Homebrew questions

[Whimbrel]

First off, is it acceptable to discuss homebrew/ modding on this forum?

I am NOT interested in some kind of piracy advocacy group and I think if there is a forum policy to outlaw discussions of downloading Sega Saturn ROMS that is not only advisable but honorable. But I do want to know if we can discuss things like Moonshell?

I will wait for an official response. If the answer is "No, all mod/homebrew discussions will result in bannings" then please delete this thread and I will not bring it up again.

Thanks

[iHap]

I think talking about homebrew is just fine here I don't see why not. It's not Illegal unless you start talking about trying to copy over the roms.

[OrangePulp]

Best reason to be discussing homebrew: OpenTyrian for PSP (http://www.tehskeen.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24636). If you have a custom firmware PSP, you need to get this. Need.

[pseudopseudo]

I think discussing homebrew should be alright, as long as you keep it legal.

There are some AWESOME homebrew games and apps out there for the DS and PSP that show what some indie developers are capable of.

[Everyone vs Dinosaurs]

What are some good homebrew games, I need some!

[pheriannath]

Homebrew is a dodgy subject, some devs/companies don't mind it, others always see it as piracy.

For now, while we sort relationships/things out, could you hold off? Thanks.

Edit: I've posted a threads for fits and the other mods to review, so I should have clarification on our official stance soon.

[NoName]

Awww, seeing this title made me excited that we could talk about homebrew again.

Then again, I rather the site be on good terms with developers, there are other places this can be discussed.

[Karmakin]

What always kinda weirded me out was that PSP homebrew was considered legit while DS homebrew, not so much.

I dunno why that is. Probably because DS homebrew requires an addon where the PSP can simply be reflashed.

[pheriannath]

We definitely want to remain tight with our developer friends. It's a valid question, and I'm glad someone brought this up early.

Sit tight.

[Xerxes]

We definitely want to remain tight with our developer friends. It's a valid question, and I'm glad someone brought this up early.

Sit tight.

Just to add to discussion y'all maybe having. Look at what Bone (http://www.colonyofgamers.com/cogforums/blog.php?u=59)did with the Homebrew app, DS Colors. I even use it for Japanese study. Most people want a comic reader app. My modded PSP has longer battery life when I back up games I own on a memory stick. I thought this was BS but I swear I was able to play close to an extra hour of Crisis Core(own and ripped) as opposed to Jeanne D'Arc which I haven't ripped(on the last chapter so what's the point).

It's not all bad. It's not all bad. :(

[pheriannath]

Oh, I agree and support homebrew, the problem is if we want to maintain a healthy relationship with developers, we might have to keep a lid on it.

Ya dig? :-\

[frederec]

My modded PSP has longer battery life when I back up games I own on a memory stick. I thought this was BS but I swear I was able to play close to an extra hour of Crisis Core(own and ripped) as opposed to Jeanne D'Arc which I haven't ripped(on the last chapter so what's the point).


You're welcome. My big up the east coast pandora share was kinda fun, even if it did take a long time to finally get it back from the last person.

I'd like to put up my vote for responsible modding/homebrew. I may rip my PSP games to play them, but I buy them all new.

I'm still crossing my fingers that when the Persona 2: Innocent Sin patch gets released that it will run on the PSP (just got my copy off ebay a bit ago, now the ripped iso is waiting for the patch release).

[pseudopseudo]

Oh, I agree and support homebrew, the problem is if we want to maintain a healthy relationship with developers, we might have to keep a lid on it.

Ya dig? :-\

My question is this - what about creating new healthy relationships with indie developers that make homebrew, 'cause they don't have big company backing? :D

[Xerxes]

You're welcome. My big up the east coast pandora share was kinda fun, even if it did take a long time to finally get it back from the last person.

I'd like to put up my vote for responsible modding/homebrew. I may rip my PSP games to play them, but I buy them all new.

I'm still crossing my fingers that when the Persona 2: Innocent Sin patch gets released that it will run on the PSP (just got my copy off ebay a bit ago, now the ripped iso is waiting for the patch release).

Thank you ... How you liking Austin?

[frederec]

Thank you ... How you liking Austin?

Like it better than Houston, the humidity is way more bearable. And I got out just in time to avoid Ike. Hopefully it didn't hit you too hard. I know some people who just got their power back a day or two ago. The only thing I'm not liking at the moment is that my wife has been out of work for over two months.

[Xerxes]

Like it better than Houston, the humidity is way more bearable. And I got out just in time to avoid Ike. Hopefully it didn't hit you too hard. I know some people who just got their power back a day or two ago. The only thing I'm not liking at the moment is that my wife has been out of work for over two months.

Houston scores!!! Sorry about the job thing though. Ike sucked big balls. I was without power for 13 days, but I kept finding ways to charge my PSP and watch Aeon Flux on UMD and take a huge chunk out of Jeanne d'Arc.

[pomeroy]

If we could talk about homebrew, I'll be so glad to NEVER have to try and decipher the other sites.

Seriously, you ask a question and it's all "LOL NUB. U R 2 STUPID TO FUNCTION!!1"

[AgtFox]

Honestly, there are Wikis out there that explain various homebrew stuff pretty well. I'd rather we have strong relationships with developers and publishers than have the door closed on us because of homebrew application discussion.

[Everyone vs Dinosaurs]

Honestly, there are Wikis out there that explain various homebrew stuff pretty well. I'd rather we have strong relationships with developers and publishers than have the door closed on us because of homebrew application discussion.

Would that seriously happen?

[bapenguin]

Would that seriously happen?

We've already had one mention it. There were a lot of developer folks that hung around EvAv.

[Xerxes]

We've already had one mention it. There were a lot of developer folks that hung around EvAv.

That is so lame. Of them. Maybe Bone should remove his DS Colors art. That's homebrew. The Man is getting me down. I understand on y'all part but if it isn't open roms trading how is so wrong. Hell, I and others bought handhelds cause the possibilities are their.

Can we talk about the Pandora (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora_(console)) and the GP2X Wiz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GP2X_Wiz) or will they get made at talks of open source competition.

[pseudopseudo]

Here's what I don't get - why is homebrew (the legal kind) so poo-poo'd by some people?

There are homebrew games out for the PSP that I'm AMAZED haven't been picked up by a publisher. Just because those people aren't officially backed by someone, we can't talk about their work?

[Everyone vs Dinosaurs]

Here's what I don't get - why is homebrew (the legal kind) so poo-poo'd by some people?

There are homebrew games out for the PSP that I'm AMAZED haven't been picked up by a publisher. Just because those people aren't officially backed by someone, we can't talk about their work?



Some people might look at it as being "unfair" or "wrong" because a studio can get publicity, and possibly paying jobs, spawning from homebrew projects, where they use a platform to design a game, and they don't have to pay any kind of licensing fee. I'm pretty sure the way I typed that makes no sense, and I apologize.

[pseudopseudo]

Some people might look at it as being "unfair" or "wrong" because a studio can get publicity, and possibly paying jobs, spawning from homebrew projects, where they use a platform to design a game, and they don't have to pay any kind of licensing fee. I'm pretty sure the way I typed that makes no sense, and I apologize.

Ahh... hadn't even thought of licensing issues. So I guess the question on my mind is "Is there any legal type of homebrew?"

Hmm.

[OrangePulp]

Ahh... hadn't even thought of licensing issues. So I guess the question on my mind is "Is there any legal type of homebrew?"

Hmm.

Somehow I doubt writing homebrew could ever be considered illegal in a court of law. And as for someone getting publicity from homebrew without paying a licensing fee, well, they also don't get any actual money from it, because they're not selling it. So if it turns out to be something really popular, they probably come out worse off for not licensing and selling it.

Honestly, there are Wikis out there that explain various homebrew stuff pretty well. I'd rather we have strong relationships with developers and publishers than have the door closed on us because of homebrew application discussion.

This is exactly why I think banning it is silly. If someone wants to steal games, they're going to find out how one way or another. All it does is make it more annoying for people who want to discuss legitimate homebrew stuff, like making sure everyone with a custom firmware psp has OpenTyrian. Hell, I just found out there's a port of Ultima 7 for PSP; I intend to give it a shot and let people know what it's like.

[Everyone vs Dinosaurs]

So if it turns out to be something really popular, they probably come out worse off for not licensing and selling it.



That is a really good point, I didn't think of it like that.



So I guess ignore what I said ;)

[Bone]

Best reason to be discussing homebrew: OpenTyrian for PSP (http://www.tehskeen.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24636). If you have a custom firmware PSP, you need to get this. Need.I know, I discovered this recently and was blown away. I missed this game when it first came out... it's a great space schmup with upgrades.

[Xerxes]

I know, I discovered this recently and was blown away. I missed this game when it first came out... it's a great space schmup with upgrades.

Shhhh, other developers think it's a bad idea to support these mavericks. They need a legit deal with Sony. :(

[Bone]

Yeah, it does suck Xerxes, but I understand the implications. Nintendo fights homebrew on the legal fronts, whereas Sony fights it by making constant and needless firmware revisions. Nintendo comes off as more aggressive while Sony just silently tries to break homebrew.

I myself would hope to see a careful, hands-off (from the mods) approach to homebrew discussion. We don't need a separate forum, but discussion of legitimately free software like Colors! on the DS supports the innovation of homebrew developers. These are the people who consistently put out some of the best software for the DS and PSP and keep driving the sales of those handhelds even during the driest periods between official game releases.

[Jeffool]

Speaking of homebrew, does anyone here actively develop, or are we just talking using? Because I have a bit of a problem integrating DevKitPro into Visual Studio C++ Express.

[Xerxes]

Yeah, it does suck Xerxes, but I understand the implications. Nintendo fights homebrew on the legal fronts, whereas Sony fights it by making constant and needless firmware revisions. Nintendo comes off as more aggressive while Sony just silently tries to break homebrew.

I myself would hope to see a careful, hands-off (from the mods) approach to homebrew discussion. We don't need a separate forum, but discussion of legitimately free software like Colors! on the DS supports the innovation of homebrew developers. These are the people who consistently put out some of the best software for the DS and PSP and keep driving the sales of those handhelds even during the driest periods between official game releases.

Exactly. If anybody mentions Roms or even emulators, sure shut it done. But it's a lot of good programs and uses of homebrew. I still understand how connections/partners could get upset.

Like I mentioned earlier with Pandora and the GP2X Wiz, I wish Sony or Nintendo could figure out a way to embrace homebrew. Deterring pirating while nursing many of the cool things there devices can do. I know that's hard, but they don't even seem to have entertained the idea. I could see if PSP but there whole library on PSN. Cut out buy the media. That's rough for some who are tied to having physical media, but playing or watching movies off of a memory stick beats UMD. I bet 4GB and 8GB memory sticks are selling like hot cakes. I have 4 on my desk.

[Bone]

Unfortunately even if some of the cooler heads at Nintendo wanted to, I doubt their lawyers would ever let them condone devices that allow you to run homebrew, or else they'd be seen as not defending their intellectual property.

Then again you have things like Action Replay that hack a console to run cheat codes, reverse engineering many consoles and running code on them, and they don't get in trouble. It's a grey area. As for myself, I believe I should be able to use my electronic device however I decide to, as long as I don't steal from Nintendo while doing it.

[Xerxes]

As for myself, I believe I should be able to use my electronic device however I decide to, as long as I don't steal from Nintendo while doing it.

Exactly... Couldn't have said it better.

[ParTime]

While I have the opportunity, I'd just like to mention this: in 2006, I bought a Lite based only on a document that described its hardware specs and a mostly complete register map. Since then, I've bought 2 more Lites and >20 games (some were gifts), and generally pimped the platform on an initial decision that had everything to do with how cool it would be to play around with that hardware. I didn't even know what games were out at the time.

Granted, this is a statistical anomaly; there are few people who are interested in buying consumer electronics based on how funky the hardware is. But if the Nintendos and Sonys of the world keep clamping down on this type of enthusiasm, where is it going to be directed? I'm never the first one to praise Microsoft (linux user since 1997!), but when they rolled out the XNA Creators Club for the 360, they showed they Got It.

That's all I wanted to say. I'm not even active in the homebrew scene anymore, I just like reading about it :D

[Everyone vs Dinosaurs]

That's all I wanted to say. I'm not even active in the homebrew scene anymore, I just like reading about it :D


Did you ever create anything?

[Xerxes]

You know it wouldn't be so bad if they had a itunes like store where all the games had drm. But then it's the case of taking some good with the bad. Pirates will circumvent the system. While homebrew has a supported popular platform to stand on, piracy would be allowed to run rampant.

[ParTime]

Did you ever create anything?

While I was learning the platform, I made a version of Hexxagon (Ataxx played on a hexagonal board) that you could play with another person by sharing the stylus. There was potential for AI and network play that never was reached, but it still came out pretty good as a learning project.

I also ported the DOS game creation system MegaZeux over to the DS, which was an interesting technical challenge (MZX has 8x14 tiles, DS hardware has 8x8; DS hardware scaling isn't high quality enough for an 80x25 screen of those tiles to be legible). Also, some of the larger MZX games wouldn't fit in the DS's 4MB RAM. I ended up writing an axillary memory manager to use extra RAM from an expansion card, which was amusing since the old EMS (XMS?) code was long gone from the modern version of MZX I started with.

I'm particularly happy with getting MZX onto the DS, since that allows hundreds of old MZX games (http://www.digitalmzx.net/) to run on something new!

[Everyone vs Dinosaurs]

While I was learning the platform, I made a version of Hexxagon (Ataxx played on a hexagonal board) that you could play with another person by sharing the stylus. There was potential for AI and network play that never was reached, but it still came out pretty good as a learning project.

I also ported the DOS game creation system MegaZeux over to the DS, which was an interesting technical challenge (MZX has 8x14 tiles, DS hardware has 8x8; DS hardware scaling isn't high quality enough for an 80x25 screen of those tiles to be legible). Also, some of the larger MZX games wouldn't fit in the DS's 4MB RAM. I ended up writing an axillary memory manager to use extra RAM from an expansion card, which was amusing since the old EMS (XMS?) code was long gone from the modern version of MZX I started with.

I'm particularly happy with getting MZX onto the DS, since that allows hundreds of old MZX games (http://www.digitalmzx.net/) to run on something new!


Holy shit, that was so confusing that I don't really remember why I walked into this thread. :eek:

[ParTime]

Holy shit, that was so confusing that I don't really remember why I walked into this thread. :eek:

Heh, I should have prefaced that with "very interesting... to about 3 people in the world" :D