Deus Ex 3 Revealed; Fans May Not Be Happy [Archive]

DoctorFinger

10-04-2008, 10:18 AM

CVG has the scoop on Deus Ex 3, the latest iteration in a line of acclaimed FPS/RPG hybrids. This news will make some fans very happy. Others will be seeing red over parts of this story.

Lets start off with the positive. The game is a prequel to the original Deus Ex, set in the year 2027 and seems to be trying to inject a little steampunk into the series' cyberpunk roots. The augmentations are back, and sound better than ever, including a bungee cord that shoots out of your back when you leap out of a window. The developer, Eidos Montreal, promises to learn from the mistakes made on Deus Ex 2: Invisible War.

Then there's the money quote. The one that will invariably cause some fans of the series to grab their torches and pitchforks. Perhaps controversially this time around combat won't be influenced by stats, but will rely purely on your personal marksmanship skills. Instead stats will influence "a vast array of fully upgradeable and customisable weapons", and you'll be able to tailor your arsenal to your play style with mag upgrades, scopes and other add-ons.

What's more, stealth will now rely on a cover system rather than shadows, and damage will be dealt with by a very Call of Duty-style auto-heal. There's probably going to be some debate over those two. For those of you that never played the original Deus Ex (and if so, for shame!) this is something akin to heresy. The game played a lot like an FPS, but your chances of hitting the target were influenced as much by your stats as your mouse skills. Taking that element out may make it more popular, but it will also alienate many of the die-hard fans of the original.

Source - CVG (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=198546).

GunnyMo

10-04-2008, 10:20 AM

Meh, sounds good to me. I loved the weapons and the ammo customization in DX1. If they can bring back the crossbow and give me an achievement for playing the game without killing anyone, I will be very happy. :)

I'm not thrilled about the sans stats but I'm not too upset.

axion

10-04-2008, 10:21 AM

Also, pics (http://www.flickr.com/photos/seniath).
Still going to have to wait and see, sounds more generic than the original.

maharahaj

10-04-2008, 10:23 AM

Oh my. While I kind of liked the first quoted paragraph, that second one bothers me A GREAT DEAL. Hiding in the shadows directly next to un-suspecting enemies was an awesome gameplay element in the original game and gave alot of strategic opportunities.

And for the record, I liked Deus Ex 2 (though not nearly as much as 1 which still is my favorite game of all time).

Crowe

10-04-2008, 10:24 AM

For once, I'm not worried about a change too one of my favorite franchises. I like being able to rely on my skills with a mouse, it will take away a part of what Deus Ex was, but I don't personally don't see it as a game breaker. There will no doubt be some fans crying foul but I won't be one of them.

To be honest I just hope they have a kick arse story to go along with any Kick arse aug's and gun play. I also hope the game is longer than 8 hours.

*EDIT*

Ok the second paragraph hurts me a little, still not a game breaker but it weighs a little heavy on my heart. I LOVED hiding in the shadows, and who knows how cover is going to go down. Well looks like it will be wait and see like usual.

IIntrude

10-04-2008, 10:32 AM

The stealth bit makes me worried. I always enjoyed sneaking from shadow to shadow all ninja like. Now it sounds like "ohh you can't see me, I am behind this box. hahaha" Just doesn't sound very Deus Ex to me :(

Wackman3000

10-04-2008, 10:33 AM

Deux Ex was definitely before I fell to the Magic side of PC's and I haven't played a single game in the series. That said, I can tell you that the original sounds much more exciting than the generic autoheal cover shooter that we are getting all to familiar with.

JediSanf

10-04-2008, 10:34 AM

Why did they fuck with a system that really worked great? Who cares that they piss off the 12yo that can't perfectly snipe from level 1?

Crowe

10-04-2008, 10:44 AM

Can't perfectly snipe from level 1?

I totally forgot about that. They will have to take a different approach if they want to mimic the original Dues Ex progression. Giving you shitty guns that have limited range and damage capabilities, things like that. I hope that I'm not able to kill enemies from 200 yards away with a pistol shot to the head in the first lvl of the game.

Maybe this would suggest that the game taken a more in your face action orientated approach, we will find out soon enough.

jeffbax

10-04-2008, 10:49 AM

What the shit, what is so hard about following the DX 1 model!

Jackel

10-04-2008, 10:49 AM

While I'm disappointed to hear that they're changing up the system from the original, I hope that they can make up for it by providing some originality in the weapon upgrades.

MinorHero

10-04-2008, 10:53 AM

My main concern is whether they console this game up so much that its only connection to Deus Ex has to be told in cut-scenes. Deus Ex 2 suffered from cosolitis almost more then any other game.

Vyzov

10-04-2008, 11:07 AM

Hmm, this announcement means I should really get around to finishing Deus Ex.

SPBTooL

10-04-2008, 11:08 AM

Why did they fuck with a system that really worked great? Who cares that they piss off the 12yo that can't perfectly snipe from level 1? But if the system is so great, why has it not been used much since? If at all. I liked the system and am surprized it has not realy been used much.My main concern is whether they console this game up so much that its only connection to Deus Ex has to be told in cut-scenes. Deus Ex 2 suffered from cosolitis almost more then any other game. The thing is, the old system would have been more friendly to consoles.

Ghost Rider

10-04-2008, 11:10 AM

I loved Deus Ex 1 enough to make me want to give this a chance. Is it only on PC?

Morangie

10-04-2008, 11:10 AM

Bioshock dumbed down massively from System Shock 2 and was still fantastic but after Deus Ex 2, I won't be holding my breath these guys can do the same thing. I'll file this under cash in until they prove otherwise.

CES

10-04-2008, 11:12 AM

A cover system? Seriously? What's the obsession with cover systems anyway? Seems like you cant get a shooter without one now. As for auto heals, well, ZP said it better than me.

The saddest part is they could just remake DX1 and it'd still sell tons even today.

Vandabo

10-04-2008, 11:35 AM

DX1 is one of my top 5 games, but I thought the shooting inaccuracy at the beginning of the game was pretty ludicrous. I think they definitely should make it get progressively better as you upgrade your skill, but it was way too loose at the beginning in DX1.

The things that made DX1 for me were the story and the ability to go stealthy or aggro. I played it both ways and it was a completely different experience each time. Very few games give you that kind of freedom, especially in the FPS genre.

The hide for more health system though, that pisses me off. I'm getting so goddamn tired of that mechanic.

Bingley Joe

10-04-2008, 11:38 AM

Auto-healing, I can live with, given that you're wandering around chock-full-o-nanites (there was even an aug for it in the first game), and the skill change probably won't bother me a huge amount either as long as it's balanced well..

But I really don't understand why the cover system and shadows-based-stealth can't happily co-exist. I mean.. getting into cover during a shootout is a smart thing to do, so it genuinely has a place in a game with shooting mechanics. But sneaking around in the shadows in the first game was so much damn fun. Can't we just have both?

Disgustipated

10-04-2008, 11:44 AM

The auto-healing/cover system aren't really that big of a downer, but a prequel? Not sure if that'd work as well as a sequel.

MinorHero

10-04-2008, 11:48 AM

But if the system is so great, why has it not been used much since? If at all. I liked the system and am surprized it has not realy been used much. The thing is, the old system would have been more friendly to consoles.

DX1 would never have worked for consoles of the day for a couple of reasons. First, no console of its time had enough ram to fit a modernized DX1 level in it. So you ended up with little tiny levels because thats all any console could fit. The XBOX had 64 megs of ram and it was the big one!

2nd, trying to make DX1 style inventory management work without a mouse would just be plain silly. So you ended up with shitty unified ammo. Not to mention that arc shaped inventory.

3rd, With less complex levels because of RAM limitations came less complex pathways to objectives. No longer were there 10 different ways into a building, instead there tended to be 2, the front door or the inevitable side vent.

Theres more including ones that are just the fuckup of Eidos programming (pistol shot to the head anyone?). But I'm not going to bother going into them here. The point is that making RP-FPS games for consoles rather then for PCs results in an inferior product.

pheriannath

10-04-2008, 11:50 AM

I've always loved prequels where the technology looks more advanced than what came later.

Hellbug

10-04-2008, 12:01 PM

This is good news. The shadow and stats does not really matter to me, but that may be because I never took the time to finish the first Deus Ex 1.

Lekon

10-04-2008, 12:35 PM

A prequel? ugh. Can't they just do a side story? Prequel would mean they wouldn't have all the neat toys and effects of the other games. Losing the RPG elements seems like a bad idea as well.

Crud. Well, at least we'll have Fallout 3 and Outland.

SPBTooL

10-04-2008, 12:38 PM

DX1 would never have worked for consoles of the day for a couple of reasons. First, no console of its time had enough ram to fit a modernized DX1 level in it. So you ended up with little tiny levels because thats all any console could fit. The XBOX had 64 megs of ram and it was the big one!

2nd, trying to make DX1 style inventory management work without a mouse would just be plain silly. So you ended up with shitty unified ammo. Not to mention that arc shaped inventory.

3rd, With less complex levels because of RAM limitations came less complex pathways to objectives. No longer were there 10 different ways into a building, instead there tended to be 2, the front door or the inevitable side vent.

Theres more including ones that are just the fuckup of Eidos programming (pistol shot to the head anyone?). But I'm not going to bother going into them here. The point is that making RP-FPS games for consoles rather then for PCs results in an inferior product.First, we are talking about current consoles.

There are many ways to deal with inventory.

With modern programing and hardware levels can be streamed on the fly to give us complex nearly unlimited sized levels.

There is a good chance that the game play will be simpler than it would have been if it was PC only. But it is due to the way people expect their experiences to be on the different devices. not because of a the difference in hardware other than maybe the input.

You sound like a PC elitist from 5 years ago.:p

The system used in DX1 where your skills determined your ability to hit would be an easier system for console user that are not as far as toward the hardcore side as most on this site. That was my point.

shodan2020

10-04-2008, 12:44 PM

Why couldn't they make stealth a combo of both? I lost interest in Deus Ex after the horrible reviews of 2... which I still need to bargain bin.

J Arcane

10-04-2008, 12:51 PM

The game is a prequel to the original Deus Ex, set in the year 2027 and seems to be trying to inject a little steampunk into the series' cyberpunk roots.

Fucking hell am I sick to death of fucking steampunk.

Really, I think DX1 is just about one of the most overrated games I've ever played in my life, but do we really need more of this trendy "steempunk makes everything better!" bullshit?

SPBTooL

10-04-2008, 01:09 PM

Fucking hell am I sick to death of fucking steampunk.

Really, I think DX1 is just about one of the most overrated games I've ever played in my life, but do we really need more of this trendy "steempunk makes everything better!" bullshit?Have we gotten a steampunk WWII FPS yet?

SilentScreams

10-04-2008, 01:17 PM

So I must be the only person who really couldn't get into Deus Ex, but liked Deus Ex 2?

J Arcane

10-04-2008, 01:18 PM

So I must be the only person who really couldn't get into Deus Ex, but liked Deus Ex 2?
I couldn't stand DX1, and never got terribly into DX2 because it just felt dull to me.

blair

10-04-2008, 01:21 PM

Wolvie

10-04-2008, 01:37 PM

Man the Halo/CoD auto-heal system is really getting popular. Ya gotta wonder, is the system getting too popular? And if so is it gonna hurt the genre by turning away the hardcore folks?
It'd be cool if you could turn auto-heal off so the hardcore can get a bigger challenge. Or have it turned off on the higher difficulty settings.

Xerxes

10-04-2008, 02:31 PM

Who's making it? I liked the look of the screens.

VerseD

10-04-2008, 02:39 PM

Who's making it? I liked the look of the screens.

Eidos Montreal, with none of the Ion Storm staff behind the original two games (Source (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3164708)). Personally I'm glad that Warren Spector will have nothing to do with it.

Rorschach

10-04-2008, 03:03 PM

*sigh* learned from the past, they have not. Invisable war was bad because of dumbing down the stats and upgrade system, as well as the story. Deus Ex was great because there were so many options, very likely you could have 10 people all end the game with different Augmentations and mods... in Invisable War they all pretty much leveled up full by the end of the game.. not to mention how poor the story was, and this was WITH mr. Specter helming the project....

Time will tell, but I have about as much faith in this being good as I do the watchmen movie.

digitalErich

10-04-2008, 03:19 PM

I'll still try it, but Warren Spectre and his design is what made Deus Ex, not the IP, which is something these guys don't seem to get.

divinechaos

10-04-2008, 04:12 PM

I'm all for the new aiming system. I couldn't stand Morrowind and DE2 because I never hit anything in the beggining of the games.

bean

10-04-2008, 04:16 PM

Why would a company with an IP known for one feature that sets it apart from other FPS decide to scrap that feature?

Maybe this was a "suit" decision made by people who don't understand the game's appeal? I don't think any game designer worth his salt would suggest the elimination of a standout feature.

Goronmon

10-04-2008, 04:19 PM

Ya gotta wonder, is the system getting too popular? And if so is it gonna hurt the genre by turning away the hardcore folks?Well, it has become popular because the "magical kits of healing" were around for so long that I think people just got tired of having to deal with them.

I do wish that the health system was made more complex. Like instead of always healing back to full health, some games had various "tiers" of health where you needed special intervention to heal back to full after taking a bad hit or something.

WhyThree

10-04-2008, 05:16 PM

I do wish that the health system was made more complex. Like instead of always healing back to full health, some games had various "tiers" of health where you needed special intervention to heal back to full after taking a bad hit or something.

I think Far Cry 2 is doing this. If you drop below 3/5 health or so you have to do one of those dig-the-bullet-out-of-your-arm things to get back up to 3/5 and then you can morphine to the top. That's what I remember from the recent previews anyways.

As far as DE3 (DX3 makes more sense as an acronym), I like the sound of some of those abilities. The bungee jumping sounds cool, although I don't know how often it would be useful. The whole game is starting to sound an awful lot like Bioshock, which might not be a bad thing.

KingGorilla

10-04-2008, 05:32 PM

Warren Specter and I will be making bombs, those who wish to join can, the rest should get out of our way.

Morangie

10-04-2008, 05:44 PM

Warren Specter and I will be making bombs, those who wish to join can, the rest should get out of our way.

the dev has even drafted in the consultative talents of original writer Sheldon Pacotti, while also gaining the blessing of both Harvey Smith and Warren Spector on the project.

I think Warren is setting you up. Check he isn't wearing a wire.

Telefrog

10-04-2008, 07:46 PM

This sounds absolutely medicore as a game. I'm sure those features would be a terrific in a decent shooter, but it sounds like a horrible Deus Ex.

mister slim

10-04-2008, 08:30 PM

Sounds kinda Project Snowblindy.

CES

10-04-2008, 09:01 PM

Well, it has become popular because the "magical kits of healing" were around for so long that I think people just got tired of having to deal with them.

I do wish that the health system was made more complex. Like instead of always healing back to full health, some games had various "tiers" of health where you needed special intervention to heal back to full after taking a bad hit or something.

Condemned 2 and Butcher Bay did that. You had a segmented bar, so long as you had even the slightest bit of health in one segment, it'd refill to max, If you lost it all from that segment, it would remain empty till you found a med station.

inmostlight

10-04-2008, 09:45 PM

I totally forgot about that. They will have to take a different approach if they want to mimic the original Dues Ex progression. Giving you shitty guns that have limited range and damage capabilities, things like that. I hope that I'm not able to kill enemies from 200 yards away with a pistol shot to the head in the first lvl of the game.

See, that was one of the things I thought was kind of silly in the original Deus Ex. I'm supposed to be an elite agent bad-ass, sent in solo on missions but I'm not yet an expert in using weapons? That doesn't really make any sense if you think about it.

That said, I do obviously like progression in games. Increasing your abilities granted from nanites makes much more sense than innate skills that the player's character should have already spent years honing before the story starts.

In the case of Deus Ex 3, I'm going to remain cautious about getting hyped up, but I sure want it to be good.

PathMaster

10-04-2008, 09:47 PM

Please don't be crappy.

Libuke

10-04-2008, 10:02 PM

I'm another person who doesn't really the rebounding health situation, but in a lot of games (such as the CoD WWII games) things like health packs just do not make sense so you have to have some way of regaining health.

In the Dues Ex world it would make sense to have nanite canisters that you inject in your body to heal yourself. Bioshock worked with out rebounding health, though I think the game was still not as good as it could of been. I got bored of the same enemies by about the time you meet Ryan and the last part of the game really dragged for me.

itchyeyes

10-04-2008, 10:36 PM

J Arcane

10-04-2008, 11:18 PM

See, that was one of the things I thought was kind of silly in the original Deus Ex. I'm supposed to be an elite agent bad-ass, sent in solo on missions but I'm not yet an expert in using weapons? That doesn't really make any sense if you think about it.

It's not just that you weren't an expert. It's that you weren't any fucking good at all. At the start of the game, JC Denton, supposedly some badass superclone agent, shoots worse than I do in real life.

It was ridiculous, and the resulting painfully slow gaming that came from spending 20 goddamn minutes to aim a single fucking shot was just bullshit.

I for one applaud them for dumping such a bullshit mechanic.

Maskatron

10-05-2008, 01:34 AM

I will play this as long as the consensus says it doesn't suck, however, I wish they would have stuck with more of the gameplay elements that worked from the first game. *sigh*

I do like the art direction. It seems like they are putting a lot of effort into this, which is a good sign.

Xerxes

10-05-2008, 01:40 AM

I'm thinking it's going to end up Bioshockish.

Karak

10-05-2008, 01:50 AM

I realize a lot of people have a connection to the original Deus Ex and don't want to see it's memory ruined any more than it already has been. Honestly though, I think that there's enough potential in the Deus Ex setting to make a great game even if it doesn't stick to the original formula. And while it might seem like an affront to many to have a very different type of game piggy backing on the Deus Ex name, I'll be happy just as long as it's good.

As will I. If the choice is NO game, or a game in the same universe with people behind it who are trying and it turns out to be fun.
Uhm...well I guess it would be the latter:)

Xerxes

10-05-2008, 01:58 AM

I realize a lot of people have a connection to the original Deus Ex and don't want to see it's memory ruined any more than it already has been. Honestly though, I think that there's enough potential in the Deus Ex setting to make a great game even if it doesn't stick to the original formula. And while it might seem like an affront to many to have a very different type of game piggy backing on the Deus Ex name, I'll be happy just as long as it's good.

People get stuck to the original it's hard to change. Take Def Jam Icon. If a new Def Jam game is announced and EA has another boxing team make the game, people will groan. Hell, people won't be satisfied until AKI is back on it. In the case of Deus Ex, they won't be happy until it's a PC only game that gets ported down. :rolleyes:

bean

10-05-2008, 08:12 AM

I realize a lot of people have a connection to the original Deus Ex and don't want to see it's memory ruined any more than it already has been.

It isn't nostalgia on my part, though this may be the case for some.

Most FPS games are very similar to one another and only a few have something that makes them stand apart. Deus Ex had that something, but they are choosing to scrap it. Do you not find it odd that a developer would choose to scrap their IP's standout feature?

bean

10-05-2008, 08:13 AM

People get stuck to the original it's hard to change. Take Def Jam Icon. If a new Def Jam game is announced and EA has another boxing team make the game, people will groan. Hell, people won't be satisfied until AKI is back on it. In the case of Deus Ex, they won't be happy until it's a PC only game that gets ported down. :rolleyes:

I don't think this is always the case. For instance, I loved Obsidian's KOTOR II. It doesn't bug me at all that a different developer is working on Deus Ex 3. The fact that they are dropping the game's standout feature is what I find perplexing. . . why work to make your game more like every other FPS out there?

maharahaj

10-05-2008, 10:30 AM

Sounds kinda Project Snowblindy.

That is an excellent point. I loved Snowblind for what it was; a straight up shooter set in a Deus Ex style universe. But I do not what it to be merged with the old DX1 mechanics to create a hybrid type game.

LiquidRain

10-05-2008, 04:35 PM

Really, how many of you expected this to be what DX1 was? Honestly, now.

If it plays well as its own game I'll be happy with it.

Take a chill pill, sheesh.

SilentScreams

10-05-2008, 05:41 PM

Really, how many of you expected this to be what DX1 was? Honestly, now.

If it plays well as its own game I'll be happy with it.

Take a chill pill, sheesh.

This.
It's probably the same people who decided Fallout 3 was going to suck purely because it's not exactly the same as 1 & 2.

bean

10-05-2008, 06:24 PM

This.
It's probably the same people who decided Fallout 3 was going to suck purely because it's not exactly the same as 1 & 2.

This is a lot different.

There are a million FPS out there that are only different in setting, story, and sometimes in weaponry (most have the same weapons or weapons with different names that behave the same way as others). Deus Ex did something different by making a FPS/RPG with various methods to meet objectives. That is cool and different but Deus Ex 3 doesn't have this standout feature. . . they are making it into just another FPS.

Fallout has always been an RPG about great quests that allow you to impact the world in meaningful ways. Fallout 3 is a post-apocalyptic RPG with great quests that allow you to impact the world in meaningful ways. Maybe someone out there actually was in love with the battle system, but they kept the cool part that allows you to aim at body parts and blow them to bits, so I think their cries of doom are all horsefeathers.

Plus, who is freaking out? I see some people saying that they think this isn't a proper successor to the series, and I am wondering what prompted the developers to drop the game's standout feature. . . but I haven't read anyone acting like Deus Ex was the best game ever and they've played it every Saturday since their gaming group got married, moved away, or were too young (because their Mom thinks it is inappropriate for a 40 year old to play games with social inept teenage boys down in her basement.) Whereas, if this were about Fallout 3 suddenly taking out dialog trees and making the quests as inconsequential as those in Oblivion, well. . .

Young Al Capone

10-07-2008, 10:21 AM

I am just going to say what I said over at PiRi. Sounds like more of a straight FPS than a hybrid, but I still like the sounds of it. The augs seem to be like Plasmids or the Darkness Powers. Deus Ex is my favorite game, and I am dying for a new good cyberpunk game, but still cautious enthusiasm is all I can muster for this one.

I'm glad they clarified that there will be XP and that you can use it on your character (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=198546). The screenshot also looks good, but I am not sure that it isn't concept art. The renaissance and cyberpunk theme sounds very intriguing.