Diablo and Its Imitators

[Wraitheist]

The Sacred 2 thread drew some unavoidable Diablo 2 comparisons which reminded me of something that has perplexed me for a long time: How is it possible that, in 8 years, no game has come close to doing a diablo clone that is as fun and addicting as Diablo 2, let alone surpassing it? I mean, c'mon, it isn't a complicated formula. Yet, while there have been some good clones, I can't honestly qualify any of them as great games. Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance, Champions of Norrath, the LOTR games for the GBA, the Dungeon Siege series...all were fun, but none of them approach the quality of D2. Perplexing...

[Lint of Death]

For what it's worth, I enjoy the original Dungeon Siege considerably more than I did Diablo 2. I am a big fan of exploration in games, and, despite Dungeon Siege's mostly linear path of progression, it did an amazing job of hiding tons of secret areas around a wide array of exotic environments that, to this day, I find beautiful.

[ShivaX]

Honestly none of them could get the random world down that I know of.

What made Diablo2 so fun was every game was pretty varied. Going through most of the clones a second time was painful. Everything was exactly the same and it got old fast. Some tried some new things, but ultimately most don't warrant more than one playthrough.

[Shrinn]

Secret. Cow. Level.

[MalReynolds]

fuck we all need to get some diablo 2 on the go lol

[GigaFuzz]

I can't say how it compares to Diablo, but Titan Quest was an awesome amount of fun. The problem with it is that while the environments are beautiful, they're not randomised, so it inevitably gets stale after a while. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the closest yet, though.

[Disgustipated]

Titan Quest is better than Diablo 2.

[jpublic]

What made Diablo2 so fun was every game was pretty varied. Going through most of the clones a second time was painful.

This.

When playing Titan Quest for the seocnd time, I was struck by how damn TEDIOUS it was going through the *exact same* thing I had gone through before. Given, the different character class (Earth/Dream as opposed to Defense/War) made the game a little different, but not that much.

For all its faults, Hellgate came awfully close to getting that game variance that Diablo 2 had. Add into that, the vastly different experience playing one class vs another, and you had something that, if things had gone differently, could have been as good as D2.

[OrangePulp]

Titan Quest is better than Diablo 2.

I don't really think so. Titan quest is good, yes; best game of that sort to come out since D2. But it has some problems. The aforementioned static environments really start to make the game stale your 4th or 5th time through. Sure, it lets them do some cool stuff (like being able to see the next area you go to way below you), but I'd rather have random environments to keep things interesting.

Another thing is that the skill system prioritizes customization, but at the cost of replayability. It's cool to be able to mix and match the different ability sets and basically make your own class. However, while some ability sets have a lot of variety (like Dream, the one they added in the expansion), others are fairly one dimensional; Defense / Hunting isn't much different than Defense / Warfare, and Spirit / Storm isn't that different than Spirit / Earth (other than that Storm is a much better caster class cause of the wisp buff).

Titan Quest (and it's expansion) is a great game, to be sure. I really enjoyed it. But it just can't achieve the same amount of replayability that D2 does.

[J Arcane]

The only Diablo clone I've ever played that manages to stand up to the original is Titan Quest. The only problem with it is, as mentioned, the levels are the same every time, so you completely lose all replayability gained for Diablo's randomized maps.

[Mr. Murphy]

So I should probably get around to playing the copy of Diablo 2 I've had installed on my computer for the last 8 years, huh?

[Panthera]

I'll agree that Titan Quest is about as close as we've gotten. I've heard people say good things about the Divine Divinity games, though.

[Goronmon]

Diablo does a few key things well.


Varied classes with interesting skills. I mean, Corpse Explosion...'nuff said.


Insane amounts of randomized loot. People underestimate the difference a solid loot generation system makes in a hack and slash game like that.


Randomized environments mean you still have to "play" the game during replays, not just go through the motions.

[Wraitheist]

The loot system is definitely one thing that Diablo 2 does brilliantly. It does many things very well, but seeing an item drop with that gold lettering never ceases to be exciting. The fact that soo many people (including myself from time to time) still play the game is a testament to its brilliance. I would guess Diablo 2 has probably sucked up more of my life than any other single game...and considering how much time I put into EQ 1, that is saying something.

[Hemalin]

R.I.P. Mythos

You ripped off Diablo so blatantly, yet you did it so well.

[Karmakin]

It's one word. It's not even a BIG word. Only 4 letters.

As other people have mentioned...

Loot.

No other game of that sub-genre has matched D2's loot system. For that matter, no other MMO has matched World of Warcraft's loot system. This is the secret of their success. There are games that have come close, I found the Dark Alliance games were actually really good in that regard even with the limits of running with a D&D license. Dungeon Siege wasn't too bad either. Titan Quest was a fun game to play but in the demo I didn't like the loot. At all.

In terms of MMOs, all those free MMOs just SUCK in terms of loot. They're horrible. As are quite a few of the pay ones as well. Guild Wars did well by focusing more on skins than power. Anarchy Online was very good early on, but like the rest of the game turned into a disaster later on. Age of Conan probably died mostly at the hands of its loot system.

It's all about the loot to keep people hooked and interested.

One note. The best D2 clone IMO was Fate. Which is really good starting out, but I find that the balance is too off. Either you come out with an ultra-powerful character, or your character is too weak to survive.

[J Arcane]

It's a shame that Burning Crusade completely fucked WoW's loot system in the ass.

Also, I'd not that Dungeon Runners actually has a pretty good loot system, mainly because the stole it wholesale from Diablo/WoW, and just slapped funny names on things.

It's not as good, but it was good enough.

[jpublic]

You know, this thread is making me sort of long for a new Diablo-esque game. I keep on looking at Sacred 2, but I was so turned off by the first game I don't know if it's worth picking up.

Since D3 is so ludicrously long off, what do we have to look forward to in the near(er) future?

*sigh* I'll have to console myself with the greatest of the loot games - Roguelikes.

[LongStepMantis]

I'll agree that Titan Quest is about as close as we've gotten. I've heard people say good things about the Divine Divinity games, though.

I can't praise Divine Divinity enough.

I didn't expect much the first time I played it. It delivered a game that was a mix between Diablo's action combat, random loot and skill progression and Baldur's Gate's huge world, interesting and well written dialogue, and tons of quests and side areas.

It's single player only and the map is always the same, but it's not quite the kind of game you play more than once in the sense that it takes a long time to fully explore everything. Also it isn't the kind of game you can keep restarting with the same character.

Basically, it's Baldur's Gate played with the style and mechanics of Diablo.

It's actually pretty challenging too. It's easy to stumble into monsters that are much better than you are, as you are mostly free to explore right off the bat (once you escape the first town that's under siege). It wasn't uncommon to have those experiences where you see a monster you haven't seen before, investigate, and it drops you in two hits. Save is your friend.
But the thrill of finding ways to kill monsters much higher level than you and gain a lot of levels quickly is always nice too. :D

Two words: Scorpion Trap. In most games traps that release animals are near-useless. Not so in this case. Those things are scuttling death machines.

[PathMaster]

It's a shame that Burning Crusade completely fucked WoW's loot system in the ass.

I don't see that at all. The only thing that changed really was that people who WERE very WELL equipped were able to get greens that beat their purples. But it also meant that regular players got terrific items around 58-60, which provided substantial boosts. And those players who got screwed over by the greens being better? Most of them were also racing to get to 70 and get the purples again. It is a typical cycle. Nothing was screwed over in my opinion. If anything it made it tremendously easier for the casual players to level.

I will say that leveling in BC was so easy. It you know how to grind and prioritize quests and mobs together, then gaining a level in Outlands was a 3-6 hour affair.

[jpublic]

I'd love to pick up Divine Divinity or Beyond Divinity, but I can't find it anywhere. GOG needs to get that in their library.

[J Arcane]

There's such a thing as giving too much good loot. When the game trows piles of uncommon gear with stats that make most previous rare gear look like shit, and starts escalating the stat numbers to Final Fantasy game levels, it just becomes a farce. BC made loot meaningless, because there was nothing special about finding a good drop anymore.

It was a cheap ploy, that served no purpose other than to curry favor with the simple-minded by throwing big numbers at them, and going that much farther to ensure the previous game was completely and utterly obsolete on an unparalleled scale in MMO design.

It was a dick move, and it's one of the reasons I lost respect for Blizzard.

[LongStepMantis]

I'd love to pick up Divine Divinity or Beyond Divinity, but I can't find it anywhere. GOG needs to get that in their library.

Important point of note. Beyond Divinity is the sequel, and changed a lot about the game. I much prefer the first one.

Beyond Divinity watered down the Baldur's Gate aspects a lot, and ended up being pretty linear. It's not terrible, but the open world exploration part of Divine was one of the reasons I loved it, removing that took a lot away from it imo.

[jpublic]

My point stands. Someone at GOG needs to get that shit into their library.

[OrangePulp]

There's such a thing as giving too much good loot. When the game trows piles of uncommon gear with stats that make most previous rare gear look like shit, and starts escalating the stat numbers to Final Fantasy game levels, it just becomes a farce. BC made loot meaningless, because there was nothing special about finding a good drop anymore.

It was a cheap ploy, that served no purpose other than to curry favor with the simple-minded by throwing big numbers at them, and going that much farther to ensure the previous game was completely and utterly obsolete on an unparalleled scale in MMO design.

It was a dick move, and it's one of the reasons I lost respect for Blizzard.

BC made pre-BC loot meaningless, sure, but it had it's own instances to grind for loot. I guess someone could be bitter about having all their gear get replaced by greens, and it probably happened sooner than most people thought, but what did you think was going to happen when you increase the cap 10 levels?

[J Arcane]

BC made pre-BC loot meaningless, sure, but it had it's own instances to grind for loot. I guess someone could be bitter about having all their gear get replaced by greens, and it probably happened sooner than most people thought, but what did you think was going to happen when you increase the cap 10 levels?
I think you're not getting the reason for my complaint.

I'm not "bitter about getting my gear replaced by greens", I'm angry because the change to the loot curve and drop rates (combined with other factors) made a game I loved incredibly fucking dull.

[OrangePulp]

I think you're not getting the reason for my complaint.

I'm not "bitter about getting my gear replaced by greens", I'm angry because the change to the loot curve and drop rates (combined with other factors) made a game I loved incredibly fucking dull.

So... did you have to grind less, or something, to get gear? I know a bunch of people that play WoW, and I remember them grinding for loot (whether it's heroics or guild raiding or pvp, whatever) the same as pre-BC. I never got the impression that it was easy to get the good gear.

[Narradisall]

Titan Quest was good, but the one thing that really annoyed me about that game (besides the large amount of bugs) was that every level was like the Diablo 2 Jungle (the most unfun part in my mind). Where it is literally miles and miles and miles of random map with nothing of interest.

Getting between a-b was a drag. Whereas somehow in D2 they managed to pull of getting between the village and the boss to be a ton of fun with sidequests that felt they mattered or at least mini qeust related bosses between the trip.

D2 just had that something that made it so much more addicting to me.

[Karmakin]

They didn't do as much of a numbers inflation for WotLK, and IMO the game is worse off for it.

For those who don't know, between Vanilla WoW and TBC, they basically doubled the amount of health that items give, causing health totals to spike up. That's what I think J Arcane is complaining about. It actually worked pretty well in terms of gameplay, it put even top-end raiders back into the loot game pretty quickly. They didn't scale things up for WotLK, and that's caused huge problems with burst damage, and it wasn't quite as fun (the mechanics and quests are great however) because if you had even starting epic gear, you didn't have to replace it to 78 or so.

[Hotcod]

I think you're not getting the reason for my complaint.

I'm not "bitter about getting my gear replaced by greens", I'm angry because the change to the loot curve and drop rates (combined with other factors) made a game I loved incredibly fucking dull.

wait? what?

Once the loot curve is reset for BC... once you wearing mostly greens again, it's not very different from pre BC in progression. There's more loot and upgrading to be done per level but for me that just makes the game better. The fun aspect of the game to me is progressing my guy, levels and loot do that in a nice constant way and post BC keeps that progression going. I can see how maybe that takes away the "lack of achievement" from getting a new bit of loot after 5 levels that is slightly better than your old one but for people like that there's the end game.

I lost interest in BC when i was forced to plan out my pre kara gear. It became almost like pre BC again, spending forever grinding to get one thing to tick of a list to let me progress. Don't get me wrong its better than preBC pre raid stuff, there's more choice in what to get and more verity in where to get them.... but it just a change to the kind of progression that interests me. I enjoyed my trail of WotLK beacuse it let me go on to progress my gear in the way that i enjoy.

The point i'm trying to make is that while you have every right not to like the new systems they put in place i don't like the fact that you are in essence calling me an idiot for enjoying it just beacuse you don't.

You have to remember that when they built wow they had no clue how big it was going to be or how thing where going to turn out. There loot system was not built with the extra content they patched in let alone expiations in mind. Yes the changes have mad the loot system a lot less "hard core" than other mmos and the loot had a high turn over in the first place but honesty the kind of loot system you must like tends to bore me to tears. I want to be able to play and progress and get cool stuff for my guy with out having to go get something or other.

BC sets up things in a way that people who don't want to raid can just gear up from drops and quest rewards with out having to go out there way. While keeping the need to gear in the right way and having much more stringently paced gear upgrades in the raids them selfs. Honestly it's an really well done way of designing the system to cope with and satisfy two very different groups of gamers who want drastically different things from the loot systems.

It just seems to be that you go put off by the "casual" loot system based around levelling beacuse you prefer only to get a bit of lot for a lot of work that is only bearly an upgrade on what you have beacuse that is some how more enjoyable for you.

[Shrinn]

Diablo II also had a TON of charm on top of it's addicting loot system.

That little clink of grabbing gold, Deckard Cain's "Stay awhile and listen!" as I ignore him and demand he identifies my shit. The cow level. "Not even death can save you from me."

I really like dungeon siege 2, but I don't have any neat little memories of it like that. Things that make me think back and go "Hah, that was neat."

A game that can charm you (hello The Maw) as well as keep you having fun is much more likely to bring you back.

[Chris_D]

Diablo gave me RSI, too much mouse clicking. I would enjoy a good Diablo game for console that used a control method similar to Too Human (and is hopefully better obviously). I like the idea of pointing in the direction you want to shoot with the analog stick, it seemed to work quite well in the TH demo.

[Telefrog]

Diablo gave me RSI, too much mouse clicking. I would enjoy a good Diablo game for console that used a control method similar to Too Human (and is hopefully better obviously). I like the idea of pointing in the direction you want to shoot with the analog stick, it seemed to work quite well in the TH demo.

Unfortunately, that was the demo. The full game didn't hold up nearly as well.

[Chris_D]

Unfortunately, that was the demo. The full game didn't hold up nearly as well.

How about just the control method? I mean, pointing in a certain direction with a stick seems like it would do a similar job to selecting an enemy or location and hammering the mouse button. Or at least, easier on my tendons.

[roboninja]

So... did you have to grind less, or something, to get gear? I know a bunch of people that play WoW, and I remember them grinding for loot (whether it's heroics or guild raiding or pvp, whatever) the same as pre-BC. I never got the impression that it was easy to get the good gear.

I have head the complaint before, but have never understood it. I think each expansion has made WoW much better than it was previously. Maybe I am just simple-minded and like big numbers? *shrug*

[tacitus]

I enjoyed dungeon siege 2 immensely ... until I got 2/3 of the way through and had severe save game corruption problems. Alas, these were unrecoverable and for DS2 was not fun enough to replay. One hint for developers do not mimic Diablo2's single save game unless you are sure that you wouldn't suffer from corruption issues.

I am still playing Diablo2 but I do have to be careful about RSI and don't overdo the click fest.

[Telefrog]

How about just the control method? I mean, pointing in a certain direction with a stick seems like it would do a similar job to selecting an enemy or location and hammering the mouse button. Or at least, easier on my tendons.

That particular mechanic was fine. The way it was used in the full game was annoying since the bigger enemies and mini-boss fights (which happen every few yards) have attack patterns that purposefully break the rhythm of stick-slide-stick-slide-etc. Trying to take a Hammer Troll down at the same time as a Mortar Troll with multiple missile shooting Dark Elves is incredibly frustrating when you don't have the fine control of aiming and attacking with a button/keypress.

I have to agree with most of the people here and say that Titan Quest is the best Diablo-clone we've seen thus far. The only issues keeping it from true greatness were it's lack of secured server play, the endless slog/grind of some portions, and really subpar loot.

[Lint of Death]

I don't own Dungeon Siege 2, but I recall it did some really fun things like making thrown weapon specialization a viable skilltree rather than a joke like it is in most games. A throwing axe that hits with such chopping power that the target explodes? Awesome.

[mesh]

As much as some of you feel no game has equalled or bested diablo2, I myself wonder the exact opposite, I've never seen diablo2 to even remotely be fun or anything but grinding that's even worse than an MMO since there's noone around to play with unless you go on battle.net to be pked on login.

[GigaFuzz]

As much as some of you feel no game has equalled or bested diablo2, I myself wonder the exact opposite, I've never seen diablo2 to even remotely be fun or anything but grinding that's even worse than an MMO since there's noone around to play with unless you go on battle.net to be pked on login.

Friends.

That is all.

[PathMaster]

Honestly the only difference as a casual player with pre-BC and BC was that before I almost HAD to roll with all blues or I would get trashed. In BC I could run with all greens and do quite well grinding, questing, and yes, even instancing. To me, that is a HUGE bonus. I did not NEED that one blue that would get me by with its bonus. A couple of greens in BC would make up for the difference.

[Talanvor]

I can't praise Divine Divinity enough.

This. I loved playing Divine Divinity. Actually I got pissed off about something in Diablo 2 that turned me towards this game, and it was amazing.

What really stood out for me is, even though I'm fairly sure it was a 2D game, just how pretty they made everything look.

[Wraitheist]

As much as some of you feel no game has equalled or bested diablo2, I myself wonder the exact opposite, I've never seen diablo2 to even remotely be fun or anything but grinding that's even worse than an MMO since there's noone around to play with unless you go on battle.net to be pked on login.

Diablo 2 appeals to me far more than any similar game, including WoW, because I can blast hordes of monsters by myself and have a decent chance of great loot dropping at any time. I played on B.net, but specifically so that I could trade. D3 borrows Hellgate London's awesome idea of having loot drop separately for each player, so I see no reason not to play with others this time around.

[jpublic]

What about some of these other clones I've seen? I picked up Loki out of curiosity, and so far it hasn't been bad.

But I'm a fanboy for all things related to Norse Mythology.

[Ravenlock]

R.I.P. Mythos

You ripped off Diablo so blatantly, yet you did it so well.

This. Mythos was FAR better than Hellgate: London, and I might have actually been convinced to pay for Mythos. It's a damn shame that HG:L had to bring it down, they were really onto something with it.

The only similar thing out there is Dungeon Runners, which isn't horrible but is a far cry from the fun and polish Mythos had, even just in beta.

[SilentScreams]

I'm going to add my voice to the Divine Divinity love. I was actually turned onto it by somebody on a forum I used to post on (TechIMO) when I asked for a Diablo substitute and it didn't disappoint. I really enjoyed that game and I'd get it out and install it again if I didn't already have way too much to play.

I never got to play Mythos, but I would have definitely picked it up on day one.
Hellgate: London wasn't as bad as some would have you believe, but neither was it as great as it could and perhaps should have been. It was a great idea but Flagship didn't do it justice.
On a related side note: The Hellgate books are actually pretty good. I was pleasantly surprised by them.

Titan Quest, as others have said, is probably the closest thing to Diablo 2 you're likely to get. I didn't like the static maps though, and I've only played through it once compared to the...I'm going to go with at least 100 times I've played through Diablo 2.

In the end though, I think it's going to take Diablo 3 to beat Diablo 2.

[LongStepMantis]

I'm going to add my voice to the Divine Divinity love. I was actually turned onto it by somebody on a forum I used to post on (TechIMO) when I asked for a Diablo substitute and it didn't disappoint. I really enjoyed that game and I'd get it out and install it again if I didn't already have way too much to play.

It's a shame that game didn't get more attention. I've decided to break it out again once I track down the CD's in my mess. :D

In the end though, I think it's going to take Diablo 3 to beat Diablo 2.

I think you're right.

[Bad Buddha]

I had lots of fun with Titan Quest and Dungeon Siege. The randomness isn't a big draw for me because I really don't play too many game more than once.

After playing through the Dungeon Siege single-player game, I started up a multi-player sever and played it by myself: That's a BIG game world! Woods, caverns, crypts, dungeons, deserts, mountains... it just kept an going! Fun gear, too!

[Wraitheist]

In the end though, I think it's going to take Diablo 3 to beat Diablo 2.


Too true. I'm trying to not follow Diablo 3 too closely because it just makes me want the game that much more and I know it won't be out for a long while yet.

[jpublic]

Just thought I'd give an update on my travails with Loki.

First - it's competent. There's nothing really amazing about this game. The graphics are okay, the interface is workmanlike, the controls are about what you'd expect for the genre.

Second - the pacing of the game is completely different from that of other Diablo clones I've played. In those, getting swarmed is more or less the norm. In Loki, at least during my first couple hours of gameplay, getting swarmed is deadly. That might turn a lot of people off, but it's kind of neat.

I think it deserved its 6/10 Metacritic rating, if you view that the same way Eurogamer does - it's competent, it's fun, it's not amazing.

[Ravenlock]

I'm probably remiss for not mentioning Depths of Peril (http://www.soldak.com/Depths-of-Peril/Overview.html) in this thread yet.

It's not exactly a Diablo clone - there's no multiplayer, for one, and the scope is undeniably much smaller - but it has a lot of the same elements, and some new ones, and makes for a pretty compelling game. You run a faction pitted against several other factions in a town, getting minions, completing quests, leveling up, etc, to gain influence and power over the other factions and eventually conquer them until you're the last one standing.

The graphics, though polygonal, could be called sub-Diablo-1 level primitive, and the combat isn't as satisfying as that of the Diablo series. And yet, the other elements of the game - building up your faction, racing to get things done before your opponents do, making Civ-like bargains with your enemies as you plot to destroy them - mitigate those complaints to a large degree. And unlike so many other Diablo-type games, this one IS heavily randomized, so the replay value is there if you can stomach the low production values.

Worth downloading the demo and giving a try, certainly. It's no heir to the throne, but it's not a bad game to scratch the itch, while we wait for one.

[LongStepMantis]

Apparently there's a new Divinity game coming out.
First I've heard of it, anyways.

CrZAgUUCmuQ

While it seems little like the originals (mostly due to the Fable-like appearance), it could still be interesting if they put the same level of attention into it. We shall see. I can't deny the awesome factor of dragon transformation.

[SilentScreams]

That looks pretty good. First I've heard of it too.
It's being made by Larian, so that's a good sign.
I'll definitely pick it up and give it a shot.

[Narradisall]

I loved the first Divine Divinity, but for some reason I just couldn't pick up the second.

I think I got out the first dungeon and then just never played it again.

[biosc1]

Divine Divinity kicked my behind the first time I played it. I think I chose my character incorrectly or something. I should try and pick up a copy these days...

The one thing I really liked about it though, was how fleshed out the world seemed. Seemed much more "alive" than the Diablo world.

[LongStepMantis]

Divine Divinity kicked my behind the first time I played it. I think I chose my character incorrectly or something. I should try and pick up a copy these days...

The one thing I really liked about it though, was how fleshed out the world seemed. Seemed much more "alive" than the Diablo world.

The environment, the art style, the music, the little ambient touches like birds and frogs running around. It was far more dynamic of an environment than Diablo, no question.

The difficulty is a big hurdle, but that's part of what I love about it. Later in the game it reminded me more of Diablo because you were good enough to plow through hordes of enemies. Towards the beginning, a single orc would have you running for the hills. Like I said before, they didn't hand you wins, a lot of the monsters would completely stomp you out if you didn't use your head and/or run until you were strong enough. Do you remember the Orcish War Drummers that were right outside the first town ? They could heal themselves to full life at a second's notice and would kill you instantly until you were in the 20's level range. Or the skeletal demon summoners in the first real dungeon. They could kill you in a few hits and could summon other monsters. The difficulty in that game did not fuck around.

I loved the first Divine Divinity, but for some reason I just couldn't pick up the second.

I think I got out the first dungeon and then just never played it again.

It may just be my opinion, but I found Beyond to be a shadow of the original's greatness. I highly recommend anyone interested in trying them, play Divine Divinity.

[SilentScreams]

I couldn't get into Beyond either.
Divine is the better of the two, no question.

[jpublic]

Grr. I wish I could get my hands on Divine Divinity, but it's nowhere. :(

[tombofsoldier]

Titan Quest is better than Diablo 2.

No it's not.

[DarkDay]

Titan Quest was great but lacked that magic that Diablo2 had for me. No other game has taken up more of my time. I have level 99ed every character multiple times, had every variation, 3 accounts 1 just for runes all legit, and I still couldn't stop. I miss it much but so glad I got away from it again for the last 7 months. Its crack.

Titan Quest is a close second, but It just lacked the magic that made me come back every day for hours upon hours of leveling, building, dueling, collecting, rushing.

[SilentScreams]

Grr. I wish I could get my hands on Divine Divinity, but it's nowhere. :(

Tell me about it. When I first went looking for it years ago I couldn't find it anywhere and ended up downloading it.
I found it in a shop a long time after I'd finished the game and had almost forgotten about it. I bought it right away. I think my boxed copy is still actually sealed and everything. I only really bought it since I'd downloaded it before.

And as I said, that was years ago. I imagine it's even harder to find now.

[Wraitheist]

Titan Quest was great but lacked that magic that Diablo2 had for me. No other game has taken up more of my time. I have level 99ed every character multiple times, had every variation, 3 accounts 1 just for runes all legit, and I still couldn't stop. I miss it much but so glad I got away from it again for the last 7 months. Its crack.

Titan Quest is a close second, but It just lacked the magic that made me come back every day for hours upon hours of leveling, building, dueling, collecting, rushing.

Wow man...I'll never say that I was addicted again. I've played it off and on since release but I've never gotten a character past 88 or so before getting tired of them. I did buy a second copy so that I could power level myself, though...something I thought I would never do for any game. However, anyone who as played 100s of low level diablo characters will understand. :D

[DarkDay]

Wow man...I'll never say that I was addicted again. I've played it off and on since release but I've never gotten a character past 88 or so before getting tired of them. I did buy a second copy so that I could power level myself, though...something I thought I would never do for any game. However, anyone who as played 100s of low level diablo characters will understand. :D

I know, I had 3 comps going at once at one point last year again, even my mules were 99, every type of paladin, sorc, barb, necro, druid, you name it I built it, I was messed up. Never did bot though, didn't agree with it.

I got to the point where I could build any wep off memory, so sad, charms, uniques in the cube, different gloves, shit talking about it makes me shake for some more.

I was leveling chars to 90 in a day easy, there is always a way. Also multple organ sets to help out. Used my hammerdin the most.
With my build I was o just over 20 000 a hit, the ubers even became easy with most my chars. Then one day I woke up, went into a game found a newb and gave everything to him and uninstalled everything.

Out side was scary.

The saddest part is that I did all of that on that go in only about 4 months...

[SilentScreams]

I thought I was bad with my three 99s (MeteOrb Sorc, WW Barb, Zeal Pally).
DarkDay is hardcore! :)

[Ancalagon]

I cant believe you levelled characters to 90 in one day, DarkDay. Thats scary stuff.

[headhunter228]

I've just bought Diablo II, and I'm still trying to find a character that suits me. So far, I've tried the Paladin, Druid, Sorceress, and Assassin, but nothing that really sticks with me so far. I'm thinking of trying a Barbarian next. Any suggestions?

[Goronmon]

I've just bought Diablo II, and I'm still trying to find a character that suits me. So far, I've tried the Paladin, Druid, Sorceress, and Assassin, but nothing that really sticks with me so far. I'm thinking of trying a Barbarian next. Any suggestions?I found Necro to be one of the more enjoyable classes.

[Wraitheist]

I've just bought Diablo II, and I'm still trying to find a character that suits me. So far, I've tried the Paladin, Druid, Sorceress, and Assassin, but nothing that really sticks with me so far. I'm thinking of trying a Barbarian next. Any suggestions?

The Barbarian is very item-oriented, so it is tough to build one that can survive in Hell difficulty until have good items. Necros and Sorcs are recommended beginning characters. Do yourself a favor and check out some builds on diii.net before investing too much time in a character. Nothing sucks more than spending a dozen hours on a toon before realizing that you mis-spent skill points.

Of course, if you are only interested in playing through the game and have no interest in the harder difficulties, there is no need to do that.

[Wraitheist]

[QUOTE=DarkDay;180398]

I was leveling chars to 90 in a day easy, there is always a way. QUOTE]

How did you accomplish this? With a 2nd account, I could make my own Baal runs and run an alt through the game, but there's no easy way to get them to level 25 without the help of other players that I know of.

[DarkDay]

I thought I was bad with my three 99s (MeteOrb Sorc, WW Barb, Zeal Pally).
DarkDay is hardcore! :)

Ha, I was hardcore a couple years ago, my last play through made me a sad human being. Tattoos were not getting done, nothing.

soooo, anyone up for some Diablo...heh....*starts shaking*

[DarkDay]

I cant believe you levelled characters to 90 in one day, DarkDay. Thats scary stuff.

I know, if you had the people, the chars and extra epuip it would take about 10 hours or so longest. Getting to 20 was a pain but didnt take to long, hit 30, cows to 50, rush rush rush, cows, rush rush, organ set for a couple last goes, then some ubers.

[DarkDay]

[QUOTE=DarkDay;180398]

I was leveling chars to 90 in a day easy, there is always a way. QUOTE]

How did you accomplish this? With a 2nd account, I could make my own Baal runs and run an alt through the game, but there's no easy way to get them to level 25 without the help of other players that I know of.

When you have everything and then some and played too much I would just take turns with other high levels that I go to know, rushing each other and leveling each other up.

[soqua]

I've just bought Diablo II, and I'm still trying to find a character that suits me. So far, I've tried the Paladin, Druid, Sorceress, and Assassin, but nothing that really sticks with me so far. I'm thinking of trying a Barbarian next. Any suggestions?

What style of play do you enjoy?

A necromancer is probably the best class for someone starting out. It is good if you enjoy standing back and letting your army of skeletons destroy monsters. You don't need a lot of equipment to be effective, and you will only have problems with at most 5 monsters in the game.

[DarkDay]

Necro is fun, but anoying in parties, Druid is an easy one but gets boring later on. I say build a Zeal pal, not the most powerful but good times later on easier to find epuipment for.

A frost sorc is also great run and handy down the line, I would say go about 80 percent frost points, buy make sure to power up one choice of fire for imunes later on also unless you plan to party up, and tele is a good one to put points into.

Brarb is also fun, easy to get your all your IK armor a few smaller stat charms, a low Barb torch is a give away and you'll be able to do some fun rushes.

[Troggles]

I just started playing d2 again a week ago. I have a pure blizzard sorc right now at 80 just to do some MF runs so I can start building some characters are a bit more versatile. I'm playing on USeast with the account name Troggles. If anyone needs anything just hit me up.

[MagGnome]

Important point of note. Beyond Divinity is the sequel, and changed a lot about the game. I much prefer the first one.

Beyond Divinity watered down the Baldur's Gate aspects a lot, and ended up being pretty linear. It's not terrible, but the open world exploration part of Divine was one of the reasons I loved it, removing that took a lot away from it imo.

Actually Beyond Divinity was more of a spin-off, hence the huge departure from the first game. The demo for Beyond Divinity was so terrible that I didn't even bother picking it up, despite having loved the first one. There was going to be a Divine Divinity 2, but it disappeared.

I really need to go back and play through Divine Divinity again sometime. I hit a bug in the final dungeon that prevented me from beating the game, and at the time I didn't want to restart. It's been long enough now that I've forgotten nearly everything, so running through it again could be a lot of fun. It's too bad the game isn't on GOG or Steam.

Edit - A quick Google search reveals that Divine Divinity 2 has become Divinity 2: Ego Draconis and is still very much in development. It appears to have had a complete reboot at some point, as it is now fully 3d and really gorgeous. It's even slated for a 2009 release! I'm definitely looking forward to it. :)

Edit 2 - Whoops! I didn't see the second page before posting this. I guess I'm late to the party. :o

[SilentScreams]

Did anyone ever play Fate? It came out in 2005.
It was supposed to be pretty good, but I never got around to checking it out.

[LongStepMantis]

Did anyone ever play Fate? It came out in 2005.
It was supposed to be pretty good, but I never got around to checking it out.

Fate isn't bad, it's basically an upgraded version of Diablo 1. You can fish (for both fish and sometimes you fish up items) and you have a pet cat or dog. You can feed the fish to it to make it transform into various monsters. The quality of the fish determines how long it lasts. The really good ones are permanent.

You also get quests that always change, and the dungeon has over a million floors.

The bad, is that the game, in my case, was highly unstable. It would crash randomly, and a few times it would freeze when a level was loading. The really shitty part is that it would freeze at that spot every time, so I often had to quit completely. Also, there is no multiplayer whatsoever.

If it works, the game is a nicely upgraded version of Diablo 1. Far better imo...it just isn't better than Diablo 2.

Edit- Almost forgot one of the best features. Your pet has an inventory almost as large as yours making an excellent pack mule, but that's not the best part. You can pile equipment you want to sell on it, and send it back to town without you. When it returns, it gives you all the cash for the items it sold. Very nice feature that more games like this should have. It may be a budget title, but Fate is actually pretty damn good.

[jpublic]

Anyone try that Silverfall:Awakening games?

Or Spaceforce: Rogue Universe? (Not really a diablolike, but it looks interesting.)

[OrangePulp]

I played a bit of Fate. It had some interesting ideas, but in the end I found the random dungeon generation to really be sub-par. There were a lot of cases where I'd end up running down long hallways with few monsters and items in there, and it really got boring just running around. And in a game like this, decent dungeon generation is key.

[LongStepMantis]

I played a bit of Fate. It had some interesting ideas, but in the end I found the random dungeon generation to really be sub-par. There were a lot of cases where I'd end up running down long hallways with few monsters and items in there, and it really got boring just running around. And in a game like this, decent dungeon generation is key.

That was what crippled it so much. They had excellent ideas, but didn't do so well in the implementation. I did find the pet/fishing idea to be excellent, as well as making it a pack mule who could independently sell things for you. Hand-me-down items were another good one. If you chose to retire a character after finishing the game (You could choose to either continue indefinitely or retire after beating the final boss) you could pick a piece of their equipment to hand down to your next character. It would even increase it's magical properties to reflect that it was older.

Like I said, great ideas, but would be great if a better game had them. Still, Fate was a budget title, and for that it was pretty swanky.

[MagGnome]

I forgot all about Fate! I was trying to remember which game had a dog that you could send back to town to sell items, and that must be it!

[SilentScreams]

I checked out Fate for myself. There's a free ad-supported version available. I'm not sure if it's free indefinitely or if there are any restrictions, but it's a good way to try out the game. It seems pretty fun so far.
I just wish that once I'd permenantly transformed my dog into something else, it wouldn't turn back into a dog if I use another temporary fish on it.

[Rune_74]

Does anyone else find diablo 2 hard to look at on modern computers ...I tried going back to play it but just couldn't it was so grainy...

[MagGnome]

Does anyone else find diablo 2 hard to look at on modern computers ...I tried going back to play it but just couldn't it was so grainy...

I played it for a couple months last year, and I ended up running it in windowed mode. It's much more playable that way IMHO.

[Rune_74]

Yeah I'm actually trying that now

[Goronmon]

Yeah, I always play in Windowed mode. Makes it a lot easier to look at.

[BigJonno]

I don't get the Diablo love. The loot and character customisation were cool, but I found it completely lacking in just about every other area. I bought the battlechest years ago, but just found it boring.

I think I just hate the click-click-click "gameplay."

Oh yeah, I may be able to lay my hands on a copy of Divine Divinity if someone is deperate enough to pay for shipping from Blighty. I bought it for my brother once and I think he may still ahve it.

[MagGnome]

Divine Divinity is fantastic, so hopefully someone takes you up on your offer.

That game needs to be on GOG, before the sequel hits.

[Shandor]

That game needs to be on GOG, before the sequel hits.

That would be awesome. I've wanted to play the Divinity games for a long time. I always heard they were good, but never got around to getting them.

[violent]

Anyone setting up some play throughs? I'd be interested.

[MagGnome]

That would be awesome. I've wanted to play the Divinity games for a long time. I always heard they were good, but never got around to getting them.

I have a copy of Divine Divinity because I bought it back when it was still on shelves. They really need to get it out there for everyone who will be interested now that the sequel is finally seeing the light of day. Hopefully Divinity 2 lives up to its predecessor more than Beyond Divinity did.


Anyone setting up some play throughs? I'd be interested.

I actually don't like playing Diablo-style games multiplayer. I don't know why. Maybe it's the people I've tried playing them with, but I could never get into it.

[violent]

I actually don't like playing Diablo-style games multiplayer. I don't know why. Maybe it's the people I've tried playing them with, but I could never get into it.

Is it Diablo-esque games in general or merely the multiplayer aspect that turns you off? If it is the multi aspect, I can pretty much assure you it will be relevant to who you play with.

[MagGnome]

Is it Diablo-esque games in general or merely the multiplayer aspect that turns you off? If it is the multi aspect, I can pretty much assure you it will be relevant to who you play with.

I enjoy the games themselves, but there is something about the multiplayer that turns me off.

I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the people I played with the few times I've tried it, but it also doesn't help that I'm greedy and want to pick up everything. :o

[violent]

I enjoy the games themselves, but there is something about the multiplayer that turns me off.

I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the people I played with the few times I've tried it, but it also doesn't help that I'm greedy and want to pick up everything. :o

Hah! Funny thing was that I was about to mention that I hate playing with loot whores. I'm thinking of one in particular. Can't take that guy anywhere.

[Disgustipated]

Apparently there's a new Divinity game coming out.
First I've heard of it, anyways.

CrZAgUUCmuQ

While it seems little like the originals (mostly due to the Fable-like appearance), it could still be interesting if they put the same level of attention into it. We shall see. I can't deny the awesome factor of dragon transformation.

That looks freakin' amazing. I can't wait to try that out.

[MagGnome]

Hah! Funny thing was that I was about to mention that I hate playing with loot whores. I'm thinking of one in particular. Can't take that guy anywhere.

Yeah, I can be something of a loot whore. When I play RPGs by myself I try to carry as much crap as possible. I hate leaving stuff behind, even the junk. Eventually I have to tell myself that the crappy dagger valued at 10 gold isn't worth it. :p


That looks freakin' amazing. I can't wait to try that out.

This is looking to be a good year for PC RPGs. I just played the demo for Drakensang today and found it to be very fun.

[Mason]

The Zy-El mod is an amazing reinterpretation of Diablo II that I enjoy more than the original.

I think it is worth noting that no Diablo clones feel like D2 because D2 did many things very poorly, from an abstract perspective on its game design. It always had crazy class and skill problems, and several trees are just barely viable beyond Normal. The disparity of its randomized loot was astonishing; a single unique or set drop could define your entire character for twenty levels.

Modern games just don't do this, and they have solid reasons not to. It isn't fun or interesting to let unaware players assign permanent resources to skills that will soon be useless; all that it did is give us forum-goons some undeserved advantages for talking about games rather than playing them. It isn't fun or interesting to reward players based on repetition rather than achievement; RPG grinders are just a gigantic pair of sunglasses away from being old ladies at slot machines.

In short, D2 was far more satisfying than it was fun, and modern game design focuses on cutting away the bits that aren't fun, and frowns on the cheap casino tactics that can make very dumb gameplay highly satisfying.

[violent]

Yeah, I can be something of a loot whore. When I play RPGs by myself I try to carry as much crap as possible. I hate leaving stuff behind, even the junk. Eventually I have to tell myself that the crappy dagger valued at 10 gold isn't worth it. :p

Well let me know if you're ever willing to give it another shot. I could use another playthrough.

[MagGnome]

Well let me know if you're ever willing to give it another shot. I could use another playthrough.

I'll definitely keep that in mind. :)

I also recently bought Titan Quest and have yet to play it.

[violent]

I'll definitely keep that in mind. :)

I also recently bought Titan Quest and have yet to play it.

My problem with that? Too much loot. Enjoy the Mecca.

[Arphahat]

After reading through here, it got me thinking about Titan Quest and I started another thread for grouping purposes. Anyone up for a game of Titan Quest: Immortal Throne should go post and "stuff."

Mag, don't be afraid of being a looting whore; I find that when I play with friends, it is much easier to suddenly be communist, where whoever can benefit most from an object gets it and ties are handled diplomatically.

[MagGnome]

My problem with that? Too much loot. Enjoy the Mecca.

Too much loot can definitely be a bad thing. One of the problems I had with Dungeon Siege was the sheer amount of crap that the game throws at you. I ended up leaving the vast majority of the items I found just laying around as they were pretty much all worthless.

Of course that game also basically played itself, which was my biggest problem with it. :p


Mag, don't be afraid of being a looting whore; I find that when I play with friends, it is much easier to suddenly be communist, where whoever can benefit most from an object gets it and ties are handled diplomatically.

Thanks! I'll embrace who I am. :D

[SilentScreams]

Yeah too much loot is certainly a bad thing.
I also believe that there should never be a "best" item for a class.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm in the last half hour of a bidding war for a Dreamcast on Ebay. :)

[maharahaj]

My problem with that? Too much loot. Enjoy the Mecca.

Yeah, that game has more loot than enemies. You quickly learn that its not worth it to warp back to town to sell stuff, but rather just leave it on the ground. And since there are so many +1 items that become available, all normal items cease to have a role in the game.

Get that "drink potion" quick key ready!

[Arphahat]

Yeah, my sop is to only pick up magical items and health / mana potions in games like these. You fill up much too quickly if you carry around everything you find.

The only exception is when I am at the beginning and don't have any magical gear. Then, I will pick up stuff to see if it is better than what I am using. If it is, I equip it, and then drop the other item.

[GigaFuzz]

Yeah, my sop is to only pick up magical items and health / mana potions in games like these. You fill up much too quickly if you carry around everything you find.

The only exception is when I am at the beginning and don't have any magical gear. Then, I will pick up stuff to see if it is better than what I am using. If it is, I equip it, and then drop the other item.

Once you've played it for a while you get a feel just from the names of loot whether or not it's worth picking up. Yellows quickly become obsolete and while some greens can be awesome, a lot you can disregard straight away based on it's name.

[Grifter]

How do you get Diablo 2 to run in windowed mode? I can't seem to find an option to do so.

[Rune_74]

you open up the shortcut and after the target "c:\Diablo2\diablo2.exe" -w don't forget to up the resolution in options after you start...

[MagGnome]

Yeah, my sop is to only pick up magical items and health / mana potions in games like these. You fill up much too quickly if you carry around everything you find.

The only exception is when I am at the beginning and don't have any magical gear. Then, I will pick up stuff to see if it is better than what I am using. If it is, I equip it, and then drop the other item.

That's what I end up doing as well. At first I pick up everything, then I ignore normals, then blues, etc. depending on the level that I'm at.

It's hard to leave things behind though.

Now I'm itching for a good dungeon crawl!


How do you get Diablo 2 to run in windowed mode? I can't seem to find an option to do so.

You can modify the name of the exe, which I didn't realize up until now. I was always using a keyboard shortcut before, although I don't remember it off the top of my head and a quick Google search didn't turn up anything.

[Rune_74]

Gee ignore my post Gnome...thats it too the garden with you...

[MagGnome]

Gee ignore my post Gnome...thats it too the garden with you...

Sorry about that. I saw your post, but for some reason I forgot to credit you in my reply. My mistake.

[Rune_74]

I forgive....hheeheheh

[Ravenlock]

Well, this thread made me reinstall D2+LOD and start playing again, thanks, jerks. ;) Just got finished with Act I starting a Necro from scratch.

I really wish that Blizzard would patch in a higher resolution than 800x600 so that we could play in Windowed mode without it looking so awfully tiny. On a 1280x1024 setup or higher, an 800x600 window is just too small.

Oh well, they've got better things to do, like work on D3. :D