Darkfall anyone?

[spcialk]

It might just be me, but after the last few days of reading about the upcoming eve-like-but-fantasy-mmo darkfall, I am super excited. I started off with a "complete" feature list:

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=43318

and the anti-troll thread here:

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=78786

Anyone have thoughts? Or are beta testing?

[Karak]

I am sure I will check it out but its still not "out" enough for me to know enough about it to get super excited.

[Scaryfaced]

I've been excited about this game for about 4 years now. The last MMO i played with any regularity was Shadowbane and this game seems to be the spiritual successor of sorts. I hope I can still keep interest in an MMO long enough to get back into a game like this.

[Nura]

The thing is, the info about it, is about the same info we had 5 years ago, and supposedly there is a good bunch of people beta'ing it right now, yet noone knows anyone who's beta testing it.

It might turn out to be the greatest game ever made, but the PR for it is the worst PR i've ever seen for any game. They don't tell you anything, and let the fans do all the hyping.

We've gotten a releasedate now, which is something, but i'm still waiting and seeing if it will actully release here in EU the 22 jan.

[spcialk]

The thing is, the info about it, is about the same info we had 5 years ago, and supposedly there is a good bunch of people beta'ing it right now, yet noone knows anyone who's beta testing it.

It might turn out to be the greatest game ever made, but the PR for it is the worst PR i've ever seen for any game. They don't tell you anything, and let the fans do all the hyping.

We've gotten a releasedate now, which is something, but i'm still waiting and seeing if it will actully release here in EU the 22 jan.

I am interested too. Been watching it for 4 years-ish. The beta testing news sounds pretty good, actually. I even have a friend (in another gaming clan/forum/tribe/collective/whatever) who's in it... so it's not toootal vaporware. I might even have to grab a european server when it comes out....even if I AM in the Pacific NW

[SilentScreams]

Sounds like Ultima Online on steroids.
Given the fact that Ultima Online took 4 years of my life in high school, I'm not sure I want this to ever come out.

[Hotcod]

Meh far to hardcore in a lot of ways for me to bother wasting my time on. I know that is appealing to some people but unless it dose utterly amamzing stuff in other ways dealing the the grifing that game is set up to encourage just doesn't seem like it will be fun.

[sparkfizt]

I hate to say it, but I've never seen a small MMO like this ever succeed. Always in the background of the MMO market there's a few games made by small possibly vaporish companies that collect a following. In every case if the game ever makes it to market it's just not that great and is quickly forgotten. The people then look for the next thing on the horizon and latch on.

The amount of secrecy with this game doesnt sit well. If you've created a good product then get it in the hands of public testers and start pumping out gameplay videos.

[Goronmon]

I hate to say it, but I've never seen a small MMO like this ever succeed.EVE Online. As long as the developer/publisher of Darkfall has a business plan that doesn't require it to replace WoW to turn a profit, they should be able to do fine.

And man, I heard about this game a long time ago. Would be awesome if it contained all those features and actually was released at some point.

[Deunnero]

This is supposed to be the next big thing according to my PC loving best friend. For his sake, I hope it is.

[sparkfizt]

EVE Online. As long as the developer/publisher of Darkfall has a business plan that doesn't require it to replace WoW to turn a profit, they should be able to do fine.

And man, I heard about this game a long time ago. Would be awesome if it contained all those features and actually was released at some point.

You do have a point there:P I'd never really heard of eve till probably it's first expansion. I've always been surprised at the games slow steady growth. Really just goes to show if you can do one niche very well then people will play. I just tend to be pessimistic about vapor, been burned too many times.

[Scaryfaced]

Theres over an hour of recently released gameplay videos on youtube, so it isn't a complete media blackout. It just doesn't get much press coverage. The real problem is that the greater MMO community doesnt seem to enjoy what a game like Darkfall is trying to present. Your average MMO player, much like Hot Cod, has little interest in being ganked. I got used to the gank game years ago and it doesnt bother me anymore, but it turns most new comers off. Still, if it's anything like Shadowbane, a small community will become hopelessly addicted and keep everyone entertained for years to come. Even though SB tanked commercial within the first 6 months, the servers were full of active guilds for about 5 years after. I think Darkfall will probably end up in the same catagory.

Personally, I plan on forming a Pirate guild. Sail the seven seas, raid coastal villages, etc etc.

[Goronmon]

Wow, release in Europe in a few weeks? I had no idea it was that far along.

[SilentScreams]

My only problem with games like this is they destroy any incentive to get nice gear. Sure, nice gear makes you harder to kill, but all it takes is a gank or a bit of bad luck and somebody else profits from your hard work.
It's not the dying that bothers me. It's just the thought that some kid too lazy to get the gear himself decides to gank me for it and thinks he earned it.

I'll still play. I loved UO back in the days before Trammell and I think I'll probably end up liking this if it's half as good as the devs would have us believe (although I'm incredibly skeptical).
It encourages playing as a team and only going out hunting with a group of friends.

Wow, release in Europe in a few weeks? I had no idea it was that far along.

Wow, I didn't even look at the release date. I just assumed it was ages away.
Oh well. Good for us.

[Hotcod]

I mean don't get me wrong, i like the IDEA of a world in which people can do what they like... but the simple and sad truth of the matter is that you can see hours of you time go up in smoke beacuse of some punk kid and given that it's the internet it will happen alot. The only game that's managed a balance is EvE but i've never been highlevel or in low sec space but the player run corps tend to give a framework where individual loss can be over seen and covered. This may happen with kingdoms in this game but they have to pitch it just right. Eve is unique in that everything about the game works together perfectly to let the open "do anything" mind set not turn in to a gank fest. I'll no doubt try the game and i'll no doubt get interested if the same balance can be found. I'll so no doubt come to this forum ranging at one point beacuse i got rolled by a drunk.

[Scaryfaced]

As far as I know, Darkfall doesn't have special gear. I admit I stopped paying attention about a year ago, but last I heard, the gear is generic and easy to attain. It wouldnt suprise me if they added a few peices of gear, but if you drop it upon death, it will probably change hands quite often. The real difference between players iare in skills with a bit of twitch gameplay mixed in.

There were quite a few times when playing SB that you'd get everything you were carrying stole from you. In fact, the theif class provided you the ability to steal directly from someone's inventory from stealth. There were many stories of people stealing millions of gold and other valuable assests from people. It's frustrating for sure, but it taught you to be careful with your possesions. The learning curve can be steap, but once you get to know the game, it makes more sense and puts a bit of suspense into your battles. Lets say you find yourself in a fight with someone. With the gear you just picked up on the line, the fight has value beyond bragging rights. It gives otherwise benal encounters some drama. Personally, i think it makes you invest more in your time and attaches actual emotions to a game formula completely devoid of them.

[Hotcod]

well yes, that's fine right up until you realise your playing on the internet against anonymous people a good chuck of whom will derive there soul enjoyment of the game from destroying yours. Eve to some extent circumvents or negates the more annoying outcomes of this kind of behaviour. It's the most successful example i've seen but frankly there's a few things about this game that makes me think it won't do the same.

I think it stems from how eves attitude was all about building a realistic world where players had huge freedom with in the systems to do what they liked. They did not seem to make it pvp beacuse it was "hardcore" but beacuse it made sense and then also tempered it by degrees. You take huge risks by going after the biggest rewards forcing players to team up in to corps leading to a game with politics and economy so complex and player driven that it's an vastly interesting 'live' model of these kind of systems. To the point that people can study it for legitimate research.

Yet darkfall seems to be going the other way. It's using a lot of the same ideas of eve but i can't escape the feeling that they are doing so beacuse they want this to be a "hardcore" mmo. In one of the linked threads one the devs jokingly talks about how the game is to hardcore to waste time on care bares. While i do understand that it was a joke there dose seem to be that attitude running through the stuff i've read about it and from the people who want to play it. They all seem to want a hardcore mmo not beacuse the world and systems they want to create lead and lend them selfs to a hardcore pvp environment but beacuse they are creating a world around the hardcore pvp ideas. It just feels like the wrong way around to give systems that are not amazingly open to grifing and that will only satisfy a very small part of the player base in the long run.

but i'm just going on about nothing. This is a game that seems purely aimed at the hardcore... which i think is a shame, they have some really interesting ideas but they are throwing the baby out with the bathwater beacuse the bathwater isn't hardcore enough.

[Vyzov]

There are a few things I don't like about this. Having all your shit looted when you die? If it's only things in your bag, okay, but if it's everything? That's brutal.

Unlimited people able to loot a corpse at the same time? Just just screams griefing right that.

On the plus side, being able to kill said douchebags right after they do it will be nice, as long as some sort of message lets you know who looted the corpse.

The hardcore PVP sounds very nice.

I don't think Darkfall is going to do well at all. It sounds very uninviting for new people. It is going to push alot of people away.

[SilentScreams]

Yet darkfall seems to be going the other way. It's using a lot of the same ideas of eve but i can't escape the feeling that they are doing so beacuse they want this to be a "hardcore" mmo. In one of the linked threads one the devs jokingly talks about how the game is to hardcore to waste time on care bares. While i do understand that it was a joke there dose seem to be that attitude running through the stuff i've read about it and from the people who want to play it. They all seem to want a hardcore mmo not beacuse the world and systems they want to create lead and lend them selfs to a hardcore pvp environment but beacuse they are creating a world around the hardcore pvp ideas. It just feels like the wrong way around to give systems that are not amazingly open to grifing and that will only satisfy a very small part of the player base in the long run.

This sums up my thoughts on the game pretty well. It's what I would have said if I could be bothered to type it all out.
When reading the dev interviews, I just picture them as the guys from the UO old days who ran around poisoning and ganking everyone they saw and taking pleasure purely from ruining somebody else's experience.

[Scaryfaced]

I largely agree with you guys. The biggest problem with MMOs dedicated to the hardcore crowd is they completely alienate the majority of players, cutting them off from most of the market and appealing to the select few. I've thought about it alot, acutally, and I think the very concept of a hardcore pvp mmo is bound to defeat itself in the end. The very game mechanics seem to discourage most, if not all that play it. As it's happened in the few hardcore MMOs before it, it will most likely result in a select handful of players that praise it like religion and the rest will call it a complete failure. It's the sad fate of all hardcore PVP centric MMOs I'm affraid.

Still, I look forward to giving it a try as this sort of game is right up my alley. To me, the freedom provided is what makes games like this special. In SB, I was apart of a guild that ran itself like the Mob, using extortion and capitolizing on "protection" money. Other guilds limited themselves to fit within the game's lore, often limiting enrollment and inventing their own story to go with their actions. While these games seriously lack limitations, they also provide you with the freedom to make your own fun. The ability to form a guild with a specific purpose in mind other than dungeon raiding, to me, is a huge selling factor.

I'll also say that it's so incredibly satisfying to be able to hold people responsible for the things they say. In most MMO's, people can brag and boast until they're blue in the face without ever being challenged in game. In open pvp games, you can hold people to their words. If someone mouths off to you on the forums, gather an army and rip down that player's city. If they call you a name, hunt them relentlessly in game until they cry unkle. None of that is possible in a game like WoW and I feel it adds alot to the MMO expience.

[Goronmon]

It all comes down to how griefing is encouraged or discouraged. In AC1 on the FFA PvP server, the first rule when starting a character was to run away as fast as you could because there was normally people camping the new character spawn point. Then you have EVE with a large focus on open PvP yet there is still plenty of room for non-PvPers to enjoy themselves.

In the end, I'm glad someone is breaking away from the easy PvE centric MMOs we've been seeing recently. It's amazing to me how little the genre has changed since I started playing AC almost a decade ago. It would be awesome if someone can pull off a game like this.

[sparkfizt]

It all comes down to how griefing is encouraged or discouraged. In AC1 on the FFA PvP server, the first rule when starting a character was to run away as fast as you could because there was normally people camping the new character spawn point. Then you have EVE with a large focus on open PvP yet there is still plenty of room for non-PvPers to enjoy themselves.

In the end, I'm glad someone is breaking away from the easy PvE centric MMOs we've been seeing recently. It's amazing to me how little the genre has changed since I started playing AC almost a decade ago. It would be awesome if someone can pull off a game like this.

I thought eve handled it very well. the very basic core of the game takes place in generally safe space. This gives noobs a chance to get their feet on the ground and understand where the player based danger lies. The real game takes place in FFA PVP, but you're making a decision to do that, so when you get ganked you knew it was risky taking a shortcut through that low security space.

There is a niche of people who want the wide open sorta grief-oriented pvp. If someone could come out with a decent game in that niche it could likely enjoy success similar to eve. Easier said than done though :)

[SilentScreams]

The amount of freedom offered in this game is appealing to me.
There hasn't really been an MMO since Ultima Online where I've felt like I can advance the way I want to.
For example in WoW, you pick a class and there's one way to level up and that's it.

In UO, I created all sorts of characters, some not even based around nessecarily maxing their skills. Like I made a fisherman and spent loads of time just chatting to other fishermen while we worked. I also made a beggar with the idea of RPing and trying to convince other players to part with money through good RP instead of begging NPCs. He was a lot of fun to play and actually made more money than any of my other characters except my Tamer.

I'm not sure "on rails" would be the way to describe most modern MMOs, but they're certainly not as freeform as they could be.

I hope this post makes a bit of sense to you guys...It's 3am and I tend to ramble on when I'm tired.

[Hotcod]

freeform and onrails both have there place and both do different things and are both as enjoyable, for me at lest, depending on mood. The problem with this game is i really like the idea of the freedom it's offering but there going out of there way to make it "hardcore" which is going to take that good and interesting stuff and make me not want to touch it.

[Vyzov]

I'm not sure "on rails" would be the way to describe most modern MMOs, but they're certainly not as freeform as they could be.

Ha, I'm trying to imagine aOn Rails MMO and I'm finding the concept hilarious.

[SilentScreams]

freeform and onrails both have there place and both do different things and are both as enjoyable, for me at lest, depending on mood. The problem with this game is i really like the idea of the freedom it's offering but there going out of there way to make it "hardcore" which is going to take that good and interesting stuff and make me not want to touch it.

Yeah this is my concern too. I can see them eventually relenting and putting in more casual friendly servers, like UO did when it added Trammel.
An MMO at the end of the day lives and dies by it's subscription numbers, and by making it hardcore they are cutting down the number of potential subscribers before it's even launched.

Ha, I'm trying to imagine aOn Rails MMO and I'm finding the concept hilarious.

Heh, yeah. I can just imagine House of the Dead or something with a conga line of players going through the house shooting everything in sight.

[Nura]

So, anyone actully preorder it? And got in to it?

[SilentScreams]

They're apparently not allowing new players in at the moment because they want to get it working right for the ones who have actually managed to get in first.
I've seen rocky MMO launches before, but this beats all of them.

I'm not too bothered though. When I heard about all the stuff they decided to remove with little to no feedback as to why, I pretty much lost interest in the game.