General GFWL Question

[Narradisall]

So....

Pre my PC crapping out I used Steam for what little of my digital gaming I did and it was a fairly competant system. Now I never actually got round to replacing my PC proper yet (trust me, the one I'm typing on doesnt count as a gaming rig), but in vague hope I could get DOWII to run in giant pixel low resolution wonder I thought I'd give it a try.

Being that I can't remember my steam ID and I haven't actually tried GFWL I thought I'd give it a go.

So now I have an honest opinion question for you all.

Is it really this shit?

I can't even load up the DOWII page to download the demo, there seems to be a very tiny amount of content on it and the general bitching I've heard from some of you leads me to believe the matchmaking system would be less enjoyable than me spreading honey over my balls and dipping them into a hive of angry hornets.

Should I just abandon hope, uninstall, find my Steam account and never look back, or am I just missing really obvious things here? I'm by no means a masterful IT expert but I would like to think I have a shred of intelligence to be able to find a fucking download...

[biosc1]

Have you downloaded the GFWL windows client software?

Seems to be available on the marketplace. Maybe it's not available in the UK?

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2414/clipboard26qd2.jpg

[Ravenlock]

In short, yes, it really is shit.

In long: the only things I can tell that GFWL is even capable of doing, as a standalone client, are (1) show you ads, and (2) let you buy MS points. And then maybe buy stuff with those points, if there are things to buy. I didn't look. You can't send messages to or voicechat with your friends, you can't join their games in progress, you can't check for patches or downloads for your games, you can't do basically anything the XBox Live Dashboard lets you do at all. It's a marketing platform, nothing else.

Once it's actually wrapped around a game (as it is for GTA4 and Fallout 3, on my PC), it will let you do those things in-game, but with an interface woefully inferior to Steam's unless you're using a controller as your sole input device. There are parts of it that don't even seem to function with the mouse cursor, and you have to use, for instance, the Backspace key on your keyboard to back out of a menu (because Escape will close the whole thing).

It will also do autopatching, which is nice, but only when you start up the game, not in the background as a client like Steam does. And of course at that point, the patch isn't optional if you actually want to play (your single-player savegames are tied to your GFWLive account, and you can't sign in if you don't patch), so you get an unexpected, required delay rather than to play the game you just started. And it says things like "Do not interrupt this process - when finished, GFWLive may reboot your computer." Which implies that the people who developed it - Microsoft for fuck's sake - have apparently never used a computer. It's a multitasking machine, MS! You can ASK to reboot my computer, but you don't TELL me you might do so after I've already started a full-screen process that you're telling me I can't cancel.

So yeah, I haven't tried anything Dawn of War II related yet, but in general I think GFW Live was designed by a bunch of idiots who apparently never even looked at the interface and operations of the current leader of PC digital distribution. It's a poor man's XBox Live at best, and inferior to just managing patches and friend lists on my own at worst.

EDIT: Apparently, as per the post above, you can also download demos through the Marketplace with it.

[Rogue_hunter]

It will also do autopatching, which is nice, but only when you start up the game, not in the background as a client like Steam does. And of course at that point, the patch isn't optional if you actually want to play (your single-player savegames are tied to your GFWLive account, and you can't sign in if you don't patch), so you get an unexpected, required delay rather than to play the game you just started. And it says things like "Do not interrupt this process - when finished, GFWLive may reboot your computer." Which implies that the people who developed it - Microsoft for fuck's sake - have apparently never used a computer. It's a multitasking machine, MS! You can ASK to reboot my computer, but you don't TELL me you might do so after I've already started a full-screen process that you're telling me I can't cancel.

Though, Steam needs you to restart Steam whenever there is a new game update. I keep my client open for days at a time, but when I want to actually play a game that has had a recent update, it has to download the update and install it before I can actually play the game. Sort of annoying, especially dependent on the size of the update.

But yes, anytime there is a GFWL update, you HAVE to reboot. Seems stupid considering it's just a client.

[Narradisall]

Thanks for the info guys.

I did get the marketplace client (the demo is not listed though), it just seemed even opening the DOWII page got nothing. I could open some others.

I think I am leaning more towards Steam atm, I never had any real problems with it. GFWL still seems to be in its infancy but it was worth giving a try.

[Codicier]

Though, Steam needs you to restart Steam whenever there is a new game update. I keep my client open for days at a time, but when I want to actually play a game that has had a recent update, it has to download the update and install it before I can actually play the game. Sort of annoying, especially dependent on the size of the update.

But yes, anytime there is a GFWL update, you HAVE to reboot. Seems stupid considering it's just a client.

Just want to make the distinction: You need to reboot Steam when there is a Steam client update. When there are updates to games you own, you don't need to restart. You do need to wait for the download, but you could tell it not to auto update. Of course, that doesn't make much sense for multiplayer games since you need to be up to date to connect with the master server typically. But GFWL requires a reboot of the entire machine every time? What the fuck?

Regarding GFWL, and in particular what Ravenlock said about savegames. I know that for Fallout 3, they are tied to GFWL, but I don't think that's necessarily the case for all games that may use the service. I could be wrong though.

As a whole, Raven is right, it's a poor man's XBL, and is shit compared to Steam. I haven't had any problems with it yet, but I also haven't done much with it other than play a bit in the DoW II beta. For me it's been serviceable, but I know that when I was playing with Clanner it was refusing to recognize any of his mics, so we ended up using the Steam overlay for voice. And then of course there's all the other testimonials as to its crappiness in the DoW II Beta thread. I would recommend finding your Steam account.

[Veregon]

I think I am leaning more towards Steam atm, I never had any real problems with it. GFWL still seems to be in its infancy but it was worth giving a try.You do realize that even if you download DOW2 from Steam once you launch the game you will still be using GFWL for all of the multiplayer connectivity?

[Narradisall]

You do realize that even if you download DOW2 from Steam once you launch the game you will still be using GFWL for all of the multiplayer connectivity?

Firstly, no and FUCK.

Secondly, I'll likely play it offline for a bit, although the online is a blast I don't think this PC could handle it much.

[Rogue_hunter]

Just want to make the distinction: You need to reboot Steam when there is a Steam client update. When there are updates to games you own, you don't need to restart. You do need to wait for the download, but you could tell it not to auto update. Of course, that doesn't make much sense for multiplayer games since you need to be up to date to connect with the master server typically. But GFWL requires a reboot of the entire machine every time? What the fuck?

That never happens with TF2 and Left 4 Dead updates. The updates never seem to automatically download, even though it's supposed to. Especially annoying when I've left Steam open all day, and I come home expecting to immediately start up TF2, but it would have to download whatever update came out that day (Thursdays at 5 PM PST are notorious for updates)

[Food Nipple]

It's not as good as Steam, but it's not going to kill your firstborn either. I use a five button mouse and didn't have any problems with the navigation. My biggest fault with it is that it shares the same friend cap across both my 360 and pc.

And it says things like "Do not interrupt this process - when finished, GFWLive may reboot your computer." Which implies that the people who developed it - Microsoft for fuck's sake - have apparently never used a computer. It's a multitasking machine, MS! You can ASK to reboot my computer, but you don't TELL me you might do so after I've already started a full-screen process that you're telling me I can't cancel.

So does it actually require a restart, or is it just a meaningless disclaimer? I haven't used GFWL for very long, so I googled this and only found that complaint in this thread.

[Seika]

I just spend 3 hours trying to figure out how to log in into live from a game. :mad:

Turns out since my motherboard has multiple ethernet ports, I had to set the one I'm using for my router as my "default" one in windows. Also, I had to completely turn off my software firewall!

WTF Microsoft!
On top of it all I had to reboot.

I finally get on there, and there's so little content. Great, I wasted 3 hours. :mad:

[Ravenlock]

So does it actually require a restart, or is it just a meaningless disclaimer? I haven't used GFWL for very long, so I googled this and only found that complaint in this thread.

So far I have not had it reboot my machine after patching, but the disclaimer itself is completely unacceptable. You never tell a PC user that a forced reboot may occur AFTER they start the process that will result in the reboot.

You especially don't do it in a full-screen app where they can't easily go close out of anything else they might have open.

It's just something very simple that never should have made it through QA, and to see Microsoft doing it is just baffling.