Troubleshooting: Am I on the right track?

[biosc1]

Okay...my story:

I bought a new motherboard and a new chip. The idea was to upgrade the chip in my main desktop and build a secondary desktop for my girlfriend with spare parts.

New parts:

Gigabyte DS3L motherboard
E8400 CPU
2 x 2GB 1066 OCZ RAM
640GB WD Hdd

I slapped the new E8400 into my desktop, replacing the E6750 that was in there. Of course, it didn't work right away because I forgot to update the drivers on my ASUS P5K Deluxe board. So, out came the E8400 and back in went the E6750, upgraded the bios and swapped the E8400 back in again. Now that all works. I swapped out my old RAM (4 x 1GB DDR2 800's) and replaced that with the slightly faster RAM that was newly purchased.

So...the secondary computer looks like this:

Gigabyte DS3L mobo
E8400 CPU
4 x 1GB 800 OCZ RAM
eVGA 8800GT 512 MB
640GB WD hdd

Pretty simple, right? Of course, it doesn't want to work. Just powers up and then does nothing. No beeps, no post, no bios. I've cleared the CMOS...popped out the battery, removed everything but 1 stick of RAM and the CPU...

Other info:

This is my first time using thermal paste. I was moving one CPU to another PC, so I needed to remove and apply paste. I bought Arctic MX-2 (non-conductive) and Arctic's "removal package" (alcohol + purifier). I did a lot of applying and re-applying and it all seemed to work out well, according to the temps I ran on my main desktop.

I bought an Antec Three Hundred Case for the second desktop...and I must say this case is pretty poor when it comes to motherboard attachment points. The DS3L is essentially left unsupported in the middle due to a complete lack of matching holes (either a quirk of the mobo or the case).

My deductions as to why the secondary desktop build isn't working:


CPU is dead
- Worked fine when swapped in and out of my main desktop, but I did have a lot of trouble getting the heatsink on top of it on the Gigabyte board due to the lack of proper support from underneath. I used pressure, but I don't think I used enough to cause damage.

Video card is dead
- I doubt it. Worked fine before and has been sitting in the closet for the last month or so in proper packaging.

RAM disagrees with the motherboard.
- Could be?

PSU is faulty
- Seriously doubt this...only a few months old, Corsair brand.

Motherboard is borked.
- Could be?


So, my options for tonight are:


Check that it's not the RAM by swapping in a stick from my main desktop.
Check that the video card works by swapping it into my main desktop.
Re-seat the CPU. I going to avoid trying to re-seat the Arctic Cooler 7 that I have because I am sick of trying to seat that bad boy onto there.


Now, after this long wall of text, my main questions concern how to properly test out a motherboard.

Questions:

I know a lot of people take it out of it's case and lay it on the desk to test...what material should i lay it on? The anti-static bag or is a cardboard box fine?
Is there any sure fire way to check if a motherboard is borked?
Can a poor application of thermal paste cause these sort of issues?

[Jboy001]

I notice you use the same mobo for both builds, does the 2nd mobo have the latest bios, did you try e6750 in it to see if it boots with that?

[fitbabits]

1. I would avoid removing the mobo from the case unless you're absolutely sure it's to blame. Try other things first. If you do decide to remove the mobo, placing it on a hard, flat, non-conductive surface should suffice. Make sure there's no beer or any other liquids nearby.

2. The only real way to test a motherboard for life is with a known-working CPU. Conversely, the only way to check the life of a CPU is with a known-working motherboard. It's somewhat of a catch-22 situation. Are you able to tell if the mobo is getting power (there should be a green light)?

3. Yes, absolutely. Thermal paste should not be liberally applied, nor should it be sparingly applied. Somewhere in-between is key.

Now, let's look at your RAM. Remove it all and test one stick at a time. You may have either a faulty RAM module or RAM socket.

[biosc1]

I notice you use the same mobo for both builds, does the 2nd mobo have the latest bios, did you try e6750 in it to see if it boots with that?

Sorry...I may have been confusing.

Main desktop (my baby) is an ASUS P5K Deluxe. No issues with it.

Main issue is with Gigabyte P45 DS3L

1. I would avoid removing the mobo from the case unless you're absolutely sure it's to blame. Try other things first. If you do decide to remove the mobo, placing it on a hard, flat, non-conductive surface should suffice. Make sure there's no beer or any other liquids nearby.


No beer nearby?...could be an issue ;) I've never really been a fan of running a board outside of a case.


2. The only real way to test a motherboard for life is with a known-working CPU. Conversely, the only way to check the life of a CPU is with a known-working motherboard. It's somewhat of a catch-22 situation. Are you able to tell if the mobo is getting power (there should be a green light)?


CPU does work on another board...though, it may no longer work if I screwed something up in the last transplant. :( I'll check that tonight.



3. Yes, absolutely. Thermal paste should not be liberally applied, nor should it be sparingly applied. Somewhere in-between is key.


Seemed to apply it like i did on my other chip. I will clean it off tonight and run it with the stock cooler and the stock paste on that cooler.


Now, let's look at your RAM. Remove it all and test one stick at a time. You may have either a faulty RAM module or RAM socket.

I'm starting to wonder now if it's a RAM thing...

Other than that, I keep reading that I am supposed to look for a "short" somewhere on the board. How am I supposed to find a short circuit? Seems like I'm looking for a needle in a haystack in that situation?

[Jboy001]

I had a short one time below the mobo, an extra screw mount/ case offset was present that didn't line up with the holes and I missed it, might look for that too.

Sorry about my first response I looked and it said new parts e8400 and ds3l and then secondary pc e8400 ds3l

good luck.

[biosc1]

I had a short one time below the mobo, an extra screw mount/ case offset was present that didn't line up with the holes and I missed it, might look for that too.

Sorry about my first response I looked and it said new parts e8400 and ds3l and then secondary pc e8400 ds3l

good luck.

Hmm...could be...this Antec Three Hundred case and the Gigabyte board are definitely not on the same page when it comes to mounts and holes...

I'm going to check for an extra mount tonight for sure.

[Stmfuller]

My deductions as to why the secondary desktop build isn't working:


CPU is dead
- Worked fine when swapped in and out of my main desktop, but I did have a lot of trouble getting the heatsink on top of it on the Gigabyte board due to the lack of proper support from underneath. I used pressure, but I don't think I used enough to cause damage. this could be, test it with a know working mobo and see what happens.

Video card is dead
- I doubt it. Worked fine before and has been sitting in the closet for the last month or so in proper packaging.
You should get a mobo beep if this was happening. Since you aren't that's probably not it
RAM disagrees with the motherboard.
- Could be?
very possible. try and boot with each stick individually
PSU is faulty
- Seriously doubt this...only a few months old, Corsair brand.
well, it could happen...have you tried switching it for a know usable one?
Motherboard is borked.
- Could be?


it's possible, you could have sparked it somehow.



Questions:

I know a lot of people take it out of it's case and lay it on the desk to test...what material should i lay it on? The anti-static bag or is a cardboard box fine?
Is there any sure fire way to check if a motherboard is borked?
Can a poor application of thermal paste cause these sort of issues?


If you're going to pull it out, lay it on the cardboard. And if you're going to go this far with it, pull everything and reseat it all testing with each new addition. when it stops trying to post, there's your problem. Oh, and make sure your application of the thermal paste was clean and as thin as possible. Check to see if you've got any on your mobo anywhere, that could be shorting stuff out.

[biosc1]

If you're going to pull it out, lay it on the cardboard. And if you're going to go this far with it, pull everything and reseat it all testing with each new addition. when it stops trying to post, there's your problem. Oh, and make sure your application of the thermal paste was clean and as thin as possible. Check to see if you've got any on your mobo anywhere, that could be shorting stuff out.

Supposed to be non-conductive paste, but that could be the issue. I'm starting to think I got a little sloppy in the end...after being annoyed with the bios on my main desktop and then just wanting to get the chip into the Gigabyte that night...

All the parts seem to work. All the fans spin up nicely...the motherboard lights up...

When I put the E8400 into my main desktop and it failed to find it, it jammed up on the post screen, but at least I got video output. This one isn't even getting that far, which is why I'm thinking it's something other than the CPU installation.

Wouldn't a motherboard at least POST with bad RAM?

[fitbabits]

Wouldn't a motherboard at least POST with bad RAM?
Nope, it wouldn't necessarily.

[biosc1]

Hmm...more Googling has revealed that there is no on-board speaker on this motherboard :(

Sooooo...this may make my life easier when I hook up a speaker set tonight to the board :)

Thanks for all the help so far guys...it really helps me to get ideas or at least jog my memory on what to do.

[Stmfuller]

When I put the E8400 into my main desktop and it failed to find it, it jammed up on the post screen, but at least I got video output. This one isn't even getting that far, which is why I'm thinking it's something other than the CPU installation.

Wouldn't a motherboard at least POST with bad RAM?
yeah, the fail to go past post on that could be something as simple as a configuration issue on that other mobo.
I'm starting to lean to RAM honestly.
can you try the ram on another computer?

[biosc1]

yeah, the fail to go past post on that could be something as simple as a configuration issue on that other mobo.
I'm starting to lean to RAM honestly.
can you try the ram on another computer?

Yah...the RAM works fine on another computer, but I'll try swapping sticks between the 2 and see.

I'm just thankful I have enough spare parts to give this a serious troubleshooting effort...though I may have to yank a CPU out of one of the work computers for a night ;)

[Rogue_hunter]

My first DS3L had a faulty RAM channel, but the system would start. And yes, the motherboard doesn't have the onboard speaker for POST beeps. But the BIOS has a backup that is easy enough to boot from incase your settings were wrong.

[biosc1]

Well, I am glad that I get express RMA with NCIX, so I can return the board without hassle if that ends up being the issue.

[biosc1]

Resolution.

The RAM disagreed with the Gigabyte board.

It's odd...the OCZ Platinum 800MHz DDR2 works fine in my ASUS P5K board (main desktop), but doesn't work in the Gigabyte board. So, I put the OCZ Platinum 1066MHz in the Gigabyte and it fired up right away.

Now, I'm sure I can tweak the bios on the Gigabyte to accept the slower clocked RAM, but I just can't be bothered...I doubt I'll notice the speed difference anyways ;)

Thanks again for all your help. I had not even thought about the RAM because it worked fine in the other board...lesson learned.

[fitbabits]

Resolution.

The RAM disagreed with the Gigabyte board.

It's odd...the OCZ Platinum 800MHz DDR2 works fine in my ASUS P5K board (main desktop), but doesn't work in the Gigabyte board. So, I put the OCZ Platinum 1066MHz in the Gigabyte and it fired up right away.

Now, I'm sure I can tweak the bios on the Gigabyte to accept the slower clocked RAM, but I just can't be bothered...I doubt I'll notice the speed difference anyways ;)

Thanks again for all your help. I had not even thought about the RAM because it worked fine in the other board...lesson learned.
Awesome news! I'm so glad it was the RAM and not something more nefarious.

(Also, I called it! Go me...) :)

[biosc1]

Installing Vista now...we'll see...fingers crossed...should have just installed Windows 7, but this will be my gf's computer...so the less troubleshooting I end up doing, the better :)

I suggest that we consider Fitbabits the "go-to" man in regards to any and all computer problems...perhaps get his phone number out on the internet ;)

[Stmfuller]

Awesome news! I'm so glad it was the RAM and not something more nefarious.

(Also, I called it! Go me...) :)

damn, just a little behind. :(
anyway...go fits!

[biosc1]

Awww...you helped as well...

<group hug> ;)