Dad's car stolen.

[divinechaos]

Every morning, for as long as I can remember, my dad would start his car before he left for work. He'd go outside, turn the car on, head back inside and eat his breakfast. But this morning some fucking bastard thought it was a good idea to steal his car. I have never been so ready to beat the shit out of someone until now.

Worse thing is that the keys to the house were also with the car keys so now we have to be extra careful when we lock up. I'm getting tired of this neighborhood, for some time now it's just been going to hell. My neighbor got jumped about 3 months back and now this shit. It sucks to wake up and the first thing you hear is that a car was stolen. I'm about to just drive around this area, looking for the car and just fucking ram it down so that the fucker who took it gets severely injured.

Fucking sucks.

[Johan]

I do the same thing (warm up the car). That really does suck.

People suck, basically.

[frederec]

That does suck, it really does. But at the same time...you've got to be kidding me. He would turn on the car and leave it for...what, ten, twenty minutes to eat breakfast? If you're complaining about the neighborhood, I'm surprised he was able to do this for any length of time before the car got stolen. I would have thought it would get stolen the first or second time he did that.

Then again, I'm the sort of person that makes sure all my doors to my car or house are locked, whether I'm in it or away, and I only like to leave them unlocked for just a minute or two if it's within sight the whole time.

I'm not trying to excuse the fucker that did that. If you caught them, I'd be all for a beating. But still...I can't be surprised.

[zarathstra]

Yeah dude, if your dad got away with leaving the car running in his driveway unattended more than once, your neighborhood isn't all that bad.

That being said, it does royally suck to get your car stolen. My Mom and I were visiting my grandmother in Baltimore one Christmas, and our van got stolen. I hated that van for a number of reasons, but it was stills scary for that to happen to you. They found the car later, and it looked like a group of idiots took it on a joy ride. I was more upset that they actually found the thing after the initial shock wore off. if they hadn't least we could have collected the insurance money and bought a new car.

EDIT TO ADD: You might consider getting the locks on your house replaced. Whoever stole the car knows where you live and now has a key to your house. If he's willing to steal a car, he might be willing to rob you blind next time you leave.

[Jboy001]

Is it even covered under insurance if the keys were in it? that has to really suck :(

[Housemixer]

Getting your car stolen really sucks, but why do you start the engine when you're not going to drive for the next 20 minutes?

[frederec]

That being said, it does royally suck to get your car stolen. My Mom and I were visiting my grandmother in Baltimore one Christmas, and our van got stolen. I hated that van for a number of reasons, but it was stills scary for that to happen to you. They found the car later, and it looked like a group of idiots took it on a joy ride. I was more upset that they actually found the thing after the initial shock wore off. if they hadn't least we could have collected the insurance money and bought a new car.


I went to a little safety seminar at my old apartment in Seattle, where they had a police officer talking to us about stuff. You know, the standard things like never leave anything visible in your car when you leave it unattended, and so on. One of the interesting things he told us is that most of the time when people steal cars, they just use it for transportation until it runs out of gas, so frequently cars will be found not too far away in a bit shittier condition and empty. He told us this partly to emphasize that the thinking that "no one would steal my shitty car" is bad, because most of the time they're not being stolen for profit, just as transportation.

[civil]

divinechaos, I can't stress enough how you should change those locks before you do anything else today. Every single lock that was on that keychain needs to be changed ASAP, whether it's to your house, a tool shed or a storage space. Your dad's license plate combined with whatever personal information a thief can find in the car could lead to a serious crime spree. Don't take that risk. I say this as someone who has ashamedly more than a few in his family who are professional thieves.

Do it now before you regret not doing it later, even if it feels like overreacting.

EDIT: I too am stumped at the turning on the car thing, but it happens a lot here in Chicago. So much so that now it seems normal to me.

[Kelegacy]

We have two sets of keys, one for starting the car on cold days and one for getting back in it. I lock it after I start it (most days...) so that it won't get stolen. I've heard that if it gets taken while keys are in it, insurance won't cover it.

Hope everything works out. This world is getting crazier and people more brazen. A bank close to where I work was robbed yesterday and they didn't catch the fool. It was cold so he was all bundled up with a ski mask and everything. A day before, Monday, a bank about 25 miles away was robbed, too.

Fuckers. I think we should reintitute the stocks and put people in them at city squares. Humility is a great weapon.

[Cupelix]

Unfortunately, your Dad's pattern is exactly what made this an easy crime for someone to commit. I have neighbors who do the same thing your Dad does, and every time I see them walk back inside their house, I want to scream at them. Of course, I had the same car get stolen three different times when it was completely locked up - so my paranoia level about that sort of thing is much higher than most people's.

My condolences to you though - having it happen feels like such a huge violation, even if you get it back, the car never seems the same, and the paranoia is really hard to get past unless you replace the car.

[Blue]

I don't understand why people are ripping into his dad for this. Maybe I'm naive but I expect people to not steal my crap regardless of whether or not he's letting the car warm up for a bit. I enjoy the blaming of the victim that's going on in this thread.

[Kelegacy]

I don't understand why people are ripping into his dad for this. Maybe I'm naive but I expect people to not steal my crap regardless of whether or not he's letting the car warm up for a bit. I enjoy the blaming of the victim that's going on in this thread.

Yeah, I know. We live our lives as good, honest people, and unfortunately expect others to act the same way. I would let my car run for 5-10 minutes unobserved until my girlfriend got mad and paranoid.

Thing is, I'd feel stupid if it was stolen.

[Housemixer]

Well the insurance company won't pay a dime if the key was in the unlocked car while it was stolen, that's for sure.
But starting your engine when it's cold and then waiting another 20min is not very...effiecient. You waste a lot of gas (a cold idle engine draws a lot of gas, simply because it is still not at normal temperature levels) and it's noisy as hell (at least in my neighbourhood somebody would ring at my door if my car was running for 2 minutes without anybody in it).

But this just might be "cultural" differences, as gas is pretty expensive here and no one in their right mind would waste it that way (and everytime the winter season approaches this is one of the "pro tips" on TV or in car magazines -> never let your engine run while de-icing the car). To be honest, I've never heard of anybody leaving their car running for 20 minutes (or even 10) before actually driving away, it never crossed my mind somebody would do this, that's why I've asked.

[Blue]

Yeah, I know. We live our lives as good, honest people, and unfortunately expect others to act the same way. I would let my car run for 5-10 minutes unobserved until my girlfriend got mad and paranoid.

Thing is, I'd feel stupid if it was stolen.

I'm not saying I wouldn't feel a little of an "if only I hadn't..." if it was me, but still. It's like the girl who was asking for it because she wore a short skirt to me. Completely her fault.

[wyeast]

EDIT TO ADD: You might consider getting the locks on your house replaced. Whoever stole the car knows where you live and now has a key to your house. If he's willing to steal a car, he might be willing to rob you blind next time you leave.

This. Fucking this. Run, don't walk to the nearest hardware store and pick up a new set of deadbolts.

[Widgetcraft]

That does suck, it really does. But at the same time...you've got to be kidding me. He would turn on the car and leave it for...what, ten, twenty minutes to eat breakfast? If you're complaining about the neighborhood, I'm surprised he was able to do this for any length of time before the car got stolen. I would have thought it would get stolen the first or second time he did that.

Then again, I'm the sort of person that makes sure all my doors to my car or house are locked, whether I'm in it or away, and I only like to leave them unlocked for just a minute or two if it's within sight the whole time.

I'm not trying to excuse the fucker that did that. If you caught them, I'd be all for a beating. But still...I can't be surprised.

Pretty much everyone warms up their car in the morning around here, but I live in the middle of no where, so I've never really heard of an incident like this.

[zarathstra]

I don't understand why people are ripping into his dad for this. Maybe I'm naive but I expect people to not steal my crap regardless of whether or not he's letting the car warm up for a bit. I enjoy the blaming of the victim that's going on in this thread.

I'm not so much blaming his dad as saying that what he did was...naive?

People shouldn't steal things. I think we can all agree on that. However, people DO steal things. If you don't take the proper precautions against theft, you vastly increase your risk of getting stolen from.

There's a reason I lock the door to my apartment before I leave for work. If I don't lock it, and I get robbed, then the people who stole from me are at fault, but I made it easy for them.

See what I'm saying?

[Blue]

I'm not so much blaming his dad as saying that what he did was...naive?

People shouldn't steal things. I think we can all agree on that. However, people DO steal things. If you don't take the proper precautions against theft, you vastly increase your risk of getting stolen from.

There's a reason I lock the door to my apartment before I leave for work. If I don't lock it, and I get robbed, then the people who stole from me are at fault, but I made it easy for them.

See what I'm saying?

Nah, I get that. It just seems like he was getting dumped on in force here which was a little bothersome to me. Unfortunately, it takes crap like this to make people change what they do which is both good and bad.

[Johan]

I have an older car, and when it's cold it runs very, very poorly (doesn't shift into gear well at all). I have to warm it up.

Of course, I could sit in it while it warms up, but it's cold. What can I say? :o

[Seconds Out]

Why wouldnt your Dad just install a remote start in the car?

[Nameless]

Get an electric car starter for the next car!

I do empathize, though, it really sucks to get a huge 'Humanity is Full of Jerks' headline like that.

[biosc1]

I have an older car, and when it's cold it runs very, very poorly (doesn't shift into gear well at all). I have to warm it up.

Of course, I could sit in it while it warms up, but it's cold. What can I say? :o

From what I've heard (and I'm not sure if it's as true with newer cars) is that it's better to warm it up by driving it slowing at low revs than it is to have it stand idle and warm up that way.

Used to make a world of difference with my diesel beetle. Of course, it was worse to warm up that guy in one spot due to the giant blue cloud that would form :o

OT: Door locks need to be changed. There are plenty of mobile locksmiths who are employed for expressly this purpose. You can get them there in 20 minutes if you mention it's an emergency. They usually bump other less important calls for yours.

[Bone]

I don't understand why people are ripping into his dad for this. Maybe I'm naive but I expect people to not steal my crap regardless of whether or not he's letting the car warm up for a bit. I enjoy the blaming of the victim that's going on in this thread.

I don't know, there is a certain thing called common sense. You leave a car running, and a thief is going to say "hmm... free car!".

I really don't see how you can expect any other outcome.

EDIT: I realize that I sound harsh and unsympathetic. While I am sorry at the loss of your dad's vehicle, I think that this IS a harsh lesson that the world is not going to reward every kind, trusting person just because they are good. It would be great if that's the way things were.

[Tron]

Turning your car on and leaving it just sounds like an obviously bad idea....you play with fire long enough and you're gonna get burned.

[Blue]

I don't know, there is a certain thing called common sense. You leave a car running, and a thief is going to say "hmm... free car!".

I really don't see how you can expect any other outcome.

EDIT: I realize that I sound harsh and unsympathetic. While I am sorry at the loss of your dad's vehicle, I think that this IS a harsh lesson that the world is not going to reward every kind, trusting person just because they are good. It would be great if that's the way things were.

Maybe because I expect people to not take other people's stuff. Different expectations I guess.

[Bone]

Maybe because I expect people to not take other people's stuff. Different expectations I guess.Do you live in Disney World? I mean honestly, this isn't something you can do, not for the last fifty years.

I am willing to bet the insurance doesn't cover this, because it's EXPECTED that you don't leave your keys in the car.

Blue, I know where you're coming from, and I would like to trust people as well. Unfortunately there are many people who do not share our values. But it's your responsibility to know this- you can't just pretend the world is perfect and expect bad things to not happen to you.

[Blue]

Do you live in Disney World? I mean honestly, this isn't something you can do, not for the last fifty years.

I am willing to bet the insurance doesn't cover this, because it's EXPECTED that you don't leave your keys in the car.

Blue, I know where you're coming from, and I would like to trust people as well. Unfortunately there are many people who do not share our values. But it's your responsibility to know this- you can't just pretend the world is perfect and expect bad things to not happen to you.

It just seems like the answer that you're giving (should be expected) again goes back to what I said earlier about the girl who dresses a little provocatively and then has something happen to her. Would your answer be "she was asking for it?" Come on now. I too get where you're coming from buy I don't understand why it just becomes a given. So no, I don't expect it to happen in either case.

And, if they had a Disney World Ohio, then I would live in it. Right now I have to settle for Columbus(ish).

[Tron]

Maybe because I expect people to not take other people's stuff. Different expectations I guess.

Yet your car comes with door lucks and a key for the ignition system. The world we live in unfortunately requires us to lock up our cars and houses.

[cppcrusader]

I don't understand why people are ripping into his dad for this. Maybe I'm naive but I expect people to not steal my crap regardless of whether or not he's letting the car warm up for a bit. I enjoy the blaming of the victim that's going on in this thread.

I'd say it has to do with people not realizing this is standard procedure in the winter up north and that you typically have to do this just so you can see out the windows.

I did the same thing all the time when I still lived at home. My Chevelle ran like shit on cold mornings unless warmed up for about 5 or 10 minutes. Hell, I even had to do it with my PT Cruiser when I was up for Thanksgiving and all that snow blew in.

[Johan]

...you can't just pretend the world is perfect and expect bad things to not happen to you.

SHIT! That sucks. :(

You're harshing my mellow, dude. ;)

*apparently I'm nineteen again.*

[Purple Santa]

I do the same thing (warm up the car). That really does suck.

People suck, basically.

You are a x-New Yorker and you still do this? I thought living in NY would teach you better ;)

Having stuff stolen is awful. It's a violated feeling. I've had a car stolen among other big item stuff. Sorry for you dad.

[Tron]

Would your answer be "she was asking for it?" .

Somewhat strained analogy. Girls don't dress conservatively to ward off rape. There's a reason though why your car has doorlocks and a key. Car theft is FAR more common than rape and because it doesn't involve violence in most cases many criminals seem indifferent to the act.

[Grifter]

It's obvious most of the people acting like self righteous twats in this thread have never lived any where cold (most of you seem to be from Texas) so before you start getting all high and mighty why don't you talk to the millions of people who have to go to work in temps below 30 F who like to warm their cars (some have to to even keep them running) in the morning.


Why wouldnt your Dad just install a remote start in the car?

Even with remote start the car is still running, you think some one willing to steal a car isn't willing to break a window to do it?

[Blue]

I'd say it has to do with people not realizing this is standard procedure in the winter up north and that you typically have to do this just so you can see out the windows.

I did the same thing all the time when I still lived at home. My Chevelle ran like shit on cold mornings unless warmed up for about 5 or 10 minutes. Hell, I even had to do it with my PT Cruiser when I was up for Thanksgiving and all that snow blew in.

My '86 Honda Accord would shudder to a halt in the winter if you didn't let it run for a good ten to fifteen minutes before trying to venture out. And even then it would shut off if it hit a small rodent.

[civil]

Blue with all due respect your analogies are off. Leaving your car running with the keys inside is very different than a woman wearing a short skirt. There are degrees of "invitation" there and yours doesn't match. I don't want to bet disrespectful of what divinechaos is going through so I won't push the issue. But as someone who has had some very close friends and family of his raped, please don't continue the analogy. It's different, trust me.

EDIT: I don't say that as any sort of judgment towards dc's father. As I stated it's become quite normal to see and experience, and I live in Chicago.

[Johan]

You are a x-New Yorker and you still do this?

I'm quite lower-middle-class right now, but I grew up on a block where everyone knew everyone (one neighbor was the trainer for a professional sports team, for example), and the homes were expensive. Nice place.

Then, I moved South. Yeah...things changed. It got warmer. And sometimes a bit "ignert." :D

[axion]

Even with remote start the car is still running, you think some one willing to steal a car isn't willing to break a window to do it?

I know that for some installations, you can't drive without the key even if the car is on.

[Bingley Joe]

From what I've heard (and I'm not sure if it's as true with newer cars) is that it's better to warm it up by driving it slowing at low revs than it is to have it stand idle and warm up that way.

Yeah, that's the best way to go. Idling engines are incredibly inefficient, so idling them to warm up is really just a waste of gas, since so little of it is being turned into heat.

As an example: I read somewhere that the average mid-sized north american car will burn approximately 30mL (2 tablespoons) of fuel per minute at idle, so that's nearly a liter of gas blown every morning just to avoid a few minutes of cold ass.. What a waste, and now the car is gone to boot (which, BTW, I am sorry to hear, divinechaos -- don't get me wrong). :(

Shit -- where I live, it's actually illegal to idle your car for more than 3 minutes at a time if you don't have a good reason (ie: stuck in traffic).

Like Nameless says.. an electric heater would be a far better idea in this case.

[Blue]

Somewhat strained analogy. Girls don't dress conservatively to ward off rape. There's a reason though why your car has doorlocks and a key. Car theft is FAR more common than rape and because it doesn't involve violence in most cases many criminals seem indifferent to the act.

I know what you're saying. It just seems to be the majority of this thread has a "well, he had it coming" mentality which is frustrating. And, regardless of the analogy being strained, I would almost guarantee if they flashed a picture of what a woman was wearing when it happened, you would absolutely hear the above.

[Tron]

I know that for some installations, you can't drive without the key even if the car is on.

This is correct...my girlfriend has this feature and you have to still use the key once you get in.

[Bone]

It's obvious most of the people acting like self righteous twats in this thread have never lived any where cold (most of you seem to be from Texas) so before you start getting all high and mighty why don't talk to the millions of people who have to go to work in temps below 30 F who like to warm their cars in the morning.




Even with remote start the car is still running, you think some one willing to steal a car isn't willing to break a window to do it?You know who else is a self righteous twat?

The insurance agent who is going to laugh in your face when you ask him if your stolen car is covered against leaving keys in the running car.

You can justify it with the cold, or however you like, but I would rather sit in the freezing car (which I have done, even in Texas on the rare occasion it gets cold enough) than lose my car to a thief.

[Kelegacy]

I'm not saying I wouldn't feel a little of an "if only I hadn't..." if it was me, but still. It's like the girl who was asking for it because she wore a short skirt to me. Completely her fault.

Well, she WAS asking for it. I have no impulse control.

As for why people start their cars, to the fellows who asked, for one it gets the heater going and starts to thaw windows, etc. And if you've ever cold started a car and started to drive off, the thing can bog down terribly, if not stall. It's harder on an engine, as far as I've heard, if you cold start it and drive off.

I start my car, let the heater and defrost do their thing, and taking off isn't as hard on the car. The engine is warmed a bit, which is a good thing.

I still cold start, but if I think of it I'll run down to the car and give it a few minutes to warm up. But 20 mins is a bit overkill. I guess if you leave it on that long you don't have to worry about scraping your windshield though.

[Blue]

Blue with all due respect your analogies are off. Leaving your car running with the keys inside is very different than a woman wearing a short skirt. There are degrees of "invitation" there and yours doesn't match. I don't want to bet disrespectful of what divinechaos is going through so I won't push the issue. But as someone who has had some very close friends and family of his raped, please don't continue the analogy. It's different, trust me.

EDIT: I don't say that as any sort of judgment towards dc's father. As I stated it's become quite normal to see and experience, and I live in Chicago.

Ain't trying to push, but someone I'm exceptionally exceptionally close to had this happen to them as well and her own mother blamed her clothes. Honestly. And while you think it might be different, I still believe the "they were asking for it" line between the two holds. Not to be difficult or even rude (and I hate it when people say that and then go onto say something rude, so that isn't this intent), but it's also offensive to come in and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about as though I also didn't sit there with them as they were going through it enough to make to the comparison and realize the implications.

[Tron]

It's obvious most of the people acting like self righteous twats in this thread have never lived any where cold (most of you seem to be from Texas) so before you start getting all high and mighty why don't you talk to the millions of people who have to go to work in temps below 30 F who like to warm their cars (some have to to even keep them running) in the morning.

Where does one even begin with a post like this...first off you could always start the car and lock the doors if you have a second key...I've done this myself...you can also sit with the car while it warms...a cup of hot coffee goes a long way at that point...you could also invest in a relatively cheap engine warmer...I know many people who own them...or you could attempt to drive the car seeing as some car companies actually don't recommend letting your car room up in this fashion.

But hey...knock yourself out calling us twats if that makes you feel better! :p

[Bone]

SHIT! That sucks. :(

You're harshing my mellow, dude. ;)

*apparently I'm nineteen again.*

And you're not leaving the house in those tight pants, young man.

[Generation ABXY]

Man, I'm sorry to hear that, divinechaos. My dad used to do this same thing (at least in winter), and he never had a problem. Granted, we lived on like a mile-long private road, but it is still a shame someone saw such an everyday, common practice as an invitation. Hopefully they'll find it (and the guy who did it), and all in one piece. Either way, I agree with the others: change your locks as quickly as possible.

[Doctor Setebos]

I let my car run for 15-20 minutes on really cold mornings, completely unlocked. Of course, I live in a tiny farm town out in the middle of no where. And I know everyone in town. I don't have to worry about it getting stolen here.

But that really does suck. I'm going to echo the sentiments of several others here when I say get those door locks changed immediately.

[Bingley Joe]

It's obvious most of the people acting like self righteous twats in this thread have never lived any where cold (most of you seem to be from Texas) so before you start getting all high and mighty why don't you talk to the millions of people who have to go to work in temps below 30 F who like to warm their cars (some have to to even keep them running) in the morning.

Where does one even begin with a post like this...first off you could always start the car and lock the doors if you have a second key...I've done this myself...you can also sit with the car while it warms...a cup of hot coffee goes a long way at that point...you could also invest in a relatively cheap engine warmer...I know many people who own them...or you could attempt to drive the car seeing as some car companies actually don't recommend letting your car room up in this fashion.

But hey...knock yourself out calling us twats if that makes you feel better! :p

Indeed. Not only all of that, but we're talking about leaving the thing sitting for the time it takes to have breakfast.. it only takes a minute or two tops to get an engine warm, and less if you're driving it (although I know how long and nasty that first minute feels).

And it's -4 here today in your Fahrenheit degrees, Grifter, so believe me when I say I know what I'm talking about.

[Grifter]

But as someone who has had some very close friends and family of his raped, please don't continue the analogy. It's different, trust me.

As have I and the analogy is not far off, not to the men committing the crimes anyway.

A crime is a crime no matter why it happened rather it be a women dressed like a porn star being raped or an unlocked running car being stolen (we are not debating the severity or the emotional damage one causes as over the other.) in that scenario if you blame one victim you have to blame the other which in most cases would be and is stupid.

I know some of you like to make your selves feel better by calling out others who may have made a decision you feel is bad but I guarantee you no one starts their car in the morning thinking "my cars going to get stolen but I don't care because it's so cold" just like no woman puts on a sexy outfit before going to a club to do a bit of drinking and dancing thinks "If I do this I'm going to get raped by some twisted fuck who thinks a short skirt is a free ticket to ride." That being said this should not have happened running car or not and his father is not to blame. How many of you do something that some one else may consider "stupid" but it's perfectly normal to you and because it has never gone south you get comfortable in that action. The more you do something "dangerous" without incident the safer you feel it becomes.

[Nameless]

Shit -- where I live, it's actually illegal to idle your car for more than 3 minutes at a time if you don't have a good reason (ie: stuck in traffic).

Like Nameless says.. an electric heater would be a far better idea in this case.

It's illegal? Is that all of Toronto or just the part you live in? I'm just curious as I'd never heard of laws against this. I wonder if Ottawa has regulations like that; I've not had a car since I moved here.

Where I'm from (northern Ontario), it's a matter of course that you idle your car 10-20 minutes, but there's also not a real issue with theft, what with the low population density. Also, it's -40 there right now. God.

[Bone]

The difference is the moral lapse it takes to violate someone's physical person is a lot more serious than taking a car that is running and unlocked. It's a huge difference and trying to equate the two is not being intellectually honest at all.

A five year old could step up and drive away with a running car and not mean a thing by it. I don't think anybody has taken an innocent joyride with a woman's body.

And nobody's trying to make themselves feel better by saying this is stupid. It sucks that this decision was made, and that the thief took the car. In the end though, I think it's a poor decision if you're the type of person who prefers not to have your car stolen.

[Grifter]

And it's -4 here today in your Fahrenheit degrees, Grifter, so believe me when I say I know what I'm talking about.

It takes a lot longer than a minute or two to warm an engine and when it's cold out if I don't let my car warm up for at least 6 min. it will stall and die at all the stop signs and or red lights for the next 10min so unfortunately there are some of us who don't have much of a choice. Thankfully my car is in a garage but there are a lot of people who don't have that option.

Unless you have never had anything bad happen to you because of something you did, stupid or other wise, you have no right to give any one shit. The kid came in here for some support by people he thought were friends and not to be belittle by a bunch of Internet douchebags.

[Bone]

Unless you have never had anything bad happen to you because of something you did, stupid or other wise, you have no right to give any one shit. The kid came in here for some support by people he thought were friends and not to be belittle by a bunch of Internet douchebags.So far you're the one throwing around the most douchewater. Why don't you back off the personal attacks and try to have a real conversation?

I have made plenty of stupid decisions in my life and suffered for them. They were still stupid decisions, and should be treated as such. Otherwise I wouldn't learn from them.

Or, once the insurance denies this guy's claim, do you recommend he goes back to leaving his car running and unlocked?

[Nuggsy]

I don't think anybody has taken an innocent joyride with a woman's body.

Either you've never hung around with the right chicks, or there's a mother joke in there somewhere. . . :D

[Grifter]

The difference is the moral lapse it takes to violate someone's physical person is a lot more serious than taking a car that is running and unlocked. It's a huge difference and trying to equate the two is not being intellectually honest at all.

Like I said we are not comparing the morality of the two but rather if the victim in either case is to blame. Rape is obviously a more severe and damaging crime to us but to the person committing the crimes it may not be.

So far you're the one throwing around the most douchewater. Why don't you back off the personal attacks and try to have a real conversation?

I have made plenty of stupid decisions in my life and suffered for them. They were still stupid decisions, and should be treated as such. Otherwise I wouldn't learn from them.

Or, once the insurance denies this guy's claim, do you recommend he goes back to leaving his car running and unlocked?

I like you Bone (and everyone else here) and respect your opinion(s) but:

I know how the kid is feeling and the last thing he needs is people (friends?) saying it's his fathers fault (which it is not) especially by some of the core users of this community. If we were all a bunch of random strangers on 4chan or gameFAQS I could understand this kind of reaction but it honestly pisses me off to see it here. You guys are (obviously) not twats and/or douchbags in general but some of you are acting like it here. Let the cops and insurance agents do the lecturing and lets give the kid a place to vent and get support.

[Bone]

Like I said we are not comparing the morality of the two but rather if the victim in either case is to blame. Rape is obviously a more severe and damaging crime to us but to the person committing the crimes it may not be.

Now we're talking. OK, so would you let your daughter dress like a hooker and walk the city streets at 2 in the morning? Because while she wouldn't deserve to be raped, she probably would be, and it would have been stupid to let her go out in those circumstances. This is where I'm coming from. I'm not condoning crimes, but acknowledging when they can happen and trying to mitigate against them.

[Tron]

belittled by a bunch of Internet douchebags.

Ironically you seem to be the only one dishing out insults at this point...I certainly understand that this is a huge inconvenience for his father and could result in a lot of money coming out of his own pocket but I also recognize that this could have been easily avoided.

I for one respect it when my friends point out that I'm doing something wrong...I see nothing wrong with us pointing out that this was an accident waiting to happen.

[Blue]

Now we're talking. OK, so would you let your daughter dress like a hooker and walk the city streets at 2 in the morning? Because while she wouldn't deserve to be raped, she probably would be, and it would have been stupid to let her go out in those circumstances. This is where I'm coming from. I'm not condoning crimes, but acknowledging when they can happen and trying to mitigate against them.

Of course not. But I'll be honest in saying that my original point between the two was that a majority of the posts seem to be blaming the dad where I think that's drastically unfair. Maybe our society has gotten that apathetic and hoisted all blame on the person it happens to, who knows. So while I get that you don't condone the crime you also don't have to rub the dude's face in it either. That's how a lot of these posts are reading to me (not just yours) and that's obnoxious.

And, again, saying that it's stupid to let the girl go out in those conditions is still blaming the victim as opposed to the person who did the actual crime.

[Bone]

To say I'm blaming the victim, I think is missing the point. Both victims have the opportunity to assess the known risk and avoid it. My sympathy is there as a human, of course, but if you ignore known risks you can expect to sometimes be the target of these risks.

I don't think anyone is rubbing the guy's face in it, but what is going to happen? His insurance won't cover it, he's going to lose money and lack transportation. How can he avoid such a fate in the future?

[Blue]

To say I'm blaming the victim, I think is missing the point. Both victims have the opportunity to assess the known risk and avoid it. My sympathy is there as a human, of course, but if you ignore known risks you can expect to sometimes be the target of these risks.

I don't think anyone is rubbing the guy's face in it, but what is going to happen? His insurance won't cover it, he's going to lose money and lack transportation. How can he avoid such a fate in the future?

I could go with the smartass comment and say to not have someone steal his car :). And I understand the overall point people are making for sure and that at times it takes something like this for people to become more aware of the world around them (which is exactly what happened in my wife and I's case), though it does too feel like there's blame being heaped his way. I think it's also embedded in the point trying to be made. At least that's how it reads to me.

[LongStepMantis]

That sucks ass man.

As others have said: Change your door locks...not later, not soon, right fucking now.

My wife and I have debated the "leaving the car to warm issue" (she's from a nicer area, I've lived in some real ghettos) and it boils down to we do it...with the doors locked and a spare set of keys to unlock the doors when we're ready to leave. She insisted it was overkill, but I reminded her we would likely have to buy a new car out of our own pockets if someone took it. She stopped arguing at that point.

[pomeroy]

I don't understand why people are ripping into his dad for this. Maybe I'm naive but I expect people to not steal my crap regardless of whether or not he's letting the car warm up for a bit. I enjoy the blaming of the victim that's going on in this thread.

You're right, you're naive. It's just asinine to leave your car running for twenty minutes and expect nothing to happen. Yeah, sure, in a perfect world it would still be there...but this isn't some utopia. If I leave my iPod on the front stoop of my apartment building, I'm betting it'll get stolen. And you know whose fault that would be? MINE.

[Blue]

You're right, you're naive. It's just asinine to leave your car running for twenty minutes and expect nothing to happen. Yeah, sure, in a perfect world it would still be there...but this isn't some utopia. If I leave my iPod on the front stoop of my apartment building, I'm betting it'll get stolen. And you know whose fault that would be? MINE.

Nah, you're right. Completely not the person who took it.

[Bone]

I think we as a society are too afraid to take responsibility for our actions, and this is a prime example. Nobody wants to be called out for essentially fucking up. Let's call a spade a spade, please.

I smoked for almost twenty years- I just quit in December. However, if I started a thread saying "I got lung cancer, it's not fair" I would expect people to ask "well, did you smoke for twenty years?".

I mean, not EVERYONE who smokes gets lung cancer, right? It's true. But there is a reasonable expectation that if I smoke, I may die from lung cancer.

When did it become acceptable to coddle people for their mistakes? This is my question. We are human, we err. But the truly foolish thing to do would be to continue making the same mistakes when presented with reasons not to do so.

[ShivaX]

I could go with the smartass comment and say to not have someone steal his car :). And I understand the overall point people are making for sure and that at times it takes something like this for people to become more aware of the world around them (which is exactly what happened in my wife and I's case), though it does too feel like there's blame being heaped his way. I think it's also embedded in the point trying to be made. At least that's how it reads to me.

I didn't really get that impression. There was a bit of it from people that don't understand (ie live places that don't insanely fucking cold to the point that your car wont run if you tried it). But ultimately it is one of those really "bad ideas" that people do. To be honest everytime I see it I think about jacking the car and driving it around the block just to give them a wake-up call about what they're doing. Cop cars are especially tempting.

[LongStepMantis]

You're right, you're naive. It's just asinine to leave your car running for twenty minutes and expect nothing to happen. Yeah, sure, in a perfect world it would still be there...but this isn't some utopia. If I leave my iPod on the front stoop of my apartment building, I'm betting it'll get stolen. And you know whose fault that would be? MINE.

I have to agree with this. I don't think we should blame his dad, but think about our current economy and how much much a car is worth. Do you really think someone passing by who is near-destitute won't at least consider stealing it? It's already running, door unlocked, and no one is watching. I agree it sucks that we have to be so protective, but welcome to the 21st century.
People would steal your fillings if you passed out in a remote enough area. Everyone nowadays is looking out for #1, they don't give a shit about you.

[Blue]

I didn't really get that impression. There was a bit of it from people that don't understand (ie live places that don't insanely fucking cold to the point that your car wont run if you tried it). But ultimately it is one of those really "bad ideas" that people do. To be honest everytime I see it I think about jacking the car and driving it around the block just to give them a wake-up call about what they're doing. Cop cars are especially tempting.

My dad used to be a cop and he let me drive his once...it was bliss.

I think we as a society are too afraid to take responsibility for our actions, and this is a prime example. Nobody wants to be called out for essentially fucking up. Let's call a spade a spade, please.

I smoked for almost twenty years- I just quit in December. However, if I started a thread saying "I got lung cancer, it's not fair" I would expect people to ask "well, did you smoke for twenty years?".

I mean, not EVERYONE who smokes gets lung cancer, right? It's true. But there is a reasonable expectation that if I smoke, I may die from lung cancer.

When did it become acceptable to coddle people for their mistakes? This is my question. We are human, we err. But the truly foolish thing to do would be to continue making the same mistakes when presented with reasons not to do so.

There's a difference between you deliberately putting crap into your body and someone forcing crap into it. It's not a matter of coddling someone who walks around doing something damaging rather than someone having something damaging happen to him. There's no distinction between that now either?

[pomeroy]

Nah, you're right. Completely not the person who took it.

I am right. Do you watch/read the news? It's not exactly breaking news to realize that a lot of people are shitty. If you're making it supremely easy for them to steal something, they will do it because it is easy and because they can. Sure, it's their fault, but I'm not going to be stupid enough to make it easy for them.

[Bone]

There's a difference between you deliberately putting crap into your body and someone forcing crap into it. It's not a matter of coddling someone who walks around doing something damaging rather than someone having something damaging happen to him. There's no distinction between that now either?
Really, so me choosing to smoke is dumber than leaving keys in the car? I think they are both poor choices made after assessing and ultimately ignoring the risks.

[LongStepMantis]

If you need a better indication, I was once robbed by a preacher.
You seriously can't trust anyone.

[Blue]

Really, so me choosing to smoke is dumber than leaving keys in the car? I think they are both poor choices made after assessing and ultimately ignoring the risks.

Yes. You're at least doing it to yourself. Someone didn't ruin your health by forcing you to do it (unless you go the peer pressure route). They're definitely both poor choices but there is an absolute difference between you making an effort and actively working towards damaging yourself and someone coming up and doing it to you.

[Blue]

If you need a better indication, I was once robbed by a preacher.
You seriously can't trust anyone.

Maybe the organist?

[Bone]

The tobacco company did it to me. I was minding my own business, smoking.

[Grifter]

Ironically you seem to be the only one dishing out insults at this point...I certainly understand that this is a huge inconvenience for his father and could result in a lot of money coming out of his own pocket but I also recognize that this could have been easily avoided.

I for one respect it when my friends point out that I'm doing something wrong...I see nothing wrong with us pointing out that this was an accident waiting to happen.

I'm not trying to insult any one just calling it how I see it and like I said earlier it's just the way I see some of you acting in this specific incident definitely not a general statement of your character.

This is far more than an inconvenience but based on that comment I am led to think that you have never been robbed or had anything of any value stolen from you or you would realize that. This is not the kids fault, he had nothing to do with it he just wanted someplace to go and vent to help ease the anger and helplessness and that's really all there is too it so I'm sorry if I came off a bit harsh I guess I just expected more from this community.

To say I'm blaming the victim, I think is missing the point. Both victims have the opportunity to assess the known risk and avoid it. My sympathy is there as a human, of course, but if you ignore known risks you can expect to sometimes be the target of these risks.

I don't think anyone is rubbing the guy's face in it, but what is going to happen? His insurance won't cover it, he's going to lose money and lack transportation. How can he avoid such a fate in the future?

I think you and I are on the same page we are just coming at it from a different angle. The shitty thing is most crimes could have been avoided by the victim "if only they had not done this" "or said that" etc etc and in most cases those very thoughts are what's going through their head so the last thing they need is people shoving their face in it and yes when you have just been made a victim every comment to that effect feels like some one is shoving your face in it.

[LongStepMantis]

Maybe the organist?

That bitch was shady. I saw the way she judged all of us from under that blue hair. ;)

[Blue]

The tobacco company did it to me. I was minding my own business, smoking.

*coddle coddle coddle*

[Bone]

I think you and I are on the same page we are just coming at it from a different angle. The shitty thing is most crimes could have been avoided by the victim "if only they had not done this" "or said that" etc etc and in most cases those very thoughts are what's going through their head so the last thing they need is people shoving their face in it and yes when you have just been made a victim every comment to that effect feels like some one is shoving your face in it.

Fair enough. You know I've made a lot of dumb decisions as I said earlier, and most of them, like you said, I knew beforehand were the wrong choice.

And later, I thought, maybe I should listen to my instincts next time. Because that thing I was worried about happening totally just happened.

*coddle coddle coddle*

Ahh yeah... that's the stuff right there.

[ShivaX]

My dad used to be a cop and he let me drive his once...it was bliss.

I just wanted to do it because it was stupid as hell. Oh look a cop car with a shotgun and a bunch of electronics, unlocked and running with noone in sight. I'd just move it around the block, but I bet he'd shit his pants when he came out and it wasn't there.

Only reason I didn't is because with my luck he'd come out just as I was getting in and I'd get shot or end up in prison. That or the cop would call it in and get canned/punished and I'd feel bad about it.
There's a difference between you deliberately putting crap into your body and someone forcing crap into it. It's not a matter of coddling someone who walks around doing something damaging rather than someone having something damaging happen to him. There's no distinction between that now either?
Yeah but theres also a factor of being a smart and rational human being. The reason cars and homes have keys is because you can't trust people. Its shitty that it happened, but he really should have been smarter about it. Its not his fault that it was stolen, but he could have prevented it from ever happening by thinking it through better.

Kinda like if someone sends you a Nigerian email scam. Its ultimately the criminal's fault for stealing your money, but you should have realized that giving out that information was a bad idea in the first place.

[Tron]

Nah, you're right. Completely not the person who took it.

Does the concept of personal responsibility mean anything to you? You're either being willfully stubborn or this concept is just lost on you. If I fail to put on my seatbelt and a drunk driver hits me and I wind up being paralyzed after flying through the windshield it would be a bit naive to solely blame the drunk driver. When people fail to take OBVIOUS precautions against widely recognized dangers they have noone to blame but themselves.

That's just negligence at that point...and in many cases people can be held liable for ignoring dangers and putting others in harms way.

[Johan]

douchewater.

That has potential as a product. :D

The Internet is a harsh mistress. She's beaten the hell out of me many a time, and I've attempted to return the favor.

[Blue]

I just wanted to do it because it was stupid as hell. Oh look a cop car with a shotgun and a bunch of electronics, unlocked and running with noone in sight. I'd just move it around the block, but I bet he'd shit his pants when he came out and it wasn't there.

Only reason I didn't is because with my luck he'd come out just as I was getting in and I'd get shot or end up in prison. That or the cop would call it in and get canned/punished and I'd feel bad about it.

Were my Dad still alive I'd try and hook you up. He made me get out when I started using the radio and flashing lights, so you may have only gotten a minute or so in there.

Yeah but theres also a factor of being a smart and rational human being. The reason cars and homes have keys is because you can't trust people. Its shitty that it happened, but he really should have been smarter about it. Its not his fault that it was stolen, but he could have prevented it from ever happening by thinking it through better.

Kinda like if someone sends you a Nigerian email scam. Its ultimately the criminal's fault for stealing your money, but you should have realized that giving out that information was a bad idea in the first place.

I don't disagree that people should be more conscious of their surroundings just that they don't need to get crapped on when it happens. Like Grifter said, there does seem to be a large case of "well, you really should done X" when ever something like this crops up be it here, on the news, whatever and that doesn't help the situation.

My old manager got beaten because he was wearing a gay pride t-shirt. In no way do I blame him for wearing it but rather the dude who did the beating but, low and behold, someone said that he shouldn't have been wearing it in that neighborhood.

[rifter]

I have to agree with blue. While leaving the keys in the car, running, may NOT have been the best idea... I have done it, and I know a lot of people that do it. You have a certain expectation in society that your shit will NOT be stolen. That is why there are laws, to reinforce this expectation. There is a little responsiblity on the car owner's part here... but ultimately, the thief is the one that did the deed. The theif is the one that is REALLY at fault.

As for Tron's example, a collision, even including a drunk driver, is an accident. You don't have someone accidently STEAL a car. It is like comparing apples and Kumquats.

[biosc1]

Suddenly remembered that we had a rash of these crimes in a suburb of Greater Vancouver...a place called Surrey. That city is actually the car theft capitol of North America (http://www.google.ca/search?q=car+theft+capitol+of+north+america&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)...occasionally switching spots with Miami...

As for the idling law...there is also a law in Vancouver city that you can't idle. Have yet to see anyone ticketed for it, but there are signs everywhere.

[ShivaX]

As for the idling law...there is also a law in Vancouver city that you can't idle. Have yet to see anyone ticketed for it, but there are signs everywhere.

I think thats actually a fairly universal law. Its the law in Iowa, but like you said its never enforced (which actually adds to the reason that police cruisers are so high on my list). I think it has to do with vehicles left idling and then rolling into things. Probably not a common issue, but all it takes is one truck that slips into gear or whatever and rolls down the street.

[Grifter]

Fair enough. You know I've made a lot of dumb decisions as I said earlier, and most of them, like you said, I knew beforehand were the wrong choice.

And later, I thought, maybe I should listen to my instincts next time. Because that thing I was worried about happening totally just happened.

Totally, but in that case (depending on the severity) did you really want to hear your friends calling you stupid or saying it was your fault? Especially considering you already knew it and had paid the price. Now imagine you had a son and it was your sons friends telling him how it was your fault and you were stupid. True? maybe depending on the situation but definitely not necessary.

[Tron]

You have a certain expectation in society that your shit will NOT be stolen. That is why there are laws, to reinforce this expectation. .

The fact that we have a law against something simply means that this behavior exists and we've decided to punish people who engage in it.

That law doesn't prevent theft at all though...hence why we've had laws against theft for ever yet we still live in a world with locks, keys, vaults, armed guards, etc.

There's a reason I keep my money in a secure bank that is insured by the government and not in a box on my porch.

If I came in here telling everyone that my life savings had been jacked from my doorstep I'm fairily certain I would be getting shit for it. :p

[Disgustipated]

Wouldn't let my car idle like that, idling for 7~ seconds wastes around as much gas as starting the car does, so imagine how much is wasted for 10-20 mins of idling!

Just drive it until it warms up.

Also, definitely change your locks. It's cheap to do so and doesn't take that much time. Getting all of your shit stolen isn't cheap, though.

[pomeroy]

Whatever guys. I'll just not make it easy for people to steal my shit. You can make it easy for them. In the end, you'll be blaming the person who took your stuff and I'll still have my stuff.

[ShivaX]

Wouldn't let my car idle like that, idling for 7~ seconds wastes around as much gas as starting the car does, so imagine how much is wasted for 10-20 mins of idling!

Just drive it until it warms up.

Also, definitely change your locks. It's cheap to do so and doesn't take that much time. Getting all of your shit stolen isn't cheap, though.

Location: SoCal

Whens the last time it got to -20F there? I don't think they had cars during that Ice Age.

Rest assured your car shaking like a jackhammer and dying every couple feet isn't great on gas mileage.

[Tron]

As for Tron's example, a collision, even including a drunk driver, is an accident. You don't have someone accidently STEAL a car. It is like comparing apples and Kumquats.

Drunk driving is illegal just like theft...it is a criminal act because it's a scientific fact that it impairs your judgment...much like the judgement of your common thief. The analogy is spot on because much like drunk drivers we also know that we live in a world of thieves and we should protect ourselves from them just like how we put on our seat belts and buy cars with airbags.

The analogy is dead on...if you live in a world with KNOWN dangers you only have yourself to blame if you don't take the necessary and obvious measures to protect yourself.

You wear a seat belt to protect yourself from accidents and drunk drivers

You put your money in a bank

You lock your doors

Your use passwords

If you choose not to do any of the above you only have yourself to blame.

[Blue]

Does the concept of personal responsibility mean anything to you? You're either being willfully stubborn or this concept is just lost on you. If I fail to put on my seatbelt and a drunk driver hits me and I wind up being paralyzed after flying through the windshield it would be a bit naive to solely blame the drunk driver. When people fail to take OBVIOUS precautions against widely recognized dangers they have noone to blame but themselves.

That's just negligence at that point...and in many cases people can be held liable for ignoring dangers and putting others in harms way.

The bolded is my sticking point. I'm not disagreeing with personal responsibility, simply the constant "well, they had it coming" attitude that seems to be so prevalent in this thread.

[Bingley Joe]

It's illegal? Is that all of Toronto or just the part you live in? I'm just curious as I'd never heard of laws against this. I wonder if Ottawa has regulations like that; I've not had a car since I moved here.

Yup -- there has been an idling control bylaw (http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/onstreet/idling_draft.htm) in effect in Toronto (the whole city) since 1996:

No person shall cause or permit a vehicle or boat to idle for more than three (3) minutes in a sixty-minute period within the City's boundaries.

I don't think it's enforced all that often, nor do I think many people actually know about it, but it's there. Ottawa's bylaw (http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/bylaw/a_z/idling_en.html) took a lot longer to get passed, but you guys have had the same thing in effect since 2007.

Where I'm from (northern Ontario), it's a matter of course that you idle your car 10-20 minutes, but there's also not a real issue with theft, what with the low population density. Also, it's -40 there right now. God.

It takes a lot longer than a minute or two to warm an engine and when it's cold out if I don't let my car warm up for at least 6 min. it will stall and die at all the stop signs and or red lights for the next 10min so unfortunately there are some of us who don't have much of a choice. Thankfully my car is in a garage but there are a lot of people who don't have that option.

That's what a block heater is for though, and it's not uncommon in many rural parts of Canada to have outlets installed in the driveway just for running them. I've been to a couple of bars in Manitoba that provide power for their customers as well.

Seriously -- idling your car to 'warm it up' is NOT the best way to achieve what people think they're achieving. It burns way more fuel than is necessary, and ONLY warms up the engine and interior; the wheel-bearings, suspension, steering, transmission and tires are all still stone cold, and will only warm up when you actually drive the car.

Natural Resources Canada and Environment Canada have conducted all kinds of studies into this in the hopes of weening people off of their cold-weather idling habits, and idling in general. They have a ton of great info about idling (http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/transportation/personal/idling.cfm)at their website. Here's the section on vehicle warm up specifically. (http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/transportation/idling/warm-up.cfm?attr=8)

[Blue]

Whatever guys. I'll just not make it easy for people to steal my shit. You can make it easy for them. In the end, you'll be blaming the person who took your stuff and I'll still have my stuff.

Until you get your stuff stolen and then we blame you for it.

[Tron]

The bolded is my sticking point. I'm not disagreeing with personal responsibility, simply the constant "well, they had it coming" attitude that seems to be so prevalent in this thread.

I guess I'm more of the "why are you surprised this happened when your car has door locks, etc?".

Don't people know by now that we live in a world with people who will lie, cheat and steal? Do some people think that door locks are installed to slow you down or to simply test your ability to rummage through your pockets?

[pomeroy]

Until you get your stuff stolen and then we blame you for it.

Well...I don't think you'll be able to. Because I do everything in my power to prevent that. You know...like locking my doors. Not leaving my car running. That's the reason you're getting an unsympathetic audience here. I don't feel bad when someone who doesn't use birth control has an unwanted pregnancy because they are willfully engaging in risky behavior. Leaving the car running, not wearing a condom...in the end, you'll just have to pay for it.

[Blue]

I guess I'm more of the "why are you surprised this happened when your car has door locks, etc?".

Don't people know by now that we live in a world with people who will lie, cheat and steal? Do some people think that door locks are installed to slow you down or to simply test your ability to rummage through your pockets?

Like I said, I don't not understand where people in that camp are coming from just that I disagree with siding myself against the victim is all. And honestly, I still am under the assumption that my stuff is and should be safe nor do I expect someone to ever come busting into my house. It's happened before to me and I still go to bed, go to work, live life as though crap like that isn't going to happen. This coming from someone who's OCD and a hypochondriac.

[Blue]

Well...I don't think you'll be able to. Because I do everything in my power to prevent that. You know...like locking my doors. Not leaving my car running. That's the reason you're getting an unsympathetic audience here. I don't feel bad when someone who doesn't use birth control has an unwanted pregnancy because they are willfully engaging in risky behavior. Leaving the car running, not wearing a condom...in the end, you'll just have to pay for it.

Which is fine. But my doors were locked when our door was kicked in and our stuff was taken. The cops asked if we had an alarm and I said no and got the "well, you should have" response. Which was helpful.

[pomeroy]

Which is fine. But my doors were locked when our door was kicked in and our stuff was taken. The cops asked if we had an alarm and I said no and got the "well, you should have" response. Which was helpful.

See, you lock your doors and your shit still gets stolen? I definitely feel for you there.

But that hasn't been the point of this thread.

[Blue]

See, you lock your doors and your shit still gets stolen? I definitely feel for you there.

But that hasn't been the point of this thread.

I think the point of this thread was to say that his dad got his car stolen, not to have people give him grief for it.

[pomeroy]

I think the point of this thread was to say that his dad got his car stolen, not to have people give him grief for it.

The people who post on this site don't take kindly to stupidity.

*shrugs*

[Blue]

The people who post on this site don't take kindly to stupidity.

*shrugs*

Or the people on this site should think outside of themselves just a little bit and not have a smarter-than-you attitude.

*shrugs*

[Bone]

I think the people on this site are a smart, if sometimes intolerant crew of people and while they wish the OP's dad well, they would like to point out that his loss was entirely avoidable so that next time he won't do the same thing.

Or something.

[pomeroy]

I think the people on this site are a smart, if sometimes intolerant crew of people and while they wish the OP's dad well, they would like to point out that his loss was entirely avoidable so that next time he won't do the same thing.

Or something.

This sums it up nicely. And if you're calling me intolerant, Bone, we're in a fight.

[Blue]

Fisticuffs!

[Bone]

I would fight you, but the ol' lung is hurting something fierce.

[Disgustipated]

I would fight you, but the ol' lung is hurting something fierce.

Mayhaps you have some douchewater in yonder lung.

[Bone]

If so, then I have only myself to blame.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

I live in a pretty safe area, but every person on the block does this. I don't think I could bring myself to drive around slowly waiting for the car to warm up when it's -20 degrees out. I do realize there are measures you can take to prevent theft, I'm just defending us idlers.

[Tron]

I live in a pretty safe area, but every person on the block does this. I don't think I could bring myself to drive around slowly waiting for the car to warm up when it's -20 degrees out. I do realize there are measures you can take to prevent theft, I'm just defending us idlers.

I don't think the problem is that he let it idle...the problem is that he let it idle without anyone watching it and without the doors locked....big difference if you ask me.

[Hexxagonal]

Location: Cold Minnesota

Sorry to hear about that divine. Hopefully your dad will get it back in good shape.

To everyone else... I just want to point out what others are saying... you shouldn't warm up your car. Modern cars don't need it. You're just hurting the environment and your pocket.

[divinechaos]

Thanks a lot for the comments, both positive and otherwise.

I get what most of you are saying, that he "had it coming." I never agreed with my parents doing that and they often got mad at ME for not doing it. But only because they were naive doesn't mean that this sucks any less. My dad is one of the most honest people in the world, I mean, he was warming the car up because he works about 30 minutes away and he works outside, where the is no heat. I'm fuckin' pissed. I already told me mom to get new lock for every key that was with the car keys. I'm paranoid about leaving my little brother alone... I've never felt like this.

The insurance most likely will not cover it because of the fact that the car was unlocked and it was "ready to be stolen." Sucks so much but at least my family is *physically* safe. Again, thanks for all the comments.

[Tron]

The insurance most likely will not cover it because of the fact that the car was unlocked and it was "ready to be stolen." Sucks so much but at least my family is *physically* safe. Again, thanks for all the comments.

The insurance company doesn't need to know every little detail! ;)

[Kelegacy]

Location: Cold Minnesota

Sorry to hear about that divine. Hopefully your dad will get it back in good shape.

To everyone else... I just want to point out what others are saying... you shouldn't warm up your car. Modern cars don't need it. You're just hurting the environment and your pocket.

I think some people heat their cars up to SEE. You can scrape your windshield of frost and ice, but with our car if we don't have the defrost going at start-up, the windshield can become condensed or cloudy on the inside--probably because our breath is warm, our bodies are, but the inside of the car is cold? It's a 2006, so it's "modern". Short of wiping my hand across the glass, a warmed-up car with the defrost/heat going helps out a TON. I've had to pull over before after a cold start.

We'll still continue to warm up the car for a few minutes, because it definitely DOES make the drive less clunky. In the dead of winter, doing a cold start and driving off makes the car feel like it's dragging a horse or something. All my cars have felt like this. I always felt like I was doing a disservice to the vehicle by doing that.

Now, if you leave it going for a half hour, that's ridiculous. But a few minutes seems to at least wake up the car a bit. It's not just the heat, because we all know a heater starts working better when it's not idling, plus we have jackets in the winter, but for all around performance.

I could be and probably am wrong, but that's just from my experience in living in a cold winter state.

[Inspector Fowler]

I take a lot of reports like this. Usually not for cars. Usually for iPods and laptops. "I just left it for a minute."

I take the report. I hate the thief. But I don't feel sympathy for the victim. I do everything I can to get their stuff back. But I don't feel sympathy for people who make it easy for thieves.

[Squidbot]

Fisticuffs!

That's my line!

[biosc1]

I think the moral of this story is that one should always keep a baseball bat by the front door if you idle your car to let it warm up while you're not watching it. For all these cars that get stolen in these circumstances, there must be times when someone opens their door and sees some thief walking halfway up their driveway approaching the car...

[Church42]

It's obvious most of the people acting like self righteous twats in this thread have never lived any where cold (most of you seem to be from Texas) so before you start getting all high and mighty why don't you talk to the millions of people who have to go to work in temps below 30 F who like to warm their cars (some have to to even keep them running) in the morning.

I've lived all my life in Wisconsin and have suffered 28 years of brutally cold winters...I'm not stupid enough to invite thieves to take my car if I left it idling for any longer than 3 minutes unattended.

Will I leave my car idling? Sure, but I'm right outside the car scraping off ice and brushing off snow or inside waiting for the defroster to achieve full efficiency.

Whole thing could've really been avoided if people, you know, layered their clothing.

[Johan]

I think the moral of this story is...

that everyone needs a pit bull in their car, while it warms up. A rabid one.

[Church42]

And divine, sorry to hear about the car though. Important life lesson learned and glad to know its something you don't approve of doing.

20 minutes though...that's still just mindblowing to me...I can understand 5 minutes at the max

[Bingley Joe]

that everyone needs a pit bull in their car, while it warms up. A rabid one.

Trunk Monkey!!!

geynA-JYDHE

[Ghost Rider]

I take a lot of reports like this. Usually not for cars. Usually for iPods and laptops. "I just left it for a minute."

I take the report. I hate the thief. But I don't feel sympathy for the victim. I do everything I can to get their stuff back. But I don't feel sympathy for people who make it easy for thieves.

I still feel sympathy for the victim if it's just being ignorant. We can all be ignorant sometimes.

[Talanvor]

I have a neighbor that idles the car for ~30 minutes before she drives anywhere (and this is Texas so...), with her fairly new Charger no less. I can't imagine how much she blows through on gas doing that.

Sorry to hear about losing your car, I'm hoping your Dad had full coverage?

[Inspector Fowler]

I still feel sympathy for the victim if it's just being ignorant. We can all be ignorant sometimes.

This is true. But let me lay it out:

You're in the library. There are, oh, 25-30 people in sight. You know none of them. At any given time on most days, at least 3 of them are homeless guys (don't think I'm joking here). You leave your laptop and go meet a friend in a different part of the (very large) library. You return 15 minutes later and you're shocked somebody took it?

This just encourages people to steal things. People see how easy it was, and how hard it is to catch the thief in these cases. We have more bikes and computers stolen than I can count, and it's often because the victim makes it very easy.

I can see being ignorant about a lot of things. But leaving your stuff unattended anywhere just doesn't tug on my heart strings. I can understand when somebody accidentally leaves something- it slipped out of a backpack, you forgot your iPod was charging in the computer's USB port or something. But to just walk away and leave it there knowing nobody is keeping it safe? I don't feel any sympathy for that.