almost ended up in the ditch but was able to keep things upright in the gravel on the shoulder. After the nausea from the adrenaline overload passed and my friend pulled up alongside me, I asked if I should go back and check on the cat.

He said, "NO! You are not going back there!".

Later that evening at our campsite I had to clean up my front wheel... I understood why he was so definite about the situation.

That happened 20 years ago. I still think about it.

[Young Al Capone]

Fixie rider? 'cause I DO wanna round all of them up and force them to use gears and brakes. We invented science and innovation for a reason people.

Brakes? Fine. Though I still am riding brakeless and really to remedy that.

Why gears though? Just more stuff to get fucked up when you are riding.

[ClannerDelta]

What's the point of a "fixie" bike? Serious question.

What's the point of a bike without breaks? ...possibly not serious. As I can only see this as being a negative.

[Young Al Capone]

What's the point of a "fixie" bike? Serious question.

What's the point of a bike without breaks? ...possibly not serious. As I can only see this as being a negative.

Well, traditionally they are only used at the velodrome. The idea is that with the chain directly connected to the back wheel there is no wasted effort. There is no need for brakes in that situation as back pedaling should be fine.

If you are really good you can get away without brakes, or at least some people think so. I am not that good, I just did it one day and have never put my other handlebars back on.

[Whunpo]

What's the point of a "fixie" bike? Serious question.It's hard to explain. Just saying that it's more fun doesn't quite explain it. To those of us who ride every day, no matter how much you enjoy it, you're doing something very similar every day. The inability to cruise adds something new to biking that makes it new again.
To put it in perspective: It's like playing Super Mario. Super Mario will always be fun, but after a while you get bored and want to play Super Mario 64.

What's the point of a bike without breaks? ...possibly not serious. As I can only see this as being a negative.
Well, I assume most of the reason is for the sense of danger that comes with it. However, some of it may also come from the fact that fixied gear culture originated on track bikes, where brakes are fairly pointless.
Also: brakes can ruin the paint on non-machined wheels. I have non-machined wheels, but I still run a brake. I've got a nice bike black smear around the edge, the paint will begin to chip in a few months, but it'll be worth having an emergency brake.

[MagGnome]

Later that evening at our campsite I had to clean up my front wheel... I understood why he was so definite about the situation.

That happened 20 years ago. I still think about it.

Wow, that's a sad story. :(