I want to know what happened

[MinorHero]

and I'm obviously not alone.


Alright so this is what I know. "Something" happened over at evilavatar.com and that caused a bunch of folks on the inside to decide to drop everything and leave. As quoted from the opening news story:

Different members of the managing group have at various times talked about leaving the old stomping grounds and starting up a new website. Some of you may think the whole “Magic PC” thing started this idea up, but the truth is it had been thought about long before then. Many of us decided to stay after the “Magic PC” situation and rode it out through PAX. About a month went by and something else came up that once all of us heard about it, we decided to leave EvAv en mass and hopefully come back together on another website, which ultimately led to the opening of this site. As a side note, we are also hopeful the news that was the catalyst for us leaving Evil Avatar will eventually be told to the Community over there because they deserve to have full disclosure.

While I wasn't a part of the Magic PC debacle I have been able to reconstruct it from what my friends found in google's cache as well as what others have said here. Here's a quote from a user in the opening thread:

Short version: Evil banned two people because they had fewer computer problems than him, with some smarmy comment about them having "magic PCs". It wound up becoming something of a meme, with people bringing it up constantly, so Evil got pissed, banned more people, deleted more threads, and generally behaved like an arse.

Lots of people responded with displeasure and "left the site for good", only to return a few weeks later and keep posting like nothing happened.

Basically standard Internet Drama(tm).

My understanding was that this all started because of Crysis and folks being able to get decent performance out of that game.

Well that's all fine and good, but according to the opening post it was something else that happened that caused CoG to start up. The rumor in the opening thread is that it has something to do with donation money not going to the Evil Avatar website but to the Evil Avatar person. I don't know if that's true or not but its easiest explanation to understand as of right now. And unless it is corrected by someone in the know its probably going to end up being the accepted explanation.

The hope expressed in the opening thread is that eventually the truth about the exodus will come out on evilavatar.com. I just don't think that's going to happen internally. It seems to me that Evil Avatar (the person) still has no problem locking threads and banning folks. Which brings us to this point.

I really really want to know whats up. I know a lot of other folks do as well. And the only way that is going to happen is if someone tells us what went down.

[pomeroy]

snip.

Read modeps's thread. It should enlighten you.

[Troggles]

http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showpost.php?p=9411&postcount=84 is one of the more important posts.

[Xerxes]

It's tons of threads with all this answered already.

[Food Nipple]

Here's the condensed version, these are the answers you seek, all posts came from this thread (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/showthread.php?t=264).

EvAv received something like $7200 in donations, and the site only takes a few hundred to host. Bap and others who have traveled for the site, and bought stuff for giveaways and such, were never given any of that money. Where did it go?

:rolleyes:

Just what I heard, anyway.

Yes, except the donation level was higher than that in, I think, a 13 month space. So, that's just the last 13 months or so...who knows about earlier than that.

Also, hosting cost a couple hundred or so per month. Now do some math...and the donation amount does not include the ad amount he makes which we have no clue on (we can only guess).

Bap and fits have also gone on record saying they spent about $10k a piece during their time at EA going on various trips and other things and not being reimbursed for it even after constant promising of such a thing. The only thing they got out of it was bap got a PS3 I think.

Evil will no doubt refute that or, like he did with bap and fits, say that he doesn't discuss site finances (even though most of it comes from donations by the community).

Not to belittle anyone, but it's the tip of the frustration iceberg for me personally. I feel like I was conned, and in doing so I conned the community. It makes me sick to my stomach that I was somehow complicit in the people donating what they did.

I wonder how many people recall that this isn't the first time that a few moderators left EvAV in frustration and created a new site. That's exactly how Gamers With Jobs started. The drama was kept out of the public eye for the most part but I don't think it was exactly an amicable split. A decent amount of posters from EvAv at the time also became part of that community. They seem to have carved a pretty nice niche for themselves over the years.

I was made a staff member because of GWJ. It was immediately after all those folks left. I had only been on the site for a few months so it didn't seem like a big deal to me. I didn't know the backroom workings of what caused the rift, I was just happy to help...much like modeps now.

Regardless of the numbers involved with whatever happened and whatever each side claims, the truth is never going to be completely told. It's not hard to figure out a guestimated amount of revenue that came from donations simply by adding up colors of people.

The whole magic PC fiasco of 2 months ago definitely set things in motion for me, and I knew my time was rapidly coming to a close. Evil was figuratively shitting on the people that I call friends just because they disagreed with him. Along those lines I've seen a great disconnect with the pulse of the gaming world from him - he just didn't get it anymore. Relationships not only with the community, but with publishers and developers that I had worked so hard to forge were in jeopardy.

I'll admit, about a year ago I realized the site was making money. I didn't realize how much, but I knew we were doing fine. It was then I stopped donating (yes, even as a Red I was giving money to Phil for the site) and it was then I stopped recommending people donate like I had previously. I became skeptical of the 3 or 4 time a year donation drives, when he paid hosting costs every 6 months. About that time I switched the WeeklyRelease over to Amazon links to earn myself money. It wasn't much, and I felt a bit guilty about it, but at least it was a two directional thing.

I decided at that point to legitimize my online stuff, especially when I started Co-Optimus, so I could write of trips, shipping costs and other expenses I had incurred on the site. The previous year I had spent almost $3000 on E3 alone - and I was not going to do that again without some way to offset it.

I still feel bad with the way things went down, it was sort of a chain reaction once people found out that not only I was leaving, but that James was following. I'm still really grateful for the opportunity that Evil gave me, I really just think it's sad he doesn't realize the potential that that site has/had. I had so many ideas to make it bigger, better, and more productive. But it was always - "we'll get around to it."

This is the reason I'm so excited about CoG.

[MinorHero]

Ok I guess that explains it, but did this suddenly come to them? It certainly sounds like that was not the real reason for leaving right now, but rather a reason that they knew about for some time. The way the opening post is worded makes it sound like there was some catalyst.

[Lutheran]

Has anyone asked Evil for his side of this whole debacle? Surely he has defended himself over these accusations to Bap or Fits or one of the other reds by now no? He has told me in the past that the ad money is pretty much sporadic at best as these ad companies do a poor job of coming through with the money. I have heard this from other people I know who have website ad's. They always complain of not getting paid and even when they do its nothing compared to what they think they should have received.

Are all those giveaways that the page hands out every year funded by Evil or is all of that stuff given by the developers or publishers? That site gives out a shitton of stuff every year. Im just disappointed over the whole situation. Evil Avatar has been my homepage for years and years. I go over there now and see a lot of news storys that have 0 comments , the off topic section used to have 2 new pages of threads every day and well now its quite dead. Its just sad to me to see it this way. I love the cast of characters that inhabited that place and I know a lot of them are here now but it just seems like something that could have been worked out instead of blowing it all up.

[BLeeP]

Has anyone ever got in touch with Gamers With Jobs to see if this sort of thing is what caused that rift? I mean, you have to wonder how long this stuff has been going on.

[Kielaran]

My knowledge of everything is secondhand at best, but to try and answer something:

@MinorHero: I believe the catalyst was the realization that this was going on
@ Lutheran: I believe that the answer Evil gave the mods was that he doesn't talk money, not even with them.

[Arilin]

Makes me kinda sad.

I started on EvAv a couple years ago, found it through some penny arcade post, and joined and like the community. I was more a lurker. Barely had 600 posts to my name over 2 years because I'm very selective in what I post in, simply because I don't know the mass majority of the people.

I don't know what all happened, how much it was but it sucks. I enjoy this community and will most likely be focusing my time on it as well now. I still glance on EvAv, but it doesn't have the same feel it once did for me. So yeah, it's kinda sad. Sucks for the people who put years, and years into the site.

[Lutheran]

My knowledge of everything is secondhand at best, but to try and answer something:

@MinorHero: I believe the catalyst was the realization that this was going on
@ Lutheran: I believe that the answer Evil gave the mods was that he doesn't talk money, not even with them.

OK thanks for the info , I am putting this whole situation behind me and will support both EA and this network as in the end my main goal is to read about and talk about games. I like all the people here and there are still a lot of good people on EA and more to come I am sure and well I will just leave it at that.

[Kielaran]

OK thanks for the info , I am putting this whole situation behind me and will support both EA and this network as in the end my main goal is to read about and talk about games. I like all the people here and there are still a lot of good people on EA and more to come I am sure and well I will just leave it at that.

Some people have cut ties and some are active in both. I think I shall be lurking over there a bit, but doubt I will post there again. Either way, good to see that you plan to be around these parts some.:)

[Rogue_hunter]

z9OGfBGOCpk

[BLeeP]

snip

I watched that and was wondering if you meant it to pertain to the discussion at hand, and then I went back to the front page and saw what the topic title appeared to be in the side bar. Well played.

[Everyone vs Dinosaurs]

I think that what bap said is a good summary of at least what he got caught up in.

[AgtFox]

Has anyone asked Evil for his side of this whole debacle? Surely he has defended himself over these accusations to Bap or Fits or one of the other reds by now no? He has told me in the past that the ad money is pretty much sporadic at best as these ad companies do a poor job of coming through with the money. I have heard this from other people I know who have website ad's. They always complain of not getting paid and even when they do its nothing compared to what they think they should have received.

Are all those giveaways that the page hands out every year funded by Evil or is all of that stuff given by the developers or publishers? That site gives out a shitton of stuff every year. Im just disappointed over the whole situation. Evil Avatar has been my homepage for years and years. I go over there now and see a lot of news storys that have 0 comments , the off topic section used to have 2 new pages of threads every day and well now its quite dead. Its just sad to me to see it this way. I love the cast of characters that inhabited that place and I know a lot of them are here now but it just seems like something that could have been worked out instead of blowing it all up.
For paragraph one, many of us have the e-mails that went back and forth between Nick (bap), James (fits) and Phil (Evil), so that is the proof we have to go on and the reason we all decided to leave. In those e-mails, Phil made it perfectly clear he didn't want to talk about site finances with anyone even after he was presented with the donation amount over 13 months and how much the server costs were over that time. Phil has always made it abundantly clear in public that he is not well off financially, but all these donations seem to refute that. If he had come out and said, "well, I'm using the overage in money for myself" then it may have been better or he was probably fearing that people might be pissed about it, I don't know.

As for the ad companies, if what Phil says is true then he is incompetent when it comes to advertising. Phil badly needs a business manager or something to run that site correctly because it is obvious if he is getting so little money from the ads that he is doing something really wrong.

Second paragraph, most of the giveaways were provided by the companies (from my understanding) and most of them went through Nick (bap) who shipped most of the stuff out. Phil did have some stuff sent to him for giveaway, but most of the giveaways were administered by Nick and with the Christmas stuff, many in the staff also provided items to be given away. Example would be I put an unopened copy of Mass Effect up for last year (I was only there for a couple months by that point).

The very last sentence. Nothing could be done to make the situation better. Phil was unwavering on allowing other people to take over pieces on the site and make it better. I'll be honest with you, I barely talked to Phil while I was there, my primary contact was Nick (who also hired me, I don't know if Phil had any say in my hiring). Nick and James pretty much ran the website, Phil just sat back counting the Benjamins from donators.

We would have loved to meet Phil in the middle, but he was unwilling to do so.

[Kielaran]

Example would be I put an unopened copy of Mass Effect up for last year (I was only there for a couple months by that point).


Not to sidetrack the thread too much, but thanks again for that. I put that game to many hours of good use.:D

[Johan]

Hey guys. I don't know much of what all went down (I've been reading during my three-month-ban, but I'm not much in the know). I just wanted to say one thing that might be slightly enlightening. I was a pink at EvAv, and all I ever donated was five or ten bucks (can't remember which it was any longer, but it was the minimum, whatever that was).

I'm not sure anyone can know the revenue stream over there by just scanning username colours. I always wondered how the heck I became pink (does ANYONE know? PLEASE tell me!). I'm not questioning anyone's skepticism or concerns; I'm just telling you all I know, which is not much at all. I was pink, for five or ten bucks.

I don't have much else to add except that I have always, even in the midst of my banning over at EvAv, thought very, very highly of fits and bapenguin. My banning there was deserved and a long-time coming, and I'm feeling quite reformed now. :)

I don't plan on posting much here, because I know there are a number of the crew from EvAv that would not like it (and, frankly, I don't blame them. I can be a pisser at times. Ask my wife). I do wish you guys the best, however. I like a lot of you; you're mostly good eggs! :)

Regards.

-J

(hahahaha! Had to throw that in there! :)).

-J

(once again, for good measure!)

Cheers!

-J

I really have missed many of y'all. :(

[AgtFox]

Not to sidetrack the thread too much, but thanks again for that. I put that game to many hours of good use.:D
No problem, glad I could give something back to the community...even if it was you! j/k

[BLeeP]

Hi Johan. Welcome home.

Regardless of how things happened, I would assume that your pinkness came from people donating in your name.

Or Evil has a thing for you ^_~.

[Xerxes]

Hey guys. I don't know much of what all went down (I've been reading during my three-month-ban, but I'm not much in the know). I just wanted to say one thing that might be slightly enlightening. I was a pink at EvAv, and all I ever donated was five or ten bucks (can't remember which it was any longer, but it was the minimum, whatever that was).

I'm not sure anyone can know the revenue stream over there by just scanning username colours. I always wondered how the heck I became pink (does ANYONE know? PLEASE tell me!). I'm not questioning anyone's skepticism or concerns; I'm just telling you all I know, which is not much at all. I was pink, for five or ten bucks.

I don't have much else to add except that I have always, even in the midst of my banning over at EvAv, thought very, very highly of fits and bapenguin. My banning there was deserved and a long-time coming, and I'm feeling quite reformed now. :)

I don't plan on posting much here, because I know there are a number of the crew from EvAv that would not like it (and, frankly, I don't blame them. I can be a pisser at times. Ask my wife). I do wish you guys the best, however. I like a lot of you; you're mostly good eggs! :)

Regards.

-J

(hahahaha! Had to throw that in there! :)).

-J

(once again, for good measure!)

Cheers!

-J

I really have missed many of y'all. :(

:) You'll be back.

[chameleo]

i donated once. I gave 10 dollars.... I noticed that there were more orange names than yellow... also there were A LOT of $100+ donations....! I couldn't believe how much money was being sent or had been sent to the site, and yet STILL there were donation drives and shortages of cash for the E3 trip etc. and evil didn't do anything except for his 1 paragraph "pure evil" updates.

I didn't donate again after that initial $10 because i didn't see where my money went, or what it got for me, or any other sort of thanks except for being part of a "club".

Evil was just sitting back there collecting the money....

I see a lot of Torrent sites doing this as well. They say they're not making anything, but thats total bullshit.

[Grifter]

Hey guys. I don't know much of what all went down (I've been reading during my three-month-ban, but I'm not much in the know). I just wanted to say one thing that might be slightly enlightening. I was a pink at EvAv, and all I ever donated was five or ten bucks (can't remember which it was any longer, but it was the minimum, whatever that was).

I'm not sure anyone can know the revenue stream over there by just scanning username colours. I always wondered how the heck I became pink (does ANYONE know? PLEASE tell me!). I'm not questioning anyone's skepticism or concerns; I'm just telling you all I know, which is not much at all. I was pink, for five or ten bucks.

I don't have much else to add except that I have always, even in the midst of my banning over at EvAv, thought very, very highly of fits and bapenguin. My banning there was deserved and a long-time coming, and I'm feeling quite reformed now. :)

I don't plan on posting much here, because I know there are a number of the crew from EvAv that would not like it (and, frankly, I don't blame them. I can be a pisser at times. Ask my wife). I do wish you guys the best, however. I like a lot of you; you're mostly good eggs! :)

Regards.

-J

(hahahaha! Had to throw that in there! :)).

-J

(once again, for good measure!)

Cheers!

-J

I really have missed many of y'all. :(

I personally would love to have you back and if you browse around some of the first threads started here you will see that I'm not the only one.

[VerseD]

It's interesting to see a blow-by-blow, but don't let this site be defined as an anti-Evil Avatar. It has to be a community with its own identity.

[rinichanraar]

I don't plan on posting much here, because I know there are a number of the crew from EvAv that would not like it (and, frankly, I don't blame them. I can be a pisser at times. Ask my wife). I do wish you guys the best, however. I like a lot of you; you're mostly good eggs! :)

Regards.

-J

(hahahaha! Had to throw that in there! :)).

-J

(once again, for good measure!)

Cheers!

-J

I really have missed many of y'all. :(

Did you hit the four-smiley limit?! ;)

Oh, and I wanted to tell you that your name came up in another thread, and the few people I spoke to (more like typed with?) said they thought you were a great poster, even if you do go overboard sometimes. Plus, with the smiley limit and no P&R forum here, we figured you'd be pretty tame. :p

Miss you, Johan!

[pomeroy]

It's interesting to see a blow-by-blow, but don't let this site be defined as an anti-Evil Avatar. It has to be a community with its own identity.

I agree with this.

I figure it'll only last a few more days, but I really hope we get the whole "SCREW EVAV" thing out of our systems, collectively.

[BLeeP]

I agree with this.

I figure it'll only last a few more days, but I really hope we get the whole "SCREW EVAV" thing out of our systems, collectively.

We definitely will. It has already gotten tons better and I'm sure it will get to the point where no one will mention it except noobies, and we will simply respond with "we don't talk about that around here".



And then rail them.

[drobvice]

It's funny I was thinking about Johan in real life the other day. For some reason I realized I hadn't seen a post of his in quite awhile and looked him up. This was basically the same day the meltdown happened and then Johan reappeared the next day. Weird.

[BLeeP]

It's funny I was thinking about Johan in real life the other day. For some reason I realized I hadn't seen a post of his in quite awhile and looked him up. This was basically the same day the meltdown happened and then Johan reappeared the next day. Weird.

To be honest, the initial thought that ran through my head when I saw Johan come back right after the break up was "Good God...Evil has invited Johan back to save the EvAv community!".

True Story.

[Johan]

Nobody is saving anything. It's a forum, after all, and change is inevitable. All I do is post; no heavy lifting required.

My return wasn't coincidental. I asked to come back because I had been wanting to ask for a while. I actually had several e-mails composed to send to fitbabits at several points and just kept putting it off. Finally, when several people who I frankly did not like nor get along with (no blame in that...just reality) left, I felt even more comfortable asking to come back, sans the baggage of old arguments. I grew tired of that shit, as I'm sure others did.

As someone said previously in this thread, y'all will forge an identity independent of EvAv, I am sure. You have a bright future here with some good people (and a few that I think are jerks, but who cares what I think? ;)).

All the best.

[civil]

Yeah, I donated on a few people's behalf over at EvAv, so I'm sure lots of us cumulatively giving to certain posters brought them to upper levels of color (I was a proud Pink there).

Johan, I don't think I ever donated to you but I would like to see you here. You, me and Abednigo were, I think, the only "out" Christians over at EvAv. Dunno why, but that stood out to me. Though if I remember you and I were of two different viewpoints on many things. Oh yeah, and you like shitty Christian music. ;)

[TrackZero]

Ok I guess that explains it, but did this suddenly come to them? It certainly sounds like that was not the real reason for leaving right now, but rather a reason that they knew about for some time. The way the opening post is worded makes it sound like there was some catalyst.

I don't understand why you really need detail after detail, there was plenty in that condensed version. We're not here to be a soap opera. Good people left for good reasons, not everything needs to be dragged out just to prove how we don't like how someone handles themselves.

[TrackZero]

I don't plan on posting much here

That's a shame man. I always enjoyed having you on the board. If you ever change your mind, we're around. ;)

[Lint of Death]

I still have the original evolution thread in my mental memory but I'm nothing if not forgiving :p

To its credit (or discredit, depending), that was the thread that got me really participating in the forum. (incidentally that's the subject of my new paper in my academic argumentation class!)

[Norse]

Johan, you better post here or I'll hunt you down....

[Xerxes]

Yeah, I donated on a few people's behalf over at EvAv, so I'm sure lots of us cumulatively giving to certain posters brought them to upper levels of color (I was a proud Pink there).

Johan, I don't think I ever donated to you but I would like to see you here. You, me and Abednigo were, I think, the only "out" Christians over at EvAv. Dunno why, but that stood out to me. Though if I remember you and I were of two different viewpoints on many things. Oh yeah, and you like shitty Christian music. ;)

I'm Christian-esque. :o

[BLeeP]

Deleted by request. I love all of you.

[Lutheran]

I agree with Johan about not judging donations by the amount of orange members , and the 100 dollar donations were culmalative from what I understood. Unless you have a list of the donations you can't just go by the colors to determine what someone gave the last time they donated. Agtfox thanks for the explanation but I am done with the issue at hand and will look foward to the great reviews you provide and hopefully all parties and their websites will enjoy success. I am of the mind that the people running sites like these are entitled to make money. I bear Evil no ill will at all for making money on his site. He's smart to do so , like someone else said here in another thread if you donated money that you gave a crap about then you need to really go over your finances a bit better and be smarter. I will also donate here to show my appreciation for the hard work of this boards crew as well. What you guys do with the money , I couldn't care less.

[Lutheran]

Did you hit the four-smiley limit?! ;)

Oh, and I wanted to tell you that your name came up in another thread, and the few people I spoke to (more like typed with?) said they thought you were a great poster, even if you do go overboard sometimes. Plus, with the smiley limit and no P&R forum here, we figured you'd be pretty tame. :p

Miss you, Johan!

rini is it ok that I think your hot? :o I enjoy your posts as well hehe :D

[OrangePulp]

I agree with Johan about not judging donations by the amount of orange members , and the 100 dollar donations were culmalative from what I understood. Unless you have a list of the donations you can't just go by the colors to determine what someone gave the last time they donated. Agtfox thanks for the explanation but I am done with the issue at hand and will look foward to the great reviews you provide and hopefully all parties and their websites will enjoy success. I am of the mind that the people running sites like these are entitled to make money. I bear Evil no ill will at all for making money on his site. He's smart to do so , like someone else said here in another thread if you donated money that you gave a crap about then you need to really go over your finances a bit better and be smarter. I will also donate here to show my appreciation for the hard work of this boards crew as well. What you guys do with the money , I couldn't care less.

I think the problem people have with Evil making money off the donations is that the implication was that the donations went to running the site and making it better. Considering that bap and fits did all the work, I don't see how Evil getting extra money could be considered making the site better.

What this site really needs is a link from Penny Arcade. It's how I found EvAv in the first place.

[Ghost Rider]

I bear Evil no ill will at all for making money on his site. He's smart to do so , like someone else said here in another thread if you donated money that you gave a crap about then you need to really go over your finances a bit better and be smarter.

I don't understand this argument, I give a crap about all my money, whether it's the tiniest or largest amount. The fact that you donate money doesn't automatically mean you shouldn't care about that money, you've just made a conscious decision to give that amount of money.

It's the same as if I give money to the local dog shelter under the premise it will be used to pay for dog treatment and it's then used for a totally different purpose which I don't agree with. It becomes money that could of been given to something I do agree with.

[Lutheran]

I understand your point Ghost , I worded that poorly. I will speak for myself and say before I donated a dime I already had surmised that my donation was going to Phil to do with what he wanted. Only a moron would think that all donations were going to pay for the hosting of the site. It takes about 5 seconds on google to figure out approximate costs with respect to running/hosting a website. And he never said he was going to use the donations to pay for trips or pay his staff. To Phil the page is a hobby AND a business. If the reds who worked there didn't like how he ran it they should just move on and they did. I have no doubt that for a long time before these guys arrived Evil laid out a lot of money to keep that site going. I remember a time when he was doing almost all the work on the site himself. That he is now making money is none of my business.

People can't bitch that they spent money in travel expenses when it was their choice to do so. I mean to me if your going to spend your own money there are probably multiple reasons why you are taking the trip. If I was a mod I would have asked Phil to pay for the trip, if he said no I would either not go because I can't afford it or I would go thinking I could have a great time and maybe further my career in this business. Going to E3 or PAX must be a ton of fun and also a way to make contacts in the industry. A guy like Bap , IMHO , will soon reap the benefits of that as he has talent and can go deep in this business. I dare say he has gotten a lot of exposure being an Admin on Phils website. Anyway I said I was done with this and I am so thats it. I know this website/network will be successful and I am pretty damn sure Evil Avatar will bounce back. I just hope Fits reclaims his old nickname :)

[MinorHero]

I don't understand why you really need detail after detail, there was plenty in that condensed version. We're not here to be a soap opera. Good people left for good reasons, not everything needs to be dragged out just to prove how we don't like how someone handles themselves.

I really don't want details. I just wanted to know what the trigger was since the way things were worded it sounded vaguely important and would determine whether I continued to visit evilavatar.com. From what people have said since the trigger really was the ultimate realization of a few people that some amount of monies was flowing through evilavatar.com.

[Vasanni]

Our landlord became fed up with the late night parties and music. With the constant stream of drugged out hookers and rodeo midgets that we had rolling through and despite the fact that he didnt mind picking up the few rolls of benji's that occasionally got strewn about in true player fashion it was finally decided that it was time for us all to part ways. And move on up to a site with a complete contrast in color scheme.
Real gamers dont dance, we boogie. All will be fine we still have a core group of great people here without the petty bullshit. Worry not about the past and just enjoy the now. Here at CoG.

[rein]

I just want to say I hope Johan is here for good.

[Rogue_hunter]

I watched that and was wondering if you meant it to pertain to the discussion at hand, and then I went back to the front page and saw what the topic title appeared to be in the side bar. Well played.

I'm glad someone got it. I was just trying to bring some lightheartedness to this, as it seems to be constantly covered in multiple threads. Can't we just focus on the here and now for now on?

[Ancalagon]

I understand your point Ghost , I worded that poorly. I will speak for myself and say before I donated a dime I already had surmised that my donation was going to Phil to do with what he wanted. Only a moron would think that all donations were going to pay for the hosting of the site. It takes about 5 seconds on google to figure out approximate costs with respect to running/hosting a website. And he never said he was going to use the donations to pay for trips or pay his staff. To Phil the page is a hobby AND a business. If the reds who worked there didn't like how he ran it they should just move on and they did. I have no doubt that for a long time before these guys arrived Evil laid out a lot of money to keep that site going. I remember a time when he was doing almost all the work on the site himself. That he is now making money is none of my business.

People can't bitch that they spent money in travel expenses when it was their choice to do so. I mean to me if your going to spend your own money there are probably multiple reasons why you are taking the trip. If I was a mod I would have asked Phil to pay for the trip, if he said no I would either not go because I can't afford it or I would go thinking I could have a great time and maybe further my career in this business. Going to E3 or PAX must be a ton of fun and also a way to make contacts in the industry. A guy like Bap , IMHO , will soon reap the benefits of that as he has talent and can go deep in this business. I dare say he has gotten a lot of exposure being an Admin on Phils website. Anyway I said I was done with this and I am so thats it. I know this website/network will be successful and I am pretty damn sure Evil Avatar will bounce back. I just hope Fits reclaims his old nickname :)

Then I guess I'm a moron, because I assumed that my donations were going to help Phil host the site. Also, had he given that money to Fits and Baps et al to pay for flights etc, that would have been fine. But keeping it for himself when it is advertised that donations help the site is plain misleading, and I dont think its fair to characterize people who were misled as morons.

I dont think its fair that Phil takes a salary from the donations for what he does, because frankly he seemed less involved with the site than his moderators. The fact that he didnt even offer to help out with the costs of their flights when they went to provide coverage for the site (which in turn provides advertising revenue and donations, all of which end up in Phils pocket) shows his lack of appreciation for the work of others, and his greed.

[TheKeck]

You, me and Abednigo were, I think, the only "out" Christians over at EvAv.
Really? I didn't make that clear? Or are you just forgetting me?

[civil]

Really? I didn't make that clear? Or are you just forgetting me?
Uh...

Hey, look at the pretty pony over there! Hello pretty pony!

::runs and covers head with newspaper::

[Lutheran]

Then I guess I'm a moron, because I assumed that my donations were going to help Phil host the site. Also, had he given that money to Fits and Baps et al to pay for flights etc, that would have been fine. But keeping it for himself when it is advertised that donations help the site is plain misleading, and I dont think its fair to characterize people who were misled as morons.

I dont think its fair that Phil takes a salary from the donations for what he does, because frankly he seemed less involved with the site than his moderators. The fact that he didnt even offer to help out with the costs of their flights when they went to provide coverage for the site (which in turn provides advertising revenue and donations, all of which end up in Phils pocket) shows his lack of appreciation for the work of others, and his greed.

I would edit out my use of the word moron but you quoted it so heh , I didn't mean all who donated were morons for not realizing how the money would be spent just if you thought the money was solely for hosting then you probably don't realize how many people are on that site donating and probably have no clue as to the costs of bandwidth/hosting. Which doesn't make you or anyone else a moron. I have been caught up in the emotion of this situation much like everyone else so im sorry if anyone took offense.

[Norse]

I see EvAv has created a new user category named "Honored Guests":

AgtFox
bapenguin
BlindSwordsman
Dr.Finger
fitbabits
Mark Rein
xcalibur

[fitbabits]

I see EvAv has created a new user category named "Honored Guests":

AgtFox
bapenguin
BlindSwordsman
Dr.Finger
fitbabits
Mark Rein
xcalibur

Yeah, honored in the sense that none of us have access to the subscriber forums, PMs are turned off... I really feel honored.

[Norse]

Yeah, honored in the sense that none of us have access to the subscriber forums, PMs are turned off... I really feel honored.

Who is xcalibur? A developer or something? BlindSwordsman is Dyack, right?

[GunnyMo]

I just want to say I hope Johan is here for good.

Now, I am very, very frightened. I hope I can chalk your post up to a PTSD hallucination. :D

[fitbabits]

Who is xcalibur? A developer or something? BlindSwordsman is Dyack, right?

xcalibur is the guy who signed his posts with an -x. Claims to be a dev, but I'm not sure.

Dyack - you're spot on with that one.

[Murtaug]

Ugh.

I had pieced enough of the story together to have a general idea of what happened, but not to this extent. I really regret all the money I threw at that site, at the time I at least thought I was helping keep something I really loved running. I guess it is a good thing my ass is broke and I could not donate more, which I was going to do in the recent past.

The more that is revealed, the more my heart sinks. I guess I am just glad to still have a place where most have migrated.

I logged off of Evil Avatar for the last time today, I think CoG is home now.

[Slack3r78]

@Johan,

Good to see you around, buddy, in whatever capacity that might be.

[drobvice]

xcalibur is the guy who signed his posts with an -x. Claims to be a dev, but I'm not sure.
I don't know what it is but I get almost angry when I see people sign off on their posts. I can't explain it.

[Disgustipated]

I don't know what it is but I get almost angry when I see people sign off on their posts. I can't explain it.

Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

-D

[drobvice]

Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.

-D

You better not touch my horse!

[Widgetcraft]

Yeah, honored in the sense that none of us have access to the subscriber forums, PMs are turned off... I really feel honored.

PMs are turned off for you?

[Disgustipated]

PMs are turned off for you?

Why not? Evil believes that they would use PM's to try to subvert the population of Evil Avatar.

[Church42]

Hmmm interesting

[Sandman]

Honored Guests? That cracks me up...even more so that Evil puts devs in the same category.

[Xerxes]

Honored Guests? That cracks me up...even more so that Evil puts devs in the same category.

More reason Mark Rein and Denis Dyack should be over here. Not there.

[Sl1pstream]

Has anyone asked Evil for his side of this whole debacle?

I tried yesterday. I joined his IRC channel and pretented to be neutral. We talked about weather and other crap, but when I finally started a private chat with him and asked about "those rumors", he didn't type a thing. I waited about 30 minutes before I logged off, but I'll try again soon.

Thing is, if he doesn't feel like he has an obligation to tell the other admins about what happens to the money people donate, he sure as hell isn't going to tell anyone else.

[Blue]

Johan, I don't think I ever donated to you but I would like to see you here. You, me and Abednigo were, I think, the only "out" Christians over at EvAv. Dunno why, but that stood out to me. Though if I remember you and I were of two different viewpoints on many things. Oh yeah, and you like shitty Christian music. ;)

I always felt like I was posting by myself in every religious thread on EvAv....well, me and Johan maybe, but he's full of crazy. Which is why we love him.

I mean, someone even told me to change my user title to what it is now because of it. You and I Civil, we be on shaky ground now.

[Lon Lon Rabbit]

Wait so their all their PMs are turned off?

We can't send them any either?

I tried to send one to xcalibur to let him know about CoG, he was a cool guy (despite the post signing) who apparently works with Retro, but now I'm worried the PM never got there.

Hopefully I got it in before he became "honoured" as I don't think he was blue then. You also can't find their profile link in the members list any more.

[AgtFox]

Wait so their all their PMs are turned off
It looks like you can send PMs to all but Mark Rein currently...well, and me, but that's because I haven't logged in since we left. I guess it is simple to just enable it, but I have to login first.

[Midrael]

Ooooh so this is where everyone went. Hooray, new gaming website in the bookmark links. :)

[Xerxes]

Deleted by request. I love all of you.

Yeah you better had. Trying to have me defend myself. :rolleyes:

[TheKeck]

Uh...

Hey, look at the pretty pony over there! Hello pretty pony!

::runs and covers head with newspaper::
It's ok, I forgive you. ;)

[Shjinta]

So.. It is nice to see what happened. But By looking at the way it went down I kind of figured what Happened.. Am I said I lost a few hundred dollars on a site? Nah. At the time it went to a practical use. I became the Quebec guy in green. hell I still am for another like 3 years.

For me, I just feel bad for james and Nick and everyone else who traveled etc. That's the only thing that bothered me.

In the end guys, it happened, it's over, lets all move on and end job CoG and make it the best we can in our own ways :D I'm happy to be a part of the CoG network in this site and Co-Optimus. Great to be here.

[BlackPete]

It looks like you can send PMs to all but Mark Rein currently...well, and me, but that's because I haven't logged in since we left. I guess it is simple to just enable it, but I have to login first.

Or you could just mail Mark Rein directly ;)

[rinichanraar]

rini is it ok that I think your hot? :o I enjoy your posts as well hehe :D

It's totally okay! In fact, I think it's awesome, and it makes me happy because I'm usually the "cute" (in other words, "less hot") one among my hot best friends. :)

[astranoir]

It's totally okay! In fact, I think it's awesome, and it makes me happy because I'm usually the "cute" (in other words, "less hot") one among my hot best friends. :)

I can't believe you're a "less hot" friend. That's insane. You are indeed quite attractive.

[fitbabits]

It's totally okay! In fact, I think it's awesome, and it makes me happy because I'm usually the "cute" (in other words, "less hot") one among my hot best friends. :)

I can't believe you're a "less hot" friend. That's insane. You are indeed quite attractive.

This could get very interesting...

[Lutheran]

I can't believe you're a "less hot" friend. That's insane. You are indeed quite attractive.


Hot girls hang out in bunches hehe , like bananas :) rini no one is hotter then you but then again I like girls that have your look so I guess I am biased :eek:

I should have went to Pax :(

[rinichanraar]

I can't believe you're a "less hot" friend. That's insane. You are indeed quite attractive.

Aw, thank you. In all honesty, I think you're super pretty, too! :p

This could get very interesting...

Well, I do have a thing for hapas.

Hot girls hang out in bunches hehe , like bananas :) rini no one is hotter then you but then again I like girls that have your look so I guess I am biased :eek:

I should have went to Pax :(

You should have! Well, there's always next year. We'll meet each other someday. :)

[astranoir]

Aw, thank you. In all honesty, I think you're super pretty, too! :p

Well, I do have a thing for hapas.


Thanks :o
Yes! Racial bonus!

[GunnyMo]

But see if I come in and say rini and astra are hot, I get the "dirty old man look" from everyone and have to go back to sitting quietly in my wheelchair. At least it gives me more time to mentally undress Gnome, I suppose.

[pomeroy]

But see if I come in and say rini and astra are hot, I get the "dirty old man look" from everyone and have to go back to sitting quietly in my wheelchair. At least it gives me more time to mental undress Gnome, I suppose.

and /thread.

[GunnyMo]

and /thread.

Yay! I win! :p

[Kielaran]

It's totally okay! In fact, I think it's awesome, and it makes me happy because I'm usually the "cute" (in other words, "less hot") one among my hot best friends. :)

Pics please.:D

Won't believe it til I see it!;)

[Rogue_hunter]

Well, this turned awkward fast. Though, Gunny makes the point, if a guy says a girl is hot on the internet, everyone sorta leers at them for saying it (the obvious, in this case, for both the girls involved, and GunnyMo himself).

At least we get to look forward to seeing them in the cosplay thread because of Halloween ;)

[BlackPete]

It's only awkward if you let it be awkward. I have no shame in saying rini and astra are hot because well, that's the simple plain truth!

Since when is the truth awkward? ;)

[Kielaran]

Though, Gunny makes the point, if a guy says a girl is hot on the internet, everyone sorta leers at them for saying it (the obvious, in this case, for both the girls involved, and GunnyMo himself).


Only if the girl is underage, animated, or posted by civil. :eek:

[BlackPete]

Only if the girl is underage, animated, or posted by civil. :eek:

A non-animated girl is less awkward?

Dude... I don't even know where to begin with this... *shakes head*

[civil]

It's only awkward if you let it be awkward. I have no shame in saying rini and astra are hot because well, that's the simple plain truth!

Since when is the truth awkward? ;)
Lessee...


...riiiiigggghhhttttt about...

now. :p

[Xerxes]

Well, I do have a thing for hapas.

Co-sign. I picked up some hapas the other night. One word, Delicious. Do you use dipping sauce too?

[bone_matrix]

Yeah, honored in the sense that none of us have access to the subscriber forums, PMs are turned off... I really feel honored.

What an asshole. I always kinda had a suspicion, but this confirms it.

Also, why would you alienate some of the bigger name developers on the site? Kinda goes against the whole "gaming thing" going on over thing.

[Jeffool]

It's totally okay! In fact, I think it's awesome, and it makes me happy because I'm usually the "cute" (in other words, "less hot") one among my hot best friends. :)See, I totally take offense with your characterization of 'cute' and 'less hot' as negatives. I see those two qualities as different types of attraction, and I'm someone who absolutely finds 'cute' far more attractive than 'hot', therefor when I find someone 'cute', I'm saying that they're better than someone I'd find 'hot.' Of course, 'hot' isn't bad, it's just not as good as 'cute'.

No wonder I'm horrible with women. My attempts to flattery are seen as insults. Hell of a thing to learn at the age of twenty-eight. :D *sigh* Women are waaay too complicated.Well, this turned awkward fast. Though, Gunny makes the point, if a guy says a girl is hot on the internet, everyone sorta leers at them for saying it (the obvious, in this case, for both the girls involved, and GunnyMo himself).Or at the very least it feels awkward. Hell, for lack of knowledge of which term to use, I recently used fetching. Talk about feeling like a nerd.

[DeathtollWRX]

What was this thread about ?

Okay so I read alot of the links. I got a few questions. Has Evil Avatar ever commented about this? has he defended himself or given his side of the story? Have these questions been answered?
I agree about the females on the site, however i'm 10 years older than the one I find cutest lol /dirty

I was leary about posting here but i'm starting to dig it. I spent a whole lotta time at the old site... not always posting but reading.. got alot of good medical advice there.

[BlackPete]

I was leary about posting here but i'm starting to dig it. I spent a whole lotta time at the old site... not always posting but reading.. got alot of good medical advice there.

Medical advice on a gaming site... :eek:

Dude, you do know Trauma Center is just a game right? ;)

[Purple Santa]

I was leary about posting here but i'm starting to dig it. I spent a whole lotta time at the old site... not always posting but reading.. got alot of good medical advice there.

You took medical advice from a game forum?? Are you insane? Why not just ask random homeless people to ask what they think? I am always amazed what we find helpful on the internet :eek:

@GunnyMo: Second what he said :D

[Ancalagon]

See, I totally take offense with your characterization of 'cute' and 'less hot' as negatives. I see those two qualities as different types of attraction, and I'm someone who absolutely finds 'cute' far more attractive than 'hot', therefor when I find someone 'cute', I'm saying that they're better than someone I'd find 'hot.' Of course, 'hot' isn't bad, it's just not as good as 'cute'.


Yeah, I must say, I generally prefer cute to hot. Cuteness is also more than just physical looks, its the combination of personality, attractiveness, and a certain kind of look.

Hot is what you get when you look nice, cute is what you get when you add personality to the equation.

All of this means EvAv is run by a mad dictator.

[Kielaran]

Yeah, I must say, I generally prefer cute to hot. Cuteness is also more than just physical looks, its the combination of personality, attractiveness, and a certain kind of look.

Hot is what you get when you look nice, cute is what you get when you add personality to the equation.

All of this means EvAv is run by a mad dictator.

Agree with all. Most of the time, I find cute comes with a personality (huge plus in my books) while hot is good looking, but bland in most other aspects.

[fitbabits]

What was this thread about ?

Okay so I read alot of the links. I got a few questions. Has Evil Avatar ever commented about this? has he defended himself or given his side of the story? Have these questions been answered?
I agree about the females on the site, however i'm 10 years older than the one I find cutest lol /dirty

I was leary about posting here but i'm starting to dig it. I spent a whole lotta time at the old site... not always posting but reading.. got alot of good medical advice there.

Ever heard the saying "the silence is deafening"? Phil has had plenty of opportunities to defend himself, but the fact is that his actions are indefensible.

His response to the whole mess was to drop me to yellow status, turn off my PMs, censor CoG with ***, and belittle the work that people like myself and Nick contributed to the site.

That's your answer.

[civil]

Might I respectfully suggest that this thread has provided the answers needed and be closed? Really, the horse is looking beyond ugly at this point.

[fitbabits]

Might I respectfully suggest that this thread has provided the answers needed and be closed? Really, the horse is looking beyond ugly at this point.

You may, and I will oblige.