Fallout: Should I keep going?

[Admiral Ackbar]

For my first post here at COG, I wanted to talk about something that is killing me.

I bought Fallout 1 and 2 from GOG.com in an effort to play through them before 3 comes out. I assumed the story would be pertinent and I had heard that these games were some of the best of all time.

I have been playing Fallout for maybe 5 hours and I just can't have fun with it. The controls are clunky, the plot seems to be one of those "find it yourself" types, and the level of difficulty is just stupidly high sometimes.

Should I persevere? Does the game (and #2) take some type of turn for the awesome after you get into it? I just got to Necropolis and am searching for the water pump parts they have. I love the setting for the game, but I haven't been able to get past the oldness of it (and all the nasty stuff that comes along with that fact).

Anyway, I appreciate the input.

[Mastergeo7]

I don't really think that the game picks up, sure you'll get a lot of equipment and skills, but the game will still be same.

Also, if you don't like the game, there's a great wiki (and the Fallout bibles) so you can read a lot about the 2 titles(tactics doesn't count).

Wiki (http://fallout.wikia.com/)

[crazyD]

I just recently played through Fallout 2 for the first time. The beginning seemed a bit dry, but damned if that game did not renew my faith in the power of ultra-violence. The first time I gibbed someone with my SMG, I was just amazed at how awesome it was.

[GunnyMo]

Yes, keep going. Most RPGs I've ever played are dry in the beginning and expand as they go. Both of them are well worth the time and effort.

[AniAko]

If you're not liking FO1, don't even bother with FO2. FO2 is infested with BUGS that will just frustrate you even more.

[GunnyMo]

That's what patches are for, my friend. :)

[Vandabo]

I would personally say to skip FO1 and go directly to FO2. There are some slight improvements, and other than the cave at the beginning (just run through it) I think it picks up more quickly than 1. You get into more humorous/interesting quests right off the bat, and you can even run down and get yourself some power armor really quickly, which makes the game very easy, if you want to just breeze through it for the story.

[VerseD]

I played Fallout 2 before I picked up the first one, and definitely found the sequel to be a more polished and well-paced experience. Plus I loved all the humor. If you really can't finish Fallout 1, don't discount the second one.

But I would recommend finishing Fallout. It's a good introduction to the series, and only takes up 20-30 hours of your life.

[tacitus]

If you are having problems with bugs - you might to try the unofficial patches http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/dload.php. Unfortuneatly I have not yet played them enough to truly vouch for them; but they are out there.

[AniAko]

If you are having problems with bugs - you might to try the unofficial patches http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/dload.php. Unfortuneatly I have not yet played them enough to truly vouch for them; but they are out there.

I don't know if they'll work with the GoG packaging. It SEEMS to be the raw copy of the original game, but they may have done something to alter the original executable.

[tacitus]

I don't know if they'll work with the GoG packaging. It SEEMS to be the raw copy of the original game, but they may have done something to alter the original executable.
I am playing with the gog version and it appears to work. In fact the gog forums have a sticky with the mod info.

[jpublic]

If you haven't fallen in love by now, you never will.

[Admiral Ackbar]

I guess that is where I don't really "get it" with Fallout. What is there to fall in love with? So far I have played like 4-5 cookie cutter missions, died a bunch of times due to random battles that are way too overpowering right off the bat, and wandered aimlessly around the world.

What are the things about this game that you all love? Maybe if I knew how I should be approaching the game, I would understand people fawning over it so much.

[J Arcane]

I just recently played through Fallout 2 for the first time. The beginning seemed a bit dry, but damned if that game did not renew my faith in the power of ultra-violence. The first time I gibbed someone with my SMG, I was just amazed at how awesome it was.

Hell yeah. My favorite tactic in the original Fallout was basically using the AR as a melee weapon, charging up to enemies and then unloading a full burst at point blank range and watching them shred into bits.

I don't know if they'll work with the GoG packaging. It SEEMS to be the raw copy of the original game, but they may have done something to alter the original executable.

I am playing with the gog version and it appears to work. In fact the gog forums have a sticky with the mod info.

The nice thing about Fallout 2 is that the way the game was designed, and the patches work, it's not the main executable that really gets patched, it's the data files and scripting and such. So you can do whatever you want to the EXE, and the patches should still work. Fuck, I've heard reports that if you patch it manually and know where in the .app bundle to look, the unofficial patches even work on the Mac port, though I haven't tried it yet.

I guess that is where I don't really "get it" with Fallout. What is there to fall in love with? So far I have played like 4-5 cookie cutter missions, died a bunch of times due to random battles that are way too overpowering right off the bat, and wandered aimlessly around the world.

What are the things about this game that you all love? Maybe if I knew how I should be approaching the game, I would understand people fawning over it so much.

Well, for one thing, it sounds like you're not familiar with how old school sandbox games work if you're dying that often. It's important to understand that there are some fights you're just not expected to win at the beginning. You need to keep an eye on what they're carrying, and learn to run away when necessary. And wandering around aimlessly is half the fun!

Fallout is part of a sadly forgotten and abandoned lineage of RPGs, and to one unfamiliar with the old classics I'd imagine can seem frustrating at first until you realize the design goals and intent are not the same at all. In some ways it mirrors a similar shift in tabletop RPGs, from old school Wilderlands/hex crawl style games from the old AD&D days, to CR and encounters and XP budgets of the newer school RPGs. Everything's expected to be a fight, every fight you're expected to win, the plot's a railroad, etc.

If you're used to the new school, the old school approach seems downright "wrong", and in many ways it's kinda the same reason that roguelike games get such shit from modern game reviewers.

[kropotkin]

I recently started playing Fallout 1 again. I didn't down load it from GOG as I still have the original. Yes I hoard stuff. Anyway I too found the game to be punishing thinking that after all these years of gaming I'd be able to walk through FO quite easily. How wrong I was!

It's not aged well but the open endedness and the nods to Wasteland are nice to see. I say persevere. It does get better, especially when you get the power armour!

[pomeroy]

Life is too short to play games you don't like (even if they are masterpieces or whatever).

[VerseD]

Well, for one thing, it sounds like you're not familiar with how old school sandbox games work if you're dying that often. It's important to understand that there are some fights you're just not expected to win at the beginning. You need to keep an eye on what they're carrying, and learn to run away when necessary. And wandering around aimlessly is half the fun!

Fallout is part of a sadly forgotten and abandoned lineage of RPGs, and to one unfamiliar with the old classics I'd imagine can seem frustrating at first until you realize the design goals and intent are not the same at all.

This is what I miss from games like Fallout, Baldur's Gate, Arcanum, and even Morrowind. Those worlds felt much more open because there wasn't a clear path and you could wander into situations for which you definitely were not prepared.

Bethesda really changed the nature of Oblivion by scaling the difficulty, so creatures everywhere are always the same level as the main character. I thought it really detracted from the immersion, and I hope Bethesda's Fallout 3 sticks to the unforgiving old school way of doing it. Won't hold my breath though.

[JayK47]

I guess that is where I don't really "get it" with Fallout. What is there to fall in love with? So far I have played like 4-5 cookie cutter missions, died a bunch of times due to random battles that are way too overpowering right off the bat, and wandered aimlessly around the world.

What are the things about this game that you all love? Maybe if I knew how I should be approaching the game, I would understand people fawning over it so much.

I have both games and probably haven't played more than 6 hours total. I have the same issues with the game that you do. I think I will like Fallout 3, but I would need to force myself to play through the first two. I just don't have the time anymore to play a game that a battle with a rat takes 30 minutes and could kill my character. Quite honestly, if the games were available in book form, I would rather read the book. It would take less time;) It's bad when I would rather read a book than play a game.

[OrangePulp]

I don't think it's Fallout/2's storyline that keeps people playing (ignoring gameplay for a moment, which I've always found awesome), but the writing. The overarching story is good, I think, but the real strength is all the little stuff. There are some fun dialogue options for your character (there's a good one that involves dropping a landmine on some chump), and there's a lot of humor in the game overall.

Also, I love the combat system. Being able to target specific body parts is great, and I do like turn-based. Of course, it does become somewhat of a hassle when you've got a bunch of jet-junkies on screen, and they take forever, because they've got 12 or so action points (from taking jet) and use all of them on their slow, shuffling walk out of there. I have to say, it is a bit of a slow starter as far as combat goes; you don't get decent guns until a bit later, and HtH (my personal favorite method) can be kinda rough low level when you don't have a lot of health. Which leads into my next point:

Get a walkthrough. Especially for the beginning of the game. It'll help you out a lot, knowing where the quests are and how to finish them correctly and without getting murdered. It's easy to skip a lot of quests in Fallout/2, and move on to the next area too early, which results in you being underleveled and undergeared. There's something to be said for exploring the game yourself, but personally, I like to make sure I get everything, because there are some quests I know I never would have known to do if not for reading a walkthrough.

[Lithium Flower]

Try lowering the difficulty. I also don't like spending too much time on one game because the battles are too tough. It's more important for me to get on with the story and find out what happens next.

That said, older RPGs are somewhat of a tough cookie for me too. I usually can't get over their 'oldness', the graphics, the 2D-ness, the isometric cams but some of them have just such awesome stories, like the Black Isle/Interplay games - they just don't make RPGs like that anymore, such a shame. It's my favourite genre.

I've just started Planescape: Torment, and I'm not even out of the mortuary yet, but the writing, the dialogue, the basic premise is so engrossing! I can finally understand why its said to be one of the best RPGs ever made.

I wish someone would actually get licences (or studios themselves would do this) for these older RPGs and remake them on newer game engines, I'd love to see a Planescape: Torment campaign done on the Neverwinter Nights 2 engine. I'd buy it in a snap, same goes for the Fallout games. It can't be too hard, the story is all there, the game design is there - all that's needed is some remodeling and texturing, voice-overs if needed. They could even re-use old voice-overs if available.

[shodan2020]

I'd say give Fallout 2 a whirl. Your companions are a lot more varied and i found that Fallout 2 was a bit more interesting storywise and more well-put together in general.

Where else can you drive a mutated molerat crazy by beating him at chess with moves from a genetically modified intelligent plant named Seymour? :)

[shodan2020]

Get a walkthrough. Especially for the beginning of the game. It'll help you out a lot, knowing where the quests are and how to finish them correctly and without getting murdered. It's easy to skip a lot of quests in Fallout/2, and move on to the next area too early, which results in you being underleveled and undergeared. There's something to be said for exploring the game yourself, but personally, I like to make sure I get everything, because there are some quests I know I never would have known to do if not for reading a walkthrough.

I love blinding NPCs from half a screen away with my sniper and watching them run. I always combo that with a Pancor Jackhammer blast. Also, make your guy smart so you can run over to Navarro and get a free set of Hardened Combat Armor by convincing the gas station worker that you're a replacement and reporting for duty. That will help you out immensely... it's not easy to get, and it's not an invincibility suit, but it should make the game a lot easier.

[Admiral Ackbar]

Well, I have decided to keep playing. I got a couple more hours in yesterday and went back to just demolish the raider camp, which was fun. I think perhaps I was totally looking at this game in the wrong light. Thanks for all the feedback, I think I will get through it, but I am definitely not doing multiple playthroughs.

[Maskatron]

Get a walkthrough. Especially for the beginning of the game.

This.

I really recommend starting with a guide too. There are some pretty useful ones out there (this one in particular) (http://www.the-spoiler.com/RPG/Interplay/fallout.6/stevefo1.htm). I started playing this recently for the first time (got 1 and 2 from GoG last month too) and I'm loving it, but I'd really be lost without referring to the guide and the maps (http://mikesrpgcenter.com/fallout/maps.html) from time to time.

I think I'm around 3/4 done now. My plan is to finish before 3 comes out, and then after I finish 3 maybe I'll go back and play 2.

[Sazime]

Just, man, every time this thread pops up I think 'Fallout 3' and I do a little dance inside... maybe I should buy into other people's nostalgia...

[Widgetcraft]

Personally, I've always found the gameplay of Fallout to be shit. Like, irredeemable shit; too god-damn slow. Walking is slow, running is slow, fighting is slow... I enjoy talking with people in town, using my social/science skills, but hate moving around or fighting. The story isn't that great either. However, the setting is fuckwin, and I think that might be what a lot of people like about it. I can deal with it though.

Want to experience the setting without slogging through the game? Read the wiki :)

[Admiral Ackbar]

I think in my heart I just want to justify the $6 I spent on the 2 of them combined. It's true, I am this cheap.

[jpublic]

I just wish I could get a Windowed Mode patch for the two games. So far, the only solution I can find is to install a Virtual Machine.

[AniAko]

I just wish I could get a Windowed Mode patch for the two games. So far, the only solution I can find is to install a Virtual Machine.

GOOD idea, I've wanted a windowed mode. Thanks for thinking for me today :)

[jpublic]

Ani, it's actually pretty easy. I did it for Arcanum a while ago. Simply pick up MS Virtual PC (which is free) set it up for about 6GB (since the only thing you'll be installing on it is Windows and the game) install XP, install the game. I found the sound a little twitchy on my Core Duo laptop, but on my Quad Core 2 it ran fine. My real complaint is that the hardware it offers is really primitive.

If anyone has a better solution I'd love it. Too many old games want to take over the whole screen, and that bugs me.

[jpublic]

Okay, because I freaking ROCK, I found a couple tools. I left them here for people to get:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/hde9zt

D3DHook is by some Japanese guy. It apparently works pretty well, but is in Japanese, so it's tricky to use.

DxWnd is easier to use, and has a bunch of options, but may eat your processor time.

[Harv]

Fallout and Fallout 2 are some of my favorite games of all time.

I wrote a walkthrough for Fallout back in the day I liked it so much.

http://www.kaneoheboy.com/fallout/walkthrough1.html

It's pretty decent. The one for Fallout 2 is incomplete and not very good.

The main thing about RPG games is that you have to figure out how you want to play the game and build your character so that he works for your play style. In Fallout though there are some things that you just in general need no matter what style of play you choose. You have to Tag Small Guns and pump points into it, because you will have to shoot things. Once you have that you can in general get by as long as you don't tweak your stats in such a way that you cripple yourself by lowering your agility, strength or perception too much.

Read the character creation steps I go through and it should give you some info on how to start the game off.

This page has a really good Fallout 2 guide.

http://user.tninet.se/~jyg699a/fallout2.html

He also has one for Fallout.

http://user.tninet.se/~jyg699a/fallout.html

These are almost too complete they are so thorough.

[Wasson_]

Fallout. Being the non RPG / turn based guy I am. I too didn't quite know what to make of the game the first time I played it, but it was one of those things where suddenly it just "clicked" for me and I understood and started to really enjoy it.

You've gotta build your character to your play style, that's how you get the most enjoyment out of it. Me? I went for balance w/ a focus on AP, then even got the perk that reduced the AP cost to fire weapons. So then when you...find the turbo plasma cannon along with the enhanced armor...you're pretty much totally unstoppable. Your enemies fall before you as piles of dust and gore.

[OrangePulp]

Okay, because I freaking ROCK, I found a couple tools. I left them here for people to get:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/hde9zt

D3DHook is by some Japanese guy. It apparently works pretty well, but is in Japanese, so it's tricky to use.

DxWnd is easier to use, and has a bunch of options, but may eat your processor time.

I'll do you one better. I found this for... Who was it? Someone in IRC.

http://timeslip.chorrol.com/sfall.html

This mod lets you do some cool stuff; run it in a window, increase the speed with hotkeys (for running across town, combat with 20 opponents, etc.), use mouse wheel in barter/trade/inventory, remove the 13 year time limit, etc. Can't remember if it's compatible with the high resolution patch or not, but handy to have around.

[jpublic]

That's a cool mod, OP. Mine are rather general tools, and can be used for most DDraw games.

[OrangePulp]

That's a cool mod, OP. Mine are rather general tools, and can be used for most DDraw games.

Oh, really? I should have paid more attention. I'll have to download those for later, as I know there are some other games that can't be ran windowed, but should. Ah, Diablo is one of them.