Heroes Volume Four Starts Monday!

[Lint of Death]

Guess what, muchachos! Heroes returns Monday night, at 9PM EST. The guy behind such great first-volume episodes such as "Company Man" himself thinks the new season has a truly excellent start, and that he'll be working on the show again as a sort of consultant for the latter part of the same season onwards.

The first episode will be called "A Clear and Present Danger" and the introductory synopsis on the website is as follows:
Months after explosions brought down Pinehearst and Primatech, our Heroes try to put the past behind them and begin new lives. Now powerless, Hiro (Masi Oka) tries to train a reluctant Ando (James Kyson Lee) to be a true superhero. Suresh (Sendhil Ramamurthy) returns to life as a taxi driver, Peter (Milo Ventimiglia) is back to saving lives, and Daphne (guest star Brea Grant) and Matt (Greg Grunberg) try to live as a normal couple. Claire's (Hayden Panettiere) attempt to live a regular life is cut short when she uncovers a deadly plot orchestrated by Nathan (Adrian Pasdar) to track down and capture those with abilities. Meanwhile, Sylar (Zachary Quinto) begins the search for his real parents. Jack Coleman, Ali Larter and Cristine Rose also star. Ntare Mwine guest stars.

Show Cast: Adrian Pasdar, Milo Ventimiglia, Ali Larter, Hayden Panettiere, Greg Grunberg, Sendhil Ramamurthy, Masi Oka, Adrian Pasdar, Jack Coleman, James Kyson Lee, Dania Ramirez, Zachary Quinto, Cristine Rose

Well, I'm excited! I have heard a lot of promising things about the new volume. Anyone else going to watch when it airs Monday night?

[Suave Peanut]

After being let down by the second, I never watch Volume Three. Is it worth going back to catch up?

[Lint of Death]

After being let down by the second, I never watch Volume Three. Is it worth going back to catch up?

I personally thought the third volume was way better than the second, especially the latter half.

[DoctorFinger]

It's become very repetitive. That's not to say this half-season won't change that, but overall I've been disappointed with the show.

[Trogdor]

I'll probably watch volume 4, at least for a few weeks. It's anyone's guess as to why (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battered_person_syndrome).

[pomeroy]

I used to love this show. Season 2 was the first let down. And Season 3 wasn't even that bad...I just stopped watching. I realized I was a few episodes behind and I just didn't care anymore.

[Lutheran]

Bryan Fuller will be back actually writing for the show after the first 5 episodes are aired. He said the first 3 of the 5 are real good then the next 2 are a little convoluted. But from what I have seen in a few advance reviews by critics is that the 1st episode is more of the same lameness. Guess we will find out on Monday.

[Stoke]

Not even going to bother. By the end of last season it was so horrible I had to force myself to finish the season and even now I can't remember what happened. Maybe this season will be the one where the writers all graduate from kindergarten writing classes and make it at least partially unembarrassing to sit though. Then I could hulu it ;)

[PathMaster]

Last Volume picked up near the end.

I am actually more interested in getting my hands on some 3d glasses for Chuck. ARGH.

[Trogdor]

I am actually more interested in getting my hands on some 3d glasses for Chuck. ARGH.

I need to get my hands on some as well, it keeps slipping my mind and now I only have about a day to get them (no time tomorrow).

[n3rdXcore]

Where the hell can one pick up a pair of 3D glasses?

[Lint of Death]

D'oh! Somehow I wasn't awake for the first couple minutes of the hour. In any case,

Guess whose return to the show was accompanied by a certain song called "I Don't Want to Set the World on Fire"? I think some of you might recognize the tune :D

[Lint of Death]

Well that was way more action packed than I expected.

[PathMaster]

It was a good episode. Peter's power seems to be the latest power he had access to. Interesting if true.

[Lint of Death]

Good catch! I was wondering why his power seemed so inconsistent in the last scene. I think you are right, which means Sylar is the only remaining, introduced character capable of containing more than one power.

Also apparently Sylar has become extremely resistant to power-inhibiting mechanisms of any sort. I wonder how that happened o_O
Granted, I have seen a video on the Discovery Channel of a guy who obsessively trained himself to resist the effects of a taser. And it WORKED. He was able to overcome the electrical discharge just enough, and just fast enough, to yank the cables out of himself before he hit the ground.

[Generation ABXY]

Chances are, it'll be on Hulu tomorrow - where I watch these shows - but I'm not sure I'm going to bother with Heroes this time around. The last season just didn't do it for me...

[Cupelix]

I was honestly pleased with this episode. It had the right balance of power use versus character development. I will say that I'm really goddamn tired of Claire though. She's just a one note tune at this point. I did like the semi-twist of Angela apparently letting Claire overhear on purpose.

Good catch! I was wondering why his power seemed so inconsistent in the last scene. I think you are right, which means Sylar is the only remaining, introduced character capable of containing more than one power.Huh, I did not catch that implication at all, though it kind of makes sense based on the conversation he has with Nathan. They made a point to show that his power had changed, since it didn't need physical contact before.

Also apparently Sylar has become extremely resistant to power-inhibiting mechanisms of any sort.I attributed this to a) him having Elle's powers and b) him having Claire's healing powers. I'd say that b) is refuted by the fact that Claire gets captured, but we don't ever actually see her get tazed.

[Lint of Death]

I was honestly pleased with this episode. It had the right balance of power use versus character development. I will say that I'm really goddamn tired of Claire though. She's just a one note tune at this point. I did like the semi-twist of Angela apparently letting Claire overhear on purpose.

Huh, I did not catch that implication at all, though it kind of makes sense based on the conversation he has with Nathan. They made a point to show that his power had changed, since it didn't need physical contact before.

I attributed this to a) him having Elle's powers and b) him having Claire's healing powers. I'd say that b) is refuted by the fact that Claire gets captured, but we don't ever actually see her get tazed.

That semi-twist was indeed gnarly. I also agree on Claire being a rather dull character at this point, despite so many horrific experiences in the last season that you'd think would change her direction of development. Ah, well, teenagers will be teenagers.

Also, great point on Elle! Now that you have mentioned it there is no doubt in my mind that Sylar's acquisition of her ability grants him immunity to any taser. So long as he's grounded, of course :p

[Lint of Death]

Also, does anyone else think Nathan and the gov't are completely freakin' stupid for considering kidnapping Sylar and dumping him in a secret prison with every other special person they could find? I'm pretty glad that didn't work out, haha.

[Narradisall]

So this any good so far? I've watched them all and S2 was crap, S3 started off nearly as bad but actually started to improve towards the end. Hopefully chapter 4 will pick up this momentum. Otherwise I may just end up giving up.

[Lint of Death]

They've only had one episode. Just watch it online via the official website :)

[muddi900]

I stopped taking it seriously and the later half of the V3 was highly enjoyable. But it has become very inconsistent. So, now Peter can touch people and get there powers?

I'll probably as whole after the season is finished when the show's over!

[Lint of Death]

The show isn't inconsistent. Peter lost his power, forever. The formula has given him one that is very similar to what he once had, but isn't quite the same. Presumably this can be explained in the way his character developed while he was powerless.

[muddi900]

But weren't his powers genetic. Didn't the drug only wake up the dormant super human gene. That said, he had the power to fly, why the hell was he afraid of falling off the plane!

Also, all the likable characters,except Hiro, are gone.

[Lint of Death]

I won't argue that some characters died/disappeared that I truly miss in the series, like Adam and D.L., but the powers aren't entirely genetic. I'm quite certain that personality and background are factors into how it manifests, though definitely a big part of them relates to the powers present in a family. However, some seem to be complete curveballs, like Claire who has regenerative immortality even though her dad had no power (though received flight later) and her mom (and uncle therefore) were purest pyros.

Peter was afraid of falling off the plane because he couldn't fly. His power has seemed to shift so that he can only possess one power at a time, which gets overwritten when he makes deliberate contact with another person with abilities.

[muddi900]

How do you know that? Are you reading the comics?

[Zero]

Whenever he touched Mohinder he gained Mohinder's strength and started beating the crap outta the guards, but after Peter touched Tracy, he punched a guard and the guard didn't even feel it. Strength gone.

[PathMaster]

But he d id grab Mohinder again before he was let loose, so surviving the crash should be easy for him.

Edit: Also I would not be surprised to see Peter get Claire's power and possible get his regular power back. Maybe.

[Zero]

But he d id grab Mohinder again before he was let loose, so surviving the crash should be easy for him.



Super-strength doesn't equal invulnerability. Claire is the only one who could help him survive since he'd start regenerating immediately after impact.

[Lint of Death]

To be fair, Mohinder's power is extremely unclear, as it is apparently called "Enhanced Evolution" from the last ep of the volume 3.

[Zero]

To be fair, Mohinder's power is extremely unclear, as it is apparently called "Enhanced Evolution" from the last ep of the volume 3.

Yeah, but he's definitely not resistant to injury as shown by how he was captured.

So... what happens if Peter touches Sylar? I'd like to think that it'll cause a season finale Deus Ex Machina.

[Lint of Death]

Yeah, but he's definitely not resistant to injury as shown by how he was captured.

So... what happens if Peter touches Sylar? I'd like to think that it'll cause a season finale Deus Ex Machina.

Well, the only injury he suffered in his attempt to escape was essentially just one from some sort of cattle prod knife thing, an already established weakness of all but one or two characters. Nonetheless, yeah, Peter may very well still be in mortal danger and I'm eager to see what happens to him.

As for Peter nabbing Sylar's ability... I figure it would be similar to him acquiring it as he did in volume 3 where they spent more time ironing out what exactly Sylar does, except now Peter would have the choice to get rid of it whenever he wanted. Therefore, I suspect that Peter simply would never try for it unless he got extremely desperate for the kind of near-limitless might he once possessed. Again, though, I don't think Peter wants to go that far a second time.

[Lint of Death]

I missed the first scene of the episode this week so I'm watching now with commentary. Man, it really does bring to light the cool things they're doing with the change in volumes. Apparently every time they change volume they try to give it a distinct look and feel. And now I see it, for this one, "Fugitives", the shots are frequently shaky cam and almost always taken from voyeuristic perspectives. The color palette for most scenes leans strongly toward black and beige. Like modern video games! :D

[Heresyte]

To be fair, Mohinder's power is extremely unclear, as it is apparently called "Enhanced Evolution" from the last ep of the volume 3.
Mohinder is Captain America.

The episode didn't seem like that big of a change, but it did interest me more than I was expecting it to, so I guess I'll give the show yet another chance and watch it for a while more.

[Veregon]

The new Peter needs a white lock of hair so we can call him Rogue.

[PathMaster]

Was a mixed bag for me. What was good, was excellent. What was not, was just so so.

Ma Petrelli seems once again to be pulling some strings. Parkman should have went ballistic and wiped them all out. I also almost feel that if Hiro gets his powers, he will retcon a lot of stuff.

Peter's power was confirmed, one at a time. How he survived, was not shown though.

Despite my issues with some things, like Sylar's sidekick stroyline, it shows promise.

[DoctorFinger]

Please tell me they didn't kill of Daphne. The best thing that's happened to the show in an age, and they off her (maybe). Brilliant!

[DeathtollWRX]

Okay the show has taken an interesting turn. I'm a little upset now, The next thing you know we are going to see sentinels. I hope episode 2 is better

[Lint of Death]

I'm an idiot and forgot to watch. Hell week at college here! I'll see it later today I bet... as a break :(

[Lint of Death]

Just watched it. Wow! I really liked it. Apart from the Daphne bit. Arrrgh!
It is a nice twist that they're finding ways to make the nicest characters the angriest characters. It looks like Matt and Peter are sweeping up a small squadron of nice people to do mean things.

"Hiro... How did you get here? Did you get your powers back?"
"No. I'm powerless. The hero's path is never easy." said completely deadpan. Comedy gold :D

Man am I surprised that Sylar has kept the kid alive this long, though I can understand. I don't know what his dad is capable of, but somehow I suspect the dad is gonna kill the boy. Whatever happens, I think for the moment they're trying to make up for Sylar's trip up from Latin America (for those who didn't enjoy it), and I think it's worked great so far. That microwave's a vicious power!

[Lint of Death]

From the latest comic on the Heroes site it sounds like not only are those text messages Claire got not from Peter (the sender's codename is 'Libertad'), but a lot of disparate people with abilities (or former owners of abilities) are receiving them, including Maya. Not that anybody really cares about Maya anymore, but I find that detail intriguing.

[n3rdXcore]

I have totally lost touch with the online comics. I don't think I've read one since the end of season 1. Does anything interesting or revealing happen in them?

[Lint of Death]

I only started looking at them with season 3. They tend to release a comic relevant to either the upcoming episode or the one that just aired. They're not always good (I think the one I described above sucks, to be honest), but occasionally they are quite interesting, like one of the last of volume 3's, in which you get to experience Arthur Petrelli's death and last thoughts from his perspective.

On that note I really admire this series's tendency to avoid the stupid trope of conversations with those who should be dead already.

[Lint of Death]

Tonight episode? AMAZING. I'm about to go to sleep so that's all I have to say.

[PathMaster]

I agree. It was terrific right down to the music Sylar turned on while driving.

Also, Chuck was badass too.

[Lint of Death]

Was one of those songs Sylar played by Brian Eno? Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with English-language music to recognize that sort of stuff, though they seemed a little familiar.

[Wombat]

Does anyone else think that there is more to that kid than has been revealed? I was actually entertaining the thought that he actually IS Sylar's father.

[Lint of Death]

Does anyone else think that there is more to that kid than has been revealed? I was actually entertaining the thought that he actually IS Sylar's father.

That'd be amazing.

My Dad today suggested that the address Luke wrote is false, but because it was written rather than spoken Sylar can't detect the lie.

[Stoke]

That'd be amazing.

My Dad today suggested that the address Luke wrote is false, but because it was written rather than spoken Sylar can't detect the lie.

Didn't he tell Sylar that that was the address of his dad when Sylar asked him what is was though?

[PathMaster]

I too thought it might be Sylar's dad. He is masquerading as the boy, and quite possibly has a similar power to his son.

[Lint of Death]

YES
His dad can shapeshift, Sylar kills him and takes that power, goes back to New York and blows it up, and then usurps Nathan's impending presidential bid, strengthening the eliminate-abilities program as he goes. Somehow Mohinder and Matt end up working for him, and Peter starts dating Tracy Strauss.
Ba ha ha ha :D

[PathMaster]

YES
His dad can shapeshift, Sylar kills him and takes that power, goes back to New York and blows it up, and then usurps Nathan's impending presidential bid, strengthening the eliminate-abilities program as he goes. Somehow Mohinder and Matt end up working for him, and Peter starts dating Tracy Strauss.
Ba ha ha ha :D

Had me until Peter dates Tracy, he only dates short blondes, sorry.

[Stoke]

Had me until Peter dates Tracy, he only dates short blondes, sorry.

She looks like she's in some pretty hot water right now, maybe she'll shrink. :D

[PathMaster]

Not as good as the original HRG episode, but still good. I was hoping for more action, and the second half made up for the first.

Daphne being alive is good news. Parkman needs to regrow some balls. Maybe he was tired, but he should just wipe the minds of all of them.

I like the role reversal this time. Lack of Sylar this episode, but instead of being the villain this season, he might just be the savior. At the same time, HRG is playing the government for fools, and I think Mohinder is in on it.

Another bomb prophecy is kind of droll, but might be a useful over arching plot device.

Also, was Peter able to grab another power, or did he just not touch Parkman?

[PathMaster]

Great episode. Peter can control what power he absorbs which is good I guess. Sylar looks to be wanting and perhaps might get revenge.

Nathan is such a pain, one minute he is antagonistic towards others, next he wants to save them, perhaps he has a split personality.

I have heard that one original Hero will die for good, next week might show who that will be.

Chuck was terrific again. Morgan and Chuck rooming together would be sweet, but alas, that was taken away from us!

Puppermaster return was unexpected.

[Lint of Death]

Both Chuck and Heroes were great tonight, I totally agree!

I think Peter's good at the mind control because he's used the power before. Granted, he's only used that form of the power once, and just in resisting Matt's efforts at the end of season 2.

I really like how they push the angle of Peter, Matt, and Mohinder fighting for no more than who they care about. Peter and Matt repeatedly get themselves in dangerous situations for the sakes of others but don't have the weakness of heart to hurt anyone. Mohinder is more violent in this regard - by the way it's pretty cool how Peter and Matt have no idea what happened to him, he's really just disappeared - but it seems to stem from his idea that he deserves karmic punishment for his previous actions.

Next episode is going to be intense, no doubt about it. As for what you heard about them killing one of the original characters, I really, really hope they don't. The ones left now, generally, I like too much.

edit: By the way, did Mohinder's beginning and end monologues stop when he was captured, or did the stop before then? Anyone know?

double edit: Oh, yeah, thanks for mentioning the Puppetmaster! Somehow I forgot. What an ingenious way to bring back a great aspiring actor. I remember in the online cast/crew commentaries, any episode he was in the people watching would just heap praise on him, so I'm happy to see his character back and alive.

[cppcrusader]

I just now realized the likely identity of Rebel, Micah.

[DoctorFinger]

This episode made me realize something. The producers have done a wonderful job of turning Claire's mother into a nice, well rounded character. Remember back to the first season? She was pretty much a nothing character designed to make Clare and Noah's lives difficult. Now she's by far the most competent and likable character on the show. Which goes to prove the producers CAN make a character likable, which makes the current state of Parkman, Claire, Peter, Hiro and Ando all the more inexplicable.

[cppcrusader]

This episode made me realize something. The producers have done a wonderful job of turning Claire's mother into a nice, well rounded character. Remember back to the first season? She was pretty much a nothing character designed to make Clare and Noah's lives difficult. Now she's by far the most competent and likable character on the show. Which goes to prove the producers CAN make a character likable, which makes the current state of Parkman, Claire, Peter, Hiro and Ando all the more inexplicable.

I'd say it probably has something to do with having a character like Claire's mother become more developed has a lot to do with the fact that she's more or less a clean slate.

Now the established characters fall into the same problem that exist in comics. The major characters are established and you can't really develop them any further for good or bad. Sooner or later they all return to whatever their hangups are, regardless of whether a previous writer got them past it. It's something that annoys me in both comics and Heroes. Superman can only come to terms with his alien heritage so many times.

[Lint of Death]

Now the established characters fall into the same problem that exist in comics. The major characters are established and you can't really develop them any further for good or bad. Sooner or later they all return to whatever their hangups are, regardless of whether a previous writer got them past it. It's something that annoys me in both comics and Heroes. Superman can only come to terms with his alien heritage so many times.

I disagree with this entirely. The characters can continue to change, all it takes is putting the characters in difficult situations. Mohinder, for example, has gone through quite a lot of changes since the beginning of the series. Matt and Peter have developed immensely, as well - this season especially has done a great job mixing development with consideration of the sort of people they used to be. Sylar changes every time he takes a power, AND he has changed quite a bit. This season and the past one especially have taken his character in wild but believable new directions.

The only still-living characters that have seemed truly 'stuck' to me are HRG and Claire, but I think recent developments in their household are looking to fix that. Nathan as a character is just way to difficult to read for me to judge if he's ever been 'stuck'.

As for Rebel being Micah, I can't imagine any established character who would fit better. However, I have trouble believing that he has that sort of incredible awareness that he's expressed thus far. He could be using the Internet to access surveillance data or something, but why would he find out about any of this? I don't think it's the whole picture.

[Lint of Death]

By the way, is anyone else enjoying Hunter as a character? I really liked his interaction with Peter when Peter tried to assassinate him. Even better was this episode when he was so sure he could taken on two mind-controllers. "Well he hasn't met me!" Then he's greeted at the door by two 'influenced' guards drawing guns on him, and he backs down :p

[cppcrusader]

I disagree with this entirely. The characters can continue to change, all it takes is putting the characters in difficult situations. Mohinder, for example, has gone through quite a lot of changes since the beginning of the series. Matt and Peter have developed immensely, as well - this season especially has done a great job mixing development with consideration of the sort of people they used to be. Sylar changes every time he takes a power, AND he has changed quite a bit. This season and the past one especially have taken his character in wild but believable new directions.

The only still-living characters that have seemed truly 'stuck' to me are HRG and Claire, but I think recent developments in their household are looking to fix that. Nathan as a character is just way to difficult to read for me to judge if he's ever been 'stuck'.

As for Rebel being Micah, I can't imagine any established character who would fit better. However, I have trouble believing that he has that sort of incredible awareness that he's expressed thus far. He could be using the Internet to access surveillance data or something, but why would he find out about any of this? I don't think it's the whole picture.

Sylar's not really a good example here of character growth. His character development is more in line with Claire's mother. Started as this tool for the writers to initiate plot points and ended up becoming a fully rounded character.

I'm not saying that it's not possible for the characters to make permanent forward progress, just that it's flaw that exists and seems to be difficult to get past in both mediums. I agree that Matt and Peter have finally made some real progress in their characters. Most of this problem stems from Vol. 2 anyway when half the characters reverted back to how they were at the beginning of Vol 1. I'd say Hiro is the worst offender in this respect. I like his character, but I'm getting tired of watching him rediscover his powers/relearn what it means to be a hero.

I can't tell if Nathan is stuck either. At best I'd say his character is eternally a bit of a dick, which lets him switch sides whenever it suits him.

[Lint of Death]

Sylar's not really a good example here of character growth. His character development is more in line with Claire's mother. Started as this tool for the writers to initiate plot points and ended up becoming a fully rounded character.

I'm not saying that it's not possible for the characters to make permanent forward progress, just that it's flaw that exists and seems to be difficult to get past in both mediums. I agree that Matt and Peter have finally made some real progress in their characters. Most of this problem stems from Vol. 2 anyway when half the characters reverted back to how they were at the beginning of Vol 1. I'd say Hiro is the worst offender in this respect. I like his character, but I'm getting tired of watching him rediscover his powers/relearn what it means to be a hero.

Fortunately, I think we're pretty much done with Hiro's meaning-of-hero discovery for a good while now. His last remaining quest, as he saw it, was learning how to be a hero without his powers, which he just recently decided he had accomplished. The interesting thing that seems to be building with him is an obsession with the powers he used to have, combined with surprisingly strong jealousy over his friend Ando. I get the strong impression that Hiro will not have his powers back for a very long time, so that should be enough to change him for the time being.

Going back to Sylar, he's a rather tough one to call a blank slate. I agree completely that for the first part of season 1 he was a plot device first and a character second. I also agree that he developed very little in season 2 - his plotline was basically just him getting back to the States and fighting for his life. At least in the latter half of the first season, though, he did quite a bit of soul-searching. He went back to his mom and tried to retreat into a normal life, and he repeatedly altered his worldview, and so forth. His perspective on things was part of what made the first season finale so excellent to me - he believed he was the hero, stopping the bomb!

[PathMaster]

I can see Micah as being Rebel, but it would seem a far to tame "pseudonym" for someone so young.

[Lint of Death]

I can see Micah as being Rebel, but it would seem a far to tame "pseudonym" for someone so young.

I can't even imagine Micah considering himself a rebel, even less that he could so easily evade capture. Even if he's got Memory Teen on his side...

I know!

Hana Gitelman - the woman from the first season who telepathically transmits messages by wire - is the one sending the 'Rebel' messages. Claude sneaks around, invisible, turning on computers and manipulating interfaces. Then, they got Ted Sprague to use his radiation as an EMP to shut down the power at building 26.

[Veregon]

Hana Gitelman - the woman from the first season who telepathically transmits messages by wire - is the one sending the 'Rebel' messages.If that's the woman who in the comic somehow became part of the internet then I agree. I don't remember if that was her name or not. All I remember is her "dying" and merging into the internet and then sending messages to Micah.

[Lint of Death]

If that's the woman who in the comic somehow became part of the internet then I agree. I don't remember if that was her name or not. All I remember is her "dying" and merging into the internet and then sending messages to Micah.

Haha I recently read the synopses of some of those on the Heroes wiki and I just cannot push myself to read them. For most of season one, I just kept waiting for her to come back!

[Lint of Death]

Hay guys, if you want to see what Sylar's dad looks like, check out the preview for the next episode (http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/nexton/episode_319.shtml).

[DylonCorp]

Hay guys, if you want to see what Sylar's dad looks like, check out the preview for the next episode (http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/nexton/episode_319.shtml).

No WAY!! GLEE GLEE GLEE!!!!1

[Lint of Death]

No WAY!! GLEE GLEE GLEE!!!!1

It makes me wish I'd ever watched Smallville. I hear that was/is a good show :p

[DylonCorp]

It makes me wish I'd ever watched Smallville. I hear that was/is a good show :p

The show is meh. The Magnificent Bastard, however, was just like Tony the Tiger said.

And let us not forget Gremlins 2. Like, ever.

[Lint of Death]

Wow, another great episode! Sylar's dad was great. For anyone who looked closely at the closing moments behind Mohinder's monologue and/or saw the preview for the next one: holy shit, next week's gonna be intense.

[PathMaster]

Chuck was great, although Sarah needs to just jump Chuck and get it over with.

Heroes was terrific. I hope we see Sylar's father again, and soon. The introduction of Parkman's child was a nice intro. I wonder how Nathan will handle his new situation though. I also wonder what Sylar's goal is to be in the guys apartment at the end?

[Lint of Death]

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2111/633636909690322504sylar.jpg

[Lint of Death]

By the way, from the on-air preview of the next episode, you could see that starting next week Ando uses his new power for destructive purposes.

[Lint of Death]

Well, well, well!
It is Micah!
I wasn't excited about the idea, but they reintroduced him well at least for the couple seconds he's been on thus far. Honestly makes a lot of sense why he cares so much about Tracy. This episodes been really really good so far!! I think it's written by Fuller now that he's back, who did "Company Man" in season 1.

[PathMaster]

Chuck was good, as usual. Helfer next week should be great.

Heroes. Started to realize it was Micah, when they mentioned the special attempts to get Strauss out. Who else would want one of the blonde clones out? Looks like the third clone bit the dust now. She did kick some ass though. Maybe she lived..maybe..

Woo, Hiro has his powers back?! Sort of? Perhaps, baby Parkman can fix powers?

Daphne dead for real this time it appears. Now I wonder what Parkman will really do.

It also appears Mother Petrelli mistook Peter and his feelings. Now if only Peter could get the full scope of his powers back. Statue ending was neat as well.

[Lint of Death]

Wow, what a fantastic ep. Daphne hit like a ton of bricks :(

There's still Barbara, whatever she does, so the actress still has potential presence.

Yeah, the baby can restore power of apparently any sort. I really like how Fuller (this episode was so good, he must've written it) worked in a dialogue about Hiro's mom so flawlessly that worked so well it was amazing they hadn't touched on that moment before.

I do wonder how Peter found her, unless there was a detail I missed about where Angela was at the time. It's nice to see Suresh free, too, though his introduction to the captive room was HILARIOUS.

Looks like next ep Danko finds out who's helping him, and we get to know why!

[Wombat]

I have a feeling that Strauss may be ice woman completely now.

[Lint of Death]

I was kind of wondering if she would come back after turning herself to ice. Somehow I don't think she would have lived even if she hadn't been shot.

[Philonious]

I was kind of wondering if she would come back after turning herself to ice. Somehow I don't think she would have lived even if she hadn't been shot.

Except that half of her head winked at us after she was blown to pieces, so I wouldn't count her out just yet. Which is too bad, it would have been great for the character to go out after having redeemed herself like that.

I enjoyed the ep, but I hope that they start working toward a larger unifying plot soon... Hiro and Peter are both overpowered so I can understand why the writers felt the need to gimp them, but I hope that they bring them back to full-strength before the end of the season. How are the rating doing this year? The show hasn't been great in a while, but I'm not quite ready to give up on it. (Though Chuck is consistently better and I would save it before any other show on TV aside from LOST.)

[Lint of Death]

Except that half of her head winked at us after she was blown to pieces, so I wouldn't count her out just yet. Which is too bad, it would have been great for the character to go out after having redeemed herself like that.

I already wanted to watch this ep again online, but now I definitely will since I didn't notice the wink.

edit: Also, Bryan Fuller (along with Masi Oka, Hiro) is on the audio commentary if you turn it on when you watch it online!!! He did write the episode!

[Rogue_hunter]

edit: Also, Bryan Fuller (along with Masi Oka, Hiro) is on the audio commentary if you turn it on when you watch it online!!! He did write the episode!

So THAT'S why it was actually a good episode as of late. ;)

[Lint of Death]

Awwh! According the commentary, before they had to cut the episode down to length, Tracy Strauss also freed the Puppetman, who was clearly going to proceed to start kickin' ass in building 26. At least that deleted scene'll be on the DVD :p

late edit: hey, you're right, she DOES blink! When I saw it last night I thought it was just a tear. Man oh man does Bryan Fuller let loose a few spoilers in the commentary, too! :p

[PathMaster]

I too missed the blink. I can only imagine the damage Puppet Master would do inside the building. He would be on the same level as Parkman.

[DylonCorp]

I took the wink as artistic license, not that she was going to come back. Kind of a "last moment" or like the Dharma logo on the shark. But I have been wrong with this show. A lot.

[Lint of Death]

I took the wink as artistic license, not that she was going to come back. Kind of a "last moment" or like the Dharma logo on the shark. But I have been wrong with this show. A lot.

This is where Fuller's commentary comes in and says that the purpose of the wink was to make it clear that she didn't die rather than leaving the question up in the air, since keeping superheroes dead tends to be a bit of a challenge - not with this show! Fuller added that Daphne is really dead, gone.

[DylonCorp]

This is where Fuller's commentary comes in and says that the purpose of the wink was to make it clear that she didn't die rather than leaving the question up in the air, since keeping superheroes dead tends to be a bit of a challenge - not with this show! Fuller added that Daphne is really dead, gone.

Ah. I guess I just want her dead.

[Lint of Death]

Watching the new episode... Anyone know what the fuck Sylar just did? One moment he was in Danko's car, the next he was gone and on a nearby rooftop!

[Stoke]

Watching the new episode... Anyone know what the fuck Sylar just did? One moment he was in Danko's car, the next he was gone and on a nearby rooftop!

I'm wondering that too. The only things it could be are teleportation or that mind manipulation thing that Parkman can do. I don't see any other way for him to move that fast.

[PathMaster]

Good Chuck as usual. And let it be known, Tricia Helfer can be my stripper anytime.
Ladybugs can all be ladies?! Next week looks really good as well.

Heroes was okay for me. Nothing special. Although the Denko/Sylar duo is interesting.

And I think I finally put it together that Claire, even though she has two fathers, thinks she doesn't even have one. I think HRG saw through the Sylar/Denko charade, but he does not know how. But now there is one of each. I also wonder who the sister to Petrelli is and what she can do.

[Stoke]

Good Chuck as usual. And let it be known, Tricia Helfer can be my stripper anytime.
Ladybugs can all be ladies?! Next week looks really good as well.

Heroes was okay for me. Nothing special. Although the Denko/Sylar duo is interesting.

And I think I finally put it together that Claire, even though she has two fathers, thinks she doesn't even have one. I think HRG saw through the Sylar/Denko charade, but he does not know how. But now there is one of each. I also wonder who the sister to Petrelli is and what she can do.

I'm enjoying the Sylar/Danko partnership. I hope it continues for a while without one betraying the other, although that's probably how it's going to end.

Also, Claire's new hairstyle gets a thumbs up from me. First time I've ever thought she was cute.

[Lint of Death]

Heroes was okay for me. Nothing special. Although the Denko/Sylar duo is interesting.

And I think I finally put it together that Claire, even though she has two fathers, thinks she doesn't even have one. I think HRG saw through the Sylar/Denko charade, but he does not know how. But now there is one of each. I also wonder who the sister to Petrelli is and what she can do.

I liked the episode a lot, personally. All these pairs working out their problems, even Sylar and Danko :o

I found Nathan's story here to be especially powerful. In volume three they showed how strongly he aspired to his father's perceived greatness, and now we see just how much he also takes after his mother. The moment where he passed out rambling about how he was going to fix everything was quite moving.

I can't believe I didn't see it coming! Sylar using the shapeshifter to fake his own death. Well, that's it then. We're gonna have a Petrelli President who's actually Sylar working to round up and kill all the people with abilities. As for HRG suspecting that Danko was working with Sylar, I'll bet that's part of why they used the shapeshifter. Danko's leaving HRG with the implication that, maybe Danko really was working with him, but ultimately it was to bag the guy.

As for Angela's sister, I'll bet you Nathan's watch that she's dead.

edit:
Also, Claire's new hairstyle gets a thumbs up from me. First time I've ever thought she was cute.

It kind of reminds me of a Colombian singer I listen to, Fanny Lú. Actually what I found weirder about Claire this episode is that she seemed so much older! I'm not sure why, she usually does a good job pretending to be a teen.

[Lint of Death]

I missed the first minute or two, but wowwww, this episode is good so far. Sylar is a true son of a bitch.

[Lint of Death]

Also, big props to anyone who played Sylar's transformed selves. They conveyed his character brilliantly, especially the last guy.

[PathMaster]

Finally got a chance to watch last weeks episode. It was excellent. "Ando make the face!"

I liked how each side got to the other. Parkman to Danko and Sylar to HRG.

I also like how Hathan was above Hiro and Ando flying as well as Coyote Springs that everyone seems to be connecting to.

Tonights ep should be good.

[Lint of Death]

I'm stoked to watch, it's supposed to be a look back in time to events from 1961 involving Angela Petrelli, her sister, and Chandra Suresh. The most interesting part about that to me is actually that Mohinder is at Coyote Sands with the others Angela gathered. I can't remember if our visions of her dream included him and she certainly didn't contact him to show up.

And only 3 episodes left in Fugitives. I can't believe how fast it's gone. The great news is that the next webisode series, tying directly to the end of Fugitives, follows the antics of The Puppet Man!

[Lint of Death]

:' (

[PathMaster]

First thing, the people that played the younger versions did an excellent job.

The Alice story line was a bit weak, but I got the point. Don't lie and do better next time.

I enjoyed the episode. Reminds me a lot of the first year.

Chuck was also excellent as usual.

[Lint of Death]

I thought the Alice storyline was heartbreaking. Is she the first mentally challenged character in the show? Everything turned out to be Angela's fault (edit - in a way), but, even excepting that, what she did to her sister was horrible!!

I like how they've been playing up the friendship between Mohinder, Peter, and Matt, but it just feels so weird how they keep on letting each other go.
Also it seems that Sylar can now shapeshift without touching the other person. I'm actually glad they brought back the Sylar-shapeshifter like this because, with all of his personal developments since season 1, the role is now so much more fitting.

Annnd now we know how Arthur Petrelli was able to wipe peoples' minds all the time!

[muddi900]

This seems a lot like Crisis on Infinite Heroes. I have reason to believe that by the end of this season, Sylar would be depowered a bit, Pinehearst would be back and nobody would people with abilities exist. I hope that they carry this momentum into next season.

[Lint of Death]

Nah, this volume is definitely not going to culminate in a reset. Sylar's gotten so far that they seem to be setting him up to be someone who dies in the series, but nonetheless I really enjoy what they're doing with him. I wonder how he got Nathan's form? He can already shapeshift to people he hasn't touched?!

Pinehearst is done. Primatech is also done. Peter especially wants to put emphasis on doing things right this time, with secrecy and decency rather than murder and subterfuge. It does sound like they're trying extra hard to come up with ways to get the characters back to doing normal-people-stuff, as a lot of time was spent this episode lamenting about the loss of a normal life, but this won't be a reboot by any means. The world will be quite different.

[PathMaster]

Really good Chuck, although I am unsure how the removal of the Intersect will play out. Although the preview for next week shows Bryce back, which in addition to Chuck's Dad could mean another Intersect/update. Looks good.

Clint Howard had a good cameo at the start of Heroes, with a good power.

I wish the focus of the show would not be on Sylar so much, but he is good at what he does. Sylar's identity crisis is great though. What happened to Hiro? Someone interrupted my viewing towards the end.

I do appreciate that little info was given about next week's episode.

[Lint of Death]

I wish the focus of the show would not be on Sylar so much, but he is good at what he does. Sylar's identity crisis is great though. What happened to Hiro? Someone interrupted my viewing towards the end.

I do appreciate that little info was given about next week's episode.

Haha, I feel the same way! Sylar is still so excellent in this show, but at the same time I would have preferred they give more time to Mohinder finding out what his father did. It seemed pretty mortifying! Annnd, somehow the feds found him in middle-of-nowhere Coyote Sands. Hopefully that gets explained like they did with Sylar finding Nathan's travel toothbrush.

I wonder what it is about Sylar's shapeshifting that has allowed him to cheat death... and if this new disintegration power is going to end up like the melting one - almost wholly unused.

As for what happened to Hiro, we don't know yet. All we know is that he tried to stop time, and instead he suffered head injury and has started bleeding a lot. My guess is it has something to do with proximity to Building 26, but beyond the Haitian (who hasn't come back for Fugitives) I have no idea what could have done that. Since the pair haven't been attacked it seems like whatever happened did not alert the feds.

I agree, nice preview for the next episode, they make it look like damn near everyone dies. Nathan, Hiro, and Peter seem to top that list of possibilities, though. Danko survived the end of the episode, so he could very well survive the next one.

[Zero]

As for what happened to Hiro, we don't know yet. All we know is that he tried to stop time, and instead he suffered head injury and has started bleeding a lot. My guess is it has something to do with proximity to Building 26, but beyond the Haitian (who hasn't come back for Fugitives) I have no idea what could have done that. Since the pair haven't been attacked it seems like whatever happened did not alert the feds.

I actually thought it had more to do with Ando having his hand on Hiro's shoulder when Hiro tried time-stopping.

[cppcrusader]

Annnd, somehow the feds found him in middle-of-nowhere Coyote Sands. Hopefully that gets explained like they did with Sylar finding Nathan's travel toothbrush.


I'm thinking they found Molly and are forcing her to locate everyone for them. That's the best way I can think of to explain the fact that they located where everyone was all of a sudden.

[Veregon]

Danko said that they found info in Rebel's files that would lead them to the rest.

[Lint of Death]

I'm thinking they found Molly and are forcing her to locate everyone for them. That's the best way I can think of to explain the fact that they located where everyone was all of a sudden.

I've decided to just accept that they found a way to figure out where he was. One of the things I like about the government initiative is how they don't work with special people, and so they avoid being a plot reptread of Primatech + Molly Walker. She's the 'bset' at what she does, but there's no way this agency would want to use her (or much of any clever, not-ignorant tactics for that matter), and that gives the feds a different feel.

Danko said that they found info in Rebel's files that would lead them to the rest.
Ah! Now that you say it, that rings a bell but I must not have been paying too much attention when he said it. Probably got hung up on 'where did they get his files'. Were they in the warehouse or summat?

[Veregon]

I assume they were in the warehouse, with Sylar showing up immediately after the power cut out Micah probably didn't grab all his stuff when he left.

[Lint of Death]

I assume they were in the warehouse, with Sylar showing up immediately after the power cut out Micah probably didn't grab all his stuff when he left.

Ahaaa, and, given that these events are supposed to take place just before/during those at Coyote Sands, the chain of events makes perfect sense.

[Lint of Death]

nnnnnnnNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Lint of Death]

I could go on.

[Rogue_hunter]

So, they completely ignored the most obvious answer, and something that they've been able to do twice.

Epic lame season finale.

[muddi900]

Heroes has been written into a mess. Considering that, it could've been a whole lot worse.

[Lint of Death]

So, they completely ignored the most obvious answer, and something that they've been able to do twice

I thought it was an excellent finale. What a miserable death for Nathan! A fitting one for a politician, though, he didn't get to say anything :p
As for them not going for the 'obvious' solution, I don't think the writers are so dumb as to have forgotten about Claire's blood... especially with HRG part of the decision-making. I suspect there's something else going on there with Angela's and HRG's plotting. Angela has always had a way of trying to convince others to do things that end up being terrible ideas. It's one of the funny ironies about her ability to dream 'the future'.

[muddi900]

Oh the Vol. 5 opening was totally bad ass.

"It's running one and a half minute faster" tiktiktiktik

[Lint of Death]

I liked that opening, too, even though I was hoping they wouldn't make the latent Sylar so obvious yet. This is a fantastic Sylar reboot nonetheless: with all of his memories gone, I'll bet that he loses EVERY power except for his original - even telekinesis and regeneration. On the flipside, with all of those Nathan memories, he should be able to fly.

Plus, without Nathan, at least it's a way to keep both the actor and a semblance of his character on the show, and Adrian Pasdar has been one of the best parts of the show - even if the writers haven't always done his character justice.

[Zero]

It's interesting how within days of each other Dollhouse and Heroes used the same basic plot device to "revive" a person.

[muddi900]

As I said in the Dollhouse thread, it's and old sci-fi concept. It's certainly not original.

[Mike Kelehan]

Okay, so, volume five is all about Nathan's crippling OCD. Great.

[cppcrusader]

I just watched the finale last night and for the most part I liked it. I like how they seem to be setting up an Identity Crisis-esque story for the next volume.

What I was extremely disappointed by was another big power throwdown behind closed doors. That's getting really old.

[muddi900]

I just watched the finale last night and for the most part I liked it. I like how they seem to be setting up an Identity Crisis-esque story for the next volume.

What I was extremely disappointed by was another big power throwdown behind closed doors. That's getting really old.

They neither have the writers and the audience for such a story. If anything Heroes has shown is that doing drama on a weekly basis around characters with Superpowers becomes absurd.

[Lint of Death]

They neither have the writers and the audience for such a story. If anything Heroes has shown is that doing drama on a weekly basis around characters with Superpowers becomes absurd.

What do you mean they don't have the writers for it? For one thing Bryan Fuller's back on the show for the latter part of this volume and has already done one of the better episodes of the entire series.

[Telefrog]

This show is my personal journey into writing hell. It's awful. Mind bogglingly, gut-churning, blood-boiling, facepalm awful.

Please don't ever let it go away.

[Lint of Death]

This show is my personal journey into writing hell. It's awful. Mind bogglingly, gut-churning, blood-boiling, facepalm awful.

Please don't ever let it go away.

Huh, the writing generally seems great to me. What wrong with it?

[Wombat]

As I said in the Dollhouse thread, it's and old sci-fi concept. It's certainly not original.

It goes beyond that even, it's essentially a Sci-Fi take on The Prisoner of Zenda, and I'm sure someone can go back further to find something. The double being unwilling makes it slightly different, but that's really just throwing in a bit of The Manchurian Candidate on top.

[muddi900]

What do you mean they don't have the writers for it? For one thing Bryan Fuller's back on the show for the latter part of this volume and has already done one of the better episodes of the entire series.

Bryan Fuller is not a god. He can't do magic. Also, a story on Identity Crisis scale requires multiple episodes, which mean multiple writers. It also requires a fucking status quo. They can't stay in one place for 2 episodes, who's to say they will do that for a whole season?

If you really want to see their amazing writing abilities, check out volume 3 again. They had no clue what to do with any of the characters.

Season 1:
"Save the cheerleader, save the world"

Season 3:
"You can not has death cheerleader"

[Veregon]

I decided to take them not using Claire's blood as a sign that they are ignoring some of the stupid things the shitty season 2 writers did, such as Claire's blood being able to bring anyone back to life.

[Zero]

Naw, I'm willing to bet they'll play that card when Sylar gets loose again.

[Telefrog]

Huh, the writing generally seems great to me. What wrong with it?

Let me start with this episode's bad writing. I won't even have to mention the fact that they ignored Claire's insta-heal blood because I agree that it's a good idea to retcon it away for the sake of drama.

How could Noah, Angela, and Parkman think that letting Sylar (even with Nathan's memories overriding his) be a Senator is a good idea?

What happened to President Worf? Did he get kidnapped? Did Peter somehow convince him to stay indoors? How did "the President" get a drugged Sylar back up to the room? What's the fallout of this incident?

Wouldn't it be easier to have Peter (with his newly gleaned morph powers) impersonate Nathan for a few weeks then resign due to "family issues"?

How did Danko's men know Mohinder was hiding out at the abandoned base? I know they mentioned that they got a lot of data from Rebel's stuff, but why would he know that Mohinder is sitting out in the middle of bumfuck?

Oh and sorry, a Secret Service agent would not give you the chance to put your head up to his gun when he's ordering you to get on the floor, even if you are a pretty blonde teen.

As to the general season:

What was Mohinder's purpose? Or Ando and Hiro's wild ride?

Why is Sylar a convenient plot device from episode to episode? In this episode, Sylar has daddy issues. In this episode, he has mommy issues. In this episode, he's a remorseless killer. In this one, not so much. I get that he's supposed to be insane and unpredictable, but there are credulous limits.

Why are people, supposedly in positions of power and entirely aware of Sylar's lethality and shifting loyalties, continually written to offer him the opportunity to get stronger and screw shit up royally?

Knowing what Anglea Petrelli went through at the relocation camp, how should a viewer reconcile that with her willingness to kill or kidnap whomever has powers?

Knowing what Noah has gone through, why would he continue to work for the government doing what he objected to in the past few episodes?

Really, the show is an amazing mish-mash of superhero cliches and really bad TV.

[DylonCorp]

What happened to President Worf?

Fantastic.

[inmostlight]

I decided to take them not using Claire's blood as a sign that they are ignoring some of the stupid things the shitty season 2 writers did, such as Claire's blood being able to bring anyone back to life.

Right, in Season 5 they'll just introduce a new hero whose power is to bring people back to life. Then quickly find some way to kill that person once they've brought original Nathan back. :)

[Lint of Death]

I'm too lazy to bracket all the quotes off, so I'll just put what I have to say in bold.

Let me start with this episode's bad writing. I won't even have to mention the fact that they ignored Claire's insta-heal blood because I agree that it's a good idea to retcon it away for the sake of drama.

How could Noah, Angela, and Parkman think that letting Sylar (even with Nathan's memories overriding his) be a Senator is a good idea?

Regarding this and the above, again I suspect Angela's up to yet another intricate and probably unwise plan, and that HRG went along with it because that's what he does. I think they were considering the possibility that Sylar is utterly unkillable, but still easy to manipulate. Especially, perhaps, when he thinks he's Nathan - no more parental dilemma if his mind's been wiped!

What happened to President Worf? Did he get kidnapped? Did Peter somehow convince him to stay indoors? How did "the President" get a drugged Sylar back up to the room? What's the fallout of this incident?

The folks with powers (incl. Peter and Claire) coerced the government fellers to let them handle getting Sylar, resulting in a supernatural version of a decoy bait-and-switch. We don't know the fallout of the incident, but we will next volume without a doubt.

Wouldn't it be easier to have Peter (with his newly gleaned morph powers) impersonate Nathan for a few weeks then resign due to "family issues"?

No, because at some point 'Nathan' would have to disappear. Even more "No," Peter is nothing like Nathan, and he is not an actor. It would be such an obvious ruse.

How did Danko's men know Mohinder was hiding out at the abandoned base? I know they mentioned that they got a lot of data from Rebel's stuff, but why would he know that Mohinder is sitting out in the middle of bumfuck?

You answered your own question. It was well established, even back in the first volume, Micah's incredible power over electronics. It was also clear that through this he was able to keep tabs on everyone he wanted to. Mohinder, being a former captive of building 26, was an obvious choice for Micah to monitor.

Oh and sorry, a Secret Service agent would not give you the chance to put your head up to his gun when he's ordering you to get on the floor, even if you are a pretty blonde teen.

LATE LATE EDIT: She is not just a pretty blond teen, she's the senator's daughter!

As to the general season:

What was Mohinder's purpose? Or Ando and Hiro's wild ride?

'Purpose' is not a highly appropriate attribute for a three-dimensional character, especially one who does so much in the season. He's on the run, tries to learn what's happening, deals with himself, helps his friends (Matt and Peter), and tries to learn more about his father.

Hiro and Ando went on multiple trips. First Hiro is captured; Ando and Daphne help save him; Hiro tries to pursue destiny and regain his powers; then they follow Rebel's request to save baby Matt Parkman, whom they travel across the country to bring to his dad; then they continue on to Building 26 because Hiro insists on vigilantism. All of this was quite clear in the show, I thought, likewise with Mohinder.

Why is Sylar a convenient plot device from episode to episode? In this episode, Sylar has daddy issues. In this episode, he has mommy issues. In this episode, he's a remorseless killer. In this one, not so much. I get that he's supposed to be insane and unpredictable, but there are credulous limits.

Sylar is not just insane and unpredictable - though of course he still had identity and parental issues. The whole point of his part of the volume is that he keeps himself focused by setting goals and pursuing them. The reason he behaves the way he does in the last episode is because it's a part of who he is, fundamentally. He power-trips like a motherfucker. By every volume's end, he finds some new way to gloat and terrorize with his vastly superior powers and/or wits. He's not just a plot device, he has motivations and a solidly developed character - with the added minor complication that he adopts personality quirks of the people he kills (which explains a lot of his use of the shapeshifting power).

Why are people, supposedly in positions of power and entirely aware of Sylar's lethality and shifting loyalties, continually written to offer him the opportunity to get stronger and screw shit up royally?

Because Danko is naïve and stubborn, and Angela and Arthur Petrelli are scheming bastards. It's really that simple.

Knowing what Anglea Petrelli went through at the relocation camp, how should a viewer reconcile that with her willingness to kill or kidnap whomever has powers?

Complete misunderstanding of her character. They explained this in the same episode, even. She would detain or kill anyone who had the strong potential to re-alert the world to people with abilities.

Knowing what Noah has gone through, why would he continue to work for the government doing what he objected to in the past few episodes?

He was trying to undermine it the entire time, as best as he could from the advantageous position of being inside the organization. Nathan does the same thing after the program doesn't work as intended.

Really, the show is an amazing mish-mash of superhero cliches and really bad TV.

I find it to be one of my favorite shows, with great characters, excellent actors, a good story, and fun action.

[Lint of Death]

Right, in Season 5 they'll just introduce a new hero whose power is to bring people back to life. Then quickly find some way to kill that person once they've brought original Nathan back. :)
Haha, I hope not. They already kept Linderman alive for almost the whole first season! I'm prefectly happy seeing more of the character and actor through flashbacks and wacky hallucinations :p

[muddi900]

excellent actors

That is just wrong.

[muddi900]

excellent actors

That is just wrong.

[Telefrog]

I'm too lazy to bracket all the quotes off, so I'll just put what I have to say in bold.

Yeah... I'll have to disagree with just about everything you said in an attempt to cover for the crappy writing. :p

Seriously though, the show is bad. I have fun watching it, but it's not because it's a terrific or compelling show. I watch it precisely because every episode is a comedy of errors.

[Lint of Death]

That is just wrong.

Linderman, Arthur Petrelli, Hiro, Ando, Matt Parkman, Sylar, Nathan Petrelli, Angela Petrelli, Noah Bennet, the Puppet Man to name a group... All played by actors doing an EXCELLENT job. You really don't think so? Just look a the new Nowhere Man miniseries that's started appearing online - the guy who plays the Puppet Man just blows me away how entertaining he is.

Yeah... I'll have to disagree with just about everything you said in an attempt to cover for the crappy writing. :p

Uh, disagree with most of what I said? Most of what I said was telling you what happened, really. We can disagree on whether we enjoy the series, but if you think it would have been smarter to have Peter pretend to be Nathan Petrelli to be honest I'm glad you're not writing for it :o


Seriously though, the show is bad. I have fun watching it, but it's not because it's a terrific or compelling show. I watch it precisely because every episode is a comedy of errors.
It's just about the only show besides the Daily Show and Colbert Report that I really follow, and I've enjoyed just about every episode. If you don't like it, that's fine, but it's not objectively bad.

[muddi900]

Linderman, Arthur Petrelli, Hiro, Ando, Matt Parkman, Sylar, Nathan Petrelli, Angela Petrelli, Noah Bennet, the Puppet Man to name a group... All played by actors doing an EXCELLENT job. You really don't think so? Just look a the new Nowhere Man miniseries that's started appearing online - the guy who plays the Puppet Man just blows me away how entertaining he is.


I'll give Malcolm Macdowell and that dude who plays HRG. But seriously, That guy who played Petrelli senior was just phoning it in, probably saw how laughably bad it was.


It's just about the only show besides the Daily Show and Colbert Report that I really follow, and I've enjoyed just about every episode. If you don't like it, that's fine, but it's not objectively bad.

That's your problem right there sir. You should watch a scripted tv show where the writers are not totally lazy. Something like Breaking Bad or The Shield. If you want something sci-fi, why not try Terminator. Heroes has been bad, with bad actors and bad writers, with slight moments of brilliance. Like "1963"

[Telefrog]

Uh, disagree with most of what I said? Most of what I said was telling you what happened, really. We can disagree on whether we enjoy the series, but if you think it would have been smarter to have Peter pretend to be Nathan Petrelli to be honest I'm glad you're not writing for it :o


Choice 1: Mindwipe Sylar and have him play out Nathan's life through his acquired memories. There's a number of issues with this.

1. Sylar has demonstrated time and again that he can, and will, overcome any attempt to hobble him and will instead return even more powerful. I don't care what anyone says, the fiction of making all characters disregard this trend and placing him in a position of governmental power is a sloppy writer's crutch. It's stupid and insulting.

2. Sylar has a range of powers that go well beyond Nathan's. Even if the new "Nathan" forgot all the other powers, he will eventually stumble onto them. That's not even mentioning that his lie detection power works unconciously and should've alerted him as soon as Mama Petrelli called him "son" or anyone else talked about the awesome way they dispatched "Sylar". Or, let's all wonder what happens when "Nathan" touches the chair his body sat in, and remembers getting killed by Sylar...

3. Nathan Petrelli revealed his power to a number of government people during the last episode. You know, the same folks that are all gung-ho about keeping people comatose because they're dangerous? I can't imagine that they're all okay with mutant Senator Petrelli calling the shots for the Company that is now tasked with rounding up muties.

4. Sylar has Nathan's memories. Fine. That does not make him a competent elected official (although I doubt Nathan was much of one either since he seemed to spend all his time out and about) and it certainly doesn't supress his nature. As we saw in the prologue to the next season, eventually this will manifest itself and come back to bite these people on the ass.

Choice 2: Have Peter impersonate Nathan. Issues with this plan are easily dealt with.

1. Eventually (in fact, sooner rather than later) Peter must revert back to himself and Nathan must "die" and disappear. Since Mama Petrelli and others have shown no aversion in the past to murdering folks and setting up others as patsys, this would seem to have a fairly simple solution.

2. Peter might slip and screw something up. As I mentioned earlier, Nathan didn't seem like a particularly dedicated government official. I'm sure "Nathan" could take an extended leave. Peter boning up may be the best thing ever for "Nathan's" career. Of course, that would result in the very real issue of him getting re-elected! :D

Sorry, Lint, I just cannot agree that the solution they presented in the show made any sense at all beyond being a convenient answer for the writers and a cool out for Quinto. As for the other stuff you commented on, almost everything you gave as an answer involved speculation and interpretation on your part. They're fine answers, if you believe the writers think that far ahead or that completely. From what I've seen, I doubt that.

[Lint of Death]

There are no more known characters that can restore memories. The only ones that could before were Linderman and Hiro's mother. On top of this, the character that gave Sylar the power of taking memories from touched objects is dead. Volume three established that Sylar's retention of stolen powers is dependent on his memory. However, Sylar can't even go back in time: Hiro not only does his best to avoid traveling to the past, but now use of his power threatens his own life so he's not likely to take Sylar back and show him who he was; Daphne with Ando was the only other real timetraveling ability so they can't do it either. On top of all this, the only ones who know of this plot are Angela, HRG, and Matt.

All of this taken into consideration should result in the probable impossibility of Sylar returning to who he used to be. I'm not saying there isn't potential for bad writing here; honestly, there's a ton of potential for it next volume. Rather, I am saying that Angela's plan is actually the most foolproof one she has had on the show - whether or not you think it was a good idea.

You see, it really isn't about the quality of her idea, whether the viewer thinks it's the best one or not. Angela's made some pretty monstrous decisions in the past. Good writing just means that it is entertaining while maintaining the consistency of the character. Keep in mind how she had HRG use the Haitian to constantly wipe his family's memories. This is certainly consistent with her character, and I, personally, was entertained.

__________________________________________________ _____________________________

As for using Nathan as a decoy, that has other problems than just Peter being so distinct from his brother that he wouldn't be convincing. There is also the fact that this would mean making Peter disappear. Peter, who not only held a job as a medic, but would have been last seen at the White House collaborating to save the President (that means this plot would be very easily discovered)! The only way it would work would be to convince the government to go along with it, but then you run into the problem Angela described which entails informing the government that a person with abilities killed the real senator, representing a failure to protect like that they had promised. It would be completely against her character to try that.

[Telefrog]

There are no more known characters that can restore memories. The only ones that could before were Linderman and Hiro's mother. On top of this, the character that gave Sylar the power of taking memories from touched objects is dead. Volume three established that Sylar's retention of stolen powers is dependent on his memory. However, Sylar can't even go back in time: Hiro not only does his best to avoid traveling to the past, but now use of his power threatens his own life so he's not likely to take Sylar back and show him who he was; Daphne with Ando was the only other real timetraveling ability so they can't do it either. On top of all this, the only ones who know of this plot are Angela, HRG, and Matt.

All of this taken into consideration should result in the probable impossibility of Sylar returning to who he used to be. I'm not saying there isn't potential for bad writing here; honestly, there's a ton of potential for it next volume. Rather, I am saying that Angela's plan is actually the most foolproof one she has had on the show - whether or not you think it was a good idea.

You see, it really isn't about the quality of her idea, whether the viewer thinks it's the best one or not. Angela's made some pretty monstrous decisions in the past. Good writing just means that it is entertaining while maintaining the consistency of the character. Keep in mind how she had HRG use the Haitian to constantly wipe his family's memories. This is certainly consistent with her character, and I, personally, was entertained.

__________________________________________________ _____________________________

As for using Nathan as a decoy, that has other problems than just Peter being so distinct from his brother that he wouldn't be convincing. There is also the fact that this would mean making Peter disappear. Peter, who not only held a job as a medic, but would have been last seen at the White House collaborating to save the President (that means this plot would be very easily discovered)! The only way it would work would be to convince the government to go along with it, but then you run into the problem Angela described which entails informing the government that a person with abilities killed the real senator, representing a failure to protect like that they had promised. It would be completely against her character to try that.

I'm going to stop debating this with you as you obviously like the show and have the justifications set in your mind. I'm not trying to convince you that the show has crappy writing. I believe it does, so that's really that for me.

I'll be watching next season for the laughs.

I will say that the cognitive dissonance you've got going with regard to Heroes is pretty awesome. I don't think Peter has done his job in a long time. I think they've established quite handily that nothing is out of character for Angela Petrelli.

[Veregon]

I think you guys are missing the point that came across the strongest for me. Due to her guilt over what happened to her sister, Angela Petrelli will do anything to protect her idea of a family. It's her rationale for every single decision she's made since Coyote Springs. That's why she wanted Sylar to be brainwashed into thinking he's Nathan, so she can have her family back, not so they can cover up what happened. Don't forget she already posed as Sylar's mother before.

As much as I kinda feel that Sylar taking Nathan's place was a cop-out for the writers I can also totally see Angela making that decision and really liked how the scene was written for her. HRG feels the same way about Claire (In his mind, everything he's done was to protect her.) and Parkman was just introduced to the idea of having a family again. Since it's TV the decision had to be made instantly and it felt rushed but the groundwork is there for the characters to actually come to that decision.

[Lint of Death]

Right on about Angela. I think the writing masterstroke of that is that not only is her newest scheme entirely in character, but keeps with one of the biggest unspoken themes of Volume 4 and perhaps all the past ones: the possible future presented in volume one, or at least a semblance of it, is trying to assert itself. It's a constant struggle to avoid it, and this choice seems to be Angela's decision to work with it to achieve her own ends. She might be hoping to make a sort of 'deal' with fate - it can have its dead Nathan and Sylar replacing him, even have Sylar ascend to the Presidency as foreseen; but Angela wants to make sure this happens on her terms.

In other news, the new webisodes of "Nowhere Man" are really good.

[PathMaster]

Finally got a chance to watch the season finale. This of course after I hear that Heroes may only be back in a limited run next season.

It was a fair finale. I really wished they at least showed some of the battle in the room, but alas we rarely get good f/x in this show. Not really going to comment on the above stuff, other then to say, I enjoyed it and that is enough for me.

On the next season opener? How exactly the intro was about "Redemption" is beyond me. Larter is back, so maybe vengeance.

I am almost hoping for a series reboot with the way the finale ended. Besides the pyre scene with Ma Petrelli and Nathan across from each other and Peter in the middle, the way they presented their plan for the New Company, easily lends itself to a reboot. Jump ahead in time a decade, have some of the current crop remain and act as custodians of the company or higher ups with occasional appearances. Best of all new people, new powers, new story.

I know..high hopes.

[Lint of Death]

BrassGecko introduced me to this and I just thought all of you need to watch it.

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[n3rdXcore]

BrassGecko introduced me to this and I just thought all of you need to watch it.

Matt Parkman's faces are the best!

[PathMaster]

Classic. (2short)

[RandoM51]

BrassGecko introduced me to this and I just thought all of you need to watch it.


That almost makes Heroes worth watching. Almost. After the last episode---which I just got around to watching---I was praying that Hiro would go back in time and tell me not to watch this crap.

Is that song real and who is it? That bit at the ends sounds a bit like an Eminem song.

[Crittias]

Is that song real and who is it? That bit at the ends sounds a bit like an Eminem song.The song is from a Saturday Night Live Digital Short.

[Lint of Death]

Is that song real and who is it? That bit at the ends sounds a bit like an Eminem song.

Just search YouTube for the song title to find the original music video, which will actually help with appreciating the brilliance of the editing done for this Heroes one.

P.S. Did you watch the "Nowhere Man" short webseries on the show's official site? It focuses on the Puppet Man and is worth watching!

[Rogue_hunter]

I met Jeph Leob this past weekend at a comic signing. Naturally there was Heroes talk, and he just said, "yeah, it was fun on that show, but there's Day One next year. That's the new show we're doing."

And while talking to other people in the shop, NBC pulled the Heroes panel at Comic Con. All signs point to the show being canceled after finishing out the half season it's getting.

[Lint of Death]

I met Jeph Leob this past weekend at a comic signing. Naturally there was Heroes talk, and he just said, "yeah, it was fun on that show, but there's Day One next year. That's the new show we're doing."

And while talking to other people in the shop, NBC pulled the Heroes panel at Comic Con. All signs point to the show being canceled after finishing out the half season it's getting.

Loeb was booted from Heroes a while back, are you sure his comments refer to the doom of the show itself?

[Rogue_hunter]

Loeb was booted from Heroes a while back, are you sure his comments refer to the doom of the show itself?

He only talked about "Day One", other people in the shop told me about the cancellation of the Heroes panel at Comic Con. And with how the ratings have been slipping since the first season, NBC focusing on cutting costs, and the loss of 5 the 10 pm timeslot for weekdays, many signs are pointing to Heroes getting canned.

[Lint of Death]

He only talked about "Day One", other people in the shop told me about the cancellation of the Heroes panel at Comic Con. And with how the ratings have been slipping since the first season, NBC focusing on cutting costs, and the loss of 5 the 10 pm timeslot for weekdays, many signs are pointing to Heroes getting canned.

Bummer. And I was so impressed with Nathan's death in the last episode :(

[Zero]

And Bryan Fuller has once again left the show. (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/41490)

Dammit.

[Mike Kelehan]

Bummer. And I was so impressed with Nathan's death in the last episode :(

...which was only to facilitate Sylar being back again. I'm so tired of them trying to impress me by saying, "Sylar's back!"

[Lint of Death]

And Bryan Fuller has once again left the show. (http://www.aintitcool.com/node/41490)

Dammit.
Oh, come on!! :mad:
The Star Trek bit sounds good, though, if it ever happens.
...which was only to facilitate Sylar being back again. I'm so tired of them trying to impress me by saying, "Sylar's back!"
As I might have said before, I'm hoping really hard that they keep him living Nathan's life despite it.

edit: oh, who cares, Fuller's gone again, show's probably doomed, blaaaaaargh....

[Mike Kelehan]

As I might have said before, I'm hoping really hard that they keep him living Nathan's life despite it.
Nope. Heroes never passes up an opportunity for Sylar to be back. They'll use it as at least two cliffhangers next season.

[Lint of Death]

Nope. Heroes never passes up an opportunity for Sylar to be back. They'll use it as at least two cliffhangers next season.

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