Angband

[Wraitheist]

Any of you play this? I go in spurts, but I've spent hundreds of hours dying to the RNG. Truly a masterpiece.

[Trogdor]

There are a number of games like this that I've always meant to play. Lately it's been Dwarf Fortress, before that it was NetHack, etc.

I've never been able to motivate myself to work through the learning curve involved though, especially with all of the other good games out there that I already know I'll be able to just pick up and play. One of these days maybe...

[Alkanos]

I prefer Linley's Crawl myself. Actually, I really like the Stone Soup variant. I play it every day or so, and if it gets really dead in at work I boot it up, and the hours fly by.

I've given up on DF, got tired of waiting for the guy to do what would be a trivial amount of coding (compared to the rest he's done) to add proper tile support to the game. (One tile per object rather than having to alter the font) I have massive amounts of respect for Toady for making an amazing world generator, and I also understand that it's his game, he can code it however (and in whatever order) he wants. But I also don't have to play it if I don't want to! :p

[Panthera]

Tile support? Doesn't it already have that?

[Vyzov]

Tile support? Doesn't it already have that?

There are downloadable tilesets for Dwarf Fortress. I'm pretty sure all the people who play it here use it.

[Panthera]

Yeah, I use mayday's myself. I'm wondering if he means something else, because that would be silly.

http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/df.htm in case that really is what Alkanos means.

[Alkanos]

Ahh, you're right, it sorta does have tile support. But if an item uses a letter, any time the letter is used, it uses the tile. So a dwarf named Urist Boatlover ends up having levers and other odd items in his name. I was more referring to proper tile support (a designated tile for every item) rather than the makeshift one that's available now.

I know it's not a priority, and I respect that. But it's why I'm waiting a bit longer before I play it again, that's all.

[Panthera]

Nope, that's not accurate anymore either. Mayday's has individual monster-type art with minimal overlap for letters.

[Alkanos]

They fixed it? Maybe I'll take a peek again then! :) Thanks!

[Panthera]

No problem. You have no excuse now. ;)

[J Arcane]

I prefer Linley's Crawl myself. Actually, I really like the Stone Soup variant. I play it every day or so, and if it gets really dead in at work I boot it up, and the hours fly by.

I've given up on DF, got tired of waiting for the guy to do what would be a trivial amount of coding (compared to the rest he's done) to add proper tile support to the game. (One tile per object rather than having to alter the font) I have massive amounts of respect for Toady for making an amazing world generator, and I also understand that it's his game, he can code it however (and in whatever order) he wants. But I also don't have to play it if I don't want to! :p
Toady just needs to stop playing the Derek Smart act and let people actually help him with the game.

I'm fascinated by the game's capabilities, but the interface and presentation makes the average Roguelike look like a Wii game.

Personally, I'm getting my RL fix from Shiren at the moment. I played some Stone Soup for a while though, and back in the day I played shit tons of Rogue and pMoria.

[jpublic]

Angband is one of my favorite dungeon crawlers. I suppose I could play it at work again now that I'm not stuck on laptop KB.

However, I always found it annoying how the Moria/Angband set are massively weighted to give Rangers/Mages/Rogues an advantage.

Maybe I should try Dwarf Fortress.

Edit: I may also be the only person in creation who hates Tilesets.

[biosc1]

Toady just needs to stop playing the <EDITED FOR OUR SAFETY> act and let people actually help him with the game.


Darn it J Arcane, don't invoke that name on message boards...

...he's been known to jump on forums and defend himself vigorously, bringing the forum down in a flame of his own vitriol and ego...

You've cursed us!

You've cursed us alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllllllllllllll :eek:

[Superman's Dead]

I love the T.O.M.E. Angband variant because of how specific it is to the Lord of the Rings world. I've never gotten past the second dungeon in something like 5 years but I can't stop playing the game.

[Wraitheist]

Angband is one of my favorite dungeon crawlers. I suppose I could play it at work again now that I'm not stuck on laptop KB.

However, I always found it annoying how the Moria/Angband set are massively weighted to give Rangers/Mages/Rogues an advantage.

Maybe I should try Dwarf Fortress.

Edit: I may also be the only person in creation who hates Tilesets.

I think Priests are very powerful in Angband...by far my favorite class. It does take 10 levels or so before they start to shine. I know that mages are very popular, but I never get very far with them. I haven't spent much time with the Rogue. Rangers are definitely one of, if not the, most powerful class. Bows are soo good in Angband.

[SilentScreams]

I'm a big fan of ADOM and Stone Soup.
I've never tried Dwarf Fortress in adventure mode. I always play fortress mode.

[jpublic]

Note: This information may be not quite correct, it's been at least 2 years since I last played.

Well, for me, the reason I always felt the Ran/Mag/Rog were so damn powerful was for their access to the Identify Spell. Nothing made life easier for me than knowing exactly when I picked up some item whether it was good or not. They also had some of the handiest utility and damage spells ever. This was especially true for the Rogue, who had a large portion of the Mage magic list, got them at fairly low levels, and had decent if not great melee skills. While the Ranger had far better melee and ranged skills, he took a *long* time to get the fun stuff.

With a Priest, most of your spells gave you far less specific information, and the spells were more geared to utility or so bloody overkill to be useless.

[Wraitheist]

Yeah, Ranger ID is a major pain. I'll have to give the Rogue another go...his fairly poor melee/ranged ability turned me off initially. He actually has the lower melee ability than Warrior/Ranger/Paladin. I see where you are coming from with the ID thing, but once I get past the first hour or so of the game and I have some money, ID scrolls are so cheap that it isn't a big concern for me.

The thing that makes the priest great is the Orb that you get at 9 or 11, i forget which. That thing is so powerful, it almost isn't fair. It does good damage in an AREA and it does DOUBLE damage to evil characters. Nasty. Plus, it destroys cursed items on the floor that helps with the Priests ID problems. His early detect evil spell isn't as handy as the mage version, though he does get a better one later on. All in all, it takes 10+ levels for him to come into his own.

On a different note, I just started playing Linley's Dungeon Crawl on the suggestion of some GoGers. I'm still trying to get my bearings...I keep dying on level 2 or 3, lol.

[Wraitheist]

A new "beta" for Angband has been released, if anyone is interested. It introduces a lot of new, somewhat controversial changes.

[jpublic]

Got a link?

[Wraitheist]

Got a link?

Here's a link to the announcement thread. It contains the changelog and links to the new downloads: http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=1235

[Lekon]

I usually prefer Stone Soup (The Lindsey variant) And it was just updated as well.


Also on that note there's now some games using good ol Nethack style difficulty/randomness in all new ways.

Our current fave in IRC: SPELUNKY!

[Wraitheist]

I usually prefer Stone Soup (The Lindsey variant) And it was just updated as well.


Also on that note there's now some games using good ol Nethack style difficulty/randomness in all new ways.

Our current fave in IRC: SPELUNKY!

I just started playing Linley's Dungeon Crawl and I'm having trouble getting the hang of it...any suggestions? I've been playing Angband for a long time and the idea there is to dive fairly quicly and avoid monsters when possible. I'm thinking that Linley's is more about clearing levels and going slowly? Should I just go directly to Stone Soup, in your opinion?

Thanks for the recommendation on Spelunky, that looks great! What are these other games that you are referring to?

[Lekon]

I just started playing Linley's Dungeon Crawl and I'm having trouble getting the hang of it...any suggestions? I've been playing Angband for a long time and the idea there is to dive fairly quicly and avoid monsters when possible. I'm thinking that Linley's is more about clearing levels and going slowly? Should I just go directly to Stone Soup, in your opinion?

Thanks for the recommendation on Spelunky, that looks great! What are these other games that you are referring to?

Stone Soup IS Lindsey's Dungeon Crawl. Its just wha thappened after Lind quit, A team took over and they keep updating it. I'd highly reccomend skipping right to it. Its also got a nice "Tiles" graphic set that cleans up the interface quite a bit.

[Wraitheist]

Stone Soup IS Lindsey's Dungeon Crawl. Its just wha thappened after Lind quit, A team took over and they keep updating it. I'd highly reccomend skipping right to it. Its also got a nice "Tiles" graphic set that cleans up the interface quite a bit.

Oh, ok. I thought it was just a variant, like TOME is to Angband.

[jpublic]

I tried ToME and I just couldn't get into it. I like the simplicity (ha!) of Angband.

Here's a question - how do you guys handle the save game backup issue? Do you have a batch file you run to backup or what?

I've been running two different batch files - at the start of each game, it copies my save to a backup. If I die, I run another batch that copies the backup back to the save.

[Alkanos]

Here's a question - how do you guys handle the save game backup issue? Do you have a batch file you run to backup or what?

I've been running two different batch files - at the start of each game, it copies my save to a backup. If I die, I run another batch that copies the backup back to the save.Me no use Save-scumming. Me über! :D Actually, not really. I haven't even ascended a single character yet.

I was bored one day and made up a single batch file that prompts you whether you want to backup a save or restore a backup before playing the game. I just plopped it into the same folder as the exe and made a shortcut to the batch on the desktop. Mine's for Stone Soup though, dunno what the save folders for Andband/ToME look like.

If you want to take a peek, I'll throw the code for it in spoilers.
Just paste it into notepad and save it as a .bat file. Then drop it in whatever directory crawl.exe is in. And make sure there's a backup folder in the same folder as the file, otherwise it gets bitchy.ECHO OFF

REM Prompts the user as to what action to take
SET /P Choice=[Do you want to save a backup? (y/n)]
IF %Choice%==Y GOTO Backup
IF %Choice%==y GOTO Backup
SET /P Choice=[Do you want to restore a backup save? (y/n)]
IF %Choice%==Y GOTO Restore
IF %Choice%==y GOTO Restore
GOTO End

REM This copies all files in the backup save directory
REM to the actual save directory and starts Crawl
:Restore
COPY backup\ saves\
ECHO Your save has been restored.
PAUSE
CRAWL.EXE
EXIT

REM This copies all files in the actual save directory
REM to the backup save directory and starts Crawl
:Backup
COPY saves\ backup\
ECHO Your current save has been backed up
PAUSE
CRAWL.EXE
EXIT

REM This simply starts Crawl
:End
ECHO No Save Restored
PAUSE
CRAWL.EXE
EXITIf you don't want it to autoload the program, just add REM in front of the lines with CRAWL.EXE.

[jpublic]

I've tried ToME and Stone Soup, and just can't get into them. I think a major part of it is the different key commands - it just ruins the fun for me.

[Wraitheist]

[QUOTE=jpublic;154027]
Here's a question - how do you guys handle the save game backup issue? Do you have a batch file you run to backup or what?
QUOTE]

I don't. :) I play the game as it was intended...if you die, that's it. New game and character. I've got nothing against others "save scumming", but I honestly think that you're missing out by playing that way. I would have become tired of Angbad a long time ago had I save scummed and finish the game. As it stands, after more than a year of playing, I haven't finished it and I'm more addicted than ever. I've got a Rogue on the next to last level who has a good chance, though!

[jpublic]

I'm just not good enough to not save-scum. My current priest (damnit, I'm going to prove these guys can not suck) has died about 50 times, and he's only level 15. If I didn't save-scum, I don't think I could stand to play the game.

[Wraitheist]

I'm just not good enough to not save-scum. My current priest (damnit, I'm going to prove these guys can not suck) has died about 50 times, and he's only level 15. If I didn't save-scum, I don't think I could stand to play the game.

If that is what you enjoy, then by all means, do it. And I don't think priests suck at all. You just have to get to level 12 or so so that Orb of Draining doesn't fail often. It is one of the best attacks for any character, early on. Later on, they get all kinds of great utility and healing spells. Up until this chraracter, my best have been priests.

Anything particular you need help or info on? I've been playing for a long time and have picked up a lot of useful tips from players better than I.

[jpublic]

1) "Not fail often" for Orb at Level 12?! I was failing 50% at level 15! Heck, I'm 21 now and I still fail 22%, and I have 18 Wis.
2) How do these people get these insanely good equipment by level 35? I'm looking at some of the tombstone archives out there, and there are guys at level 35 with multiple artifacts and equipment I'd kill for.
3) How can I raise my SP? At L21, having only 32 SP is brutal.
4) Is there a good hard/fast rule for what depth I should be at by level?

Actually, for me, the life-changing spell was Protection from Evil. Makes those rooms-of-orcs reaaaaly simple.

[Wraitheist]

1) "Not fail often" for Orb at Level 12?! I was failing 50% at level 15! Heck, I'm 21 now and I still fail 22%, and I have 18 Wis.
2) How do these people get these insanely good equipment by level 35? I'm looking at some of the tombstone archives out there, and there are guys at level 35 with multiple artifacts and equipment I'd kill for.
3) How can I raise my SP? At L21, having only 32 SP is brutal.
4) Is there a good hard/fast rule for what depth I should be at by level?

Actually, for me, the life-changing spell was Protection from Evil. Makes those rooms-of-orcs reaaaaly simple.

Warning, this is going to be REALLY long, lol.

1) It has been a while since I played a priest, so I may have been off by a few levels. You can help your success % a lot by pumping WIS when making your character. Some players pump WIS to 18/50 which helps with failures and max SP. Personally, I like to evenly distribute STR, WIS, and CON.

2) With my current character, I was decked out with artifacts and great equipment at level 35. The trick is to dive quickly, which I'll get to in a moment.

3) SP is always low early on...you aren't doing anything wrong. That is why mages and priests are tougher to play early on. Once you start finding stat potions and cranking up your WIS, you'll have a lot more SP.

4) This is a matter of opinion. It is more about what equipment you have, though, than what level you are. Level is largely unimportant in Anband, and here's why:

Angband, at least in the early levels, is more about avoiding fights than destroying everything in your path. This is an incredibly difficult concept to grasp and stick to. Here is what I do. Let's say I'm playing a Dwarven Priest (a powerful combo). I create my character and put 16 points each into STR, CON, and WIS, bringing them to 17, 18/30, and 18 respectively. The STR is strictly for carrying stuff. WIS is for SP and spell failure, obviously. CON is the most important as you need to be able to take some hits. We are concentrating on survival, not killing power early on.

Depending on your version and option settings, dungeon levels will be listed in depth or level. '50 = 1st dungeon level, '100 = 2nd, etc. The last level of the dungeon would be '5000 or 100th floor.

You should start with some food, torches, the first prayer book, a healing potion, and a weapon. Sell the potion and weapon. Buy a short or longbow and some arrows. You'll also want a Word of Recall, 3+ Scrolls of Phase Door, and 2+ Cure Serious Wounds potions before your 1st real dive. You won't have enough for all of this stuff initially unless you rob one of your stats of a point. Alternatively, go down into the first level or two of the dungeon, gathering gold, un-id'd scrolls and potions. Sell that stuff until you can afford everything I listed.

Once you are ready for your first real dive, you'll want to take every down stairs that you come across. Don't explore each level. Avoid monsters, don't fight them if it can be avoided. The reason for this is that items are often generated out of depth. Items that monsters drop usually aren't. Killing stationary monsters with your bow that are worth a lot of xp can level you quickly, though. Do pick up all potions, scrolls, wands, staves, and rods lying on the floor. Quaff the potions and read the scrolls to id them. None of them are too bad before '1000 or so. Just make sure no monsters are around. Always read scrolls in narrow hallways and on stairs in case it is a summon monster scroll. Wands, staves, and rods are worth a lot of gold, so save these. You can Id most by trying them. Aim rods and wands at monsters from a distance to ID them. Staves you may not want to try as you could get teleported away from the stairs. Remember, stay somewhat near the stairs and don't be afraid to go back up if you are in trouble.

Once your inventory is full of rods, wants, and staves to be sold, go back to town. I wouldn't go much below '900 on your first dive. Back in town, ID and sell the stuff I outlined. Before recalling back to the dungeon, have 5+ cure serious wounds, 10+ phase doors, two Words of Recall, some arrows, and maybe a few ID scrolls. Check the black market and buy teleport or teleport level scrolls if they have them. Buy the next two prayer books if you can afford them. Some detect item scrolls or a staff of detection will help you find items and some scrolls of mapping are very helpful. If you can afford it, enchant a long bow with damage and accuracy scrolls. Eventually you'll want one that is +9,+9. That isn't needed immediately, though.

Back into the dungeon. Now, past '1000 you'll run into monsters that will paralyze you and monsters that are invisible. Many people hover around '1000 until they find some equipment that grants See Invisible and Free Action. You can do that, but it can take a long time to find them both. Personally, I keep diving, even without them. If you know which monsters paralyze, you can usually just avoid them. Dangerous invisible monsters aren't too common place above '2000. If you do decide to go below '1000, bite the bullet and dive to '1800 or so as quickly as possible, using the same strategy of avoiding monsters when possible and picking up free stuff off of the floor. On your way, keep an eye out for rings of See Invisible and Free Action. What you are after now is stat potions. Hover around '1800 and collect as many as you can. Ideally, you'll max your stats here. I usually get bored and, assuming I have lots of STR, CON, and WIS, I'll dive again. If you can get some +speed from equipment before the last dive, things will be easier.

Once you are ready, dive all the way down to '4950. Yep, you read that correctly. This is why you see level 35s decked out with artifacts. Why go to '4950 instead of, say '3000? Because everything below '2000 is very dangerous. The difference is that the lowest depths of the dungeon have incredible loot laying all over the place. '4950 ends up being safer, in a way, because you'll get resists and such more quickly than you will at shallower depths.

Now, that all sounds great on paper. The reality is that you will die A LOT before getting that deep. I still lose a lot of characters in the first hour. If I can get down to '1800, though, chance are good that he'll see the bottom of the dungeon. Now, if I can stop dying careless deaths on '4950, I'll be in good shape. :)

Whew...sorry you asked now, huh?

[Superman's Dead]

Reading that wall of text makes me want to pick it up again.

[jpublic]

Wow. That is absolutely different from the way I play. I more or less clear every level, and I'm at 900' at L23 now.

[Wraitheist]

Here is my current character using the "dive" method I outlined above:

http://angband.oook.cz/ladder-show.php?id=8542&ok

[jpublic]

So, I tried a game (Ranger) using your method. I dinna like it.

I've continued my method, and now that I've hit 1000' I've picked up a lot more nifty items.

So far, on my 2 trips to 1000' I've picked up:
Beaked Axe (Defender) +9/+10 (+4 to Stealth)
Sling of Power (+10/+13)
Small Metal Shield of Resistance (4,+13)
Leather Gloves of Power (+4,+2) (1,+11) (+2)
Leather Boots of Stealth (2,+11) (+1)

I also had some dagger Narthanc which I tossed into my house because it was overrated, and a Quarterstaff of *Slay Demon*.

Edit: ARGH. Unbelievably kick-ass rapier Careth Asdriag, but I'd lose my see invisible. :(
Edit 2: And then I lost it in a death. :/
Edit 3: Woo. Artifact Gauntlets. And ever since I figured out {!r} inscribe on my WoR scrolls, things have been working better. Less accidental town visits. :D

[jpublic]

Since I'm using this thread to tell my adventures:

Level 28.

New Fun Equipment:
Battle Axe of Balli Stonehand +9,+11 [+5] (+3)
-boosts str, con, stealth by 3; resistance to acid/fire/cold/elec; feathfall; regen accel; paralysis resist; see invis;undamageable 2x damage on orcs, trolls, demons
-Great sucessor to that Defender I'd been using.

Iron Helm of Telepathy [5, +9] -was +12, but acid's been eating at it. :(

The Gauntlets 'Paurhach' [3,+14]
-fire resistance; speeds regen;activates for 9d8 firebolt every 8 turns;undamageable

Also picked up the [Purifications and Healing] prayer Book, but that's overrated. Same spells in my standard sets but higher levels and harder to cast. Memorizing stuff out of it because I've got the spare studies.


Discoveries of note:
-Between Protection from Evil and Prayer, I'm death walking. :)
-Telepathy RULES.
-I hate Zephyr Hounds, in all their myriad variations, with a fiery passion not unlike the burning fury of a thousand exploding stars.

[Wraitheist]

Are you character level 28? What depth are you at? And yeah, telepethy is awesome. It is practically essential near the bottom of the dungeon.

On a personal note, I just killed Sauron for the 1st time. Now to take down Morgoth and get my first win ever...

[jpublic]

I'm Level 29 now, and am at level 32 in the dungeon. I could go lower, but I don't dive. I drop-n-clear.

(Here's a good example of the difference in playstyle: You, at L47 have done 800k turns. I at L29 have done 2.2million.)

Hmm. Which would you keep:

Iron Helm 'Holhenneth' [5,+10] (+2)
-+2 to wis, int, search; resist to blind, confuse; indestructiblem;see invis;activate for Detection

OR

Iron Helm of Telepathy?

[Wraitheist]

I'm Level 29 now, and am at level 32 in the dungeon. I could go lower, but I don't dive. I drop-n-clear.

(Here's a good example of the difference in playstyle: You, at L47 have done 800k turns. I at L29 have done 2.2million.)

Hmm. Which would you keep:

Iron Helm 'Holhenneth' [5,+10] (+2)
-+2 to wis, int, search; resist to blind, confuse; indestructiblem;see invis;activate for Detection

OR

Iron Helm of Telepathy?

Hmm...that depends on wether or not you have rBlind, rConfuse, and SI on other equipment. I would probably choose telepathy as long as you have SI elsewhere.

Also, i didn't mean to imply that "not diving" is the wrong way to play. It is simply a preference.

[jpublic]

Actually, it's more reading that site you linked. Those guys are HARSH on people with turn counts in the high millions.

Gratz on beating Sauron. I'm having fun with Beorn the Shapechanger. Can't figure out how to damage him faster than he heals. I need one of those rings of speed.

I decided on dropping Telepathy. Nice, but when I can throw out a detect monsters for 3 Mana, and the artifact helm I'm using now can throw out a full Detection every 50 turns, I'm doing fine.

I *still* hate Zephyr hounds in all their myriad forms. Fire Hounds weren't enough, oh no. Water hounds and their acid, oh joy. Earth Hounds with their freaking GRAZE attacks, what fun. Inertia hounds - gee, just what I need, SLOW attacks. But the fscking icing on the cake are those bloody Nexus Hounds! AARGH. Just what I need, an enemy that randomly teleports me.

[jpublic]

In other thoughts - anyone have a variant they like? I've tried ToME and couldn't get into the Skills-based system of it. I'm trying Zangband now.

Update: I passed. After playing Vanilla v3 it's hard to get into a game based on the 2.x code.

[Superman's Dead]

The skills are such a small part of ToME! You just find which three things you're going to level up all game and then...do. I tried Vanilla after playing ToME for YEARS but just can't get into it. I love the LoTR theme, all of the coded artifacts and sentient weapons and races and classes.

[jpublic]

I need a quickstart guide for ToME. The tutorial is lacking, and I have no idea what's going on.

[Wraitheist]

Try the wiki: http://wiki.t-o-m-e.net/

TOME is a great game. It is a little overwhelming at first, but check out some of the documentation and guides on the wiki and you'll be squared away in no time.

I've tried several variants, but I decided to beat vanilla before spending more time with them. I'm so damn close...

[jpublic]

Tome just bugs me. I've tried it and tried it (and tired it, this is like my 4th time) and it just annoys the crap out of me.

[SilentScreams]

I just tried ToME and kept getting some wierd error every time I killed something or picked up an item.
I tried playing as a Ranger but died very quickly, as all it gave me to fight with was a sling with a few stones. I got killed by something that poisoned me but it was hard to pick out what was actually happening with all the error messages breaking up the combat text.

[jpublic]

What. The. Fuck.

Just fled for my life from the most ridiculous room ever. I made it away at exactly 1HP.

Ancient Red Dragon
Ancient Gold Dragon
Emperor Wight
Master Vampire
Shardstorm
Ooze Elemental
And 2 Ettins


Cripes. The Orb of Draining, she can only do so much!

Edit: And for the record, the Sorceror, whether Dark elf or human, SUCKS ASS.
Edit 2: And Gravity hounds?! Enough already.

[Wraitheist]

That is a nasty room for your depth.

[jpublic]

Well, I'm at 2000' now. I've been hovering around there for the past while. I could probably go deeper, but I'm trying to get my stats and speed up before I do so. I also need some better boots, I'm tired of constantly having to replace/re-enchant mine.

I can't wait for hitting level 35 with my priest - I want those stat and exp restoration spells so freaking bad I can't stand it.

[jpublic]

ARGH. I accidentally nuked my save. Fuck. Oh well, maybe I'll try a mage.